Liverpool FC Forum

[stmichael]

The ones that got away...

Anelka £8m, pace and quality personified. Excellent player. Him and Ashton would have been a hell of a partnership. Pace, power, intelligence, goals, strength, arial ability, poaching and Anelka even runs the channels.

Absolutely agree 100% with this. It was a disastrous decision by Houllier not to sign this guy up. Just look at the guy now. He's scored 8 goals in 8 games for Bolton, who lets face it, don't exactly play the style of football that should suit Anelka's game.

Despite being a sulking git the guy's class. On his day he's a better player than Henry imo.

[83-1165214211]

Hey Stu,

   I understand where your coming from especially with the Kewell and Sissoko thing. If you look here:

Harry Kewell

   Last year we done so well because the balance of the team was a lot better. The medium between attack and defence was a lot better and we were a very hard team to beat. This year with the additions of the fabled "out and out wingers" our team has shipped quite a lot of goals in.

  Also the rotation thing, I'm glad to see that we both agree on the idea that we should never change our back five. These players need to be able to trust each other and need to develop an understanding between each other. However the other 5 places (minus Gerrards starting place) is up for grabs. I can see where your coming from with the dropping of in-form players but Rafa has got a system and he is sticking to it.

   Can you honestly say that Fowler has looked like he has had a goal in him in the games he has played this year? Yes he scored a few important goals last year, and I think he can still do a job this year in some matches. But Kuyt, Crouch, Bellamy all bring more to the starting 11 when they play.  I love Fowler mate, and it hurts to see him not making the bench but he is too old and too slow for the Premiership. Keegan, Pearce and now  Rafa all think he is a good finisher but he does not bring much to the team. His injuries blighted what could of been the most glorious career in English football. Its sad but he is not worthy of a starting place in our eleven however much it pains me to say it. The premiership demands footalling athletes in todays modern era, with the pace of the game and the strength of the teams in our league, and sadly Fowler is not much of an athlete.


    The grass is not always greener on the other side. Ashton done well at Crewe and Norwich and last year for West Ham. But the same can be said of Peter. He had a brilliant 6 months for Southhampton, a drought for us and then a brilliant 12 months. He has been a good player for us in the last 12 months. His goal scoring record is brilliant for a "freak" who could not buy a goal in his first 3 months here. I admire Ashton, he looked exceptional against us in the F.A Cup Final and he really worried me from the off. But for 7m+ he would represent a gamble in my eyes. His pluses for me is that he is English, a big strong lad, and is good on the ball. However Peter was just as much as a gamble for £7m and I think he has been worthy of the money we spent. He has not had much playing time and his misses against Blackburn are magnified because of the  1 - 0 scoreline. But he has been excellent for us and I think that Rafa considers him a very important member of the Liverpool squad.

With the Anelka thing I don't really want to get into a discussion about him as it would just go round and round, good point about Crouch start, but I wanted him after his loan spell, I would not bring him back now, many would but I would not, its just a difference of opinion.

  Bullard again, he was a good player for Wigan. I thought he did ok. However if I was a manager and had to pick over Sissoko or Bullard it would be Sissoko everytime. Bullard probably does have a better pass, shot etc. But what Momo brings to the side is vital. He wins the ball back for us a lot quicker than we do when he ain't playing. When he is in the centre of the field, and we lose it, he shadows the balls every move and more often than not gets the ball back or breaks up play. Just look out for it mate, when we play Spurs today, look how long it takes us to get the ball back, then compare it to when Momo is back in the team.

  The Gerard Houllier debate again?  Houllier left this club in a bad way, I cannot see how you can argue with that. The amount of money he spent on warmed up "shit" is astounding. 14m for Cisse (what a parting shot BTW), 10m for Diouf, 5m for Diao - who Gerrard says in his book was never up to the standard from day 1, 6m for Biscan? He spent a lot of money at our club and he did not produce the goods. I will always be thankful for the cups that he won but he left this club in a precarious position when he left. Our finances are still bad, while he was handing out £50,000 a week to Dudek, £25,000 to Diao, £65,000 for Kewell. Houllier spent money very unwisely in his time here and also sold Robbie.

