Liverpool FC Forum

[tubby]

From 30 points of the pace in season 1 to only a few last season isn't good enough? It takes time Saint. Does Rafas superior record in his first 200 games to Wenger, Fergus and even Paisley not mean anything to you?

  better record than Paisley   

1975-76 League Championship
1975-76 UEFA Cup
1976-77 FA Community Shield
1976-77 League Championship
1976-77 European Cup
1977-78 UEFA Super Cup
1977-78 FA Community Shield
1977-78 European Cup
1978-79 League Championship
1979-80 FA Community Shield
1979-80 League Championship

4 league titles, 2 european cups and a uefa cup in his first 6 seasons mate

Bob's record in his first 6 years, and don't give me any guff about win percentages as the points system was different then and a draw away was a good result in those days. 

You count trophies mate ....nothing else matters.

He has spent almost £200million to take us from 82 points in 2006 to 86 points in 2009. Look on the bright side if we need 90 points to win the league we are only another £200million short 

Did you even read what I said? Average during first 200 games. All of a sudden you go posting league titles getting high and mighty. Is there even any point in continuing as you only choose to believe what you want and skew the rest so that you don't believe it.

[tubby]

30 points off the pace in season one is an interesting one for a couple of reasons Bav. Firstly we had no business finishing quite so far behind, a fact often overlooked. We concentrated quite hard on the Champions League that season for obvious reasons, and we also were in the middle of the biggest rotational experiment English football had ever seen. You're right though, we have definately improved from then, as you would expect for a team which has spent as much money as we have and which has included Steven Gerrard at his peak. The question is not whether or not we have improved, but have we improved enough, and will Rafa ever win us the title?

Now people often quote Rafa's first season as the benchmark, simply because it was such an awful effort in the league and it makes it look like we're coming on in leaps and bounds. The reality is different though. Rafa took over a ramshackle lot from Houllier true enough, but Houllier managed to get them into fourth place the previous season even without Alonso, Garcia and the rest. Rafa of course couldn't get us into the top four, but we were a bit better than that I think. We actually got the same number of points as Bolton in Rafa's first season. Nobody will ever convince me that Rafa's team was not a better side than "Big Sam yeah's " outfit. We finished three points ahead of Middlesboro'. It truly was an absolutely awful effort, and lest we ever forget and decide to return to a mass stylothon it is written in stone in the form of the league table for all to see. That wasn't an indication of how bad the team were, it was an indication of how wrong we got it IMHO.

The following season we definately improved and got ourselves to within nine points of the winners (Chelsea). Crucially, we were only one point behind the Mancs at that point (after Rafa's second season). We also won the FA Cup. In the following two seasons we won feck all and finioshed a mile back. Last season we did better, still winning feck all but getting close in the league.

This season it's looking distinctly possible we'll win feck all again, and I don't think many people can see us getting as close in the league as we did last season and we may even miss out on the top four. It is even concieveable that after six years of the plan, the Rafalution, we could be right back where we started from except for the fact that in all probability we won't win the Champions League this season.

Now I know I'm not going to convince you or anyone else Bav, and I'm not trying. I'm simply pointing out that those who have doubts have extremely good reasons for doing so.

There are probably as many reason for him to stay though Mick. For what it's worth id go out on a limb and say the majority of fans still back Rafa 100%. Had he been allowed to get all his first choice targets things might have been different. The way the money was spent was not in a way such that he was given that total figure at the start ect... Most of our signings are in bargain basement so there were bound to be players that didnt work out hence more chop and change.

[account deleted by request]

From 30 points of the pace in season 1 to only a few last season isn't good enough? It takes time Saint. Does Rafas superior record in his first 200 games to Wenger, Fergus and even Paisley not mean anything to you?

  better record than Paisley   

1975-76 League Championship
1975-76 UEFA Cup
1976-77 FA Community Shield
1976-77 League Championship
1976-77 European Cup
1977-78 UEFA Super Cup
1977-78 FA Community Shield
1977-78 European Cup
1978-79 League Championship
1979-80 FA Community Shield
1979-80 League Championship

4 league titles, 2 european cups and a uefa cup in his first 6 seasons mate

Bob's record in his first 6 years, and don't give me any guff about win percentages as the points system was different then and a draw away was a good result in those days. 

You count trophies mate ....nothing else matters.

He has spent almost £200million to take us from 82 points in 2006 to 86 points in 2009. Look on the bright side if we need 90 points to win the league we are only another £200million short 

Did you even read what I said? Average during first 200 games. All of a sudden you go posting league titles getting high and mighty. Is there even any point in continuing as you only choose to believe what you want and skew the rest so that you don't believe it.

