Liverpool FC Forum

by **Rush Job** » Thu Aug 05, 2010 12:55 am

bigmick wrote:Thing I don't really understand is, how can a country buy a club It sounds a bit like the conservatives buying Grampus Eight or something to me. I'm not saying it's not going to happen or it won't happen, I just can't get my head around the whole concept.

Somebody has already beat me to it no doubt but here goes anyway.
It no different from when DIC were in pole possition, they are the investment arm of the state of Dubai, as you know and its much the same with these guys.

by **aCe'** » Thu Aug 05, 2010 12:59 am

kopite_1232002 wrote:lets not jump the gun lol

by **kopite_1232002** » Thu Aug 05, 2010 1:03 am

you can only dream. i don't want silly money spent i just want to be able to compete, am not greedy

messi
alonso
kun
suaraz
ozil

just for starters only joking i mean it. it would be nice to get 2 20 million pound players in each summer that would do me

by **Rush Job** » Thu Aug 05, 2010 1:05 am

Something needs to be sorted soon because roys transfer plans are up in the air untill it is, we have so far only brought in the players who were already lined up,we have still got big gaps to fill and roy is pritty much in limbo untill ownership is resolved.
Its no use him going out and spending 5 mill on a left back when if he waits a week or two he could go after the very best.
It must be a very frustrating time for him.

by **Reg** » Thu Aug 05, 2010 1:10 am

Financial muscle makes Chinese bid favourite with Liverpool board

Hicks and Gillett are failing to persuade Broughton to pick Syrian offer as details of Huang's backing emerge

Thursday, 5 August 2010

Liverpool's American owners Tom Hicks and George Gillett appeared to be losing their fight to walk away from the club with a profit last night as Gillett's preferred Syrian buy-out bid was widely dismissed as lacking credibility and the rival Chinese move for the club was revealed to be backed by the state-owned Chinese Investment Corporation (CIC) which has $332bn (£209bn) of assets under management.

In a day of dramatic scrambling for the ownership of Liverpool, which coincided with manager Roy Hodgson confirming he is ready to make an £8m bid to bring Juventus' defensive midfielder Christian Poulsen to Anfield as a likely replacement for Javier Mascherano, representatives of Yahya Kirdi, a former Syria international now fronting one bid, insisted that a price has been agreed and a formal purchase agreement "is in the final stage of negotiation".

But the Kirdi camp could not explain to The Independent last night where their money comes from, and this newspaper also understands that CIC is behind the rival Chinese move for the club, led by businessman Kenny Huang, which appears to remove one of the key uncertainties. None of the prospective owners have presented proof of their claimed backing, but provision of such details is due to begin next week, at which point the CIC involvement may be crucial.

CIC, formed in 2007 as a way of investing Chinese currency reserves, ploughed €800m (£665m) into one of the funds operated by the Apax Partners private equity company earlier this year, though a move for Liverpool would be something completely different to its previous activities.

Though questions remain about Huang – claims that he bid for a stake in the Cleveland Cavaliers basketball team in the United States have been denied by the National Basketball Association – the precise source of the sovereign wealth which his representatives assert is behind him has not been divulged until now.

Gillett is desperate to fend off Huang's bid as the money would be used to buy the club's £237m debt from the banks and to invest in the club. None of the funds would go to Gillett or his co-owner Hicks, leaving them with nothing from their initial personal investment of £130m. The suspicion remains that Gillett is touting Kirdi as a stalling device to prevent a Chinese takeover at the end of the month.

Liverpool's non-executive chairman, Martin Broughton, of Barclays Capital (BarCap), was recruited by Hicks and Gillett to find a buyer for the club but is aware that if he arranges a sale to buyers who make a mess of the club's future his reputation will be damaged. Broughton has suggested that there are several bids to weigh up before preferred bidder status is granted, preferably before the transfer window closes, though as of last night the Huang bid and that of the New York based Rhône Group – who have re-entered the picture, four months after their £100m bid for a share of the club proved fruitless – were the only the main contenders.

Despite reports to the contrary, a source close to the process said a bid from the Kuwaiti Al-Kharafi family looks unlikely to succeed despite them having re-entered the picture recently.

Having made his part in the scramble for the club clear – perhaps to make sure that Hicks and Gillett can not manoeuvre him out of the picture behind the scenes as they did Rhône Group back in March – Huang has decided, or been asked, to move back into the shadows as his offer to buy out the club's £237m debt from the Royal Bank of Scotland is now considered. To that end, Huang has clarified that his negotiation is ongoing and stipulated that only his PR agents, the Hong Kong office of Hill and Knowlton, are authorised to speak for him. But the public job of pressing Liverpool to accept his bid by his deadline of tomorrow week, apparently in time for Hodgson to get his hands on Chinese funds to spend on transfers, has been well and truly done.

