Liverpool FC Forum

teamleader1 wrote:

J*o*n*D*o*e wrote:

Ben Patrick wrote:After coming 2nd last season i think its fair to say i was optimistic mate.
But its not just the fact that this season has been so bad. Its the fact that i think it could have been avoided.
We havent been bad this season, at times we have been an embarrasment.
And it doesnt matter now where we came last season.
The fact is we are going to come 7th this season and were humiliated in the cups meaning we have now gone a long time without a trophy.

A change of manager is essential.

The only thing essential at LFC at the moment is getting rid of the owners, no other issue comes close, like Igor has stated many time what happens to Rafa will be sorted once the season ends, the future of the club is at stake every second these two remain.

True
But lets not forget that Rafa cant be allowed to slip under the radar
Hes every bit as guilty of mismanaging the club as them pair of ******
Plus the club might take another year to sell on, would you really want to gamble on Rafa for another season?

maguskwt wrote:How many negative articles are you gonna post on here  s@int? 

we get your stance and everything and I don't mean any offence... but trying to keep drilling all the negative press/ negativity at every single opportunity is IMO a bad symptom of this forum nowadays... this is exactly like how dictator slogans work...

I think I'm gonna migrate to RAWK...that show of support for the manager thread was a breath of fresh air for us suffocating from all the negative bile on here... 

Negative ? I thought it was a little too positive 

Make sure you have learned your mantra first mate, or you may be back sooner than you thought

s@int wrote:How Rafa Benitez's Liverpool FC reign went wrong
May 6 2010 By Ben Thornley

IN a time of great uncertainty at Anfield the only thing  which appears assured is that Rafa Benitez’s Liverpool reign is coming to a hasty end.
By 2006, Benitez had led Liverpool to glory in the Champions League and the FA Cup while attaining the Reds’ highest ever Premier League points total.
However, after the club’s worst league season since Gerard Houllier’s first at the club and four years without a trophy,    the Spaniard is on the brink.
So, where did it go wrong?

THE YANKS
Tom Hicks and George Gillett  arrived at Anfield in February 2007 vowing to give Benitez the finances to buy the best players in football.
That, however, proved to be just one of the many promises they failed to keep.
Benitez was on the verge of being sacked  by the December with Jurgen Klinsmann lined up as his successor  after the manager made a series of remarks about a lack of transfer funds.
Even before the credit crunch, the Americans were struggling to find the finances to back up their bold words.  Since the global recession they’d do well to get a Burton store card.
In recent transfer windows Benitez has been forced to trade at a profit after the Americans’ financial bungling.
Just as damaging, though, have been the Anfield factions and the toxic relationship between the two owners, their families, chief executives, managing directors and the manager.


THE 2007 ATHENS CHAMPIONS LEAGUE FINAL
If Benitez’s victory in Istanbul ensured him legendary status at Anfield, a second Champions League final victory in 2007 would have made him untouchable.
The  brilliance of Steven Gerrard rescued Benitez’s bungling in 2005,  when the manager decided not to use his best defensive midfielder, Dietmar Hamman, to snuff out  the finest trequartista in world football, Kaka.
But even the skipper couldn’t intervene when the Spaniard once more made a hash of it against AC Milan the second time round.
With Carlo Ancelloti’s aged defence vulnerable to height and pace,  tactical genius Benitez left 6ft 7 Peter Crouch and lightening quick Craig Bellamy on the Olympic Stadium bench in favour of Dirk Kuyt, used as a lone striker.
Milan, who triumphed 2-1,  couldn’t believe their luck.
Benitez spent the summer growing a goatee beard.  Liverpool have failed to reach a cup final since. Coincidence?

THE LOSS OF PAKO AYESTERAN AND PACO HERRERA
Both men played a key role in Valencia’s two title triumphs and were highly regarded by the Liverpool boss.
Herrera provided Benitez with tactical insight while Ayesteran was regarded as among the best fitness coaches in the game.
More importantly, though, they were not afraid to tell their friend when he was wrong – and Benitez respected their opinion.
Since their departure the Anfield chief has allowed himself to be surrounded by yes men who have allowed all of his dubious tactical and transfer decisions to go unquestioned.