  The fact you say 9 of his players started in the CL final does not wash with me. Biscan, Troare, Smicer and Baros hardly ever got a game under him. In the case of Biscan, Troare and Baros, they were happy to see him go. Also Gerrard and Carra were from the academy and before Rafa came in Riise was not exactly flavour of the month with GH was he?

  No GH was bad for this club, I never liked him mate, I loved Evans being a little nipper and was gutted when he left so my instant dislike for the french one started there and I was very happy to see the back of him.

Constuctive criticism is welcome mate, its a discussion forum, thats whats its all about. Mine and your views differ greatly on Pennant, but we shall see about that one, I also remember your views on Carragher a few years ago and he has come on leaps and bounds.

  Please don't patronise me or insult me with statements like "People like you will turn against Rafa" and " kissing". I am a fan of Liverpool Football Club, like you. My views might be controversial, like you. I can see a balanced view, like you.  I tend to look at the long term and stay positive, is that a blip in my character, maybe it is, but don't start insulting people because your views might differ. Its a forum mate. I respect your views, I expect the same.

Cheers,

Rafa-Dodd

Firstly on Fowler, can I say he's had a goal in him? Honestly? Yes. Quite simply. The lad probably his more goals in his left foot alone than Bellamy, Crouch and Kuyt have in there whole careers. Like I said before, look at the stats he's got this season, look at his stats last season. This team creates chances and someone like him can put them away.

This team is absoloutely crying out for someone to attack the ball in the box and it never happens when he doesn't play.

You go on about Kuyt, Crouch and Bellamy "bringing more" but thats . What more can you bring than goals? This team needs a goalscorer.

As for being to old and slow for the premiership thats unbelievabley stupid and naive. How the can you be to slow? Jan Molby couldn't run. ITS NOT ABOUT PACE! I'm sick to death of hearing this rubbish from clueless arsewholes who know all about anything.

Why the do you think this country produces recently and one talented player every so often? Simple, they all want athletes rather than footballers. Ever since Michael Owen its all been about pace pace pace. Its . Vassell's got pace. I hate the attribute with a passion, i'm sick of people chatting about it. Sissy has pace he's world class...

Hyypia has no pace he's .

Fowler has no pace he's .

Its absoloutely enfuriating.

You go on about the game demanding athletes, I'm sorry but it doesn't. Liverpool last season for me were one of the slowest sides in the league with only Gerrard with what you would call pace and we were easily the second best side in the country. Its about football. If you want pace go and watch Michael Johnson or Linford Christie.

THE SINGLE MOST IMPORTANT ATTRIBUTE OF EVERY FOOTBALLER IS A PASS. CAN THEY PASS A BALL.

Fowler can pass a ball. Fowler improved us as a team last year. This season we have gone backwards and we haven't improved as a team. This is due to missing Kewell, Sissoko and not playing Fowler. Fowler IS A BETTER FOOTBALLER than all of our strikers and thats what counts. I know he can't do it for 90 minutes twice a week, but he's being drasitcally underused.


You then go on about Crouch? Take the blinkers off. He's distinctly average. A centre forward who can't head a ball, attack a ball or shoot? Whats the point? Yes he's had good games, yes he's useful, yes he can do some very good things but Liverpool material and a quality player? Give me a break.

You say Ashtons a gamble? Clueless is the word to describe that statement. Absoloutely clueless. Ability is what counts and ability makes a player. Not form. If you are good enough, you're good enough. Pennant has ability and will succeed. Ashton has ability and is a good player. Bullard has ability. Ability makes you a player, not media hype and form.

Please explain to everyone here how your wonderful Crouch was poor against West Ham's defence in the biggest game of his life yet the "gamble" was easily the best player on the pitch against last seasons strongest defence scoring one and creating one aswell as being a neuisance all game...

In what way is Ashton a gamble? His strength? Is he not strong enough? Maybe he can't finish? Maybe he's not that good in the air? Oh no, maybe its his intelligence and lack of ability to spot a pass? Maybe he can't play with his back to goal and can't shoot? Maybe its that he gets bullied by defenders and can't perform against quality opposition? Ashton is better in EVERY aspect of the game, so how is it a gamble playing him instead of Crouch? Are you telling me a player who's stronger, with a better touch and technique and a better finisher and quicker and more mobile and better header of a ball can't do what Crouch is doing? How on earth do you come to that conclussion please?

