Liverpool FC Forum

[Judge]

sack him

[Igor Zidane]

Don't know why i bother looking at this pile of shabite . Best fans in the weeeerrrrlllddddd    

[Benny The Noon]

So whats new ? anything different been said over the last 8 pages ?

[Igor Zidane]

One cheeky c,unt this journo , who the feck does he think he is.  Talk about rose tinted specs. Feckin joke.


http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/sport....verpool

Quote

    What's Rafa ever done for Liverpool?
     

    By Rory Smith

    Listening to 6-0-6, Radio 5Live’s bi-weekly Moron-a-thon, is a constant source of thought-provoking debate. Many of Britain’s great contemporary philosophers are regular contributors to the show, commendably guided to previously unimagined heights of perception by intellectual titans of our era, sophists like Spoony, Tim Lovejoy and Alan Green.

    To take an exchange at random, as I battled along the A50 – once in the Potteries, now, apparently, in deepest Siberia – on the way home from Stoke on Saturday, a Liverpool-supporting caller came on the airwaves. He was quite cross, it turned out, infuriated by his side’s draw at Reading, of the Championship, earlier in the evening.

    He opened with quite a gambit. “So Alan, do you think Rafa’s flying to Madrid to get van Nistelrooy, or do you think he’ll meet him on the motorway?” Not in this weather, son, not in this weather. It’s chaos on the roads. Mind you, Liverpool John Lennon’s had a bit of trouble with ice on the runway. Fair point. Nice you’re concerned about travel safety. “Because he needs him.”

    Sadly, at roughly the same time, Rafa Benitez – who, if he was a boxer, would have to be monikered “The Beleaguered” – was revealing he was not interested in the Dutch international forward, for a combination of reasons, including his wages, his injury record and his choice of prior employers. Still, our caller was not finished there. David Ngog, he claimed, would not get on Reading’s bench. Dirk Kuyt and Lucas are both rubbish. Benitez had to go. Besides, “what has Rafa ever done for Liverpool?”

    See? 6-0-6: it really makes you think. Well, caller, allow me to answer your question. What has the Champions League winner Rafael Benitez ever done for Liverpool? If he were to be sacked right now, as a growing proportion of Liverpool fans believe he should be, what would his legacy be? How would the obituaries read? Would posterity judge him kindly?

    Firstly, it is only fair to acknowledge that our caller, sword of truth in hand, did admit that he knew “he had won the Champions League and that” – which is possibly the greatest sentence ever uttered on national radio – so we can take silverware out of the equation. One Champions League, one FA Cup, one Community Shield and one European Super Cup can be put to one side. So should the runners-up medals, for last season’s Premier League, the Carling Cup in 2005, the World Club Cup the same year and the 2007 Champions League. Second is just first last, after all.

    To balance out our analysis, we should also avoid falling into the trap of judging Benitez purely on the travails of the current campaign (although, for the purposes of our hypothetical argument, we can assume that Benitez is dismissed with Liverpool in 7th place, four points behind Tottenham and 12 behind league leaders Chelsea). No manager should be judged on one season, but on the entirety of their reign.

    What has Benitez achieved in his Anfield lustrum, then? Well, his primary achievement would surely be re-establishing Liverpool as a credible European force. After the disastrous reign of Graeme Souness, the underachievement under Roy Evans and Gerard Houllier’s slow, occasionally painful rebuilding, Benitez took over a club in the shadows of its past as far as the continent was concerned. Two finals, one semi-final, one quarter final, one appearance in the last 16 later, despite one surprise group stage elimination, Liverpool can once again be counted among the Champions League’s elite.

    Domestically, too, Benitez has restored Liverpool’s faded grandeur. Not completely, of course, but certainly partially. At the start of his reign, in the aftermath of Houllier, qualification for the Champions League was the absolute maximum Liverpool could hope to achieve. Now it is the bare minimum. The perception that Liverpool have always battled for fourth under the Spaniard is wrong. Only in 2004/05 and the current season have Liverpool been involved in scraps for fourth place. In 2007/08, they finished fourth, but 11 points ahead of Everton. They were as many points off the top. They were only in a scrap for fourth if they were also in a scrap for the title.

    In 2006 and 2007, they finished third, once comfortably, once narrowly, and last season, as everyone seems to have forgotten, they came a close second. Liverpool are often seen as the poor relations of the Big Four. In one, economic sense, they are, but in terms of performance under Benitez that title probably goes to Arsenal. That Liverpool fans are so, rightly, disappointed with the anticlimax of the current season is evidence of how far Benitez has brought the club.

