Liverpool FC Forum

Shanks Forever » Fri Jan 02, 2015 8:41 pm wrote:I.just worry about giving our manager cash to spend as he wasted the suarez money.20m for Markovic ( Not worth it), 25m for Llalana (worth about 10m tops), 16m for Balotelli ( Not worth diddly squat). He overpays big time.
I wouldn't give him 1 penny more of lfc cash to squander.

Agree with you. That's why Brendan said this window will be a quiet one. I suspect he is covering up the fact that the owners have refused to fund him after wasting over 200 million on mostly average players over the course of his tenure. And I wouldn't blame the owners if that's the case, why should they give him more money to waste on more borinis, aspases, balotellis, assaidis, lamberts etc etc. If I were fsg, I would force him to make do with his signings and if he fails to qualify for CL, then off you go son.

I've said it before and I'll say it again, fsg were thick in appointing such a young, inexperienced manager who hasn't won anything to take over the hot seat of one of the biggest clubs in the world. Hodgson's CV was better, at least he won some titles in the Scandinavian leagues. Now, I hope they recognise their blunder and after they sack him for failing to secure a CL spot in May, they will look for some one who is a huge upgrade like F.de Boer or even Rafa. My apologies to any Brendan lovers here.

Send all the current transfer commitee members to be shot and no more transfer committee please.

He still plays Joe Allen and Lucas! and he did against Basel when we needed to win that game, he should have started with Markovic and Continho.
Had Rafa been in charge in the summer, he prob would have brought in Diego Costa,  just like Alonso and Torres.
To prepare for Cl footy, Brendan gives us Ricky Lambert, Llalana, Balotelli, Markovic, and Lovren.

Our defence was so.bad last season, it's not been addressed. We've already lost seven!!

Utd got rid of moyes in.less than one season, due to concern over performance, and no pedigree.

Br, how long, and how much cash do we give. After last season, 4th place should be minimum.

No pressure then.

Shanks Forever » Jan 2nd, '15, 20:41 wrote:I.just worry about giving our manager cash to spend as he wasted the suarez money.20m for Markovic ( Not worth it), 25m for Llalana (worth about 10m tops), 16m for Balotelli ( Not worth diddly squat). He overpays big time.
I wouldn't give him 1 penny more of lfc cash to squander.

There isn't any more money available to spend anyway. BR and the rest of the Committee know that they aren't trusted by FSG to spend the money wisely  I expect there to only be a Pre Contract with a GK for the Summer. Unless LFC sell first off course, there won't be anyone coming in Jan.  He needed to have got all the signings spot on last Summer, but wasted it. Quantity over quality + he should be using players from the Academy anyway. Those he brought only have a tiny bit more experience then those in the LFC Academy, he should be making full use of what the Club already has, giving them game time etc, that would have helped them develop and step up. LFC should be doing more of this i.e.e develop and nurture and gradually bring them in by givingthem game time rather then buying quantity over quality.

FSG have invested heavily, funded BR etc for players, funded the redevelopment of Anfield etc etc. They've taken out loans which have to be repaid now, and note, LFC have major debts to pay off.  Remember FFP - LFC are under investigation seeing as the Club having been messing around on this front for some time. Wages are a massive issue with regards FFP.   Even if LFC were to bring in someone on a free transfer, the Club still have to pay the wages.

Kash_Mountain » Sat Jan 03, 2015 7:11 pm wrote:

Shanks Forever » Jan 2nd, '15, 20:41 wrote:I.just worry about giving our manager cash to spend as he wasted the suarez money.20m for Markovic ( Not worth it), 25m for Llalana (worth about 10m tops), 16m for Balotelli ( Not worth diddly squat). He overpays big time.
I wouldn't give him 1 penny more of lfc cash to squander.

There isn't any more money available to spend anyway. BR and the rest of the Committee know that they aren't trusted by FSG to spend the money wisely  I expect there to only be a Pre Contract with a GK for the Summer. Unless LFC sell first off course, there won't be anyone coming in Jan.  He needed to have got all the signings spot on last Summer, but wasted it. Quantity over quality + he should be using players from the Academy anyway. Those he brought only have a tiny bit more experience then those in the LFC Academy, he should be making full use of what the Club already has, giving them game time etc, that would have helped them step up.

