Liverpool FC Forum

[Ben Patrick]

So many similarities with the previous manager for me.
Rafa has made some top signings in Reina Alonso, Masher, Torres and many more decent ones.
But he has got things horribly wrong the last 2 summers and ruined all of his own good work.
The Keane, Aquilani and Dossena signings have really hurt us and our squad now is so weak in certain areas that for a man so far into a job there really is no excuse.
We have played about half a season with David Ngog upfront ON HIS OWN.
The fans that are behind Rafa will look back at this in a few years when he is gone and be more truthful about the situation.
Its ridiculous and inexcusable for us to be playing that lad on his own upfront, and alienating our best player by having Lucas and Mascherano behind him.

[zarababe]

They're doing it cos they're counting using the 'anti rafa' calculator

And lakesy Rafa's bad rep with players - are you having a spooky moment lar ... Torres, Masch, Reina, Gerrard to name a 'selection' of our spine have all improved awesomely under his management and credit him with their success

And yeaR ON YEAR WHAT HAS HIS REAL-TIME BUDGET BEEN ?

so come on what prices D Villa - can we afford him.. ? Ciould we have afforded him 2 seasons ago ? So budget matters

2007/08 Rafa spent 70 mil


from RAWK   (THE COMMENTS ARE NOT BY ME)
£5m - Lucas Leiva: Brazilian player of the year when signed. Could still go either way but a lot to prove.
Undisclosed - Krisztian Nemeth: Promising youngster currently out on loan in Athens.
£270,000 - Mikel San Jose Dominguez: Youngester plays in the reserves.
£1.8m - Sebastian Leto: Left winger signing but refused a work permit. Sold for £3m.
£20.2m - Fernando Torres: Bargain of the century
Free - Andriy Voronin: Free transfer to strengthen the squad. Plays well in Germany, garbage over here.
£5m - Yossi Benayoun: Took a while to settle but now a key player. Superb signing and an absolute bargain.
£11.5m - Ryan Babel: Highly rated dutch international. Absolute waste of space. Bad signing on reflection, but nobody knew how he'd turn out. Still got potential but he can't be arsed.
Undisclosed - Charles Itandje: Back up keeper signed for peanuts. Now released.
£1.3m - Emiliano Insua: Youngster who is now a full Argentinian international and massive potential. Bargain.
£6.5m - Martin Skrtel: Been off form this season so far, but brilliant last year and a good signing for the money.
£18.6m - Javier Mascherano: Completion of loan deal

Total bought: £70.7m

Cool so what are we complaining ABOUT HERE:

5m - Lucas Leiva: Brazilian player of the year when signed. Could still go either way but a lot to prove. - not an over payment then
Undisclosed - Krisztian Nemeth: Promising youngster currently out on loan in Athens.
£270,000 - Mikel San Jose Dominguez: Youngester plays in the reserves.
£1.8m - Sebastian Leto: Left winger signing but refused a work permit. Sold for £3m. - profit
£20.2m - Fernando Torres: Bargain of the century - but people still frowned at the price tag and the owners showed there intention early on - even though they borrowed the money, so tha banks could 're-possess' him
Free - Andriy Voronin: Free transfer to strengthen the squad. Plays well in Germany, garbage over here.
£5m - Yossi Benayoun: Took a while to settle but now a key player. Superb signing and an absolute bargain. - Yep
£11.5m - Ryan Babel: Highly rated dutch international. Absolute waste of space. Bad signing on reflection, but nobody knew how he'd turn out. Still got potential but he can't be arsed. - so took a chance and not woked out
Undisclosed - Charles Itandje: Back up keeper signed for peanuts. Now released.
£1.3m - Emiliano Insua: Youngster who is now a full Argentinian international and massive potential. Bargain. so good signining
£6.5m - Martin Skrtel: Been off form this season so far, but brilliant last year and a good signing for the money. so good signining

£18.6m - Javier Mascherano: Completion of loan deal - Great signing 'No'

So here we are - some good some bad but tmostly good and you can't argue with all of those ay.

But What price D Villa Lakesy - can we buy him?

he is almost 30 and it seem there are some long term ankle worries over him but i say his price right now is about 5omil

OK - so in this market 50 m for a 30 year old 'class striker' - and we couldn't afford him 2 seasons ago neither.

So what of the list above - would you begrudge Rafa that list?

[lakes10]

OK - so in this market 50 m for a 30 year old 'class striker' - and we couldn't afford him 2 seasons ago neither.

So what of the list above - would you begrudge Rafa that list?[/quote]
should it not be more the case of who you would give uo to get him?

£11.5m - Ryan Babel:
£1.3m - Emiliano Insua:
£6.5m - Martin Skrtel
£5m - Yossi Benayoun:

and due to the other player he got that year he could have sold some of the he got the year before to make up the money.

