Liverpool FC Forum

by **tonyeh** » Mon May 03, 2010 1:57 am

s@int wrote:
juljuve wrote:What do you think about Torres? Will he stay if Rafa leaves?

I fecking hope so mate, he plays for Liverpool FC not Rafa FC. He must be a little p!ssed off that he left A.Madrid to win trophies and now they are in a final and our season is over.

Maybe that's why he had a big puss on him today.

by **Igor Zidane** » Mon May 03, 2010 2:19 am

Benitez has struggled, but he's not Liverpool's biggest problem

Oliver Kay, Football Correspondent

They love an anniversary at Liverpool. At this time of year, the time when the prizes are handed out, barely a day goes by without the club’s website informing supporters what happened on this day in history. But a twentieth anniversary went unmarked last week. Some dates, it seems, are better glossed over.

It is two decades since Liverpool were last crowned champions of England, two decades since an occurrence that had become so natural happened for the last, or most recent, time. Two decades in which the game — or at least the business — has been transformed, threatening to turn the Merseyside club into a relic or, as Chelsea’s supporters put it yesterday, "ancient history".

It was unimaginable back then that, within 20 years, Liverpool’s unassailable record of 18 league championships would have been equalled by Manchester United. Unimaginable, too, that a day would come when a dispiriting home defeat by Chelsea in early May would be welcomed by many supporters — albeit not inside the ground — because it may have spared them the ignominy of surrendering that record to United once and for all

Rafael Benítez is not to blame for the fact that the famine, in terms of the trophy that Bill Shankly once called the club’s "bread and butter", has been extended to 20 years. In his six years at Anfield, Liverpool have never been the best-resourced English club.

Winning the title in any of Benítez’s seasons in charge would have required his team to perform beyond realistic expectations, something they did 12 months ago in finishing second with 86 points, a total that Chelsea can only equal this time by winning their final game on Sunday.

The failures of the past two decades cannot be laid at Benítez’s doorstep. Nor, to any great extent, can this season’s abject struggle, the roots of which lay in a summer in which money was not made available to strengthen a squad that had overachieved in finishing runners-up last season. But none of that can disguise the fact that Anfield is in the grip of a malaise. Some prefer to call it a cancer — a cancer that started in the boardroom and has spread — but, whatever it is, it has had the team in its grip since last August.

The much-loved Benítez has struggled all season long to find an antidote, but, the more the malaise has taken hold, the more impotent he has begun to look. And the deeper Liverpool have fallen into a familiar sense of depression, as past glories become ever more distant and future successes become ever harder to foresee. His managership has ceased to be a source of comfort for anyone wondering where the next league title is coming from, but Benítez is not anything like Liverpool’s biggest problem.

http://timesonline.typepad.com/thegame....m-.html

by **Igor Zidane** » Mon May 03, 2010 2:20 am

From The Times
May 2, 2010
Tony Barrett

Liverpool in need of revolution to ease pain

The owners could not be there because they are so reviled. The new one-day-a-week chairman stayed away because he is a Chelsea fan. The manager was there but could not confirm whether he still would be next season. The players looked like they wanted to be, in the words of Elvis Costello, anywhere else but here today. The supporters, meanwhile, sat in an angst-induced silence, shaken to the core by what Liverpool Football Club have become.

Playing patsy for Chelsea at the end of an abomination of a season may not have represented Liverpool’s lowest ebb, but it felt like it. Carlo Ancelotti had been looking forward to seeing Anfield in all its glory, but all the Chelsea manager experienced yesterday was a fast-fading institution that is in serious danger of crumbling under the weight of debt piled on to it by Tom Hicks and George Gillett Jr, the absentee landlords

Mr. Ferguson, in an understandable bout of self-interest, had tried to coax a performance out of Liverpool to aid his team’s title challenge. “Big clubs don’t throw away their history,” the Manchester United manager pointed out to back up his theory that Liverpool would not surrender the points to Chelsea just to stop their rivals usurping their status as English football’s most prolific winner of league championships

Had Ferguson been speaking with Liverpool’s best interests at heart, he would have qualified his statement by saying that they can jeopardise their future. That, after all, has been the case for Liverpool since Hicks and Gillett were handed the keys to the Shankly Gates in February 2007. A combination of debt, division and disharmony has torn the club apart. The malaise has been so invasive that the discord has spread to the supporters, as evidenced by the angry reaction to the unfurling of a “Rafa out” banner in an executive box on the final whistle. As if losing their status as a member of the European elite was not enough, Liverpool are in grave danger of losing their dignity.