Typical of the doesn't play for Liverpool so can't be good enough clan. Typical of the internet forum user who bangs on about how great Liverpool are and how great all our players are and then wonders why we are struggling to win games against good sides.

I actually find it laughable about you sitting there telling me to "watch how long it takes to get the ball back" when Sissoko doesn't play. You say it as if I don't understand the game?

Not only do I find it laughable, I find it insulting. Watch how when he does play he doesn't score a goal, watch how his shots end up in the stand, watch how sloppy he is in possession and heavy his touch can be, watch how he gets pulled out of position and can leave players exposed ni the centre of the park.

I'm fully aware of what Sissoko does thank you, i've seen him enough times and i'm fully aware that theres more to football than the 11 players that are on the pitch at Liverpool every week. Mind you, Bullard and Ashton play for average sides in the premiership so how could they EVER be good enough for Liverpool right?

You're right Houllier left us in an awful way. An FA Cup, 2 league cups, european super cup and a Uefa cup and a squad of players that included Hamann, Hyypia, Owen, Carragher, Finnan, Riise, Baros, Dudek, Murphy, Kewell. Get your head out your . He wasn't the best manager but he certainly wasn't as bad as some complete and utter make out. Dya know what right, people like you really me off. You're the typical the evertonians talk about when they say kopites are . Typical clueless blinkered arsewips.

As for My views on Carragher lad.... DON'T EVEN GO THERE! I am absoloutely sick of the people come out with. I had it right from day one, was right last season, was right now, I still say EXACTLY THE SAME AS I DID WHEN HE FIRST CAME THROUGH! EXACTLY THE SAME so get your facts right. I bet after his debeut he was the next Roy Keane, then under Houllier you wanted him sold coz he was ... now he's world class?

When all along from day one I said the lads a very good player who's excellent defensively and has his limitations.

But when he played fullback for Houllier I supose I was wrong, he was . Now he's playing centre back I'm also wrong because he's world class?

Dya know what.... the people are on here are so detatched from reality its unreal.

[83-1165214211]

As for Pennant the jury is still out, but one thing is sure. He's definatley not the player that Stu hyped him up to be. At the moment he looks just an average midfielder with his eyes caught like a rabbits in the headlights of a car. I personally would of chosen the " big name" signing of SWP over Pennant as he offers more of a goal threat aswell as confidence and ability to take a player on, tied up with workrate. But I'll still give Pennant the time as I will with Gonzo.

Isn't he really?

So you're telling me he wasn't beating men? He wasn't putting crosses in? He wasn't setting up goals and playing on the wing?

The lads petrified at the moment and looks scared to play his natural game. Check out the assist for Fowlers header against Galatasary if you want to see what Pennant is capable of. His touch is excellent, he has good delivery, pace, can beat a man and has intelligence in his play. He severely lacks goal threat, I've never claimed him to be fantastic in this area.

His only problem is confidence, if you can't see that then you're watching a different a player.

[stmichael]

stu, sometimes i just really wish you'd get off the fence

seriously though i agree with you about pennant. i think the lad's got ability. i just think both he and bellamy were a bit starstruck when they first came here. at the end of the day this is liverpool fc, not mickey mouse clubs such as blackburn, birmingham or newcastle. the expectations are so much higher here than at your average club.

[A.B.]

Pennant does have the ability and at the moment as already said he's not showing it. However if he wishes to have a future at this club which I'm sure he does, he needs to start performing.

He was woeful today, not only did Gerrard give him a bullocking on the pitch but Rafa did as well from the touch-line.

I hope he succeeds, because he does have the talent. I was excited when we signed him.