Though Broughton and BarCap have given Gillett clearance to pursue discussions with Kirdi, claims from the Syrian's representatives yesterday that an agreement on purchase price has been reached, which would pay off the club's debt and build the new stadium critical to their financial future, were met with bemusement by those close to the investment process.

Two sources in the financial community have suggested that the size of Kirdi's offer far outweighs Haung's, though with the source of his funds so unclear the fear is that he, like Gillett and Hicks, may be planning to borrow for leveraged buy-out which would leave the club's future as uncertain as ever.

Of the uncertain financial future, Hodgson would say only that it is better that the Americans be gone soon. "I don't want to go down the ownership route because I don't know enough about it," he said. "Unfortunately the owners we have are very unpopular with the fans. They know it. That is why they are prepared to sell the club."

The Chinese investment fund behind Huang's bid

* Established in Beijing in September 2007, the China Investment Corporation (CIC) is a $300bn (£190bn) sovereign wealth fund.

* Modelled on a similar fund in Singapore, It was originally established to utilise China's foreign exchange reserves for the benefit of the state and to mitigate risks in the country's huge foreign exchange reserves.

* The fund comprises of two halves: an operation which makes global investments, and China Huijin Investment Ltd, which invests in domestic state-owned financial institutions on the government's behalf. Reserves are mainly held in low-risk, low-yielding instruments such as US Treasury bonds, but the global recession has led CIC to attempt to diversify to improve returns.

* CIC recorded an 11.7 per cent return on their £37bn overseas investments last year, reversing a decline from the previous 12 months when investments fell 2.1 per cent as an indirect result of the global financial situation. Net profit totalled $41.66bn (£26.2bn) last year, almost doubling the $23.1bn (£14.6bn) from 2008. Nearly 44 per cent of the fund's equity investments were in North America, with 28.4 per cent in the Asia-Pacific region and 20.5 per cent in Europe.

* At the end of last year, the fund held shares in dozens of US-listed companies, including Coca-Cola, Morgan Stanley, Citigroup and private equity giant Blackstone, while also having equity holdings in US-listed firms included shares in Motorola among others.

Link

++++

Get those yankee shysters out !

by **red till i die!!** » Thu Aug 05, 2010 1:49 am

heres the piece from tomorrows times.
helen power and tony evans
THE Chinese Government is the mystery backer behind a bid for Liverpool Football Club.

China's overseas investment arm China Investment Corporation (CIC), which already owns a stake in Canary Wharf, is funding the bid fronted by the sports tycoon Kenny Huang for one of Britain's biggest sporting names.

The debt-laden club is expected to change hands this month and last night the Chinese appeared to be in pole position to win a three-way takeover battle. The other bidders are a wealthy Kuwaiti family and an American private equity group.

Liverpool's lender, the Royal Bank of Scotland, forced the club's unpopular American owners, Tom Hicks and George Gillett, to put it up for sale in April. A number of potential foreign buyers have been circling, but until now the role of the Communist Government was unknown.
The acquisition would be just a tiny piece of China's vast global investment plan. CIC was created in 2007 to invest billions of dollars for the benefit of the State. The country has been able to stockpile nearly $2 trillion of foreign currency reserves because it exports many more billions of pounds of goods and services than it imports. CIC has $332 billion to spend abroad.

The fund already has stakes in natural resources and energy companies in Asia, the US and Africa as part of China's long-term strategy of securing its energy supplies. Liverpool would be its first football club and a high-profile entry into British cultural life.

Both CIC and Mr Huang were unavailable for comment last night, but insiders said that CIC would end up owning the majority of the club if the consortium's planned bid - which values Liverpool at between £300 million ($A520 million) and £350 million - is successful
.
China is not the first foreign country to covet English Premier League teams. Arsenal, Aston Villa, Birmingham, Chelsea, Liverpool, Manchester United, Manchester City and Sunderland are all in foreign hands.

Manchester City, which is owned by Sheikh Mansour bin Zayed al-Nahyan, a senior member of the Royal Family in Abu Dhabi, and Chelsea, owned by the Russian oligarch Roman Abramovich, were bought as trophy assets. The owners have poured in money without seeking a profit.

It is believed that the Chinese would expect to make money by building a bigger stadium in Merseyside and developing the club's Asian fan base.

Liverpool already has a sponsorship deal with the bank Standard Chartered, which focuses on Asia. Presenting the bank's half-year results yesterday, Peter Sands, its chief executive, said that its sponsorship of Liverpool was the most cost-effective way of getting Standard Chartered's name on to television screens across Asia.