The symbolism of the day’s events could not have been riper. May, according to a famous Anfield banner, is traditionally the month when Liverpool go gathering cups. They have not done that for four years under Rafael Benítez, though, and so low has their stock fallen over the past 12 months that they struggled even to offer a token resistance as Chelsea went in search of the points they need to help claim the title that Liverpool once classed as their own. Furthermore, Jamie Carragher and Steven Gerrard, the club’s fabled Scouse heartbeat, were unable to intervene, the former hobbling off after being injured during the move that led to Chelsea’s second goal and the latter having unwittingly created the first.

It was hard to imagine Chelsea have had too many easier away games this season and the only consolation for Liverpool was that there is only one week left in a sorry campaign. “You’re ancient history,” the Chelsea fans crowed in riposte to the Kop’s questioning of their past, and on a day as hollow as this one was for Liverpool it was hard to argue with that verdict.

Without a revolution — starting with a new owner with money to burn and followed by the building of a new stadium — then the future for Liverpool cannot be anything other than bleak.

“Tom and George: still not welcome here,” read the banner flown over Anfield by an aeroplane before kick-off. By full time another aircraft had appeared bearing a different message, this time a wedding proposal. One can only hope that, if accepted, this union is more fruitful and harmonious than the one that is bringing one of world sport’s greatest institutions to its knees. Under American ownership the mantra about Liverpool existing to win trophies is no longer applicable; they exist merely to pay down the gargantuan debts that the pair have piled on to the club.

As Benítez walked around the pitch with his players at the end of the game in front of a half-empty stadium it was hard to escape the feeling that this was the last time he would lead such a ritual. “Oh Rafa Benítez, we want you to stay,” the Chelsea contingent mocked as the lap of honour, if it could be called such a thing, continued. Those in the visitors’ section then turned their attentions to Gerrard, only to earn a finger-wagging rebuke for their troubles.

The response came from James Carragher, the seven-year-old son of Jamie. It was the only real act of defiance from anyone at Liverpool on a day when the only solace to be taken was that United have not bettered their much-cherished record of 18 league titles — yet.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol....606.ece

by **cpc4eva** » Mon May 03, 2010 2:30 am

revolution =

make gerrad player manager
carra his assistant player manager

and let the revolution begin.

by **rocky29** » Mon May 03, 2010 2:47 am

juljuve wrote:
s@int wrote:
juljuve wrote:What do you think about Torres? Will he stay if Rafa leaves?

I fecking hope so mate, he plays for Liverpool FC not Rafa FC. He must be a little p!ssed off that he left A.Madrid to win trophies and now they are in a final and our season is over.

I know mate, but here some medias link him to Inter Milan

do you not think rafa will be trying to persuade his fellow spaniard torres to leave. If u dont your all naive. He wont be here next season. He will go to italy.

by **Kharhaz** » Mon May 03, 2010 3:19 am

rocky29 wrote:do you not think rafa will be trying to persuade his fellow spaniard torres to leave. If u dont your all naive. He wont be here next season. He will go to italy.

If I was a king, I would choose you as my jester !

by **Ciggy** » Mon May 03, 2010 6:07 am

Igor Zidane wrote:From The Times
May 2, 2010
Tony Barrett

Liverpool in need of revolution to ease pain

The owners could not be there because they are so reviled. The new one-day-a-week chairman stayed away because he is a Chelsea fan. The manager was there but could not confirm whether he still would be next season. The players looked like they wanted to be, in the words of Elvis Costello, anywhere else but here today. The supporters, meanwhile, sat in an angst-induced silence, shaken to the core by what Liverpool Football Club have become.