[andy_g]

really, who gives a shíte about how much the players actually cost? yes, amongst the legions of averageness he has bought (and kept) some excellent players, but what has he done with them? with the players at his disposal - torres, gerrard, mascherano, johnson, aquilani, reina, carragher, agger - he really should have done better regardless of their previous or current worth. i'm not convinced that if he was given another 200 million over the summer that we would play more effective or attractive football next season.

[zarababe]

so as the game divides opinion so do manager's and their tatics.. Rafa should have improved on last year defo, at least be challenging - has had the worst working environment under H&G to operate, in and is still being coveted by the big clubs - so what does it say about Rafa ?

He is respected and people believe in him - so get the ownership isue sorted and see what happens - workinbg for a bad employer affects us all

[zarababe]

OK - so in this market 50 m for a 30 year old 'class striker' - and we couldn't afford him 2 seasons ago neither.

So what of the list above - would you begrudge Rafa that list?

should it not be more the case of who you would give uo to get him?

£11.5m - Ryan Babel:
£1.3m - Emiliano Insua:
£6.5m - Martin Skrtel
£5m - Yossi Benayoun:

and due to the other player he got that year he could have sold some of the he got the year before to make up the money.[/quote]
Oh so by selling these the H&G won't look to service their debt 

[stmichael]

So many similarities with the previous manager for me.

Are you serious?

The manager has had a bad season, but to compare him to Houllier is insane imo. What I had to endure as a fan towards the end of Houllier's reign was a million miles worse than anything I've seen under Rafa.

[laza]

Houllier won lots of trophies, and it was 9 out of 11 of his team which won the Champions League.

So does that mean if Porto prince Jose came here next season and won the title with 9 out of 11 Rafa players it would be Rafa's title?

[Ben Patrick]

So many similarities with the previous manager for me.

Are you serious?

The manager has had a bad season, but to compare him to Houllier is insane imo. What I had to endure as a fan towards the end of Houllier's reign was a million miles worse than anything I've seen under Rafa.

Deadly serious.

And i think in a couple of years you will agree.

this season has been shocking, beyond belief.
We got battered in the champions league group stage losing half of our games.
We got knocked out of the FA cup at home to a side that where 5th from bottom of the championship at the time.

We have lost a disastrous amount of league games and the game against Portsomuth away was just as bad as any game under Houllier (and there were some awful ones at the end of his tenure)

So yes mate, i am serious.

[fivecups]

I think it's about time we did this one again. Since Rafa has been in charge he has outaspent Man Utd and Arsenal. It's a fact.

Definitely correct, net spend, gross, whatever.

What is also important is that we've spent considerably less that City, Chelsea or Spurs and about the same as Villa over the same period. I think below also demonstrates the genius of Arsene Wenger.



2004-2009/10  Sales   Gross spend   Net Spend
1 MC 96,689,600 359,626,750 -262,937,150
2 CH 160,413,600 416,764,750 -256,351,150
3 TH 181,137,250 375,660,100 -194,522,850
4 LV 184,100,060 313,954,620 -129,854,560
5 AV 52,438,800 160,805,200 -108,366,400
6 MU 176,113,200 263,796,000 -87,682,800
7 AR 154,450,600 135,676,050 18,774,550

[zarababe]

So many similarities with the previous manager for me.

Are you serious?

The manager has had a bad season, but to compare him to Houllier is insane imo. What I had to endure as a fan towards the end of Houllier's reign was a million miles worse than anything I've seen under Rafa.

Deadly serious.

And i think in a couple of years you will agree.

this season has been shocking, beyond belief.
We got battered in the champions league group stage losing half of our games.
We got knocked out of the FA cup at home to a side that where 5th from bottom of the championship at the time.

We have lost a disastrous amount of league games and the game against Portsomuth away was just as bad as any game under Houllier (and there were some awful ones at the end of his tenure)

So yes mate, i am serious.

Here have a tissue - you'll feel better next season

The spine of this team is awesome - was it under Houllier - NON

This has been a bad season - but we have qualified for CL footie regularly UNDER RAFA - AND MAY STILL DO SO THIS SEASON.

BUT IF WE DON'T... WE WILL AGAIN.

