Liverpool FC Forum

[Igor Zidane]

By all means back Benitez, not a problemo with any of that. Wish/hope/believe all you like (and naturally as I think we are stuck with him for a while yet I hope you're right), but it DOES NOT MEAN if somebody has concluded that we could do better with a different manager that they either support the owners or are by definition fecking stupid/not a real fan etc etc.

Mick as you know i am a Rafa supporter the man has eaten away at me heart cant help it. who knows maybe he is gonna break it an ill finaly put me hands up in submission, there are loads inside the ground an the pubs before an after the game though who dont back Benitez but there priority same as mine is getting rid of the other two first. My two best mates at the match have slated Rafa for months now , not good enough, has to go . They are die hard members of SOS since it began.so because they want rid of Rafa that dosnt make sense in what you have just said, about being againt the manager your in bed with the Americans.

Its the abuse i cant stomach Mick that the man takes , it not only turns my stomach to hear our own fans doing this but even lads who want Benitez gone, It just gets me back up even when he has been at fault an i know in me heart hes to blame a mist comes over an the faults get put to the back of my head and ill defend him against this abuse , Why because i respect the man. And he should never come in for some of the abuse that i have heard. Sometimes i do wish he would just go,and leave us all to get on with it , Maybe its better for the sanity of everyone , But whoever comes in is still gonna have the same problems while the other two are here and it wont be long before that manager comes in for the same abuse, Sadly that is the some of the type of support we have attracted to the club, I cant say anything honestly than that .

Nan, the abuse he has taken is out of order, but thats why hes on 4 million a year... every player manager linesman and ref gets abuse, unfortunately its all part of the game

From the opposition daws yeh fair enough , but not from your own supporters. 

[dawson99]

By all means back Benitez, not a problemo with any of that. Wish/hope/believe all you like (and naturally as I think we are stuck with him for a while yet I hope you're right), but it DOES NOT MEAN if somebody has concluded that we could do better with a different manager that they either support the owners or are by definition fecking stupid/not a real fan etc etc.

Mick as you know i am a Rafa supporter the man has eaten away at me heart cant help it. who knows maybe he is gonna break it an ill finaly put me hands up in submission, there are loads inside the ground an the pubs before an after the game though who dont back Benitez but there priority same as mine is getting rid of the other two first. My two best mates at the match have slated Rafa for months now , not good enough, has to go . They are die hard members of SOS since it began.so because they want rid of Rafa that dosnt make sense in what you have just said, about being againt the manager your in bed with the Americans.

Its the abuse i cant stomach Mick that the man takes , it not only turns my stomach to hear our own fans doing this but even lads who want Benitez gone, It just gets me back up even when he has been at fault an i know in me heart hes to blame a mist comes over an the faults get put to the back of my head and ill defend him against this abuse , Why because i respect the man. And he should never come in for some of the abuse that i have heard. Sometimes i do wish he would just go,and leave us all to get on with it , Maybe its better for the sanity of everyone , But whoever comes in is still gonna have the same problems while the other two are here and it wont be long before that manager comes in for the same abuse, Sadly that is the some of the type of support we have attracted to the club, I cant say anything honestly than that .

Nan, the abuse he has taken is out of order, but thats why hes on 4 million a year... every player manager linesman and ref gets abuse, unfortunately its all part of the game

From the opposition daws yeh fair enough , but not from your own supporters. 

well...yeah thats true lol

[maguskwt]

Sometimes i do wish he would just go,and leave us all to get on with it , Maybe its better for the sanity of everyone , But whoever comes in is still gonna have the same problems while the other two are here and it wont be long before that manager comes in for the same abuse, Sadly that is the some of the type of support we have attracted to the club, I cant say anything honestly than that .

spot on Nan...

I've never called the manager any names, and very few of the people who think we need a change have...

  ... Mick... abuse doesn't mean just name calling... it includes ridiculous accusations as well...

[RED BEERGOGGLES]

I am still firmly  behind Benitez ,I firmly believe he is the only Class manager we can procure right now ,and if he leaves then the situation is only going to become more desperate, especially given the financial restraints ,I'm sorry if this seriously sticks in the craw of some posters ,but its my opinion and I am entitled to it, as they're entitled to theirs
I do however believe the Owners have always been the main issue  and the Club simply will not move on, until we can survey the wreckage in the cold light of day, without these harpies casting their shadow over the truth . 

The truth will out soon enough
in the meantime this will be my last post for a few days .... Sabbatical needed
Happy posting people

[Teshie]

first piece of transfer rumour that actually seems legit?