Playing patsy for Chelsea at the end of an abomination of a season may not have represented Liverpool’s lowest ebb, but it felt like it. Carlo Ancelotti had been looking forward to seeing Anfield in all its glory, but all the Chelsea manager experienced yesterday was a fast-fading institution that is in serious danger of crumbling under the weight of debt piled on to it by Tom Hicks and George Gillett Jr, the absentee landlords

Mr. Ferguson, in an understandable bout of self-interest, had tried to coax a performance out of Liverpool to aid his team’s title challenge. “Big clubs don’t throw away their history,” the Manchester United manager pointed out to back up his theory that Liverpool would not surrender the points to Chelsea just to stop their rivals usurping their status as English football’s most prolific winner of league championships

Had Ferguson been speaking with Liverpool’s best interests at heart, he would have qualified his statement by saying that they can jeopardise their future. That, after all, has been the case for Liverpool since Hicks and Gillett were handed the keys to the Shankly Gates in February 2007. A combination of debt, division and disharmony has torn the club apart. The malaise has been so invasive that the discord has spread to the supporters, as evidenced by the angry reaction to the unfurling of a “Rafa out” banner in an executive box on the final whistle. As if losing their status as a member of the European elite was not enough, Liverpool are in grave danger of losing their dignity.

The symbolism of the day’s events could not have been riper. May, according to a famous Anfield banner, is traditionally the month when Liverpool go gathering cups. They have not done that for four years under Rafael Benítez, though, and so low has their stock fallen over the past 12 months that they struggled even to offer a token resistance as Chelsea went in search of the points they need to help claim the title that Liverpool once classed as their own. Furthermore, Jamie Carragher and Steven Gerrard, the club’s fabled Scouse heartbeat, were unable to intervene, the former hobbling off after being injured during the move that led to Chelsea’s second goal and the latter having unwittingly created the first.

It was hard to imagine Chelsea have had too many easier away games this season and the only consolation for Liverpool was that there is only one week left in a sorry campaign. “You’re ancient history,” the Chelsea fans crowed in riposte to the Kop’s questioning of their past, and on a day as hollow as this one was for Liverpool it was hard to argue with that verdict.

Without a revolution — starting with a new owner with money to burn and followed by the building of a new stadium — then the future for Liverpool cannot be anything other than bleak.

“Tom and George: still not welcome here,” read the banner flown over Anfield by an aeroplane before kick-off. By full time another aircraft had appeared bearing a different message, this time a wedding proposal. One can only hope that, if accepted, this union is more fruitful and harmonious than the one that is bringing one of world sport’s greatest institutions to its knees. Under American ownership the mantra about Liverpool existing to win trophies is no longer applicable; they exist merely to pay down the gargantuan debts that the pair have piled on to the club.

As Benítez walked around the pitch with his players at the end of the game in front of a half-empty stadium it was hard to escape the feeling that this was the last time he would lead such a ritual. “Oh Rafa Benítez, we want you to stay,” the Chelsea contingent mocked as the lap of honour, if it could be called such a thing, continued. Those in the visitors’ section then turned their attentions to Gerrard, only to earn a finger-wagging rebuke for their troubles.

The response came from James Carragher, the seven-year-old son of Jamie. It was the only real act of defiance from anyone at Liverpool on a day when the only solace to be taken was that United have not bettered their much-cherished record of 18 league titles — yet.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol....606.ece

That is one depressing article because the truth hurts and this is the truth we are finished if no one buys our club finsihed and Rafa will be the least of our worries :down:

by **kazza** » Mon May 03, 2010 7:10 am

Igor Zidane wrote:From The Times
May 2, 2010
Tony Barrett

Liverpool in need of revolution to ease pain

The owners could not be there because they are so reviled. The new one-day-a-week chairman stayed away because he is a Chelsea fan. The manager was there but could not confirm whether he still would be next season. The players looked like they wanted to be, in the words of Elvis Costello, anywhere else but here today. The supporters, meanwhile, sat in an angst-induced silence, shaken to the core by what Liverpool Football Club have become.

