Liverpool FC Forum

[RED BEERGOGGLES]

Dundalk done a thread a while back now on the backing or non backing of our manager and the majority wanted  Rafa to go but it wasn't by many.

What I want to know is, is there any of the members who wanted Rafa to stay back then that have now jumped ship and want him to go.I have the original Stay/Go/and undecided kindly pasted off of Dundalks Rafa Support Poll I.

So is there a change of minds, I can't see any members who wanted Rafa to go then reversing to stay now but it will be interesting to see if the patience has wavered thin for the members who wanted him to stay then.


Has my opinion changed?


Yes I am firmly in the undecided category now




STAY
Reg(New entry for stay)
Lee2k6
GOAT
ruskiy playmaker
kazza
RobinHood6969

Sabre
Penguins
NANNY RED
Benny The Noon
yolz
GRAHAM01
maguskwt
J*o*n*D*o*e
Kukilon
Sir Roger
JBG
Emerald Red
Number 9
Keris
kunilson
fivecups
Espionage
redhayesy
Milo the Monkey
Dex


GO
Dundalk
maypaxvobiscum
lakes10
s@int
ConnO'var
Kharhaz
bigmick
red_guy
shawnk
metalhead
killerp       
The_Rock
teamleader1
Owzat
club_Levis
Judge
LiverpoolMadman
mramo
Ben Patrick
Greavesie
tonyeh
Ola Mr Benitez
dawson99
Boocity
Lee J
Thinkpad
Rockthekop
Madmax
Toffeehater
Big Niall
Festy
Sarge
Kash_Mountain
Bad Bob
DAV
darwisigila
shitonutd78
Festy
The Good Yank
Bavlondon(changed from stay)
Andy g (new entry)

UNDECIDED
TheLad
SouthCoastShankly
Red H
Roberto Green(changed from stay)

Stay.. but for some reason my name wasn't added to the original list   

[Benny The Noon]

Proven track record in terms of transfers ?! Really ?! Proven by who ? Inwould suggest when he has had decent money to spend he has bought well bar the odd mistake - ie keane and dossena the main two . Most other buys have proved to be worthwhile

pepe
johnson
agger
skittles
Greek
aurelio
masher
momo
xabi
Garcia
torres
kuyt
even babel has had the odd impact on games but not enough

players that really bombed or didn't work out IMO

keane
dossena
pennant
morientis
that's the main four IMO

That's not including aqua who still need to judge and Lucas and ngog who are both young and still got time to succeed

I think your missing the point. IMO Rafa's failing has been the players he has sold.

Crouch - Ludicrous sale IMO, did nothing wrong and we sold to fund the Keane deal that didn't work out.
Keane - Given no real chance, why?
Bellamy - See above.
Alonso - Lucas is an adequate replacement isn't he?
Riise - Have him over Insua and Aurelio any day.

You try telling me with those players we wouldn't be stronger right now.

The reasons for them going have been mentioned many times but will go through them again

Crouch - wasn't willing to stay and sit behind torres as back up as he thought it would harm his England chnaces

Bellamy - smacked a team mate with a golf club and was sold to help fund the purchase of Torres

Xabi - wanted to leave and go back to Spain

Riise - was second choice behind aurelio and his form had falling by the wayside

[account deleted by request]

The reasons for them going have been mentioned many times but will go through them again

Crouch - wasn't willing to stay and sit behind torres as back up as he thought it would harm his England chnaces

Bellamy - smacked a team mate with a golf club and was sold to help fund the purchase of Torres

Xabi - wanted to leave and go back to Spain

Riise - was second choice behind aurelio and his form had falling by the wayside

You always seem to fail to mention that Crouch was also upset because he was dropped repeatedly the season before even when he was scoring goals for fun, and was dropped for the CL final (brought on with 10mins to go)

Xabi wanted to go because he had been hawked about like a second hand pair of shoes, AND HAS SAID HIMSELF THAT HE NEVER THOUGHT OF LEAVING UNTIL THAT HAPPENED. 