"Liverpool boss Rafa Benitez plans to raise £35m by selling off some of his slops - if he stays at Anfield. Alberto Aquilani will be put up for sale after just one season, and following out of the exit door will be Ryan Babel, David Ngog and Nabil el Zhar." (The People)

[LiverpoolMadman]

first piece of transfer rumour that actually seems legit?

"Liverpool boss Rafa Benitez plans to raise £35m by selling off some of his slops - if he stays at Anfield. Alberto Aquilani will be put up for sale after just one season, and following out of the exit door will be Ryan Babel, David Ngog and Nabil el Zhar." (The People)

HOw about lucas and kuyt ? Is he going to selling these 2 slops too ?

[Teshie]

i dunno, i'm posting rumours from another website lol. No doubt lakes will be in here soon with some info about those 2 dropkicks

[tubby]

first piece of transfer rumour that actually seems legit?

"Liverpool boss Rafa Benitez plans to raise £35m by selling off some of his slops - if he stays at Anfield. Alberto Aquilani will be put up for sale after just one season, and following out of the exit door will be Ryan Babel, David Ngog and Nabil el Zhar." (The People)

HOw about lucas and kuyt ? Is he going to selling these 2 slops too ?

Doubt it mate. Those 2 are usually the first 2 on the teamsheet. Anyway Lucas has improved this season and Kuyt always scores in big games. As long as we get some better players in around them it will be fine.

[bigmick]

I've never called the manager any names, and very few of the people who think we need a change have...

  ... Mick... abuse doesn't mean just name calling... it includes ridiculous accusations as well...

"Ridiculous accusations"? I'll tell you what's ridiculous when it comes to the Benitez discussions. It's ridiculous when whenever we win a match it's down to manegerial genius, but whenever we lose one it's down to the owners. It's ridiculous that we can finish seventh in the league just above Everton and it's down to the owners. It's ridiculous when we get beat at Home by Reading in the FA Cup and some people come on here and talk about transfer spend. It's ridiculous that people bleat about transfer spend when we've outspent Man Utd and Arsenal since Benitez has been manager. It's ridiculous when we sign two 20 million pound footballers who don't get in the team and people say it isn't the managers fault. It's ridiculous that we sign a striker for 20 million quid, sell him for 12 and people say we lost 1 million. It's ridiculous that we sign a 20 million pound midfielder but because the initial downpayment was 5 million, that's the only figure people want to include. It's ridiculous that people used to refer to the seven years it took Ferguson to win the title at Man Utd, but now they don't mention it anymore. It's ridiculous that people try and pretend that pre season games are irrelevent, that players decide on the spur of the moment who is taking set pieces, that Benitez is an inspiring man manager. It's ridiculous that any former player, however much of a legend he may be, is called absolutely all sorts if he doesn't buy into the Rafa Krishna sect. It's ridiculous also that if you don't buy in your not a real fan, but if you do and you have a street party that we made seventh, you are. It's ridiculous that the manager can't see that the Lucas/Masherano axis is doomed to failure ("so you know better than Rafa then?" ANSWER on this subject yes I do obviously), and it's ridiculous that people try and defend such incompetence.   

I have never known in my life a subject be a catalyst for so many absolutely ridiculous excuses as the Benitez tenure at Anfield. If it's not beachalls, it's refs, or the owners or the media or fecking Parry.

There is much ridiculousness in the Benitez debate, hence why I don't really bother any more. Some people would deny the sky is bluwe on a sunny day if it served their ends, it's fecking ridiculous alright, as is being called a c... and not a real fan and being told to feck off by someone who's bought in.

[Rockthekop]

first piece of transfer rumour that actually seems legit?

"Liverpool boss Rafa Benitez plans to raise £35m by selling off some of his slops - if he stays at Anfield. Alberto Aquilani will be put up for sale after just one season, and following out of the exit door will be Ryan Babel, David Ngog and Nabil el Zhar." (The People)

HOw about lucas and kuyt ? Is he going to selling these 2 slops too ?

Doubt it mate. Those 2 are usually the first 2 on the teamsheet. Anyway Lucas has improved this season and Kuyt always scores in big games. As long as we get some better players in around them it will be fine.

You are actually seriously suggesting we build a team around Kuyt and Lucas? 