    That he has done so while overhauling his squad makes that work all the more impressive. Chelsea and Manchester United already had the core of their squads for the second half of the 2000s in place when Benitez landed at Anfield, whereas he has had to compete while restructuring completely. The side he took over – had he not sold anyone, other than the wantaway Michael Owen - boasted Jerzy Dudek in goal, Steve Finnan, Sami Hyypia, Jamie Carragher and John-Arne Riise in defence, a midfield of El-Hadji Diouf, Steven Gerrard, Dietmar Hamann and Harry Kewell and a strike force of Djibril Cisse and Milan Baros. The squad, packed with youngsters, included the likes of Djimi Traore, Igor Biscan, Emile Heskey, Salif Diao, Danny Murphy, Vladimir Smicer and Chris Kirkland.

    Contrast that with what Liverpool have after five years of Benitez. The best goalkeeper in England, Pepe Reina, and arguably the best right back, the Argentine national captain in midfield, and the world’s best striker. Gerrard and Carragher, of course, remain, while the likes of Daniel Agger, Yossi Benayoun and – who knows? – Alberto Aquilani are all upgrades on what went before. It is impossible to put a value on such things, but it is safe to say Liverpool’s playing staff are worth more than they were six years ago.

    That is not to say that Benitez is without fault, of course. He has made a number of misguided signings, most notably, and expensively, Andrea Dossena, Robbie Keane and Ryan Babel. He has a lack of both quality and quantity in his squad after countless signings, although, where Liverpool are concerned, that is highly likely to be as much the owners’ fault as it is the manager’s. Liverpool have seen more average full-backs in the last few years than most teams have in their histories. He still exhibits a reluctance to allow his team to express themselves. A lot of the football Liverpool play is not exactly aesthetically pleasing. Most crucially, he has seemingly failed to take that giant leap from near miss to direct hit in terms of the title.

    But none of that makes him a failure. Not an unqualified success, maybe, but far from a failure. Surrey has spoken, to Alan Green, and it has decided Benitez must go. Fine, if that is the way it has to be. But it seems fair to say that the future will be kinder to Benitez than the present.

[bigmick]

So whats new ? anything different been said over the last 8 pages ?

Yes. Even more people think the manager should go now. You used to be in the slight majority, you're now in the distinct mnority. Not that that makes any difference of course and nor should it, but this is a barometer thread and that's just about how the land lies as of now.

I would estimate that if we paid rafa off at the end of the season and installed Mourinho as manager, 60% would be in favour. If we did the same and put someone less controversial in charge (Hiddink or Rijjkjaard or someone similar), 80% would be in favour. King Kenny? 90%.

I think Rafa needs a miracle second half of the season to survive.

[Benny The Noon]

Thanks for the update mick - what was it like after the villa and wolves games and did it change dramatically after the reading game ?

[roberto green]

[Sir Roger]

One cheeky c,unt this journo , who the feck does he think he is.  Talk about rose tinted specs. Feckin joke.


http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/sport....verpool

Quote

    What's Rafa ever done for Liverpool?
     

    By Rory Smith

    Listening to 6-0-6, Radio 5Live’s bi-weekly Moron-a-thon, is a constant source of thought-provoking debate. Many of Britain’s great contemporary philosophers are regular contributors to the show, commendably guided to previously unimagined heights of perception by intellectual titans of our era, sophists like Spoony, Tim Lovejoy and Alan Green.

    To take an exchange at random, as I battled along the A50 – once in the Potteries, now, apparently, in deepest Siberia – on the way home from Stoke on Saturday, a Liverpool-supporting caller came on the airwaves. He was quite cross, it turned out, infuriated by his side’s draw at Reading, of the Championship, earlier in the evening.

    He opened with quite a gambit. “So Alan, do you think Rafa’s flying to Madrid to get van Nistelrooy, or do you think he’ll meet him on the motorway?” Not in this weather, son, not in this weather. It’s chaos on the roads. Mind you, Liverpool John Lennon’s had a bit of trouble with ice on the runway. Fair point. Nice you’re concerned about travel safety. “Because he needs him.”

    Sadly, at roughly the same time, Rafa Benitez – who, if he was a boxer, would have to be monikered “The Beleaguered” – was revealing he was not interested in the Dutch international forward, for a combination of reasons, including his wages, his injury record and his choice of prior employers. Still, our caller was not finished there. David Ngog, he claimed, would not get on Reading’s bench. Dirk Kuyt and Lucas are both rubbish. Benitez had to go. Besides, “what has Rafa ever done for Liverpool?”