[account deleted by request]

Player From Fee Date
Jean Michel Ferri Istanbulspor £1,500,000 28.11.1998
Frode Kippe Lillestrøm £700,000 06.01.1999
Rigobert Song Salernitana £2,600,000 26.01.1999
Djimi Traore Laval £550,000 18.02.1999
Sami Hyypia Willem II £2,500,000 19.05.1999
Vladimir Smicer Lens £3,750,000 24.05.1999
Titi Camara Marseille £2,600,000 01.06.1999
Stephane Henchoz Blackburn £3,500,000 02.06.1999
Sander Westerveld Vitesse Arnhem £4,000,000 15.06.1999
Erik Meijer Leverkusen Free* 01.07.1999
Dietmar Hamann Newcastle £8,000,000 22.07.1999
Emile Heskey Leicester £11,000,000 10.03.2000
Bernard Diomede Auxerre £3,000,000 07.06.2000
Gary McAllister Coventry Free 01.07.2000
Markus Babbel Bayern Munich Free* 01.07.2000
Pegguy Arphexad Leicester Free* 01.07.2000
Nick Barmby Everton £6,000,000 18.07.2000
Christian Ziege Middlesbrough £5,500,000 25.08.2000
Gregory Vignal Montpellier £500,000 22.09.2000
Daniel Sjolund West Ham £1,000,000 28.11.2000
Igor Biscan Dynamo Zagreb £5,500,000 07.12.2000
Jari Litmanen Barcelona Free 04.01.2001
John Arne Riise Monaco £4,000,000 20.06.2001
Milan Baros Banik Ostrava £3,200,000 26.07.2001
Chris Kirkland Coventry £6,000,000* 31.08.2001
Jerzy Dudek Feyenoord £4,850,000 31.08.2001
Nicolas Anelka Paris St Germain On Loan* 20.12.2001
Abel Xavier Everton £750,000 30.01.2002
Bruno Cheyrou Lille £3,700,000 16.05.2002
El Hadji Diouf Lens £10,000,000 01.06.2002
Alou Diarra Bayern Munich Free 09.07.2002
Patrice Luzi Monaco Free 29.07.2002
Salif Diao Sedan £4,700,000 06.08.2002
Steve Finnan Fulham £3,500,000 01.07.2003
Anthony Le Tallec Le Havre £1,500,000* 01.07.2003
Florent S Pongolle Le Havre £1,500,000* 01.07.2003
Harry Kewell Leeds United £5,000,000 09.07.2003
Carl Medjani St Etienne Free 08.08.2003
Paul Jones Southampton On Loan* 09.01.2004
Djibril Cisse Auxerre £14,500,000* 01.07.2004


Gerard Houllier bought 40 players for £125,400,000


The reason Houlier was a poor manager!

To make matters worse he let 2 of his best signings go for no apparent reason in Anelka and Litmenen, and allowed Owen to run his contract down after saying he would never let it happen again after McManaman.

He also left Liverpool with a lot of "deadwood" that no one wanted on tremendous wages. Diao being the prime example.

[83-1165214211]

Player From Fee Date
Jean Michel Ferri Istanbulspor £1,500,000 28.11.1998
Frode Kippe Lillestrøm £700,000 06.01.1999
Rigobert Song Salernitana £2,600,000 26.01.1999
Djimi Traore Laval £550,000 18.02.1999
Sami Hyypia Willem II £2,500,000 19.05.1999
Vladimir Smicer Lens £3,750,000 24.05.1999
Titi Camara Marseille £2,600,000 01.06.1999
Stephane Henchoz Blackburn £3,500,000 02.06.1999
Sander Westerveld Vitesse Arnhem £4,000,000 15.06.1999
Erik Meijer Leverkusen Free* 01.07.1999
Dietmar Hamann Newcastle £8,000,000 22.07.1999
Emile Heskey Leicester £11,000,000 10.03.2000
Bernard Diomede Auxerre £3,000,000 07.06.2000
Gary McAllister Coventry Free 01.07.2000
Markus Babbel Bayern Munich Free* 01.07.2000
Pegguy Arphexad Leicester Free* 01.07.2000
Nick Barmby Everton £6,000,000 18.07.2000
Christian Ziege Middlesbrough £5,500,000 25.08.2000
Gregory Vignal Montpellier £500,000 22.09.2000
Daniel Sjolund West Ham £1,000,000 28.11.2000
Igor Biscan Dynamo Zagreb £5,500,000 07.12.2000
Jari Litmanen Barcelona Free 04.01.2001
John Arne Riise Monaco £4,000,000 20.06.2001
Milan Baros Banik Ostrava £3,200,000 26.07.2001
Chris Kirkland Coventry £6,000,000* 31.08.2001
Jerzy Dudek Feyenoord £4,850,000 31.08.2001
Nicolas Anelka Paris St Germain On Loan* 20.12.2001
Abel Xavier Everton £750,000 30.01.2002
Bruno Cheyrou Lille £3,700,000 16.05.2002
El Hadji Diouf Lens £10,000,000 01.06.2002
Alou Diarra Bayern Munich Free 09.07.2002
Patrice Luzi Monaco Free 29.07.2002
Salif Diao Sedan £4,700,000 06.08.2002
Steve Finnan Fulham £3,500,000 01.07.2003
Anthony Le Tallec Le Havre £1,500,000* 01.07.2003
Florent S Pongolle Le Havre £1,500,000* 01.07.2003
Harry Kewell Leeds United £5,000,000 09.07.2003
Carl Medjani St Etienne Free 08.08.2003
Paul Jones Southampton On Loan* 09.01.2004
Djibril Cisse Auxerre £14,500,000* 01.07.2004