[zarababe]

OMG Thanks Nan this article so sums up how I feel ... what a fu'ukin disaster ay.. I culd chin that Moores if I see him, he sold us out and now we are rock bottom.. and still Benitez is thinking about stayin.. God this man has my utter respect, but he always has :

In six months, the Benitez era will seem like a golden age

In the dressing room and on the balance sheet, Liverpool have fallen over the edge, writes Dion Fanning


"If Liverpool thought this season was bad, the summer may have them looking back wistfully. The release of their latest financial figures might shake some sense into those who think that Rafael Benitez's possible departure will make things better. Liverpool, as the figures show, are in great peril. In six months, the Benitez era will seem like a golden age.

The idea that Jose Mourinho can be parachuted in to save the club should crash up against the reality of these numbers. For the second successive year, the auditors, KPMG, expressed "material uncertainty" about Liverpool's ability to continue as a going concern.

The new chairman Martin Broughton has had to appear before the Premier League to give a guarantee, which had to be backed up by the banks, that Liverpool will be able to fulfil their fixtures next season (anyone who saw Liverpool's performance in Portsmouth this season may question if that guarantee was given last season). Yet some people cling to the view that Liverpool need simply to sign a new full-back. There is no quick-fix for Liverpool. There may be no slow-fix either.

This weekend, it does not seem as inevitable that Benitez will leave. At this stage, the decay has affected him so profoundly that it would be no bad thing for him to go. At the very least, his departure would allow those who criticise his management to understand slowly what he was up against. Alan Curbishley won't be able to do much better.

On Friday, an internet campaign launched by a Liverpool forum resulted in journalists receiving hundreds of emails from supporters backing Benitez. It is customary for their loyalty to be applauded slightly patronisingly at this point before asking at what other club would a manager be backed in this way?

Benitez earned their loyalty by providing as magical a night as any Liverpool fan has experienced in Istanbul, defying Chelsea in the semi-final and challenging for the title last season. He earned their loyalty by being misunderstood, as Liverpool people feel they are, and he earned their devotion by rumbling Tom Hicks and George Gillett.

So when they chant his name or send an email, they are not displaying blind devotion. They are acknowledging the complications of managing a club that has no future until things change and recognising that Benitez has, imperfectly, managed until this season somehow to keep Liverpool competitive.

Once Liverpool's players started spinning about the race for fourth and once Benitez started talking about how the value of the club had increased during his time at Anfield, then things were destined to unravel. That was not Benitez's racket. At his best, he felt no need to point to his record because he didn't respect the people who were looking it up.

They were wrong about everything: wrong about his transfer record, wrong about rotation, wrong about how often he rested Torres. Yet they never shut up and they wore Benitez down. The reasons Rafael Benitez is no longer the right manager for Liverpool are exactly the same as the reasons he was such a successful manager of Liverpool. His stubbornness allowed him to ignore the voices that told him he should buy Michael Owen or play Steven Gerrard in his "favoured" central midfield position.

Then he became distracted and demented by the financial position and gaining control. His attempt to sell Xabi Alonso was a disaster -- not because Alonso was in sparkling form and it made no sense -- but because his return to form was achieved not by coaxing the best from him but by instilling a sense of resentment that made his departure inevitable.

One of the key tenets of Benitez's philosophy is that he does not get close to the players. There is nothing wrong with that but it works best if the manager does not hold resentments if the players react to that distance, as Alonso did. The sadness in the fracturing of the relationship with the player once known as 'Son of Rafa' was compounded when, having taken the biggest risk of his career at Liverpool, Benitez barely saw any of the transfer fee.

Instead, he was forced to gamble on a fragile player like Alberto Aquilani and the pressure was on once it quickly became apparent that the title would not be achieved as many had expected. Benitez had been exhausted by the battles he had to fight. He was contaminated by the coming down the line and the players appear to have had enough.

Just as his success masked the dysfunction of the regime he was employed by, his failures have hidden them too. Benitez took on Hicks and Gillett and paid the price: not the loss of his job but the loss of his vision of what the team should be. Like all obsessives, he is always at risk of losing touch with reality.

Liverpool, out of the top four and with their most glorious footballer Fernando Torres agonising over his future, have more chance of sinking further next season than they do of reclaiming a Champions League place.

Torres is not bigger than the club, the old cliché that may yet be used by the accountants this summer after he makes an impact on the balance sheet, but there is a strong case to be made that it stands or falls with him right now. For many reasons, Torres is no ordinary footballer. He is loyal and curious about his surroundings. His talent ensured he would be a favourite at Liverpool, but his heart quickly bound him to Anfield. His disillusionment, not about last season, but about the future, is likely to see him leave in the summer. Even if the banks were to allow Liverpool to replace him, he is irreplaceable.