The game was completely different then Bav.
So how can you compare their performances other than by the trophies they won.

I couldn't care less if we won the league with the lowest ever win percentage and the lowest ever points. ITS WINNING THE FECKING THING THAT COUNTS. You get nothing for hard lines, or how many shots on goal we had. 

I think it shows just how desperate people are when they have to start talking about "win percentages" rather than TROPHIES WON.

Edited as points system wasn't different, just 42 games played instead of 38.

[tubby]

From 30 points of the pace in season 1 to only a few last season isn't good enough? It takes time Saint. Does Rafas superior record in his first 200 games to Wenger, Fergus and even Paisley not mean anything to you?

  better record than Paisley   

1975-76 League Championship
1975-76 UEFA Cup
1976-77 FA Community Shield
1976-77 League Championship
1976-77 European Cup
1977-78 UEFA Super Cup
1977-78 FA Community Shield
1977-78 European Cup
1978-79 League Championship
1979-80 FA Community Shield
1979-80 League Championship

4 league titles, 2 european cups and a uefa cup in his first 6 seasons mate

Bob's record in his first 6 years, and don't give me any guff about win percentages as the points system was different then and a draw away was a good result in those days. 

You count trophies mate ....nothing else matters.

He has spent almost £200million to take us from 82 points in 2006 to 86 points in 2009. Look on the bright side if we need 90 points to win the league we are only another £200million short 

Did you even read what I said? Average during first 200 games. All of a sudden you go posting league titles getting high and mighty. Is there even any point in continuing as you only choose to believe what you want and skew the rest so that you don't believe it.

Did you read what I put :- "the points system was different then and a draw away was a good result in those days. "

So how can you compare their performances other than by the trophies they won.

I couldn't care less if we won the league with the lowest ever win percentage and the lowest ever points. ITS WINNING THE FECKING THING THAT COUNTS. You get nothing for hard lines, or how many shots on goal we had. 

I think it shows just how desperate people are when they have to start talking about "win percentages" rather than TROPHIES WON.

The point is not that the win average means he is doing fine but that we are moving in the right direction.

[account deleted by request]

The point is not that the win average means he is doing fine but that we are moving in the right direction.

How are we moving in the right direction ? We will get less points than we got last season, we are already out of the league cup, we are almost out of the CL so unless we win the FA CUP WE WILL HAVE GONE BACKWARDS.

[bigmick]

The point is not that the win average means he is doing fine but that we are moving in the right direction.

How are we moving in the right direction ? We will get less points than we got last season, we are already out of the league cup, we are almost out of the CL so unless we win the FA CUP WE WILL HAVE GONE BACKWARDS.

Get ready, the answer will be that we haven't gone backwards at all, we've actually stood still and the other teams have improved past us. It will be that our our owners who didn't allow us to spend 100 million quid in the Summer, or the injuries and the beach balls.

[big al]

Saint your right.  Points mean nothing unless a trophy or title go with them.  Also back then you had to win 3 games to get 6 points it only takes two wins today.  I understand your point Bavlondon but it only translates into 2 trophies. No competition Bob Paisley puts him to shame.

[bigmick]

Anyways Russia's out of the World Cup. Add Hiddink to the immediately available list.

Cue the "but we couldn't afford him/he wouldn't come if he didn't have six squillion to spend/he wouldn't be prepared to be a back up".

Actually forget the last one he's not a player is he, the other two will apply anyway no doubt.

[account deleted by request]

Anyways Russia's out of the World Cup. Add Hiddink to the immediately available list.

Cue the "but we couldn't afford him/he wouldn't come if he didn't have six squillion to spend/he wouldn't be prepared to be a back up".

Actually forget the last one he's not a player is he, the other two will apply anyway no doubt.

I was looking at Hiddink's record Mick, its not bad mate.

PSV

Eredivisie
Winner (6): 1986–87, 1987–88, 1988–89, 2002–03, 2004–05, 2005–06
KNVB Cup
Winner (4): 1988, 1989, 1990, 2005
European Cup
Winner (1): 1988
Real Madrid

Intercontinental Cup
Winner (1): 1998
Chelsea

FA Cup
Winner (1): 2009   

Maybe he needs his own thread 

[tubby]

Anyways Russia's out of the World Cup. Add Hiddink to the immediately available list.