Riise made 44 appearances in his last season with us Aurelio made 29. Rafa's form has fallen by the wayside..... time for him to go too.

Then there was Hyypia..... LEFT OUT OF THE CL SQUAD ! No fecking wonder he wanted to leave.

You can try to shut your eyes to the truth mate, but you can't stop it biting you in the a$$.

[Big Niall]

he annoyed Alonso so we lost him and spent 20m on Aquilani who has provided nothing, he blew all his transfer money (18m) on a full back FFS, we have Lucas in the centre of the pitch.

The man is a bluffer.

[Benny The Noon]

The reasons for them going have been mentioned many times but will go through them again

Crouch - wasn't willing to stay and sit behind torres as back up as he thought it would harm his England chnaces

Bellamy - smacked a team mate with a golf club and was sold to help fund the purchase of Torres

Xabi - wanted to leave and go back to Spain

Riise - was second choice behind aurelio and his form had falling by the wayside

You always seem to fail to mention that Crouch was also upset because he was dropped repeatedly the season before even when he was scoring goals for fun, and was dropped for the CL final (brought on with 10mins to go)

Xabi wanted to go because he had been hawked about like a second hand pair of shoes, AND HAS SAID HIMSELF THAT HE NEVER THOUGHT OF LEAVING UNTIL THAT HAPPENED. 

Riise made 44 appearances in his last season with us Aurelio made 29. Rafa's form has fallen by the wayside..... time for him to go too.

Then there was Hyypia..... LEFT OUT OF THE CL SQUAD ! No fecking wonder he wanted to leave.

You can try to shut your eyes to the truth mate, but you can't stop it biting you in the a$$.

Crouch was also backed by the manager when he couldnt score for toffee for how many games in a row ?

Xabi before Rafa was looking to sell him had two very ordinary seasons with one of them been way below standard to the point where he was on the bench a fair amount of times and i remember many people were agreeing that maybe it was time for him to be sold and replaced .

Riise for me was way below his normal self for a number of seasons and since leaving hasnt exactly light up the place .

We had 4 cbs we only three available for the cl so i could see why sami was left out to enable him to play more in the prem where his great aerial ability would be better used .

[Greavesie]

he annoyed Alonso so we lost him and spent 20m on Aquilani who has provided nothing, he blew all his transfer money (18m) on a full back FFS, we have Lucas in the centre of the pitch.

The man is a bluffer.

Johnson was a good move IMO - provided something we needed and added a new dimension

Portsmouth owed us £7m so its a good job we did get him otherwise we'd have lost it altogether

Alonso - sold for £30m
Arbeloa - sold for £4m
             =£34m

Aqua - £20m
Johnson - £18m (Pompey owed £7m)
             = £33m (after the £7m is taken off

correct me if I'm wrong but does that suggest there was NO budget at all?

I may be missing some other business we did btw

[account deleted by request]

The reasons for them going have been mentioned many times but will go through them again

Crouch - wasn't willing to stay and sit behind torres as back up as he thought it would harm his England chnaces

Bellamy - smacked a team mate with a golf club and was sold to help fund the purchase of Torres

Xabi - wanted to leave and go back to Spain

Riise - was second choice behind aurelio and his form had falling by the wayside

You always seem to fail to mention that Crouch was also upset because he was dropped repeatedly the season before even when he was scoring goals for fun, and was dropped for the CL final (brought on with 10mins to go)

Xabi wanted to go because he had been hawked about like a second hand pair of shoes, AND HAS SAID HIMSELF THAT HE NEVER THOUGHT OF LEAVING UNTIL THAT HAPPENED. 

Riise made 44 appearances in his last season with us Aurelio made 29. Rafa's form has fallen by the wayside..... time for him to go too.

Then there was Hyypia..... LEFT OUT OF THE CL SQUAD ! No fecking wonder he wanted to leave.