Broughton has announced that Liverpool do not need to sell him to service their debts but when £85m has been paid in interest since 2007, the needs of the money men can sometimes become insatiable.

Torres will have his choices and he may decide, despite their failure to qualify for the Champions League, that Manchester City are the best option. Certainly, they can offer a challenge in the future that Liverpool cannot. If they could persuade Torres then it would be a spectacular announcement of their intentions which could speak even louder than qualification for the Champions League.

Liverpool are being squeezed by teams who have been allowed to build and clubs that have not been so badly run. Tottenham's progress has been through shrewd investment and the acquisition of a squad that Liverpool can only envy. Peter Crouch might have stayed at Liverpool if he had been offered a contract that would have made his time on the bench bearable. Instead, he ended up at Spurs, along with Robbie Keane, who played no more time at Tottenham than he did at Liverpool but nobody seemed to notice before he headed off to Glasgow.

City and Spurs are ready to replace Liverpool. They have energy, ambition and new ideas. Liverpool are just trying to make it through the night. They have been ripped from their community by the decision of David Moores to sell the club to Hicks and Gillett. The desire of supporters to see the club return to ownership they understand has now been replaced by the pressing urgency to find somebody to rescue them.

There was a time when Moores and Rick Parry (who received a pay-off of £3m, the latest accounts revealed) searched the world looking for new investment. Moores could have borrowed on the club to build a new stadium instead of selling to the Americans, who were borrowing on the club to buy it, and Liverpool would be in a better position today. Instead, he made a rash decision and a poor business one for him and for Liverpool.

Those were the good days when the world felt it could trust people like Hicks and Gillett. Because there were so many of them, they must be doing something right.

Last week's accounts showed Liverpool's loss was 34 per cent worse than 2008's figure as £40.1m went on servicing the club's £351.4m debt to Royal Bank of Scotland and US firm Wachovia. These loans have been extended until the sale but the club is now, according to KPMG, "dependent on short-term facility extensions". They are living hand to mouth. And yet they claim that Torres doesn't need to be sold. They do not need to sell him, much as a wino doesn't need a bed for the night.

It is worth noting that the accounts were taken in a good year for Liverpool, a run in the Champions League and second in the league. Next year, if there is a next year, things will be worse.

But still they blame the manager. Benitez is said to be torn about his departure. A number of senior players would be happy to see him go and a number would prefer if he stayed. His management style is undoubtedly wearing on players but Liverpool aren't faced with too many alternatives.

Few managers will be tempted in the summer to join a club which may not still have owners and has no money. Martin O'Neill is the only candidate who appeals, especially if he feels he has done as much as he can at Aston Villa. Liverpool may not end up like Leeds but there is every indication they could end up like Newcastle, who, unlike Liverpool, had a stadium that gave them the revenue to compete. Liverpool have nothing, not even freedom, as that isn't afforded to the indebted.

The days of standing on the edge of the abyss are over, Liverpool have fallen over the edge. Benitez seems reluctant not to fall with them. He staked his reputation on the club and he found that even when it plummeted, he didn't want to give it all up.

He has been promised riches and finances at Juventus but still he hesitates. He is bound by something more. He is a flawed hero but history will see his management as no less heroic for the reality that it was doomed."

[kazza]

I've never called the manager any names, and very few of the people who think we need a change have...

  ... Mick... abuse doesn't mean just name calling... it includes ridiculous accusations as well...

"Ridiculous accusations"? I'll tell you what's ridiculous when it comes to the Benitez discussions. It's ridiculous when whenever we win a match it's down to manegerial genius, but whenever we lose one it's down to the owners.

"Ridiculous accusations"?

I think your first statement sums up the point nicely, ridiculous accusations (do you even read what you write?)

It is not that you think we should change our manager because that is your right, it is your relentless little jabs all season (and last) at the manager in your typically sarcastic know it all way, then only to paint yourself as the victim when people object.

You talk about not debating it anymore yet you keep going on about it. You love the attention MicK!

[bigmick]

I wonder if rafa not saluting the fans today was because he was annoyed with the performance of the players. Once they've gone you can't get them back unfortunately.

[zarababe]

once who have gone?

[bigmick]

once who have gone?

The players Zara. Once they don't want to play for you anymore (they've been "lost" to use the common vernacular) it is impossible for a manager to "find" them again.

If you are of the opinion that Rafa has lost the goodwill of the dressing room (and I have been of that opinion for a long time now) then it is only ever going to go one way. We've proved that this season.