Liverpool FC Forum

by **GYBS** » Mon Aug 17, 2009 4:34 pm

Toffeehater wrote:
GYBS wrote:
Effes wrote:
stmichael wrote:Are some of you who are advocating dropping Lucas and moving Gerrard back into midfield not overlooking the possibility that yesterday it wasn't Lucas who was the problem in midfield, but Mascherano? The issue yesterday was not with winning the ball back, but keeping it when we had it. Personally I thought that Lucas had a fairly tidy game. I'm not so sure that the same could be said of Mascherano. Some of the posts on this thread and on others seems to be latching on to the idea that because of who he is, Mascherano is exempt from blame for what happened yesterday. At one stage it was like Old Trafford two seasons a go all over again. I thought he was going to get himself sent off.

St - Aldo gave Masch 2nd place man of the match. (I think Benny got 1st)

I didnt watch the full 90 mins so I cant comment

Aldo needs to open his eyes mate - Pepe was our MOTM followed by Yossi but masher was shocking - made a number of rash tackles , gave the ball away on numerous occasions and one mistake lead to carra and skrtel getting injured when he spooned the ball - also his mouth nearly got him into trouble . masher was very much well below par

Rash tackles , what about the amount of trackin back he did , he didn't commit against lennon perhaps its you who needs your eyes checking cos masch was good.

well you and aldo must be the only person then as look around all the forums and they will tell you that masher had a very poor game

by **Toffeehater** » Mon Aug 17, 2009 4:35 pm

redbeergoggles wrote:I think what I found most distressing about yesterdays game were the amount of shots Spurs were allowed to actually get on target ,and the most disconcerting aspect for me personally, was the space in front of our back two that regularly opened up for them ,Carragher could not have been more docile if he had ingested copious quantities of horse tranquillizer, his collision with Skrtel took an eternity .

I think Mascherano was a disgrace to the shirt any more performances of this ilk and his elevated status amongst fans will seriously diminish ,then he might just find the Kop a completely different animal and one less forgiving ,Torres game revolves around receiving the ball and surging towards goal however the sooner he learns that there are different options, ie to lay the ball off and play a one two ,you know the Liverpool way he might have more success .

I do realize Torres has earned the right to have the odd game were nothing goes right ,but yesterday it was bordering on the ridiculous ,Liverpool have literally been brought up on the basic precept that football is a simple game ,if you know your having a bad game start with the simple things like controlling and passing the ball .

Reina was superb and prevented Spurs chalking up a huge scoreline ,Johnson was ok but I expect a more solid right side and on certain occasions he was caught to far up field ,Insua was my man of the match along with Benayoun ,as for Lucas he held the midfield together in the absence of Mascherano who was shameful, equally deserving of that mantle was Babel completely inept not a miniscule of football nouse .

by **GYBS** » Mon Aug 17, 2009 4:36 pm

That post is just about spot on RBG

by **Toffeehater** » Mon Aug 17, 2009 4:45 pm

Fair enough GYBS you and i both have our own views

by **puroresu** » Mon Aug 17, 2009 4:48 pm

bigmick wrote:
GYBS wrote:Wanted Pavluychenko after the euros last summer - very good striker and would take him of spuds

Darren Bent is much better IMHO.

Pavluychenko is rubbish. out of depth.

by **redbeergoggles** » Mon Aug 17, 2009 4:49 pm

GYBS wrote:That post is just about spot on RBG

Cheers ,see what people forget is Mascherano has it in his locker to produce phenomenal displays that's why he is much vaunted as a world class midfielder ,yesterday was disgraceful in as much as while Babel continually flatters to deceive and still produces a naivety more akin to schoolboy football ,Mascherano is capable of totally dominating a game with a commanding presence and his displays deserve the heading world class .

I think he genuinely delivered a slap in the face to the fans that idolise him at Anfield ,if he doesn't want to be here do it with the same dignity and respect for the club that Alonso afforded us last season, and leave us with a season to remember .

by **crazyhorse** » Mon Aug 17, 2009 5:06 pm

Masch was not a disgrace to the shirt yesterday. IMHO he and Lucas were overrun in midfield and the way he at least threw himself into a tackle or two showed his frustration and that he was trying to make an impact.

Partly, I do think that Stevie played too forward, and did not link the play as he should (this is the role) He was invariably in the fist 60 minutes playing alongside Torres, and the gap between them and the midfield allowed the Spurs midfield to dominate,forcing the back four to bypass them and play the long ball.

As Benny came on we did get better, and this I hope will show Rafa that the way ahead for the next game is to go along these lines.

by **redbeergoggles** » Mon Aug 17, 2009 5:22 pm

crazyhorse wrote:Masch was not a disgrace to the shirt yesterday. IMHO he and Lucas were overrun in midfield and the way he at least threw himself into a tackle or two showed his frustration and that he was trying to make an impact.

Partly, I do think that Stevie played too forward, and did not link the play as he should (this is the role) He was invariably in the fist 60 minutes playing alongside Torres, and the gap between them and the midfield allowed the Spurs midfield to dominate,forcing the back four to bypass them and play the long ball.

As Benny came on we did get better, and this I hope will show Rafa that the way ahead for the next game is to go along these lines.