    See? 6-0-6: it really makes you think. Well, caller, allow me to answer your question. What has the Champions League winner Rafael Benitez ever done for Liverpool? If he were to be sacked right now, as a growing proportion of Liverpool fans believe he should be, what would his legacy be? How would the obituaries read? Would posterity judge him kindly?

    Firstly, it is only fair to acknowledge that our caller, sword of truth in hand, did admit that he knew “he had won the Champions League and that” – which is possibly the greatest sentence ever uttered on national radio – so we can take silverware out of the equation. One Champions League, one FA Cup, one Community Shield and one European Super Cup can be put to one side. So should the runners-up medals, for last season’s Premier League, the Carling Cup in 2005, the World Club Cup the same year and the 2007 Champions League. Second is just first last, after all.

    To balance out our analysis, we should also avoid falling into the trap of judging Benitez purely on the travails of the current campaign (although, for the purposes of our hypothetical argument, we can assume that Benitez is dismissed with Liverpool in 7th place, four points behind Tottenham and 12 behind league leaders Chelsea). No manager should be judged on one season, but on the entirety of their reign.

    What has Benitez achieved in his Anfield lustrum, then? Well, his primary achievement would surely be re-establishing Liverpool as a credible European force. After the disastrous reign of Graeme Souness, the underachievement under Roy Evans and Gerard Houllier’s slow, occasionally painful rebuilding, Benitez took over a club in the shadows of its past as far as the continent was concerned. Two finals, one semi-final, one quarter final, one appearance in the last 16 later, despite one surprise group stage elimination, Liverpool can once again be counted among the Champions League’s elite.

    Domestically, too, Benitez has restored Liverpool’s faded grandeur. Not completely, of course, but certainly partially. At the start of his reign, in the aftermath of Houllier, qualification for the Champions League was the absolute maximum Liverpool could hope to achieve. Now it is the bare minimum. The perception that Liverpool have always battled for fourth under the Spaniard is wrong. Only in 2004/05 and the current season have Liverpool been involved in scraps for fourth place. In 2007/08, they finished fourth, but 11 points ahead of Everton. They were as many points off the top. They were only in a scrap for fourth if they were also in a scrap for the title.

    In 2006 and 2007, they finished third, once comfortably, once narrowly, and last season, as everyone seems to have forgotten, they came a close second. Liverpool are often seen as the poor relations of the Big Four. In one, economic sense, they are, but in terms of performance under Benitez that title probably goes to Arsenal. That Liverpool fans are so, rightly, disappointed with the anticlimax of the current season is evidence of how far Benitez has brought the club.

    That he has done so while overhauling his squad makes that work all the more impressive. Chelsea and Manchester United already had the core of their squads for the second half of the 2000s in place when Benitez landed at Anfield, whereas he has had to compete while restructuring completely. The side he took over – had he not sold anyone, other than the wantaway Michael Owen - boasted Jerzy Dudek in goal, Steve Finnan, Sami Hyypia, Jamie Carragher and John-Arne Riise in defence, a midfield of El-Hadji Diouf, Steven Gerrard, Dietmar Hamann and Harry Kewell and a strike force of Djibril Cisse and Milan Baros. The squad, packed with youngsters, included the likes of Djimi Traore, Igor Biscan, Emile Heskey, Salif Diao, Danny Murphy, Vladimir Smicer and Chris Kirkland.

    Contrast that with what Liverpool have after five years of Benitez. The best goalkeeper in England, Pepe Reina, and arguably the best right back, the Argentine national captain in midfield, and the world’s best striker. Gerrard and Carragher, of course, remain, while the likes of Daniel Agger, Yossi Benayoun and – who knows? – Alberto Aquilani are all upgrades on what went before. It is impossible to put a value on such things, but it is safe to say Liverpool’s playing staff are worth more than they were six years ago.

    That is not to say that Benitez is without fault, of course. He has made a number of misguided signings, most notably, and expensively, Andrea Dossena, Robbie Keane and Ryan Babel. He has a lack of both quality and quantity in his squad after countless signings, although, where Liverpool are concerned, that is highly likely to be as much the owners’ fault as it is the manager’s. Liverpool have seen more average full-backs in the last few years than most teams have in their histories. He still exhibits a reluctance to allow his team to express themselves. A lot of the football Liverpool play is not exactly aesthetically pleasing. Most crucially, he has seemingly failed to take that giant leap from near miss to direct hit in terms of the title.