DIRK KUYT
The Dutchman has contributed  many vital goals, particularly in Europe, since his  signing from Feyenoord  in 2006.
Liverpool,  however, took a significant step back for his arrival when  he replaced Peter Crouch as the Reds’ first-choice striker.
Poor in the air, a miserable first touch and a lack of pace made him ill-suited to either of the striker roles.
That mattered little to Benitez, though. Kuyt’s relentless running and pressing of opponents  made him the boss’ forward of choice, destroying the dynamic of the team and reversing the progress that had been made the season before.
The 29-year-old has successfully reinvented himself as a right winger, but is all too often asked to play as a lone striker in Torres’ absence – a task he lacks the attributes to perform. It has never worked – but that hasn’t stopped Benitez.


TACTICS/ BENITEZ’S CAUTION
Benitez’s command  of English has  improved during his six years at Anfield but his grasp of what it takes to win the English Premier League has  not.
In a division that regularly  sees the champions finish with more than 90 points,  playing for a draw against a team outside of the top four isn’t an option.
Benitez threw away  his and Liverpool’s best opportunity to finally end their title  drought last season by allowing his caution to stifle the Reds.
Had Benitez’s side  turned a handful  of the dreadful draws against the likes of Hull City, Stoke City and Everton into victories, they would have been champions.

4-2-3-1
Benitez’s preferred formation since his Valencia days. It’s merits are obvious – but the dogmatic 50-year-old  often fields players unsuitable for particular  roles   within the system when key men  are unavailable,  rather than switch to  a shape that would better suit his personnel.
And do Liverpool really need two defensive midfield players against the likes of Wolves?


XABI ALONSO/ ALBERTO AQUILANI
Forcing the Basque midfielder’s exit from Liverpool was perhaps the manager’s greatest mistake – an even poorer decision than opting to sign the perennially crocked Alberto Aquilani as his replacement.
Alonso – the Reds’ player of the season in 2008/09 –  was integral to the way Liverpool played, providing Torres and Gerrard with quick possession in dangerous areas of the pitch.
There’s a reason Real Madrid paid £30m for him – he’s the best in the business at what he does.


INJURIES TO TORRES AND  GERRARD
The Anfield boss has been unfortunate in this respect, particularly during the last two seasons.
Some of the worst performances of this period, though, have been delivered with both men in the starting XI.

STRIKER LIGHT
Parting company with  Bellamy and  Crouch rank among the manager’s worst moves  in the transfer market.
Particularly given the injury record of Fernando Torres and the paucity of options last season in the Spaniard’s absence.
Entering the season with just the raw  David Ngog and awful Andriy Voronin as back-up  was criminally negligent.


2008/09 TRANSFER DEALINGS
This was Benitez’s    Houllier 2002 moment.
Summer signings Robbie Keane (£21m), Andrea Dossena (£7m) and Phillip Degen (free)  all failed to make an impact, with Keane and Dossena both failing to last more than  a season.
Degen – who has an injury record that makes  Aquiliani look indestructible   –  too would have been jettisoned if anyone would take him.
It could have been worse. Benitez nearly sold Alonso to Arsenal for £12m – a year before he fetched £30m – and bought Gareth Barry for £20m before the owners and Rick Parry  intervened.
At least they got something right.


THE APPOINTMENT OF EDUARDO MACIA
Liverpool’s chief scout and the man responsible for a series of transfer  disasters, notably  Alberto Aquilani and  Andrea Dossena.
Even if he tells you Lionel Messi is  a decent prospect, get  a second opinion.

I actually agree with everything, but for the part on Alonso.
Until his last season with us I never though of Alonso of anything but a good 1st team player. Not a even close of being a star, world class player etc as it wasn't until the last season when he probably had his mind set already to leave that he elevated his game another level.

And I also want to highlight the part where it says 2008/2009 transfer dealings as he did really well in his first seasons.