Gerard Houllier bought 40 players for £125,400,000


The reason Houlier was a poor manager!

To make matters worse he let 2 of his best signings go for no apparent reason in Anelka and Litmenen, and allowed Owen to run his contract down after saying he would never let it happen again after McManaman.

He also left Liverpool with a lot of "deadwood" that no one wanted on tremendous wages. Diao being the prime example.

Poor managers don't win UEFA Cups, FA cups, League cups (consistently) beat the top sides and sign good players.

They don't sign 14 players of a squad that wins a champions league. The then don't take over a good team in France and Europe and improve them after being forced into selling two of the best players.

Get a grip.

[account deleted by request]

They do when they spend over £125million to improve a squad like this :-

[83-1165214211]

They do when they spend over £125million to improve a squad like this :-

You talk .

Another typical wool who doesn't understand the game at all.

[account deleted by request]

I may not understand the game but I understand money better than most, and I know when its being P!ssed away and when its being spent wisely, and Houlier p!ssed away more than most.

[83-1165214211]

I may not understand the game but I understand money better than most, and I know when its being P!ssed away and when its being spent wisely, and Houlier p!ssed away more than most.

He also spent alot wisely and done good things... but i supose that doesn't matter?

 

[account deleted by request]

If you spent £125million I dare say even you could get a few decent players along with ALL the

[83-1165214211]

If you spent £125million I dare say even you could get a few decent players along with ALL the

You've just admitted you don't understand football.

You then say Houllier (a manager who has won things and is still winning things) is a "poor" manager.

You fail to acknowledge the good he done for the club and the quality he brought in. You fail to acknowledge when his team peaked it was a very strong side although not quite good enough.

You call him poor because Wenger and Ferguson were better than him... Laughable.

You call him poor because he wasted £24m on Diouf and Sissy. Ferguson wasted £29m on Veron.

You call him poor for winning us an FA Cup, 2 league cups and a Uefa cup and a Super Cup.

You call him poor, yet Hyypia, Carragher, Riise, Finnan, Gerrard and Kewell are still in and around the team and some of our if not most important players... Why hasn't Benitez replaced these? You call him poor probably as you did Carragher when he played at right back for Houllier and now you're probably one of the idiots who thinks he's world class...

Lets be honest, those who have opinions on things they know nothing about aren't worth talking to.

[account deleted by request]

Carragher was played at right back and looked average at best under Houllier
Riise was hardly a regular
Finnan couldnt get a game
Gerrard was and is obviously class so no prizes there
Kewell was going for (what seemed at the time) a song so ANOTHER NO BRAINER

Hyypia was a great signing but if I picked 40 players costing £125million I think I would get one or two good buys.

I have been watching and playing football since before you even born mate. My father was playing for Liverpool before you were born. I have seen the good and the great come and go, so I think I am as good a judge as the next on football. Obviously as you
are the expert on all things concerning football, so I know nothing in comparison to you lol.

Lets be honest those who cant discuss football without being rude and offensive arn't worth talking to. I don't usually bother arguing with you but I thought while you were talking about how good Houllier was I would give it a go.

Houllier was blessed when he came to Liverpool with 5 good home bred talents McManaman, Owen, Carra, Fowler and Gerrard. HALF A TEAM OF QUALITY PLAYERS !