You can try to shut your eyes to the truth mate, but you can't stop it biting you in the a$$.

Crouch was also backed by the manager when he couldnt score for toffee for how many games in a row ?

Xabi before Rafa was looking to sell him had two very ordinary seasons with one of them been way below standard to the point where he was on the bench a fair amount of times and i remember many people were agreeing that maybe it was time for him to be sold and replaced .

Riise for me was way below his normal self for a number of seasons and since leaving hasnt exactly light up the place .

We had 4 cbs we only three available for the cl so i could see why sami was left out to enable him to play more in the prem where his great aerial ability would be better used .

But that is not the REASON THEY LEFT IS IT, and that is what we are discussing.

Crouch didn't leave because he was backed by the manager, he left because the manager didn't play him, both in Torres first season AND the previous one when he was scoring for fun.

I agree Alonso had two poor seasons, but he left after his best season for us, because he felt unwanted after Rafa tried to sell him to anyone who would have him.....

Riise had a bad season? ..... whats he going to do now sell all the fecking team ?

You might see why Rafa would exclude Hyypia, I can see why Hyypia decided he wanted to go.

Arbeloa - don't sign a contract until mine is sorted out.... Arbeloa decided why bother I will just go, and we lost money on him, and it cost us £17million to replace him!


Shut your eyes, click your heels 3 times and keep saying "I believe, I believe"

[Benny The Noon]

Crouch was always going to be behind torres in the pecking order - he couldnt handle that and wanted to leave boo hoo crouch

Lets ask ourselves why all of a sudden Xabi had a very good season - looking for the best possible move for himself maybe ?

Arbeloa wanted to return to spain and eyes were opened up becuase of the interest of spain

Riise IMO had been below par for a quite a while just my opinion like

Sami wanted regular first team football - he wasnt going to get that with us was he

Or is it easier to just blame Rafa ?

Players like crouch and Xabi wouldnt be were they are now if Rafa hadnt of bought them in the first place - especially crouch .

[account deleted by request]

Lets ask ourselves why all of a sudden Xabi had a very good season - looking for the best possible move for himself maybe ?

Arbeloa wanted to return to spain and eyes were opened up becuase of the interest of spain

Riise IMO had been below par for a quite a while just my opinion like

Sami wanted regular first team football - he wasnt going to get that with us was he

Or is it easier to just blame Rafa ?

Players like crouch and Xabi wouldnt be were they are now if Rafa hadnt of bought them in the first place - especially crouch .

Crouch was always going to be behind torres in the pecking order - he couldnt handle that and wanted to leave boo hoo crouch

I think Crouch could handle being behind Torres.... being behind Kuyt on the other hand may have been too much for anyone to handle.

Lets ask ourselves why all of a sudden Xabi had a very good season - looking for the best possible move for himself maybe ?

So Rafa couldn't do his job and motivate Alonso ?

Riise IMO had been below par for a quite a while just my opinion like

Everyone is entitled to an opinion mate..... even when it is wrong 

Arbeloa wanted to return to spain and eyes were opened up becuase of the interest of spain

Arbeloa saw an oportunity BECAUSE Rafa let/told him run his contract down.

Sami wanted regular first team football - he wasnt going to get that with us was he

Sami said he was unhappy with being excluded from the CL squad and not playing as much as the previous season, he wasn't asking for regular first team football.

Or is it easier to just blame Rafa ?

If the cap fits.....

Players like crouch and Xabi wouldnt be were they are now if Rafa hadnt of bought them in the first place - especially crouch .

Crouch had played for England BEFORE joining us, and he is probably exactly where he would be now playing for Redknapp.

Alonso was already on Madrids radar well before he came to Anfield.

[Greavesie]

didn't Arbeloa want to go back to Spain for a while - it wasn't Rafa's 'fault' was it?

Why play the blame game with Arby?