FSG have invested heavily, funded BR etc for players, funded the redevelopment of Anfield etc etc. They've taken out loans which have to be repaid now, and note, LFC have major debts to pay off.  Remember FFP - LFC are under investigation seeing as the Club having been messing around on this front for some time. Wages are a massive issue with regards FFP.   Even if LFC were to bring in someone on a free transfer, the Club still have to pay the wages.

Totally agree about bringing players through the academy. Unless we get taken over by a mega rich owner and can compete for the top players, the way forward is to start producing players through the academy and picking up a sprinkling of players from abroad who have the potential to go on and be world class.

I doubt he will get anything in January unless he sells something to pay for it. Its no one's fault but his own and I don't see what the point would be anyway as he won't have the time to work with them either. I said it months ago that if he is to turn this around then it has to be with what he has bought and it would not be unfair to ask this of him.

FFP will more than likely have a say in what we are going to do in the next few windows seeing as we are still under investigation. I couldn't imagine the wage bill being a problem as surely its half of what it was in 09. Look at the players we have signed and where we got them from, No way did we give them massive pay increases. Suarez cost us £22mil from ajax and we were paying him 35k to begin with and he was a higher profile than any of the players that followed. Even balotelli had to agree to a 50% pay-cut to get the move here.

red till i die!! » Jan 4th, '15, 01:54 wrote:I doubt he will get anything in January unless he sells something to pay for it. Its no one's fault but his own and I don't see what the point would be anyway as he won't have the time to work with them either. I said it months ago that if he is to turn this around then it has to be with what he has bought and it would not be unfair to ask this of him.

FFP will more than likely have a say in what we are going to do in the next few windows seeing as we are still under investigation. I couldn't imagine the wage bill being a problem as surely its half of what it was in 09. Look at the players we have signed and where we got them from, No way did we give them massive pay increases. Suarez cost us £22mil from ajax and we were paying him 35k to begin with and he was a higher profile than any of the players that followed. Even balotelli had to agree to a 50% pay-cut to get the move here.

I know what you mean about players (a couple maybe) taking pay cuts etc, but over a number of years the wages have increased and even with players taking cuts, it's still huge and that is one of the major issues with regards FFP and is being investigated. At the end of the day, LFC have massive debts that they can't afford, it can be managed, but it is still debt  that wasn't really expected.   I guess the Owners hadn't realised at the time the high cost of running an EPL football club and the amounts that go into transfers, agent fees etc etc,  though they do now and are getting over this shock and making amends from what I hear. Also, a lot of the debt stems from the Summer spending and stuff before that in previous seasons. Had BR said that he would buy a couple of players and use the assets from the Academy, everyone would have been happy with that, but it was BR I believe that wanted to bring in 7 or 8 players.  He has been seen as a failure with everything to do with the Academy. The bottom line is though, LFC wages to players are massive and really need to be brought down, hence the club can't keep spending, otherwise debt will grow and the club will be in even more trouble with FFP then it already is. As a result of this FFP investigation, the Owners are looking to sell naming rights to the Stands and the Ground to try and at least claw some the vast monies back.

Right now, its sell first then buy, but who'd want to buy the ones the Club want to sell on? from what i've heard, the Club want the same money they paid for Balotelli, which imo isn't going to happen, he is a good player if used right, but his attitude is not great i guess.

Even if there is no more cash to spend, how much has he spent so far since he came? Got to be over 150m. Tot it up.

Mignolet, sakho, Lovren, toure, Markovic, Allen, Lambert, coutinho,sturridge,  Balotelli, Borini,Llalana, moreno,and the others.
How much total spend on that lot.
He's had the cash, and squandered it.

Be careful when giving this guy big money to spend in transfer windows.

We need a good striker in on loan in January to save our season. Send a couple out on.loan.the other way to.balance the wage bill.

Problem with.the youth academy/ reserves etc, is its flooded with foreign players as well.
Where's the local talent, the new Robbie Fowlers??