Other than that it is spot on imo.
Ever since that final I have said and will continue to say, we will not win another title until one headless chicken is of the 1st team selection sheet 

Penguins wrote:

s@int wrote:How Rafa Benitez's Liverpool FC reign went wrong
May 6 2010 By Ben Thornley

IN a time of great uncertainty at Anfield the only thing  which appears assured is that Rafa Benitez’s Liverpool reign is coming to a hasty end.
By 2006, Benitez had led Liverpool to glory in the Champions League and the FA Cup while attaining the Reds’ highest ever Premier League points total.
However, after the club’s worst league season since Gerard Houllier’s first at the club and four years without a trophy,    the Spaniard is on the brink.
So, where did it go wrong?

THE YANKS
Tom Hicks and George Gillett  arrived at Anfield in February 2007 vowing to give Benitez the finances to buy the best players in football.
That, however, proved to be just one of the many promises they failed to keep.
Benitez was on the verge of being sacked  by the December with Jurgen Klinsmann lined up as his successor  after the manager made a series of remarks about a lack of transfer funds.
Even before the credit crunch, the Americans were struggling to find the finances to back up their bold words.  Since the global recession they’d do well to get a Burton store card.
In recent transfer windows Benitez has been forced to trade at a profit after the Americans’ financial bungling.
Just as damaging, though, have been the Anfield factions and the toxic relationship between the two owners, their families, chief executives, managing directors and the manager.


THE 2007 ATHENS CHAMPIONS LEAGUE FINAL
If Benitez’s victory in Istanbul ensured him legendary status at Anfield, a second Champions League final victory in 2007 would have made him untouchable.
The  brilliance of Steven Gerrard rescued Benitez’s bungling in 2005,  when the manager decided not to use his best defensive midfielder, Dietmar Hamman, to snuff out  the finest trequartista in world football, Kaka.
But even the skipper couldn’t intervene when the Spaniard once more made a hash of it against AC Milan the second time round.
With Carlo Ancelloti’s aged defence vulnerable to height and pace,  tactical genius Benitez left 6ft 7 Peter Crouch and lightening quick Craig Bellamy on the Olympic Stadium bench in favour of Dirk Kuyt, used as a lone striker.
Milan, who triumphed 2-1,  couldn’t believe their luck.
Benitez spent the summer growing a goatee beard.  Liverpool have failed to reach a cup final since. Coincidence?

THE LOSS OF PAKO AYESTERAN AND PACO HERRERA
Both men played a key role in Valencia’s two title triumphs and were highly regarded by the Liverpool boss.
Herrera provided Benitez with tactical insight while Ayesteran was regarded as among the best fitness coaches in the game.
More importantly, though, they were not afraid to tell their friend when he was wrong – and Benitez respected their opinion.
Since their departure the Anfield chief has allowed himself to be surrounded by yes men who have allowed all of his dubious tactical and transfer decisions to go unquestioned.

DIRK KUYT
The Dutchman has contributed  many vital goals, particularly in Europe, since his  signing from Feyenoord  in 2006.
Liverpool,  however, took a significant step back for his arrival when  he replaced Peter Crouch as the Reds’ first-choice striker.
Poor in the air, a miserable first touch and a lack of pace made him ill-suited to either of the striker roles.
That mattered little to Benitez, though. Kuyt’s relentless running and pressing of opponents  made him the boss’ forward of choice, destroying the dynamic of the team and reversing the progress that had been made the season before.
The 29-year-old has successfully reinvented himself as a right winger, but is all too often asked to play as a lone striker in Torres’ absence – a task he lacks the attributes to perform. It has never worked – but that hasn’t stopped Benitez.


TACTICS/ BENITEZ’S CAUTION
Benitez’s command  of English has  improved during his six years at Anfield but his grasp of what it takes to win the English Premier League has  not.
In a division that regularly  sees the champions finish with more than 90 points,  playing for a draw against a team outside of the top four isn’t an option.
Benitez threw away  his and Liverpool’s best opportunity to finally end their title  drought last season by allowing his caution to stifle the Reds.
Had Benitez’s side  turned a handful  of the dreadful draws against the likes of Hull City, Stoke City and Everton into victories, they would have been champions.