We all have differing views fella ,mine is I was personally devastated by the lack of heart in Mascherano's display ,lets just say it wasn't in keeping with his usual performances in a red shirt, or would you be satisfied if he replicated yesterdays performance on regular occasions throughout the season ,however saying that I do concur with the latter part of your post concerning Gerrard ,but that still does not excuse Mascherano for going missing .

by **LFC2007** » Mon Aug 17, 2009 5:51 pm

Totally and utterly outplayed, outclassed, outfought. Embarrassing really.

Fair play to Spurs, they were outstanding, but we didn't even come close in real terms - we certainly didn't deserve anything other than what we got. It may sound like excessive criticism, but I really don't see how you could paint it any other way. We barely threatened them at all, looked very shakey at the back and our midfield was insipid for the vast majority of the game. Gerrard and Torres rarely linked throughout, and Torres in particular had a mare (admittedly, you can put that down as more or less a one off). Kuyt/Babel, woeful. The Masch-Lucas partnership flopped, both were dominated by Palacios/Huddlestone with their athleticism, drive and passing abilities. We surely cannot rely on that partnership for prolonged spells. At best we may be able to 'get away with it'.

I didn't see a major problem with the tactics. I've said it before and I'll say it again: You can't play the high pressing game in such instances as this if you don't have the players that first enable you to control the midfield and thus the game. Why push up and press if you can only keep the ball for sequences of five passes? This was a much improved Spurs side with some excellent counter-attacking players and a very strong centre; this fact allied to our lack of a competitive edge and lack of quality rendered our tactical manoeuvrability intractable. By failing to compete we didn't even give ourselves the option of opening the game up in our direction.

Sure, that performance was nothing like reflective of our actual ability and of course we will play better - but when, and can it be sustained? There is reason for significant concern on a long-term basis because certain aspects of our play have again proved costly, and the absence of Alonso, the injury to Aquilani and the consequences of this is prime amongst my concerns. The lack of squad depth is patently obvious.

by **JoeTerp** » Mon Aug 17, 2009 6:05 pm

but if you apply a lot of pressure, doesn't that increase your chances of forcing a mistake and earning yourself a "gifted chance" I think it would require much less fluid passing to create a chance if we won the ball in their half and we were just one or two passes away from a Gerrard or Torres one on one with Gomes

by **LFC2007** » Mon Aug 17, 2009 6:21 pm

JoeTerp wrote:but if you apply a lot of pressure, doesn't that increase your chances of forcing a mistake and earning yourself a "gifted chance" I think it would require much less fluid passing to create a chance if we won the ball in their half and we were just one or two passes away from a Gerrard or Torres one on one with Gomes

If managed carefully, yes, but it remains that if you don't compete, that is, put yer foot in, and fail to string more than five passes together, you limit your options.

by **The Good Yank** » Mon Aug 17, 2009 6:23 pm

I was up until about 3am last night still sort of steaming about not getting the second penalty (I was drunk too, but that's besides the point). I finally just tried to take a step back and just face it like this. Aside from the Penalty that was given we didn't even have a decent shot on goal, THE ENTIRE MATCH. None. Nada. Zilch. There was just no cohesiveness in attack all day. Johnson made a few nice runs down the wing, whipped in a few nice crosses, But with nobody working themselves to get on the end of the crosses it ended up not having the effect Johnson desired.

My only problem with Rafa (in regards to yesterday) was the Babel selection. And if not the selection, than why wait so late to put Yossi on for him. Babel's performance was dire from the first whistle.

And now for something that may raise a bit of ire. For me the absolute shocker of the day was Carragher's performance. I understand that to be a great defender a characteristic that is at the forefront is the ability and desire to take charge of the backline. IMO Carra took this a bit too overboard yesterday and ended up actually being a detriment to his teamates. I love the lad and appreciate his heart and workmanlike efforts, but he's got to tone it down a bit and allow his teamates to make a few plays. At the advanced state of his career he needs to be reminded that it's time he adjust a bit and try to keep things a little simpler.

by **JoeTerp** » Mon Aug 17, 2009 6:45 pm

the part of Carra's performance that gets me mad now, is how terribly uneccessary his foul was that lead to the 2nd goal. it was waaay out in front and going to go straight to Reina. I feel like that goal took all the wind out of our sails. I think we just might have gone on to get the winner if they hadn't scored. I think SPurs would have really felt the pressure and maybe a chance could have fallen to stevie or nando.

also his passing for the majority of the game was not so hot.

by **Tim LFC** » Mon Aug 17, 2009 6:56 pm

We played poor. I think if our players played at least half there best we could of won. We just have to start to gel together. Spurs had an unchanged team while we lost Alonso so of course we need to learn to play without him. I just hope we get back on track for Stoke and hopefully buy some more players or try some youngsters FFS!

by **Number 9** » Mon Aug 17, 2009 7:15 pm

Im still disgusted with dropping 3 points in the first game of the new season.It would have been great to win there,and it would have been a great 3 points to take,they are a good side!

On reflection though...I doubt very much that our 3 main rivals will go there this term and take all 3 points!It would have been worse if we had been home to Birmingham and lost when all three were away in tough games and won!
Its not a disaster by any account if you look at it that way...they all have to go to the lane yet and someone else will loose or draw.Its only one game,there is nothing we can do about it now apart from take it as a severe boot in the balls and move on.

Our next lot of games coming up are all winnable..we'll be OK,we'll be up there,I believe!!

Take comfort in not being a bitter fan!
6-1!! :laugh:

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