Playing patsy for Chelsea at the end of an abomination of a season may not have represented Liverpool’s lowest ebb, but it felt like it. Carlo Ancelotti had been looking forward to seeing Anfield in all its glory, but all the Chelsea manager experienced yesterday was a fast-fading institution that is in serious danger of crumbling under the weight of debt piled on to it by Tom Hicks and George Gillett Jr, the absentee landlords

Mr. Ferguson, in an understandable bout of self-interest, had tried to coax a performance out of Liverpool to aid his team’s title challenge. “Big clubs don’t throw away their history,” the Manchester United manager pointed out to back up his theory that Liverpool would not surrender the points to Chelsea just to stop their rivals usurping their status as English football’s most prolific winner of league championships

Had Ferguson been speaking with Liverpool’s best interests at heart, he would have qualified his statement by saying that they can jeopardise their future. That, after all, has been the case for Liverpool since Hicks and Gillett were handed the keys to the Shankly Gates in February 2007. A combination of debt, division and disharmony has torn the club apart. The malaise has been so invasive that the discord has spread to the supporters, as evidenced by the angry reaction to the unfurling of a “Rafa out” banner in an executive box on the final whistle. As if losing their status as a member of the European elite was not enough, Liverpool are in grave danger of losing their dignity.

The symbolism of the day’s events could not have been riper. May, according to a famous Anfield banner, is traditionally the month when Liverpool go gathering cups. They have not done that for four years under Rafael Benítez, though, and so low has their stock fallen over the past 12 months that they struggled even to offer a token resistance as Chelsea went in search of the points they need to help claim the title that Liverpool once classed as their own. Furthermore, Jamie Carragher and Steven Gerrard, the club’s fabled Scouse heartbeat, were unable to intervene, the former hobbling off after being injured during the move that led to Chelsea’s second goal and the latter having unwittingly created the first.

It was hard to imagine Chelsea have had too many easier away games this season and the only consolation for Liverpool was that there is only one week left in a sorry campaign. “You’re ancient history,” the Chelsea fans crowed in riposte to the Kop’s questioning of their past, and on a day as hollow as this one was for Liverpool it was hard to argue with that verdict.

Without a revolution — starting with a new owner with money to burn and followed by the building of a new stadium — then the future for Liverpool cannot be anything other than bleak.

“Tom and George: still not welcome here,” read the banner flown over Anfield by an aeroplane before kick-off. By full time another aircraft had appeared bearing a different message, this time a wedding proposal. One can only hope that, if accepted, this union is more fruitful and harmonious than the one that is bringing one of world sport’s greatest institutions to its knees. Under American ownership the mantra about Liverpool existing to win trophies is no longer applicable; they exist merely to pay down the gargantuan debts that the pair have piled on to the club.

As Benítez walked around the pitch with his players at the end of the game in front of a half-empty stadium it was hard to escape the feeling that this was the last time he would lead such a ritual. “Oh Rafa Benítez, we want you to stay,” the Chelsea contingent mocked as the lap of honour, if it could be called such a thing, continued. Those in the visitors’ section then turned their attentions to Gerrard, only to earn a finger-wagging rebuke for their troubles.

The response came from James Carragher, the seven-year-old son of Jamie. It was the only real act of defiance from anyone at Liverpool on a day when the only solace to be taken was that United have not bettered their much-cherished record of 18 league titles — yet.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol....606.ece

I cannot see us picking up next year unless we change the ownership, and somehow I don't see these w@nkers putting aside their greed and accepting less for the team. I have never felt such little hope as a Liverpool supporter. I pray it does not get worse (which it could).