The sale is being run by Barcap, Barclays' investment banking arm, and Martin Broughton, chairman of British Airways, who was brought in as temporary chairman of the club in April.

Insiders said that it was a three-way contest between the Chinese, Rhone Capital, a private equity group, and the billionare al-Kharafi family of Kuwait.

Any buyer must be cleared by the Premier League, which has held talks with the bidders. The main test is financial and it is unlikely that a bid would be blocked from the cash-rich Chinese.

Mr Huang reiterated his interest in Liverpool through his PR firm Hill & Knowlton yesterday but said that he had yet to make a formal binding bid.

by **zarababe** » Thu Aug 05, 2010 1:59 am

China fund raises finance to match Liverpool asking price

• China Investment Fund sold shares worth £351.4m
• Sum is equivalent to Anfield club's debt

The Chinese government fund represented by Kenny Huang has spent the past fortnight raising precisely the amount of cash required to finance a bid for Liverpool. Sources have confirmed to Digger that the China Investment Corporation, the sovereign wealth fund to the world's most populous nation, is the organisation being fronted by Huang, who yesterday admitted interest in bidding for Liverpool.

In a series of trades since 19 July, CIC has sold $558m of shares in Morgan Stanley, equating to £351.4m. That sum is equivalent to Liverpool's debt to the nearest decimal place, and is exactly the number insiders say has been quoted to interested parties as the sale price.

China Daily, the English-language arm of the Chinese state media, reported yesterday: "China Investment Corp, the Chinese sovereign wealth fund that bought a 9.9% stake in Morgan Stanley in 2007, sold $90.5m of shares in the investment bank on 30 July, bringing the total amount divested in the last two weeks to about $558m."

Although sovereign wealth funds have enormous values of assets under management, cash is generally tied up in equity and bond markets. This requires liquidation by share sales before major new investments can be made. It is therefore hugely significant that the £351.4m number is also equivalent to Liverpool's debt, suggesting that CIC is shifting its assets ahead of an offer for the five-times European Cup winners.

It also indicates that despite the ambitions of the Anfield club's chairman, Martin Broughton, to generate a return for Tom Hicks and George Gillett, China is refusing to reward them for their three-and-a half-year ownership of the club. The Americans' capacity to dictate terms is further reduced by the fact that there are few other credible bidders preparing to compete with Huang and CIC.

Even those involved in the sale process have dismissed the announcement yesterday from Yahya Kirdi, the former Syrian footballer with business links in Canada, of his intention to compete with Huang for Liverpool. Kirdi has previously talked of his interest but is said not to have meaningfully pursued it, but his interest could raise the price that current owners are looking for. The Rhone Group has also re-emerged as a possible interested party. But although it is regarded as being financially capable of mounting a bid, the private equity firm has come to the table before, having looked at a minority-stake investment in March. But it did not go through with the deal.

Huang confirmed for the first time yesterday he had contacted Liverpool's brokers in the sale – who together are Broughton and Barclays's investment-banking division, Barcap – to "register interest". He did state he "has made no formal bid", however CIC's cash-raising exercise demonstrates it is in a position to make an approach at any time.

In that event the red half of Merseyside might be concerned about the impact of direct investment from the Chinese government in their club. But in anticipation of negative reaction to its world-wide investment activities, CIC's website states: "CIC strives to contribute to the prosperity and development of local economies.

It adds: "CIC usually does not seek an active role in the companies in which it invests nor attempts to influence those companies' operations. CIC seeks long-term, stable, sustainable, and risk-adjusted return."

Although the message of prudence, at a time when CIC's dumping of £531.4m of Morgan Stanley shares has conspicuously not generated any money for transfer activity, might dishearten fans, it should not be interpreted as a lack of team investment. CIC would be purchasing a debt-free club and would be capable of taking out smaller, more affordable loans to finance team strengthening this summer.

And after the years of chaos associated with the unsustainable debt run up under Hicks and Gillett, that would no doubt be a welcome relief to Liverpool fans, as will the fact CIC is happy with Roy Hodgson being the manager.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport....ip-fund

by **Zidane** » Thu Aug 05, 2010 2:17 am

I hope this goes through. :\

by **maguskwt** » Thu Aug 05, 2010 2:41 am

I don't know what to think... It's Essentially LFC becoming a tiny asset of the Chinese government. Who will be the board and who will be the chairman? It seems highly impersonal. I don't know if it's a good thing or not... I'm probably one of the few but so far I'm not too pleased...I'd prefer a personal owner who really takes care of the club...

by **JoeTerp** » Thu Aug 05, 2010 3:10 am

I wish Mark Cuban was buying Liverpool and not one of the other sports team that Hicks screwed up.

by **ruskiy playmaker** » Thu Aug 05, 2010 3:45 am

Damn China owning Liverpool fc? What is the world coming to?

by **Trewyn** » Thu Aug 05, 2010 4:27 am

You brits shouldn't be worried about china taking over and imposing their ideologies etc etc. Because in almost all of china's investments around the world, they don't care 2 hoots about how you run your country, dictator or not, as long as they get what they want, usually profits or resources. This is evident in their investments in african countries.

