Liverpool FC Forum

[Kharhaz]

I still hold the belief that this side, and the manager, is better than this.

Me too, I do. But I also think that rafa has tinkered around with the formation and players too much and it shows in our performances. The players look as if they are tired of being mucked about. They go on the pitch in a vegative state, and look like not caring. The players have lost faith in rafa, this is as clear as glass.

[Kharhaz]

THe two players you mention are in charge of average clubs, with little or no expectation.

Heres another one, Steve McClaren. Assistant to Alex Ferguson. Ended up managing the England squad.

There you go. As daft as my idea is, reality is dafter !

[NANNY RED]

Do you know what everyone on here knows how much i loved Xabi, still do But ill tell you something i really wish Sammi was still here , He would be our rock i know he would,More of a loss to us than we realise,

[Reg]

Do you know what everyone on here knows how much i loved Xabi, still do But ill tell you something i really wish Sammi was still here , He would be our rock i know he would,More of a loss to us than we realise,

The issue isnt that we let Sami go Nan, but that we didnt replace him with the right calibre of person.

[Octsky]

I think we have reach a stage that the other manager cant do worse than Rafa.
sack him, appoint Kenny Daglish as caretaker manager with Sammy lee.
The team needs to play for the shirt now!

Those who have supported Rafa whole hearterly 2 mths ago, i wondered still how many are left. The directors need to draw a line where enough is enough, we cant keep losing every alternate wk.

[boodiddy1]

The clock has ticked on far too long. If we didn't have such diabolical owners who take our eye off the manager so much, then im sure rafa would have gone a little earlier.

Its come to a point were the players dont believe, and the bigger players dont even trust some of their team mates. This is down to rafa players about. He has to go and soon. Lets not dick about and hope that things will change, they wont. When a dressing room and players are so disconnected  then a manager like rafa has no chance.

He looks bemused, more than the fans i think. He hasn't won anything without pako. Sammy and pellegrino are just yes men. Pako was to rafa what taylto was to cloughie. The team is a shamblles and even the market value of this team is dwindling. So, we could end up with more deadwood than we did with houllier. More worrying is that stevie isn't a spring chicken and neither is carra.

I lost patience with rafa last season. His tactics bug me to death. I knew we'd get beat today. He has to go and lets get the team motivated. Kenny can do that, cos thats whats needed more than anything. Our players haven't become bad players overnight. Redknapp did it last year at spurs with ramos' team.

Please rafa walk of tit and tit please sack him

[Kharhaz]

Ive just realised I have spent most of my time arguing with a tw@t, a manc, and blind irishman. Heres one for you, form an opinion of your own. You have spent time taking the mickey out of me and yet not one of you, combined have an opinion of your own. You sit there acting all high and mighty. Heres my take on you three. One of you can only sit there and mock others opinion, this is natural, you have never had one of your own. One of you have to join your rivals forum to get some kind of decent conversation going. Again, you lack the intelligence to form your own and finally, if rafa isnt god, be damned us all.

Bite me you bunch of losers, pick up on my arguments by all means, but for christs sake have one of your own. A fool I am for replying to godforsaken fools.

[bigmick]

Look, it's over. It's finished, kaput, we tried it and him and it didn't work.

We've done five and a half years, and now it's all coming crashing down. The only thing up for discussion from here on in is when we switch the life support machine off, because the club is not going to come back to life under Benitez. The players know it and are already getting ready for the new man and the new broom, the fans who are not still deluding themselves know it, and all the opposition teams know it too. A team which has ceased to take direction from the manager (has been effectively "lost" by him) is directionless, passionless, listless and clueless. If we concede a goal we crumble, if we don't succeed early in games our confidence drains away like water dwon a plughole.

The only question is now, would we be better off having Kenny as a caretaker if he doesn't want it permanently, while we get a good replacement at the end of the season, or should we just pull the trigger and get the replacement in straight away. Either way lets put the man out of his misery, it's embarrassing to watch someone so devoid of inspiration desperately clinging onto power and trying in his drowning state to actually inspire others.

It's not going to happen. Ever. It's over, and it's time to go.

[Madmax]

I think rafa wants to only stay so he could prove lucas could become a world star..  No offence to the fella but he looked like a right clown in the post match interview.. Must have been high on something...

Yeah i agree with mick, i can't see us ever winning the premiership with rafa.. I'm getting sick of the limited formation we play and the poor players chosen over decent ones on the bench. Buying a crock on top of that isn't helping at all..

Instead of buying johnson and aquilani i would have preffered if we had kept arbeloa and possible brought in david villa and changed the system to 4-4-2.. Gerrard cold have played alongside macha with torres/villa up front!