For what it is worth, I will always think of Rafa fondly as not many managers would have worked so hard in helping the team achieve success. Our demise has not been from his lack of effort. Where we are has not been his fault even though he is the easy target. Those of you that celebrated his inabilities will get your wish. My only question is who will you blame next year?

by **Penguins** » Mon May 03, 2010 7:12 am

Well, no matter which club, if it is run like Hull City long enough, it will get the results like Hull City.

by **Sir Roger** » Mon May 03, 2010 9:17 am

People are really over-reacting with all this doom and gloom talk. The current squad has enough quality to be challenging for the PL and trophies. The reason we havent has been patently clear throughout the season. The manager has not got the best out of the players enough times. Its that simple. There have been occassions when the have shone and, unfortunately, more when theyve stunk the Fu*king place out. He has failed to pick the right team, play the right formation, use the right tactics and make the right substitutions too many times and it has cost us dear.
He has failed to motivate his players and we have performed poorly because of this. He is not the victim. We are. His stubborness and ignorance have turned the players from runners up to also rans.
Rafas biggest flaw is that he doesnt learn from his mistakes. This is because he doesnt feel hes made any. Others have, but not him. Thats the irony of the whole situation and why we cannot progress no matter what money he is given

by **bigmick** » Mon May 03, 2010 10:19 am

Sir Roger wrote:People are really over-reacting with all this doom and gloom talk. The current squad has enough quality to be challenging for the PL and trophies.

100% agree. Far too much wrist slashing going on in here recently. This is the same bunch of players bar two plus two which finished second in the league last season, so we really ought to be able to do better than seventh, four points ahead of the juggernaught more commonly known as Everton.

I'm pretty positive whichever way it goes. Even if Rafa stays (which I think he will) and we don't buy a single player, I think we'll do better next season than this time around for a number of reasons.

1. He surely won't stick with the Lucas/Masherano axis for another season. Stubborn he is, stupid he isn't, and if he alters that little fulcrum of mediocrity then we will instantly become a better team. We have instantly become a better team this season each time he's altered it, so although it's taking a while the penny will eventually drop I'm sure of it.

2. We have been a bit unlucky this season.

3. I fully expect us to actually take the domestic cups seriously next season. You can only win four trophies each year (and had Pompey not been snookered because of paperwork it would only be three next season), so Rafa will put more of his emphasis on the Carling Cup etc. He should too.

If Rafa leaves we will improve because the players will want to play for the new manager.

As the song goes, things can only get better. So put down the razor blades, don't worry about the Roeder/Warnock dream ticket if Rafa leaves, it won't happen.

by **Sir Roger** » Mon May 03, 2010 10:52 am

bigmick wrote:
Sir Roger wrote:People are really over-reacting with all this doom and gloom talk. The current squad has enough quality to be challenging for the PL and trophies.

100% agree. Far too much wrist slashing going on in here recently. This is the same bunch of players bar two plus two which finished second in the league last season, so we really ought to be able to do better than seventh, four points ahead of the juggernaught more commonly known as Everton.

I'm pretty positive whichever way it goes. Even if Rafa stays (which I think he will) and we don't buy a single player, I think we'll do better next season than this time around for a number of reasons.

1. He surely won't stick with the Lucas/Masherano axis for another season. Stubborn he is, stupid he isn't, and if he alters that little fulcrum of mediocrity then we will instantly become a better team. We have instantly become a better team this season each time he's altered it, so although it's taking a while the penny will eventually drop I'm sure of it.

2. We have been a bit unlucky this season.

3. I fully expect us to actually take the domestic cups seriously next season. You can only win four trophies each year (and had Pompey not been snookered because of paperwork it would only be three next season), so Rafa will put more of his emphasis on the Carling Cup etc. He should too.

If Rafa leaves we will improve because the players will want to play for the new manager.

As the song goes, things can only get better. So put down the razor blades, don't worry about the Roeder/Warnock dream ticket if Rafa leaves, it won't happen.

He persisted with Lucas and Masherano even though a blind man on a galloping horse could see how impotent the pairing was.
Is that just stubborness? If hes not stupid could he be insane?
What justification can someone have for sticking with such a fruitless combination? Do you think wenger or purple nose would have blindly stuck with this dreadful duo?
Of course not.
Only Rafa could and would.

by **sixbuster** » Mon May 03, 2010 11:48 am

Hopefully he shows his stubborness in Italy next year and brings Lucas with him

by **tubby** » Mon May 03, 2010 11:57 am

Sir Roger wrote:
bigmick wrote:
Sir Roger wrote:People are really over-reacting with all this doom and gloom talk. The current squad has enough quality to be challenging for the PL and trophies.