You have picked 4 buys out of 40. Want me to pick a few Diouf, Diao, Cheyrou, Diomede, Cisse etc etc

I call him poor because he left this club with a huge wage bill and players who wern't fit to wear a red shirt and that he had paid enormous sums for.

Man u, Chelsea Arsenal and Newcastle were better Laughable!


Lets have a little experiment you pick Houlliers good buys and I will pick 2 of his buys that cost more and were cr@p and see who runs out of players first 

[83-1165214211]

Carragher was played at right back and looked average at best under Houllier
Riise was hardly a regular
Finnan couldnt get a game
Gerrard was and is obviously class so no prizes there
Kewell was going for (what seemed at the time) a song so ANOTHER NO BRAINER

Hyypia was a great signing but if I picked 40 players costing £125million I think I would get one or two good buys.

I have been watching and playing football since before you even born mate. My father was playing for Liverpool before you were born. I have seen the good and the great come and go, so I think I am as good a judge as the next on football. Obviously as you
are the expert on all things concerning football, so I know nothing in comparison to you lol.

Lets be honest those who cant discuss football without being rude and offensive arn't worth talking to. I don't usually bother arguing with you but I thought while you were talking about how good Houllier was I would give it a go.

Houllier was blessed when he came to Liverpool with 5 good home bred talents McManaman, Owen, Carra, Fowler and Gerrard. HALF A TEAM OF QUALITY PLAYERS !

You have picked 4 buys out of 40. Want me to pick a few Diouf, Diao, Cheyrou, Diomede, Cisse etc etc

I call him poor because he left this club with a huge wage bill and players who wern't fit to wear a red shirt and that he had paid enormous sums for.

Man u, Chelsea Arsenal and Newcastle were better Laughable!


Lets have a little experiment you pick Houlliers good buys and I will pick 2 of his buys that cost more and were cr@p and see who runs out of players first 

Carragher has always been the same player. Yet fools can't recognise this, people said he was average when he never was, he's always been excellent defensively, people now say he's world class and he's nowhere near it, he's simply excellent defensively. He's grown in confidence and influence and he's matured, but he's still fundamentally the same player with the same strengths and weaknesses as he's always had and pretty much the same level of ability as when he first broke into the side and scored against Aston Villa with a header at the kop end, the first of a 3-0 win.

More you spout... Riise wasn't a regular?

38 league games in his first season, 37 in his second, 28 in his third? I'm sorry, but if that doesn't define as a regular then what does? Another clueless statement that proves you don't know what you're talking about.

Finnan struggled with Injury and played when he was fit after he first signed. Its about ability at the end of the day. Finnan has and always had ability.

Houllier was unlucky in the sense he built a team around a solid defence with Markus Babbel being one or our best players. We had an excellent team the season we finished second. The team peaked that season, after the treble, and were a very very strong side, unfortunately the loss of Babbel and the failiure to sign a class winger on the left was his undoing. A poor manager would never have accomplished this.

Houllier's failiure was simple. He didn't build on his early success and made massive mistakes in the market. Absoloutely no way is the man a poor manager. Any statement made like this shows a complete lack of knowledge, respect and dignity.

Who's your dad? Played for Liverpool? Whats his name?

As for you playing... Theres an invite for you to come and play football with me anytime you like and I'll show you what I know on the pitch. Also I'm a qualified coach and have been brought up speaking to the right people and learning from the best... Ever heard of Whiston Juniors? Harry Warburton, John Fletcher, Steve Highway, Pete Lindburg?

Its very typical of the nitpicking arsewholes to point out Sissy, Diouf and Diao.

Its funny how they forget Henchoz, Hyypia, McAllister, Babbel, Anelka, Hamann etc.

As for you being a good judge, firstly you've just admitted you don't understand the game. Within that the tactical movements, you probably have no idea how these players train, what they do in training, positional play, team movement, technical ability, tactical ability, quality, player potential and ability, mentality, man management nor do you have a balanced view on anything to do with Houllier or Liverpool under his management.

Where on earth you get the rediculous notion that Newcastle and Chelsea were better is beyond me, infact its quite pathetic and completely floors your arguement beyond any reasoning whatsoever. I'm fed up of arguing with idiots like yourself. You bore me as does your complete lack of knowledge and respect for this club and servants.