Go out and hunt around merseyside for the new talent as liverpool is a footy mad city. I bet there are loads of new Gerrard/ Fowlers out there, but they ain't getting the chance as we are filling our youth teams with foreign garbage who will.never make it to the 1st team.
The scouts at the academy need shooting as well, for failing us.

Shanks Forever » Jan 4th, '15, 17:23 wrote:Even if there is no more cash to spend, how much has he spent so far since he came? Got to be over 150m. Tot it up.

Mignolet, sakho, Lovren, toure, Markovic, Allen, Lambert, coutinho,sturridge,  Balotelli, Borini,Llalana, moreno,and the others.
How much total spend on that lot.
He's had the cash, and squandered it.

Be careful when giving this guy big money to spend in transfer windows.

We need a good striker in on loan in January to save our season. Send a couple out on.loan.the other way to.balance the wage bill.

Problem with.the youth academy/ reserves etc, is its flooded with foreign players as well.
Where's the local talent, the new Robbie Fowlers??

Go out and hunt around merseyside for the new talent as liverpool is a footy mad city. I bet there are loads of new Gerrard/ Fowlers out there, but they ain't getting the chance as we are filling our youth teams with foreign garbage who will.never make it to the 1st team.
The scouts at the academy need shooting as well, for failing us.

LFC already have several players out on loan, who else can be loaned out? I don't think the players brought in over the summer will be offered out on loan. LFC won't bring in another striker on loan either cause they already have quite a number of them Lambert, Ballo, Sturridge, Borini, Aspas, Yetsil, Lambert with Origi coming in the summer.  RS and Markovich can play centrally and cover this position as well.

The point is with regards th Academy, it doesn't matter who is there, they still need to get chances of playing, under BR, that won't happen because he doesn't trust them so much. There was no need to splash the cash like a child in the sweet shop (as BR has done). Trust the assets already at the club i.e.the Academy players, otherwise what is the point of having this setup!

Kash_Mountain » Sun Jan 04, 2015 11:52 am wrote:

red till i die!! » Jan 4th, '15, 01:54 wrote:I doubt he will get anything in January unless he sells something to pay for it. Its no one's fault but his own and I don't see what the point would be anyway as he won't have the time to work with them either. I said it months ago that if he is to turn this around then it has to be with what he has bought and it would not be unfair to ask this of him.

FFP will more than likely have a say in what we are going to do in the next few windows seeing as we are still under investigation. I couldn't imagine the wage bill being a problem as surely its half of what it was in 09. Look at the players we have signed and where we got them from, No way did we give them massive pay increases. Suarez cost us £22mil from ajax and we were paying him 35k to begin with and he was a higher profile than any of the players that followed. Even balotelli had to agree to a 50% pay-cut to get the move here.

I know what you mean about players (a couple maybe) taking pay cuts etc, but over a number of years the wages have increased and even with players taking cuts, it's still huge and that is one of the major issues with regards FFP and is being investigated. At the end of the day, LFC have massive debts that they can't afford, it can be managed, but it is still debt  that wasn't really expected.   I guess the Owners hadn't realised at the time the high cost of running an EPL football club and the amounts that go into transfers, agent fees etc etc,  though they do now and are getting over this shock and making amends from what I hear. Also, a lot of the debt stems from the Summer spending and stuff before that in previous seasons. Had BR said that he would buy a couple of players and use the assets from the Academy, everyone would have been happy with that, but it was BR I believe that wanted to bring in 7 or 8 players.  He has been seen as a failure with everything to do with the Academy. The bottom line is though, LFC wages to players are massive and really need to be brought down, hence the club can't keep spending, otherwise debt will grow and the club will be in even more trouble with FFP then it already is. As a result of this FFP investigation, the Owners are looking to sell naming rights to the Stands and the Ground to try and at least claw some the vast monies back.

Right now, its sell first then buy, but who'd want to buy the ones the Club want to sell on? from what i've heard, the Club want the same money they paid for Balotelli, which imo isn't going to happen, he is a good player if used right, but his attitude is not great i guess.