4-2-3-1
Benitez’s preferred formation since his Valencia days. It’s merits are obvious – but the dogmatic 50-year-old  often fields players unsuitable for particular  roles   within the system when key men  are unavailable,  rather than switch to  a shape that would better suit his personnel.
And do Liverpool really need two defensive midfield players against the likes of Wolves?


XABI ALONSO/ ALBERTO AQUILANI
Forcing the Basque midfielder’s exit from Liverpool was perhaps the manager’s greatest mistake – an even poorer decision than opting to sign the perennially crocked Alberto Aquilani as his replacement.
Alonso – the Reds’ player of the season in 2008/09 –  was integral to the way Liverpool played, providing Torres and Gerrard with quick possession in dangerous areas of the pitch.
There’s a reason Real Madrid paid £30m for him – he’s the best in the business at what he does.


INJURIES TO TORRES AND  GERRARD
The Anfield boss has been unfortunate in this respect, particularly during the last two seasons.
Some of the worst performances of this period, though, have been delivered with both men in the starting XI.

STRIKER LIGHT
Parting company with  Bellamy and  Crouch rank among the manager’s worst moves  in the transfer market.
Particularly given the injury record of Fernando Torres and the paucity of options last season in the Spaniard’s absence.
Entering the season with just the raw  David Ngog and awful Andriy Voronin as back-up  was criminally negligent.


2008/09 TRANSFER DEALINGS
This was Benitez’s    Houllier 2002 moment.
Summer signings Robbie Keane (£21m), Andrea Dossena (£7m) and Phillip Degen (free)  all failed to make an impact, with Keane and Dossena both failing to last more than  a season.
Degen – who has an injury record that makes  Aquiliani look indestructible   –  too would have been jettisoned if anyone would take him.
It could have been worse. Benitez nearly sold Alonso to Arsenal for £12m – a year before he fetched £30m – and bought Gareth Barry for £20m before the owners and Rick Parry  intervened.
At least they got something right.


THE APPOINTMENT OF EDUARDO MACIA
Liverpool’s chief scout and the man responsible for a series of transfer  disasters, notably  Alberto Aquilani and  Andrea Dossena.
Even if he tells you Lionel Messi is  a decent prospect, get  a second opinion.

I actually agree with everything, but for the part on Alonso.
Until his last season with us I never though of Alonso of anything but a good 1st team player. Not a even close of being a star, world class player etc as it wasn't until the last season when he probably had his mind set already to leave that he elevated his game another level.

And I also want to highlight the part where it says 2008/2009 transfer dealings as he did really well in his first seasons.

Other than that it is spot on imo.
Ever since that final I have said and will continue to say, we will not win another title until one headless chicken is of the 1st team selection sheet 

bavlondon wrote:Of course they do Emerald. They have played football manager 2010!

Penguins wrote:we will not win another title until one headless chicken is of the 1st team selection sheet 

  Is that Babel, Mascha or Kuyt?

lakes10 wrote:

bavlondon wrote:Of course they do Emerald. They have played football manager 2010!

I dont understand it mate, I play Fifa 09 and under Rafa we have won every game.....saying that Alonso and Robbie Keane are still in the team

I've always been a pro evo man myself. 

bavlondon wrote:

lakes10 wrote:

bavlondon wrote:Of course they do Emerald. They have played football manager 2010!

I dont understand it mate, I play Fifa 09 and under Rafa we have won every game.....saying that Alonso and Robbie Keane are still in the team

I've always been a pro evo man myself. 

maguskwt wrote:I was rather refering to the negative articles...by all means you can write your opinions as much as you like ( however opinions from both sides have been repeated ad nauseam as well lol)...

That said I agree with alot of the points above, I agree that we have underachieved. However i believe that the current manager can do better which the antis don't believe. And I believe that the likes of hodgsen and oneil are nowhere near the quality to replace rafa. If we go for these managers it will all go downwards. If we're talking about Kenny, hiddink or mourinho or capello I would not mind that much. The difference here is that some of us recognize the conditions rafa had to work under which the new manager would experience as well. And also some of us recognise this season as a backlash from losing Alonso, and being able to get a long term replacement in aquilani instead of an immediate replacement.