So for Liverpool's case, probably as long as they win things and earn money... which they will with the china market opened for them, Liverpool can stick to their time honoured traditions, pick a good fan-approved CEO all with no dramas

... I hope... *crosses fingers*

Of course everything has its pros and cons but in this case, the pros far outweigh any cons.
I'll put it simply, if just 0.5% of China's population buys a Liverpool jersey and our club makes a profit of £10/jersey, that will mean a roughly £50-million profit every season! :laugh:

Why do you think Manure bought that china player called dongfang something and didn't even play him in any of their senior games. And by the way this silly tactic worked. Manure has a substantial fanbase in china

I've seen more Manure jerseys in china than Liverpool ones :angry:

by **devaney** » Thu Aug 05, 2010 7:12 am

roberto green wrote:possible signings on the short list if they get in

Lionel Messi £130m Euros
Xabi £80m Euros
Iniesta £80m Euros
David Villa £100m Euros

and the rest of the barca team for 100m

by the way Gerrard and Torres make the bench just

As I said Reg it is up there with Emmerdale and Corrie! I remember fantasises of this nature being eluded to when G & H took control. Surely we all know better by now that dreaming is no longer an option.

by **devaney** » Thu Aug 05, 2010 7:23 am

red till i die!! wrote:
Ciggy wrote:In other news........The Rangers bankrupcy will be sorted out once and for all tommorrow.

How does an owner drive a perfectly good baseball team in one of the largest markets in the United States into bankruptcy? Ask Tom Hicks. The Texas Rangers had a beautiful ballpark and a solid fan base when Hicks bought the team in 1998. The Rangers were a competitive ball club that started regularly making the playoffs in the 90’s. Hicks took a burgeoning young ball club and drove it into bankruptcy in just 10 years.

In 2000, Hicks signed Alex Rodriguez to the largest contract in baseball history at 10 years, $252 million dollars. There were no other suitors offering even $200 million for A-Rod’s services. How could Hicks offer such a large contract to one player? The answer is debt. Tom Hicks is a perfect example of the misuse of leverage. He has a track record of buying perfectly healthy companies and loading them up with debt. He then takes the cash out of the debt ridden business and buys another one.

Hicks currently owns the Texas Rangers, Dallas Stars, and the Liverpool Football Group. The Texas Rangers are the 1st major league baseball team to go into bankruptcy in 17 years. The Dallas Stars are so debt laden that Hicks is being forced to sell the team by creditors. Hicks saddled the Stars with $600 million in debt. Now Hicks and partner George Gillett are trying to sell the Liverpool Football Club after loading the franchise up with nearly half a billion dollars in debt..

It goes to show that it doesn’t matter how much money you have; too much debt can be the downfall of anyone.

apparently not with hicks.
looked at the forbes rich list and that knob jockey has $1.4billion.
i really hope he does'nt climb any further up that list with any profit off the clubs back.

on a lighter note,wow!! silvio berlusconi is almost 5 times richer than donald trump .
the amount of crooks and 's on that list is shocking.

We criticise these two sh.its for their disgraceful behaviour and understandably so, but who is really to blame? Gillette would certainly have been aware of the way that Hicks operated prior to jumping into a financial bed with him at LFC. Moores surely must have access to the internet which highlighted the misgivings of Hicks at the time of the takeover. Moores chose to accept an additional £8m and blame everybody else for his naivety. Hopefully Broughton will do a better job than Parry before he walks away with his massive bonus cheque!

by **fivecups** » Thu Aug 05, 2010 7:41 am

Front page of the Times today.

SSN also reporting Ambami back in. There's going to be a bit more politicking before this is settled I'll wager (and with the shift in world economic powers, and the potential involvement of the Chinese government there will be a political element to this).

I think it's fairly clear that the Chinese group will not be sugar daddies and I agree with those who said they wouldn't want that. I know a few Chelsea supporters and will they've enjoyed the success it's always been tainted by the knowledge they bought the league.

What most of us want are long-term owners who want to make long-term profit via a stable, sustainable successful business. We have to trust Martin Broughton to pick the best from this bunch of businessmen. It could turn out that the Chinese are the best. What is clear though is they are an investment group that will expect a return on their initial input, not sugar daddies. It's also clear that Liverpool are felt to have value, probably through tapping into the massive Asian market.

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