They knew exactly what they were doing when they took over and why they started about changing the contracts that was on offer. Id say 35k is about the norm until they prove they are worthy of going to the next level. very few have shown that improvement.
we got rid of reina who was on 110k and replaced him with mingolet on about 40k, got rid of downing who was on about 80k and got aspas for about 20k. this is the kind of contracts we give out now which is a far cry from the likes of what joe cole, kuyt, maxi, agger etc were earning. we went shopping for kids and players from lower clubs like southampton and swansea because they wouldnt be looking for high wages at entry level.

Rodgers has spent around 240 mil stg on players, on top of that a reported 25 to 30 mil stg on agents fee's and a reported 17 mil on add on's for those players. That is what has us in this mess because the players bought are not worth what we paid never mind making a profit on them. Half are out on loan and running down their contracts which is also running down their value. Borini signed a 5 year deal and we asked for 13 mil last summer, he will have two years remaining this summer and all he has to do is sit it out for another one and we will get squat for him.
when rodgers took over he got rid of carroll at a massive loss, got rid of reina for nothing and followed it up by letting agger go for similar. downing was let go at another massive loss and likewise adam. even 6 million for shelvey was poor considering we paid more to replace him. Gerrard will walk for free along with johnson and suso. Its this kind of stuff that has us in trouble.

FFP is a model they worked off since they bought the club and like any other business will have a budget in the form of an account that allows you to function according to the rules. We have probably maxed that account with the amount players we have bought and we are not taking in enough from departures to break even or turn a profit. Suarez leaving has helped out a good bit seeing as we got a £50 million profit off him but that just vanish's to make up the losses we took on others. The only players bought who could maybe give us another return like that is coutinho and maybe sturridge if he can sort out his injuries but again if we sell those the profits will not be available to reinvest into higher calibre players. If sterling goes then that will be the only way we can have a spending spree like the one we had this year.
The owners can of course avoid any of this by putting their hand in their pocket but that is not something they said they are willing to do, so we had better get used to selling any top player we produce.

Its not just all that though,when i think that we could have got christian erikson for about half a million more than what we paid for alberto, alderweireld for a quarter of what we paid for lovren and alex song for less than what we paid on joe allen.
It is possible to build a very good side living under ffp if you have an eye for a player which is something we don't. That has been our problem all along.

red till i die!! » Jan 4th, '15, 20:31 wrote:

Kash_Mountain » Sun Jan 04, 2015 11:52 am wrote:

red till i die!! » Jan 4th, '15, 01:54 wrote:I doubt he will get anything in January unless he sells something to pay for it. Its no one's fault but his own and I don't see what the point would be anyway as he won't have the time to work with them either. I said it months ago that if he is to turn this around then it has to be with what he has bought and it would not be unfair to ask this of him.

FFP will more than likely have a say in what we are going to do in the next few windows seeing as we are still under investigation. I couldn't imagine the wage bill being a problem as surely its half of what it was in 09. Look at the players we have signed and where we got them from, No way did we give them massive pay increases. Suarez cost us £22mil from ajax and we were paying him 35k to begin with and he was a higher profile than any of the players that followed. Even balotelli had to agree to a 50% pay-cut to get the move here.

I know what you mean about players (a couple maybe) taking pay cuts etc, but over a number of years the wages have increased and even with players taking cuts, it's still huge and that is one of the major issues with regards FFP and is being investigated. At the end of the day, LFC have massive debts that they can't afford, it can be managed, but it is still debt  that wasn't really expected.   I guess the Owners hadn't realised at the time the high cost of running an EPL football club and the amounts that go into transfers, agent fees etc etc,  though they do now and are getting over this shock and making amends from what I hear. Also, a lot of the debt stems from the Summer spending and stuff before that in previous seasons. Had BR said that he would buy a couple of players and use the assets from the Academy, everyone would have been happy with that, but it was BR I believe that wanted to bring in 7 or 8 players.  He has been seen as a failure with everything to do with the Academy. The bottom line is though, LFC wages to players are massive and really need to be brought down, hence the club can't keep spending, otherwise debt will grow and the club will be in even more trouble with FFP then it already is. As a result of this FFP investigation, the Owners are looking to sell naming rights to the Stands and the Ground to try and at least claw some the vast monies back.

