Liverpool FC Forum

by **parchpea** » Sat May 22, 2010 2:49 pm

Positive or negative what we have here is just passion for the football club and the game. Its the mix of views and how people express themselves that makes the game great and this forum is just a snapshot of that. Its all very normal. You can sit in a football ground, sit in bar, and see fans falling out amongst themselves and about their own team and next minute jumping on each other when a goal goes in. You go though it all, the high, the low, the fallouts, but bottom line is we all just want the best for the club.

by **SeaofRed** » Sat May 22, 2010 4:51 pm

parchpea wrote:Positive or negative what we have here is just passion for the football club and the game. Its the mix of views and how people express themselves that makes the game great and this forum is just a snapshot of that. Its all very normal. You can sit in a football ground, sit in bar, and see fans falling out amongst themselves and about their own team and next minute jumping on each other when a goal goes in. You go though it all, the high, the low, the fallouts, but bottom line is we all just want the best for the club.

I agree, but people who say Rafa has been backed by the Hicks&Gillett are lying or misinformed. He doesn't even have a transfer budget with them, they have said or reportedly said they do not trust him to spend their money wisely, hardly support is it? They haven't invested a single penny of their own wealth into the club. It has all been borrowed, but that's for another debate.

Rafa has to operate a sell-to-buy transfer policy the likes of which Fulham and West Ham have to do and yet supporters expect us to be challenging for major honours on such a draconian and failed method? It's insane and further more people expect us to be signing the likes of Wesley Sneijder and other top players when our rivals are spending anywhere from £15m - £30m a pop on one single player. I'm not absolving Rafa from accountability, he needs to be more positive this season in his tactics and formations, he needs to learn to change and adapt depending on the situation and if he cannot manage to do this then he'll struggle to repair his tarnished reputation as a fantastic manager. Of course signings like Aquilani (no matter his ability) for £20m and average wonders like Robbie Keane has to stop, if he is able to build a strong squad that is capable of qualifying for a CL place and a squad that is capable of silverware.

I'm delighted Rafa is staying, in this endless storm we need an ounce of stability and Rafa provides that much needed stability, but I hold no ambitions of us signing any major players this summer and I do not expect us to be challenging for top spot in the league or the Champions League.

The main problem at this club isn't Rafa, this is not the case of Gerard Houllier where the man had the support of the board, but was too stubborn to change and I am confident this will not be the case of Rafa next season. Give him the backing the likes of Ferguson, Wenger, Ancelotti, Mancini and Redknapp has and he'll get us back on top where we belong, but as long as the Americans are here, Rafa will constantly be undermined and as a result we'll suffer more of the same.

by **tonyeh** » Sat May 22, 2010 4:56 pm

parchpea wrote:Positive or negative what we have here is just passion for the football club and the game. Its the mix of views and how people express themselves that makes the game great and this forum is just a snapshot of that. Its all very normal. You can sit in a football ground, sit in bar, and see fans falling out amongst themselves and about their own team and next minute jumping on each other when a goal goes in. You go though it all, the high, the low, the fallouts, but bottom line is we all just want the best for the club.

by **shabelle50** » Sat May 22, 2010 4:57 pm

I don't think he or any manager should be vilified but at the end of the day he's made a lot of mistakes, mostly between 04-spring 07, which has meant that overall the team is no better than it was in 2004 and is also the reason he's had little to spend in the last year. If his spending between 04-07 had been better targeted and utilised in terms of quality rather than quantity and on the wrong players we'd have a squad now closer to United and Chelski's and would therefore need little strengthening. After all how much have United and Chelski spend in the last couple of summers? Not as much as before because they haven't needed to. Benitez through his naivety tactically and lack of knowledge on the premiership when he arrived underestimated the job in 2004 and clearly believe that the likes of Gonzalez, Nunez, Morientes, Josemi and some others would settle without too much difficulty. The squad is now paying the price of his mistakes.

by **SeaofRed** » Sat May 22, 2010 5:20 pm

shabelle50 wrote:I don't think he or any manager should be vilified but at the end of the day he's made a lot of mistakes, mostly between 04-spring 07, which has meant that overall the team is no better than it was in 2004 and is also the reason he's had little to spend in the last year. If his spending between 04-07 had been better targeted and utilised in terms of quality rather than quantity and on the wrong players we'd have a squad now closer to United and Chelski's and would therefore need little strengthening. After all how much have United and Chelski spend in the last couple of summers? Not as much as before because they haven't needed to. Benitez through his naivety tactically and lack of knowledge on the premiership when he arrived underestimated the job in 2004 and clearly believe that the likes of Gonzalez, Nunez, Morientes, Josemi and some others would settle without too much difficulty. The squad is now paying the price of his mistakes.

Yet this is the man who received immesurable flak for signing Peter Crouch for £7m, yet he proved to be an excellent signing and it is ashame Peter Crouch wasn't paired alongside Fernando Torres.

Rafa has signed top quality like Pepe Reina who by statistics is probably the best keeper in the club's history. He improved Gerrard and Carragher's game immesurably. He bought in Skrtel, Agger, Torres, Mascherano, Glen Johnson, Aurelio (who when is match fit is an excellent player) and many more...

He has also gotten us to two CL finals, a FA cup and League cup final and runners up in the CL League.