    But none of that makes him a failure. Not an unqualified success, maybe, but far from a failure. Surrey has spoken, to Alan Green, and it has decided Benitez must go. Fine, if that is the way it has to be. But it seems fair to say that the future will be kinder to Benitez than the present.

You make some valid points but the message comes through loud and clear.
Rafa hasnt quite got what it takes to take us back to the top.
Close, but no cigar

[roberto green]

I think Rafa needs a miracle second half of the season to survive.

and it's not as he hasn't performed miracles before is it?

[Sir Roger]

I think Rafa needs a miracle second half of the season to survive.

and it's not as he hasn't performed miracles before is it?

Steady on mate
Rafa didnt perform any miracle
He was involved in one...

[roberto green]

I think Rafa needs a miracle second half of the season to survive.

and it's not as he hasn't performed miracles before is it?

Steady on mate
Rafa didnt perform any miracle
He was involved in one...

ok then he was the manager of our club who just happened to be luckly enough to be caught in a miracle.

[Igor Zidane]

I think Rafa needs a miracle second half of the season to survive.

and it's not as he hasn't performed miracles before is it?

Steady on mate
Rafa didnt perform any miracle
He was involved in one...

ok then he was the manager of our club who just happened to be luckly enough to be caught in a miracle.

pure luck was instanbul . everyone knows that lad.

[redbeergoggles]

One cheeky c,unt this journo , who the feck does he think he is.  Talk about rose tinted specs. Feckin joke.


http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/sport....verpool

Quote

    What's Rafa ever done for Liverpool?
     

    By Rory Smith

    Listening to 6-0-6, Radio 5Live’s bi-weekly Moron-a-thon, is a constant source of thought-provoking debate. Many of Britain’s great contemporary philosophers are regular contributors to the show, commendably guided to previously unimagined heights of perception by intellectual titans of our era, sophists like Spoony, Tim Lovejoy and Alan Green.

    To take an exchange at random, as I battled along the A50 – once in the Potteries, now, apparently, in deepest Siberia – on the way home from Stoke on Saturday, a Liverpool-supporting caller came on the airwaves. He was quite cross, it turned out, infuriated by his side’s draw at Reading, of the Championship, earlier in the evening.

    He opened with quite a gambit. “So Alan, do you think Rafa’s flying to Madrid to get van Nistelrooy, or do you think he’ll meet him on the motorway?” Not in this weather, son, not in this weather. It’s chaos on the roads. Mind you, Liverpool John Lennon’s had a bit of trouble with ice on the runway. Fair point. Nice you’re concerned about travel safety. “Because he needs him.”

    Sadly, at roughly the same time, Rafa Benitez – who, if he was a boxer, would have to be monikered “The Beleaguered” – was revealing he was not interested in the Dutch international forward, for a combination of reasons, including his wages, his injury record and his choice of prior employers. Still, our caller was not finished there. David Ngog, he claimed, would not get on Reading’s bench. Dirk Kuyt and Lucas are both rubbish. Benitez had to go. Besides, “what has Rafa ever done for Liverpool?”

    See? 6-0-6: it really makes you think. Well, caller, allow me to answer your question. What has the Champions League winner Rafael Benitez ever done for Liverpool? If he were to be sacked right now, as a growing proportion of Liverpool fans believe he should be, what would his legacy be? How would the obituaries read? Would posterity judge him kindly?

    Firstly, it is only fair to acknowledge that our caller, sword of truth in hand, did admit that he knew “he had won the Champions League and that” – which is possibly the greatest sentence ever uttered on national radio – so we can take silverware out of the equation. One Champions League, one FA Cup, one Community Shield and one European Super Cup can be put to one side. So should the runners-up medals, for last season’s Premier League, the Carling Cup in 2005, the World Club Cup the same year and the 2007 Champions League. Second is just first last, after all.

    To balance out our analysis, we should also avoid falling into the trap of judging Benitez purely on the travails of the current campaign (although, for the purposes of our hypothetical argument, we can assume that Benitez is dismissed with Liverpool in 7th place, four points behind Tottenham and 12 behind league leaders Chelsea). No manager should be judged on one season, but on the entirety of their reign.

    What has Benitez achieved in his Anfield lustrum, then? Well, his primary achievement would surely be re-establishing Liverpool as a credible European force. After the disastrous reign of Graeme Souness, the underachievement under Roy Evans and Gerard Houllier’s slow, occasionally painful rebuilding, Benitez took over a club in the shadows of its past as far as the continent was concerned. Two finals, one semi-final, one quarter final, one appearance in the last 16 later, despite one surprise group stage elimination, Liverpool can once again be counted among the Champions League’s elite.