Right now, its sell first then buy, but who'd want to buy the ones the Club want to sell on? from what i've heard, the Club want the same money they paid for Balotelli, which imo isn't going to happen, he is a good player if used right, but his attitude is not great i guess.

They knew exactly what they were doing when they took over and why they started about changing the contracts that was on offer. Id say 35k is about the norm until they prove they are worthy of going to the next level. very few have shown that improvement.
we got rid of reina who was on 110k and replaced him with mingolet on about 40k, got rid of downing who was on about 80k and got aspas for about 20k. this is the kind of contracts we give out now which is a far cry from the likes of what joe cole, kuyt, maxi, agger etc were earning. we went shopping for kids and players from lower clubs like southampton and swansea because they wouldnt be looking for high wages at entry level.

Rodgers has spent around 240 mil stg on players, on top of that a reported 25 to 30 mil stg on agents fee's and a reported 17 mil on add on's for those players. That is what has us in this mess because the players bought are not worth what we paid never mind making a profit on them. Half are out on loan and running down their contracts which is also running down their value. Borini signed a 5 year deal and we asked for 13 mil last summer, he will have two years remaining this summer and all he has to do is sit it out for another one and we will get squat for him.
when rodgers took over he got rid of carroll at a massive loss, got rid of reina for nothing and followed it up by letting agger go for similar. downing was let go at another massive loss and likewise adam. even 6 million for shelvey was poor considering we paid more to replace him. Gerrard will walk for free along with johnson and suso. Its this kind of stuff that has us in trouble.

FFP is a model they worked off since they bought the club and like any other business will have a budget in the form of an account that allows you to function according to the rules. We have probably maxed that account with the amount players we have bought and we are not taking in enough from departures to break even or turn a profit. Suarez leaving has helped out a good bit seeing as we got a £50 million profit off him but that just vanish's to make up the losses we took on others. The only players bought who could maybe give us another return like that is coutinho and maybe sturridge if he can sort out his injuries but again if we sell those the profits will not be available to reinvest into higher calibre players. If sterling goes then that will be the only way we can have a spending spree like the one we had this year.
The owners can of course avoid any of this by putting their hand in their pocket but that is not something they said they are willing to do, so we had better get used to selling any top player we produce.

Its not just all that though,when i think that we could have got christian erikson for about half a million more than what we paid for alberto, alderweireld for a quarter of what we paid for lovren and alex song for less than what we paid on joe allen.
It is possible to build a very good side living under ffp if you have an eye for a player which is something we don't. That has been our problem all along.

Definitely, It is a staggering amount of money he has spent. One thing to note about the fee for LS, Barca are paying LFC in installments over approx 3 years. However, BR and the Committee started spending that money even before any cash reached the Club.

Interesting posts here but it seems a lot of speculation about what FFP rules really are, and how they apply to LFC...

I wonder how Rodgers will find new talent after firing the scouts...



Can do much worse that what he has done so far !

killerp » Mon Jan 05, 2015 8:12 am wrote:I wonder how Rodgers will find new talent after firing the scouts...



Can do much worse that what he has done so far !

He can do a lot better too.
Defence a shambles again tonight. Wimbledon, should have had a hatful.
Alan Shearer hitvthe nail on the head, we lost the first and second balls.
Shocking

Shanks Forever » Mon Jan 05, 2015 10:02 pm wrote:

killerp » Mon Jan 05, 2015 8:12 am wrote:I wonder how Rodgers will find new talent after firing the scouts...



Can do much worse that what he has done so far !

He can do a lot better too.
Defence a shambles again tonight. Wimbledon, should have had a hatful.
Alan Shearer hitvthe nail on the head, we lost the first and second balls.
Shocking

EDIT**

Sorry I meant to say "Can't do any worse.." Rodgers can't possibly do any worse...

Although he likes to prove me right   

Let's be honest here, so if I upset a few of you it's tough s.hit. Rodgers hasn't got a clue. My mother who is in her 70,s and follows the reds even knows that. When she heard the line up v Madrid away she done her nut. And when she seen the team for the Basle home tie she turned the telly off!! She said to me why don't we get Rafa back because this fella (Rodgers) is up his own a.rose. I think she's got a point