100% agree. Far too much wrist slashing going on in here recently. This is the same bunch of players bar two plus two which finished second in the league last season, so we really ought to be able to do better than seventh, four points ahead of the juggernaught more commonly known as Everton.

I'm pretty positive whichever way it goes. Even if Rafa stays (which I think he will) and we don't buy a single player, I think we'll do better next season than this time around for a number of reasons.

1. He surely won't stick with the Lucas/Masherano axis for another season. Stubborn he is, stupid he isn't, and if he alters that little fulcrum of mediocrity then we will instantly become a better team. We have instantly become a better team this season each time he's altered it, so although it's taking a while the penny will eventually drop I'm sure of it.

2. We have been a bit unlucky this season.

3. I fully expect us to actually take the domestic cups seriously next season. You can only win four trophies each year (and had Pompey not been snookered because of paperwork it would only be three next season), so Rafa will put more of his emphasis on the Carling Cup etc. He should too.

If Rafa leaves we will improve because the players will want to play for the new manager.

As the song goes, things can only get better. So put down the razor blades, don't worry about the Roeder/Warnock dream ticket if Rafa leaves, it won't happen.

He persisted with Lucas and Masherano even though a blind man on a galloping horse could see how impotent the pairing was.
Is that just stubborness? If hes not stupid could he be insane?
What justification can someone have for sticking with such a fruitless combination? Do you think wenger or purple nose would have blindly stuck with this dreadful duo?
Of course not.
Only Rafa could and would.

Whilst you 2 may think that some of our best players don't. Does that not mean anything to you?

As the article says we need a new owner with cash to burn and a new stadium. Otherwise we better get used to finishing where we will do this season or worse should we lose anyone significant in the summer.

by **Ben Patrick** » Mon May 03, 2010 12:43 pm

bavlondon wrote:
Sir Roger wrote:
bigmick wrote:
Sir Roger wrote:People are really over-reacting with all this doom and gloom talk. The current squad has enough quality to be challenging for the PL and trophies.

100% agree. Far too much wrist slashing going on in here recently. This is the same bunch of players bar two plus two which finished second in the league last season, so we really ought to be able to do better than seventh, four points ahead of the juggernaught more commonly known as Everton.

I'm pretty positive whichever way it goes. Even if Rafa stays (which I think he will) and we don't buy a single player, I think we'll do better next season than this time around for a number of reasons.

1. He surely won't stick with the Lucas/Masherano axis for another season. Stubborn he is, stupid he isn't, and if he alters that little fulcrum of mediocrity then we will instantly become a better team. We have instantly become a better team this season each time he's altered it, so although it's taking a while the penny will eventually drop I'm sure of it.

2. We have been a bit unlucky this season.

3. I fully expect us to actually take the domestic cups seriously next season. You can only win four trophies each year (and had Pompey not been snookered because of paperwork it would only be three next season), so Rafa will put more of his emphasis on the Carling Cup etc. He should too.

If Rafa leaves we will improve because the players will want to play for the new manager.

As the song goes, things can only get better. So put down the razor blades, don't worry about the Roeder/Warnock dream ticket if Rafa leaves, it won't happen.

He persisted with Lucas and Masherano even though a blind man on a galloping horse could see how impotent the pairing was.
Is that just stubborness? If hes not stupid could he be insane?
What justification can someone have for sticking with such a fruitless combination? Do you think wenger or purple nose would have blindly stuck with this dreadful duo?
Of course not.
Only Rafa could and would.

Whilst you 2 may think that some of our best players don't. Does that not mean anything to you?

As the article says we need a new owner with cash to burn and a new stadium. Otherwise we better get used to finishing where we will do this season or worse should we lose anyone significant in the summer.

Sorry Bav, agree with mick and roger.

We are still a good side with some top players.

If we did not sign one player and went into next season with the same squad and manager things would not be as poor as they have been this season.
I am certain of that.

I want a change of manager but i am not sure we will get one.
Either way we wont be as bad a this season even with Rafa.
He is not a poor manager, just one that looks like he has taken us as far as he can.
A new man would rejuvinate the players and even with limited funds we will be there or there abouts.

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