[fivecups]

from RAWK   (THE COMMENTS ARE NOT BY ME)
£5m - Lucas Leiva: Brazilian player of the year when signed. Could still go either way but a lot to prove.
Undisclosed - Krisztian Nemeth: Promising youngster currently out on loan in Athens.
£270,000 - Mikel San Jose Dominguez: Youngester plays in the reserves.
£1.8m - Sebastian Leto: Left winger signing but refused a work permit. Sold for £3m.
£20.2m - Fernando Torres: Bargain of the century
Free - Andriy Voronin: Free transfer to strengthen the squad. Plays well in Germany, garbage over here.
£5m - Yossi Benayoun: Took a while to settle but now a key player. Superb signing and an absolute bargain.
£11.5m - Ryan Babel: Highly rated dutch international. Absolute waste of space. Bad signing on reflection, but nobody knew how he'd turn out. Still got potential but he can't be arsed.
Undisclosed - Charles Itandje: Back up keeper signed for peanuts. Now released.
£1.3m - Emiliano Insua: Youngster who is now a full Argentinian international and massive potential. Bargain.
£6.5m - Martin Skrtel: Been off form this season so far, but brilliant last year and a good signing for the money.
£18.6m - Javier Mascherano: Completion of loan deal

Total bought: £70.7m

This is actually the period where Rafa did relatively well in the transfer market. I think £ 70 million for those players was good work. The problems started immediately after Mascherano was signed.

£75 million for these is without doubt bad business:

Philipp Degen Dortmund Free* 03.07.2008
Andrea Dossena Udinese £7,000,000 04.07.2008
Diego Cavalieri Palmeiras £3,500,000 11.07.2008
David N'Gog Paris St Germain £1,500,000 24.07.2008
Robbie Keane Tottenham £19,000,000 28.07.2008
Albert Riera Espanyol £8,000,000 31.08.2008
Glen Johnson Portsmouth £17,500,000 26.06.2009
Alberto Aquilani AS Roma £17,100,000* 07.08.2009
Sotirios Kyrgiakos AEK Athens £2,000,000 21.08.2009
Daniel Ayala Sevilla £160,000 17.09.2009
Maxi Rodriguez Atletico Madrid Free 12.01.2010

[stmichael]

So many similarities with the previous manager for me.

Are you serious?

The manager has had a bad season, but to compare him to Houllier is insane imo. What I had to endure as a fan towards the end of Houllier's reign was a million miles worse than anything I've seen under Rafa.

Deadly serious.

And i think in a couple of years you will agree.

this season has been shocking, beyond belief.
We got battered in the champions league group stage losing half of our games.
We got knocked out of the FA cup at home to a side that where 5th from bottom of the championship at the time.

We have lost a disastrous amount of league games and the game against Portsomuth away was just as bad as any game under Houllier (and there were some awful ones at the end of his tenure)

So yes mate, i am serious.

it's been a bad season. get over it. do you want us to be like Chelsea and get rid of a manager off the back of one bad season.

Under Houllier we had more than one season of dross. 02/03 and 03/04 was absolute torture. People call us a 2 man team now (they are clueless in all fairness) but back then Gerrard dragged us into the top 4 single handed.

You can't seriously compare the players we have now with the likes of Diouf, Diao, Cheyrou and the likes.

[Ben Patrick]

The spine of the team was very good under Houllier.

I actually am sick of people trying to make out we were sh!te under him.
Like with Rafa he started very well and people's opinion of him are clouded by the last couple of seasons.
It will be the same with Rafa once he has gone.
I had my season ticket in the treble season and it was the best season i can remember as a red.
3 trophies and 4th place still.

We consistently go out of cups under Rafa that we should be aiming to win.
The FA cup defeat to Barnsley when united were already out was one of those occasions. Wasted opportunities under Rafa all of the time.

You may think its a one of this season but i dont, we are not winning trophies under this manager and we did under the previous one regulaly.

[Ben Patrick]

So many similarities with the previous manager for me.

Are you serious?

The manager has had a bad season, but to compare him to Houllier is insane imo. What I had to endure as a fan towards the end of Houllier's reign was a million miles worse than anything I've seen under Rafa.

Deadly serious.

And i think in a couple of years you will agree.

this season has been shocking, beyond belief.
We got battered in the champions league group stage losing half of our games.
We got knocked out of the FA cup at home to a side that where 5th from bottom of the championship at the time.

We have lost a disastrous amount of league games and the game against Portsomuth away was just as bad as any game under Houllier (and there were some awful ones at the end of his tenure)

So yes mate, i am serious.

it's been a bad season. get over it. do you want us to be like Chelsea and get rid of a manager off the back of one bad season.

Under Houllier we had more than one season of dross. 02/03 and 03/04 was absolute torture. People call us a 2 man team now (they are clueless in all fairness) but back then Gerrard dragged us into the top 4 single handed.

You can't seriously compare the players we have now with the likes of Diouf, Diao, Cheyrou and the likes.

Before that summer - when he signed those players you just mentioned we had consistently improved each season and where winning things.

He fecked up royally not signing Anelka and bringing that pile of sh!te in, and it cost him his job. We were going backwards rapidly.

I see the same sort of thing occurring now, the Aquilani signing (given the player we lost and who he was replacing) is the worst up in our modern transfer history.
We went from being challengers for the league to one struggling to get into next seasons europa league.