Rafa's major mistakes came last summer when he sold Arbeloa, Hyypia and Alonso and failed to replace them with players who operated in the same way, Johnson is great going forward, but he's not as sound as Arbeloa at the back. We missed Hyypia's experience which is invaluable and unfortunately Aquilani is a bit of a sick note, so we suffered last season. But I wouldn't say Rafa has made too many bad mistakes in his time here. His record speaks for itself.

by **shabelle50** » Sat May 22, 2010 5:40 pm

He's done well in the transfer market since the spring of 2007 (Keane and Dossena being the exceptions) but if his buys in the two and a half years before that had been on the same level the squad would be that much closer now to the top three at the end of last season.

by **SeaofRed** » Sat May 22, 2010 6:32 pm

shabelle50 wrote:He's done well in the transfer market since the spring of 2007 (Keane and Dossena being the exceptions) but if his buys in the two and a half years before that had been on the same level the squad would be that much closer now to the top three at the end of last season.

I'd say Benitez has been decent in the market since his arrival and I wouldn't say signing Glen Johnson for £17m and a sicknote like Aquilani for £20m is anything to write home about, not when he signed Alonso for £10m and Agger for £6m, it just goes to show how out of control the transfer market is getting with teams like Manchester City snapping up players for £20-£30m a piece.

by **Greavesie** » Sat May 22, 2010 6:33 pm

Jaysus SeaofRed is far too balanced for this place

welcome aborad btw!

by **kazza** » Sat May 22, 2010 6:58 pm

Greavesie wrote:Jaysus SeaofRed is far too balanced for this place

welcome aborad btw!

What he said

by **ICE-MAN** » Sat May 22, 2010 7:42 pm

Im not slating everything he says, but he is in no way inspirational!!

Should come out and acknowledge that the season gone by was a very poor one, were gonna do our best in the summer, learn from our mistakes and hit the ground running at the start of next season with everyone in the squad all extremely eager to work their balls off to put things right!

Instead its the usual stuf - gonna be difficult to buy players cos of the world cup, my players are tired after the world cup, theres too many games in the football calandar and something needs to be done, we've lost our first 4 games of the season but its cos our players havent had a proper preseason but we showed 'Character'!!!!

Rafa can sick his character up his a*se!!! Hes had enough time, the owners can be blamed for a lot of it, but in my opinion its 50% rafas fault and 50% the yanks!!!

Rafa needs to change - better man management skills, no more negative tactics, have more than just plan A, more ruthless in going for the jugular of teams!!!

Like hes whinging bout the market, sell a few fringe players and bring in Henry, Joe Cole and Martin Petrov!! 3 players available on free transfers and three excellent attacking players that would worry the opposition! Selling Riera for about £6-8m would cover a huge chunk of those three players wages!!!

by **Greavesie** » Sat May 22, 2010 7:47 pm

Should come out and acknowledge that the season gone by was a very poor one, were gonna do our best in the summer, learn from our mistakes and hit the ground running at the start of next season with everyone in the squad all extremely eager to work their balls off to put things right!

I can hear it now if he did say this

'and that's your fault Rafa you fat Spanish t!t, I wouldnt trust him with any money, the players have no faith' blah blah blah moan moan moan

by **LiverpoolMadman** » Sat May 22, 2010 7:51 pm

I think Rafa will Leave Liverpool but he's waiting for the good time ... There are 3 jobs avaible for him , 1 is Juve but he have lost that job , now there are 2 jobs Inter Milan and RM ... It's all depend after the CL Final ... where Jose wants to be at next season ... RM or Inter Milan ..

by **ICE-MAN** » Sat May 22, 2010 8:42 pm

I would prob have a heart attack rather than start whinging if he for once came out and was defiant! U must have some level of tolerance if you can put up with the constant excuses!!! I wouldnt mind but the excuses are always the same 3 or 4 excuses!!!

Tiredness, lack of money, tried but showed good character, injuries!!!!!!! Its the same old story! Dont get me wrong i would love nothing more than to be proven wrong and id hold my hand up and admit it, but its just gonna be more of the same next season im afraid!!!

by **shabelle50** » Sat May 22, 2010 8:45 pm

It could go either way he could leave in the summer or by Christmas or he could turn it all around long term. My guess is though that his days at Anfield are numbered. Another difficult summer in the transfer market coupled with a bad start next season I think he'll walk before Christmas. I get the feeling that since the Americans arrived Benitez has always his departure to be on his terms and I think that if he does leave in the next few months he'll have he'll have a few things to say about what's been going on.

by **SeaofRed** » Sat May 22, 2010 11:34 pm

ICE-MAN wrote:its just gonna be more of the same next season im afraid!!!

Of course nothing will change, Rafa will be expected to sign everyone who has had a half decent World Cup (nevermind the fact he hasn't got a transfer budget), we'll be expected to challenge and win the Premiership, because every season is "our season" according to fans who forget that Rafa has no transfer budget. We'll be expected to win the League Cup, FA Cup and Europa League because we need some silverware and haven't managed to win a trophy since 2006, lets not forget that Man City haven't won a trophy in over thirty years.

Rafa will try his best to manage the club in the best way he can, but I suspect players like Torres and Gerrard will stand around sulking on the pitch instead of getting to grips with what needs doing. Lucas, Kuyt and Babel will still get slated, even if they put in a 10/10 performance. So, yes, I fully expect next season to be the same as this season, where fans who are frustrated that instant success hasn't been delivered will resort to throwing their toys out of the pram - while begging for Guus Hiddink & Jose Mourinho to come to our club, conveniently forgetting that there is no transfer budget.

Next season will be the same as this season and the same as every season. Wishy, washy fans who will only support the manager through the good times and will turn their backs on him in the bad times. Goodness knows what sort of reception Bill Shankly would be getting from supporters like you, when he went six years without winning the league title.

Good things come to those wait, sure it's been twenty years, but give Rafa the same backing that his rivals have had and I guarantee that dusty trophy cabinet of ours will start filling up pretty sharpish.

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