[Thinkpad]

Ive just realised I have spent most of my time arguing with a tw@t, a manc, and blind irishman. Heres one for you, form an opinion of your own. You have spent time taking the mickey out of me and yet not one of you, combined have an opinion of your own. You sit there acting all high and mighty. Heres my take on you three. One of you can only sit there and mock others opinion, this is natural, you have never had one of your own. One of you have to join your rivals forum to get some kind of decent conversation going. Again, you lack the intelligence to form your own and finally, if rafa isnt god, be damned us all.

Bite me you bunch of losers, pick up on my arguments by all means, but for christs sake have one of your own. A fool I am for replying to godforsaken fools.

Well said.. Agreed to disagree is the best way forward for now. Have an opinion just voice it, it is a free world. If others disagree with yours, just let it be. I hardly reply mine.. Cheers.

[andy_g]

he's lost the plot. in a series of bizarre post match interviews and press conferences he has now set a whole new level.

---------------

from the grauniad

Are you worried about your job, Rafael Benítez? With a section of the Liverpool away fans joining in the Fratton chants of, "You're getting sacked in the morning," after their embarrassing defeat, he probably should be.

Immediately after the game the Liverpool manager, who only last week had assured fans of a top-four finish, was tight-lipped. "I'm worried about winning the next game," he said, with a face like an undertaker.

Benitez then gave a bizarre performance in the post-match press conference, appearing to blame the referee, Lee Mason, for the defeat by repeatedly labelling the official's performance "perfect" – the word enunciated with a heavy dose of sarcasm.

Benítez claimed that Javier Mascherano should not have been sent off – a decision that, he felt, turned the game.

Benítez: "I have seen the replay and for me it is not a sending-off, but anyway the referee was perfect. He didn't make any mistakes. Now Javier is injured, and I will say again the referee didn't make any mistake."

Press: "We don't understand? You say the referee didn't make a mistake?"

Benítez: "No he was perfect. Perfect. He was perfect."

Press: "So why was it not a sending-off?"

Benítez: "I have seen the replay, for me it's not a sending-off, but anyway. Perfect."

Press: "Was there any particular reason why players like Gerrard or Torres couldn't get it together and perform?"

Benítez: "No, the referee was perfect so Torres, he didn't have any problems."

Press: "You were a goal down before the sending-off, the average observer wouldn't say you were controlling the game at half-time. Why do you say it turned the game when you were a goal down already?"

Benítez: "If you see we created a couple of chances and we have plenty of possession in the first half I was convinced we could change the game."

Press: "Can you just explain what you said about the referee?"

Benítez: "Perfect. No mistakes."

Press: "But you say he made a mistake with the sending-off."

Benítez: "Perfect."

Press: "Don't you think Torres was fortunate to escape being penalised for that elbow?"

Benítez: "The referee was perfect."

Earlier this season Benitez was found guilty of misconduct but escaped FA punishment when he mimed removing his glasses to criticise another referee's performance.

[Thinkpad]

Look, it's over. It's finished, kaput, we tried it and him and it didn't work.

We've done five and a half years, and now it's all coming crashing down. The only thing up for discussion from here on in is when we switch the life support machine off, because the club is not going to come back to life under Benitez. The players know it and are already getting ready for the new man and the new broom, the fans who are not still deluding themselves know it, and all the opposition teams know it too. A team which has ceased to take direction from the manager (has been effectively "lost" by him) is directionless, passionless, listless and clueless. If we concede a goal we crumble, if we don't succeed early in games our confidence drains away like water dwon a plughole.

The only question is now, would we be better off having Kenny as a caretaker if he doesn't want it permanently, while we get a good replacement at the end of the season, or should we just pull the trigger and get the replacement in straight away. Either way lets put the man out of his misery, it's embarrassing to watch someone so devoid of inspiration desperately clinging onto power and trying in his drowning state to actually inspire others.

It's not going to happen. Ever. It's over, and it's time to go.

Hi Mick,
To be fair, he is trying to get himself sacked. I don't think he will resign. There is too much money involved. The most honourable thing is to "step down with support from the management" which is basically sacked with less money. But millions nonetheless, otherwise Rafa will still be here to pour misery onto us until the owners relent. Money is what stopping Rafa from doing the honourable thing... MONEY...

[Owzat]

This season's start is worse than in 04/05 and would be our worst ever 19 game start to a Premiership season if we lose the next game. While it might not quite be as bad as Houllier's eleven league games without a win, it is still too many defeats and not enough wins.

