Liverpool FC Forum

[teamleader1]

im guessing you were the same with souness and evans and gh yet were praising and cheering rafa when winning cl or beating all the best teams in europe and in the prem .

ffs sing another song!

it so happens that I had time for evans who served up better football than GH and Rafa
Souness I think went to early, GH just lost the plot and was taking the club backwards and needed to go
And that is exactly where Rafa is right now'
Now if your happy seeing things going backwards then will you still be happy when we are a mid table side?

Wake up - Rafas taking us nowhere fast

[Kharhaz]

The biggest mistake Rafa made was winning the European Cup in his first season. That raised everyones expectations. And 5 years later, here is what we understand, aside from this season, we are usually a force in Europe. My biggest gripe with Rafa is his attitude towards the league. It isnt working. His methods, his man management, his selections, it just hits me as he talks the talk, and thats it. He seems to put Europe first.

As A Liverpool supporter, here is what is on my mind. Before the season began. United have levelled with us with regards to league titles. We need to get our act together. Sod europe, sod the FA cup sod the league cup all concentration and effort must be put into the league. What has happened? we are putting up with the most god awful season we have had since, well, since souness. Many people mention houillier, but at least under houillier the players were under pressure to perform. Under rafa, with his contract that could cost the club a princely sum to get rid, there isnt much hope. Whats the worst that can happen to our players if they under perform? Well with it being rafa another run of 5 games at least. Its depressing. By all means show faith in rafa but understand, from a supporters point of view, he has shown nothing of the sort of commitment to supporters that the supporters have shown rafa. If he did, he would put aside his stubborness and put the club first. He has had our support, now its time for him to return the compliment. Quit the negative football, keep the favourites of the fans and not his personal preference, and get us back on track. Its not a lot to ask is it?

[Benny The Noon]

So let me get this right to make sure I fully understand what your saying

Your saying the fans are committed to rafa so he should show the same to us - please point out the commitment to rafa shown on here as fromwhat I can see there is plenty of people wanting him sacked or did you mean the commiment that he was shown when we were winning and now we are not doing so well the tide changes - so that's not commitment through thick and thin and through the good times and bad times and people only willing to support manager and players when winning ?!

Also you mention he should listen to the fans and play their favourite players and not the managers ?! Which fans does he ask then or listen too ?! The ones on the forum that constantly slag off players like kuyt or the ones in the stand that sing his praises when they see how much heart and passion he is showing for the team ? Should he listen to online polls from all those fully qualified managers on forums or phone in's before selecting his team just so that he can please certain people ? It's amazing how many fully qualified expert football managers/coaches don't find work yet get themselves onto forums/phone in's

[DrPepe]

it so happens that I had time for evans who served up better football than GH and Rafa Souness I think went to early

I admit iv never heard that particular argument put forward for Souness - would you care to elaborate ? 

[Octsky]

So let me get this right to make sure I fully understand what your saying

Your saying the fans are committed to rafa so he should show the same to us - please point out the commitment to rafa shown on here as fromwhat I can see there is plenty of people wanting him sacked or did you mean the commiment that he was shown when we were winning and now we are not doing so well the tide changes - so that's not commitment through thick and thin and through the good times and bad times and people only willing to support manager and players when winning ?!

Also you mention he should listen to the fans and play their favourite players and not the managers ?! Which fans does he ask then or listen too ?! The ones on the forum that constantly slag off players like kuyt or the ones in the stand that sing his praises when they see how much heart and passion he is showing for the team ? Should he listen to online polls from all those fully qualified managers on forums or phone in's before selecting his team just so that he can please certain people ? It's amazing how many fully qualified expert football managers/coaches don't find work yet get themselves onto forums/phone in's

Benny i admired your undying support for Club and manager.
but when is the time where enough is enough for you?

Relegation? or consecutive mid-table finish?

just curious.

[Benny The Noon]

Yes two seasons of mid table finishes is not good enough but we haven't even had one yet

[dawson99]

Yes two seasons of mid table finishes is not good enough but we haven't even had one yet

So you think Rafa is still the man with the tactisc and decisions to take us forward?

[DrPepe]

Yes two seasons of mid table finishes is not good enough but we haven't even had one yet

So you think Rafa is still the man with the tactisc and decisions to take us forward?

my opinion is that it would take an absolute miracle worker to win the league (i presume that is what everyone is getting at when they use quotes like "take us forward"?) under the current setup of owners/finance.

until the financial plug was pulled 3 or 4 transfer windows ago we were able to make pretty good progress, which is why i'm happy for benitez to ride out this season, and continue in his job. But in the context of a league containing super-rich owners and behemoths like the mancs , selling players to pay off debts is never going to result in sustained improvements on the pitch

[dawson99]

Yes two seasons of mid table finishes is not good enough but we haven't even had one yet

So you think Rafa is still the man with the tactisc and decisions to take us forward?

my opinion is that it would take an absolute miracle worker to win the league (i presume that is what everyone is getting at when they use quotes like "take us forward"?) under the current setup of owners/finance.

until the financial plug was pulled 3 or 4 transfer windows ago we were able to make pretty good progress, which is why i'm happy for benitez to ride out this season, and continue in his job. But in the context of a league containing super-rich owners and behemoths like the mancs , selling players to pay off debts is never going to result in sustained improvements on the pitch

bu would it take an abslute miracle worker to get our squad into a decent 11 that plays good football?

[Benny The Noon]

Yes two seasons of mid table finishes is not good enough but we haven't even had one yet

So you think Rafa is still the man with the tactisc and decisions to take us forward?