[Benny The Noon]

Lets ask ourselves why all of a sudden Xabi had a very good season - looking for the best possible move for himself maybe ?

Arbeloa wanted to return to spain and eyes were opened up becuase of the interest of spain

Riise IMO had been below par for a quite a while just my opinion like

Sami wanted regular first team football - he wasnt going to get that with us was he

Or is it easier to just blame Rafa ?

Players like crouch and Xabi wouldnt be were they are now if Rafa hadnt of bought them in the first place - especially crouch .

Crouch was always going to be behind torres in the pecking order - he couldnt handle that and wanted to leave boo hoo crouch

I think Crouch could handle being behind Torres.... being behind Kuyt on the other hand may have been too much for anyone to handle.

Lets ask ourselves why all of a sudden Xabi had a very good season - looking for the best possible move for himself maybe ?

So Rafa couldn't do his job and motivate Alonso ?

Riise IMO had been below par for a quite a while just my opinion like

Everyone is entitled to an opinion mate..... even when it is wrong 

Arbeloa wanted to return to spain and eyes were opened up becuase of the interest of spain

Arbeloa saw an oportunity BECAUSE Rafa let/told him run his contract down.

Sami wanted regular first team football - he wasnt going to get that with us was he

Sami said he was unhappy with being excluded from the CL squad and not playing as much as the previous season, he wasn't asking for regular first team football.

Or is it easier to just blame Rafa ?

If the cap fits.....

Players like crouch and Xabi wouldnt be were they are now if Rafa hadnt of bought them in the first place - especially crouch .

Crouch had played for England BEFORE joining us, and he is probably exactly where he would be now playing for Redknapp.

Alonso was already on Madrids radar well before he came to Anfield.

Could crouch play right mid ? that was the position Kuyt was playing when crouch left .

Crouch got himself on the tour to USA not exactly the heighest of standard when they had Keiran Richardson playing cm for them - after joining us he went from that to the world cup

Oh so now its Rafa's fault had a poor season yet other didnt ? So does Rafa get the credit when players have a good season then ?

Did Rafa tell Arbeloa to run down his contract ? please show me the proof of that ?

Sami wasnt playing as much becuase he was getting murdered because of his lack of pace .

[account deleted by request]

didn't Arbeloa want to go back to Spain for a while - it wasn't Rafa's 'fault' was it?

Why play the blame game with Arby?

Arbeloa was one of 4 players who's contract was running out to be told by Rafa, not to sign a new contract until he had.

Kuyt and Insua eventually signed new deals, Arbeloa decided to look elsewhere and as his contract was running out we only got a small transfer fee for him.

[account deleted by request]

Could crouch play right mid ? that was the position Kuyt was playing when crouch left .

Yes but it wasn't where he was playing the season before or in the CL FINAL WAS IT. Which is when Crouch first refused a new contract.

Crouch got himself on the tour to USA not exactly the heighest of standard when they had Keiran Richardson playing cm for them - after joining us he went from that to the world cup

So in other words he carried on playing for England after he joined us.

Oh so now its Rafa's fault had a poor season yet other didnt ? So does Rafa get the credit when players have a good season then ?

Its his job to get the players playing to the best of their ability, from what you have said Alonso only started trying when he wanted  move..... so Rafa wasn't doing his job.

Did Rafa tell Arbeloa to run down his contract ? please show me the proof of that ?
 

I posted proof in the Mourinho thread and also started a thread about it..... try googling if you want more proof.

Sami wasnt playing as much becuase he was getting murdered because of his lack of pace .

Yeah I remember thinking when we beat the mancs 4-1 Sami is too slow 

[Benny The Noon]

Lets just agree to disagree to save us going round in circles- you have you opinion and i have mine

Noone will know the absolute truth unless we ask the players themselves .

[Emerald Red]

Stay, for the simple reason is that I'd fear for this club if we got a Martin O'Niel or god forbid an Alex mcLeish.