I think the problem is similar to one Houllier created for himself, getting carried away with his spending policy and buying expensive and ineffective c-r-a-p. Rafa has tried to fix problems at LM, LB and RM, but created a lack of options elsewhere and taken out the V12 engine of the team and replaced it with a wind-up Brazilian. We don't have two quality CFs to rub together, while the mancs may have lost 0-3 at craven cottage where we only lost 0-2, their striking options were Owen, Berbatov and Rooney. When our current system was working, it was great. But Rafa has no plan B and plan A depended very much on the likes of Kuyt, Torres, Benayoun, Gerrard and ALONSO.

Even if the owners gave Rafa £50m to spend in the January transfer window, I'd be more worried what he'd waste it on than looking forward to reinforcements. We'd probably go and buy Kenwyn Jones for £15m, or Adam Johnson for £17m, or pay over the odds for someone that would not make a big impact on the team. I think Citeh made a wise move yesterday, they assessed where Hughes was going and concluded it was nowhere fast. I know he got a lot of sympathy, especially from our ex-players on MOTD, but it isn't just a case of giving someone 'time'. He bought lots of strikers, but couldn't organise the defence so that they were scoring two goals and not winning. We've won 80% of the league games we've scored twice in :

2+ league goals 09/10

Liverpool : P10 W8 D2 L0 (Won 80.00%)
Man City : P11 W6 D4 L1 (Won 54.55%)

To lose one and draw three games where you've scored two or more goals is not clever. It would have been unbeaten but for the dubious stoppage time in their derby, but to draw near half wouldn't have been a lot better. The owners made a bold decision, maybe they can afford it, but they also know that they may well be better off financially in the short and long term. While Mancini has been criticised by some pundits for "lacking experience", he has won Italian cups with Fiorentina and Lazio, and two Italian cups and three Serie A titles with Inter Milan. Hardly "lacking experience", it's not as if any money argument will hold any water and Mancini should have enough respect within the game to land better CBs than Lescott and Toure for silly money. I think I'd rather have a man in charge who can go back to former club Inter than one who can dip into the Blackburn squad. Hughes was living proof that exposes one myth for what it is - a myth. That a manager who does well on limited resources at one club won't necessarly succeed at a big(ger) club with unlimited resources. Hughes proved the fatal flaw in the logic in not knowing the market, ending up paying over the odds for good to ordinary players. It just about got him a win yesterday over Sunderland, although the decision to get rid was clearly made at least a few days ago if not been in the pipeline for some time

[Ciggy]

Owzat I really cannot be bothered with stats, I dont need to see stats to see that we have been sh!te this season. Stats dont prove how many times kuyt gives the ball away, or how many times Lucas fouls.

[Owzat]

The Mancini move seems strange. As Lawro said on MOTD it's essentially another gamble. I was expecting a Hiddink or Mourinho to come in, someone that is used to being able to handle big egos.

I think Mancini has more chance of taking Citeh somewhere than Hughes ever had. I said a long time ago that Hughes wouldn't have the wherewithall in the big money spending circles, taking a manager like him, smeegel or Hodgson out of their comfort zone of "doing well on limited resources" and expecting them to compete with the very best isn't guaranteed success. There's a chance it will work, like with fergie, but for every fergie success there is a Hughes, Souness, Hoddle, etc etc.

As much as I don't rate him, I'd almost be prepared to give the leprechaun a go. I think he's as much chance of winning the league as Rafa, if not more. I shudder to think of all the ordinary English players he would try and buy, of his tactics and so on, but he's doing better with less at villa and we might have a chance of securing his services. That said, I have doubts he can step up to the mark. Even with more money at villa than he had a Leicester he's not shaken the top four up that much. Sure he's doing ok so far, but mainly because over-rated Hughes and Rafa have stumbled.

He signed Ashley Young for £9.65m, the kid can't get in the England side which says a lot. He went out and bought the likes of Petrov, Carew, Heskey, Luke Young, Cuellar, Reo-Coker and Shorey which is a rag tag band of decent but nothing special players. Move him to Anfield and I reckon he'd emulate Houllier and Benitez, get more money than he is really used to and go paying over the odds for players at villa he might have signed for less - and more suited to villa's current level than being title winners.

Go for Mourinho and you might find he won't know how to spend only £40m a summer on a squad that isn't already there or thereabouts in title terms. Might beg the question is/was Ranieri a better manager than a) Mourinho and b) Benitez. Ranieri laid a solid foundation, Mourinho added the finishing touches before his arrogance dismantled the squad and the mancs rose to the top again. He ran quickly to a club he knew he'd have better odds of winning leagues with again, hiding behind having the best team in the league once again.