    Domestically, too, Benitez has restored Liverpool’s faded grandeur. Not completely, of course, but certainly partially. At the start of his reign, in the aftermath of Houllier, qualification for the Champions League was the absolute maximum Liverpool could hope to achieve. Now it is the bare minimum. The perception that Liverpool have always battled for fourth under the Spaniard is wrong. Only in 2004/05 and the current season have Liverpool been involved in scraps for fourth place. In 2007/08, they finished fourth, but 11 points ahead of Everton. They were as many points off the top. They were only in a scrap for fourth if they were also in a scrap for the title.

    In 2006 and 2007, they finished third, once comfortably, once narrowly, and last season, as everyone seems to have forgotten, they came a close second. Liverpool are often seen as the poor relations of the Big Four. In one, economic sense, they are, but in terms of performance under Benitez that title probably goes to Arsenal. That Liverpool fans are so, rightly, disappointed with the anticlimax of the current season is evidence of how far Benitez has brought the club.

    That he has done so while overhauling his squad makes that work all the more impressive. Chelsea and Manchester United already had the core of their squads for the second half of the 2000s in place when Benitez landed at Anfield, whereas he has had to compete while restructuring completely. The side he took over – had he not sold anyone, other than the wantaway Michael Owen - boasted Jerzy Dudek in goal, Steve Finnan, Sami Hyypia, Jamie Carragher and John-Arne Riise in defence, a midfield of El-Hadji Diouf, Steven Gerrard, Dietmar Hamann and Harry Kewell and a strike force of Djibril Cisse and Milan Baros. The squad, packed with youngsters, included the likes of Djimi Traore, Igor Biscan, Emile Heskey, Salif Diao, Danny Murphy, Vladimir Smicer and Chris Kirkland.

    Contrast that with what Liverpool have after five years of Benitez. The best goalkeeper in England, Pepe Reina, and arguably the best right back, the Argentine national captain in midfield, and the world’s best striker. Gerrard and Carragher, of course, remain, while the likes of Daniel Agger, Yossi Benayoun and – who knows? – Alberto Aquilani are all upgrades on what went before. It is impossible to put a value on such things, but it is safe to say Liverpool’s playing staff are worth more than they were six years ago.

    That is not to say that Benitez is without fault, of course. He has made a number of misguided signings, most notably, and expensively, Andrea Dossena, Robbie Keane and Ryan Babel. He has a lack of both quality and quantity in his squad after countless signings, although, where Liverpool are concerned, that is highly likely to be as much the owners’ fault as it is the manager’s. Liverpool have seen more average full-backs in the last few years than most teams have in their histories. He still exhibits a reluctance to allow his team to express themselves. A lot of the football Liverpool play is not exactly aesthetically pleasing. Most crucially, he has seemingly failed to take that giant leap from near miss to direct hit in terms of the title.

    But none of that makes him a failure. Not an unqualified success, maybe, but far from a failure. Surrey has spoken, to Alan Green, and it has decided Benitez must go. Fine, if that is the way it has to be. But it seems fair to say that the future will be kinder to Benitez than the present.

The temerity of the man actually having the gall to support Benitez he should be exiled forthwith ,and his membership to the Journalists Ball should be revoked indefinitely.     

[NANNY RED]

So whats new ? anything different been said over the last 8 pages ?

Yes. Even more people think the manager should go now. You used to be in the slight majority, you're now in the distinct mnority. Not that that makes any difference of course and nor should it, but this is a barometer thread and that's just about how the land lies as of now.

I would estimate that if we paid rafa off at the end of the season and installed Mourinho as manager, 60% would be in favour. If we did the same and put someone less controversial in charge (Hiddink or Rijjkjaard or someone similar), 80% would be in favour. King Kenny? 90%.

I think Rafa needs a miracle second half of the season to survive.

Michael it might be the slight majority on the forums but its certainly aint at the match, The Anti rafalites are still the minority,

[roberto green]

I think Rafa needs a miracle second half of the season to survive.

and it's not as he hasn't performed miracles before is it?

Steady on mate
Rafa didnt perform any miracle
He was involved in one...

ok then he was the manager of our club who just happened to be luckly enough to be caught in a miracle.

pure luck was instanbul . everyone knows that lad.

as was the win in the quarters against Juventus, as was the semi-final against Chelsea.A pitty Rafa didn't do the lottery aswell.