Yep Rafa still has my support and still believe in him and trust the team and club in his care

[Ben Patrick]

Yes two seasons of mid table finishes is not good enough but we haven't even had one yet

So you think Rafa is still the man with the tactisc and decisions to take us forward?

my opinion is that it would take an absolute miracle worker to win the league (i presume that is what everyone is getting at when they use quotes like "take us forward"?) under the current setup of owners/finance.

until the financial plug was pulled 3 or 4 transfer windows ago we were able to make pretty good progress, which is why i'm happy for benitez to ride out this season, and continue in his job. But in the context of a league containing super-rich owners and behemoths like the mancs , selling players to pay off debts is never going to result in sustained improvements on the pitch

Well how did we come within a few points last season if this is the case ?

Its an absolutely rubbish argument.

Like someone has stated above, we DID NOT have to sell Alonso. He was under contract and Rafa could have said (as with Mascherano) - he is not for sale at any price.

Yes we got alot of money for him, but then we wasted a large chunk on Aquilani.
Now even if someone replies with - well Rafa didnt get all he was promised and might have signed someone else if he did.

Well again, he didnt have to sell a key player. It was the managers choice.
He sold one of the most influential players in our team after united had just lost tevez and ronaldo.
If it was me i would have just said sorry Xabi your going nowhere you signed a 3 year contract and we want you here next season to help win the league that we almost did last season.
We were so close to united and he has effectively ripped it up and started again.

As far as errors go its reminiscent of Houlliers rejecting anelka and signing diouf diao and cheyrou.
From so close to right back to the start, to me like playing snakes and ladders and getting a couple of squares from the end and then landing on the longest snake on the board.

Only snakes and ladders is pot luck, this seasons woes for me have been based on really poor decision making.

[Rush Job]

Yes two seasons of mid table finishes is not good enough but we haven't even had one yet

So you think Rafa is still the man with the tactisc and decisions to take us forward?

my opinion is that it would take an absolute miracle worker to win the league (i presume that is what everyone is getting at when they use quotes like "take us forward"?) under the current setup of owners/finance.

until the financial plug was pulled 3 or 4 transfer windows ago we were able to make pretty good progress, which is why i'm happy for benitez to ride out this season, and continue in his job. But in the context of a league containing super-rich owners and behemoths like the mancs , selling players to pay off debts is never going to result in sustained improvements on the pitch

Well how did we come within a few points last season if this is the case ?

Its an absolutely rubbish argument.

How did we come within a few points with a manager as sh!t as rafa?
Thats right when ever he wins or does well its because he was lucky.... right?

[DrPepe]

Yes two seasons of mid table finishes is not good enough but we haven't even had one yet

So you think Rafa is still the man with the tactisc and decisions to take us forward?

my opinion is that it would take an absolute miracle worker to win the league (i presume that is what everyone is getting at when they use quotes like "take us forward"?) under the current setup of owners/finance.

until the financial plug was pulled 3 or 4 transfer windows ago we were able to make pretty good progress, which is why i'm happy for benitez to ride out this season, and continue in his job. But in the context of a league containing super-rich owners and behemoths like the mancs , selling players to pay off debts is never going to result in sustained improvements on the pitch

Well how did we come within a few points last season if this is the case ?

Its an absolutely rubbish argument.

Like someone has stated above, we DID NOT have to sell Alonso. He was under contract and Rafa could have said (as with Mascherano) - he is not for sale at any price.

Yes we got alot of money for him, but then we wasted a large chunk on Aquilani.
Now even if someone replies with - well Rafa didnt get all he was promised and might have signed someone else if he did.

Well again, he didnt have to sell a key player. It was the managers choice.
He sold one of the most influential players in our team after united had just lost tevez and ronaldo.
If it was me i would have just said sorry Xabi your going nowhere you signed a 3 year contract and we want you here next season to help win the league that we almost did last season.
We were so close to united and he has effectively ripped it up and started again.

As far as errors go its reminiscent of Houlliers rejecting anelka and signing diouf diao and cheyrou.
From so close to right back to the start, to me like playing snakes and ladders and getting a couple of squares from the end and then landing on the longest snake on the board.

Only snakes and ladders is pot luck, this seasons woes for me have been based on really poor decision making.

Its an absolutely rubbish argument.

thanks for the supportive comments 


Isn't it fairly likely we came within a few points last season because we were able to build a squad that had played together a few years and we had added extra squad quality consistently

when you change  the business plan to balance the books (minus10-20% for the OD, of course) then things fall apart...

or are you honestly suggesting that we can compete with the big boys using the current financial model?

*for the record, the "keeping alonso" argument is fairly well worn - face facts , the guy left us after an offer to double his wages playing at the most illustrious club in world football. Every player has a price, and RM met it.

Although You can certainly justify the arguement that in the short term, rafa made the wrong purchase in Aquilani

[JohnBull]

"How did we come within a few points with a manager as sh!t as rafa?
Thats right when ever he wins or does well its because he was lucky.... right? "

Out of our 18 illustrious titles not all of them were because we stormed away with the championship. I can remember a few which were lost to us rather than us winning them.
Last season was one which it was offered to us and we buggered it up.
A "couple of points" is as far as a mile when you're second. Celebrating this 4th place competition is a joke. If EUFA lets the top 10 in are we going to be cheering coming 10th on the off chance of another Istambul ?
Ask yourself "just how much would I risk on Raffa winning a Premiership title with Liverpool ?" Your family ? Your house ? your car ? - how about next weeks wages ? How about £100 ?

[teamleader1]

it so happens that I had time for evans who served up better football than GH and Rafa Souness I think went to early

I admit iv never heard that particular argument put forward for Souness - would you care to elaborate ? 

Its only my opinion but I thought he had more to give us than he actually delivered
To be honest he made his own problems with his big 'I AM' attitude
I don't think he ever understood that not everyone has his passion and commitment.

Maybe I just overlooked his faults because he was one of our all time greats who gave 110% in a red shirt