Cue the "but we couldn't afford him/he wouldn't come if he didn't have six squillion to spend/he wouldn't be prepared to be a back up".

Actually forget the last one he's not a player is he, the other two will apply anyway no doubt.

Hiddink would never come to us. He is too close with Abramovich.

Saint the reason things have gone tits up this season is we have had so many injuries and due to our financial contraints we have been unable to build any strength in depth so a series of major injuries could have always rocked our season. We got relatively lucky with that last year.

[account deleted by request]

Liverpool FC owners are bit part players in our problems
Nov 18 2009 by Our Correspondent, Liverpool Daily Post
AS I suspected, the international break has proved a period for calm reflection on the current state of Liverpool FC.

Freed from having to deal with the daily bulletins over the condition of Gerrard’s groin and Fernando’s hernia, and the fevered speculation over the identity of Rafa’s pending replacement, I’ve felt able to bring a little perspective to our predicament, and take a more considered view as to our season’s prospects.

And the inevitable conclusion from this period of meditation is this: we’re stuffed.

Our two declared priorities for the season are no more than the dust on Ryan Babel’s left boot. And I need someone, or something, to blame.

The Fans. Nope, can’t pin any of the blame on us. We didn’t ask for this, we didn’t bring it upon ourselves. We’re not Geordies. We’re not baying for blood; we’re not booing our own team (with a couple of minor exceptions). Relative blame: 0%

The Owners. First bit of controversy. I know many of you would have them out on their own at the top of this particular chart, but you can’t blame the hideous leveraged debt or the lack of a new stadium for our current predicament, it goes deeper than that. And haven’t Torres, Mascherano, Johnson and Aquilani arrived under their stewardship? That’s £75m of anyone’s money. But they should still have coughed up a bit more in the close season. Relative blame: 15%

The Fates. Normally I’m a great believer in making your own luck. But occasionally things conspire against you so determinedly that you feel powerless in the face of their unpredictable might. The beach balls, the dodgy sendings-off, the inevitable punishment of isolated mistakes, would all have you doubting the continuing effectiveness of your lucky pants, or the scarf you haven’t washed since 1965. But the injuries, oh sweet Lord, the injuries. So many, and to key players to boot. And the most critical incurred while away on international duty. It’d try the faith of a St John. Relative blame: 20%.

The Players. Yep, we’re starting to get serious now. Whether it’s the collective sulk they indulged in after the sale of Alonso (read Steven Gerrard in Four-Four-Two if you doubt this); the poor form of those we normally look to for strength in adversity (yes defence I’m talking about you); or the failure of our fringe players to grasp the opportunity handed to them, there’s not much to be proud of so far. Relative blame: 25%.

The Manager. Whichever way you look at it, Rafa’s failure to compile a strong squad, rather than just a first team, over five years has to be the chief reason for our predicament: it may have taken a perverse combination of the previous contributors to expose it, but now it’s there for all to see. Rafa has to up his game, and use his undoubted tactical acumen to get us through this difficult period before next season’s a write-off as well.  Relative blame: 40%.

LINK

[Igor Zidane]

Anyways Russia's out of the World Cup. Add Hiddink to the immediately available list.

Cue the "but we couldn't afford him/he wouldn't come if he didn't have six squillion to spend/he wouldn't be prepared to be a back up".

Actually forget the last one he's not a player is he, the other two will apply anyway no doubt.

Trapattoni aswell 

[Igor Zidane]

Anyways Russia's out of the World Cup. Add Hiddink to the immediately available list.

Cue the "but we couldn't afford him/he wouldn't come if he didn't have six squillion to spend/he wouldn't be prepared to be a back up".

Actually forget the last one he's not a player is he, the other two will apply anyway no doubt.

I was looking at Hiddink's record Mick, its not bad mate.

PSV

Eredivisie
Winner (6): 1986–87, 1987–88, 1988–89, 2002–03, 2004–05, 2005–06
KNVB Cup
Winner (4): 1988, 1989, 1990, 2005
European Cup
Winner (1): 1988
Real Madrid

Intercontinental Cup
Winner (1): 1998
Chelsea

FA Cup
Winner (1): 2009   

Maybe he needs his own thread 

Can't argue with his record saint . If rafa was to pop his cloggs tomorrow . He's the man i'd want , he's a visionary like rafa , oh and he believes in rotation . Oh and dear god he feckin hates zonal marking with a passion . 

[NANNY RED]

Anyways Russia's out of the World Cup. Add Hiddink to the immediately available list.

Cue the "but we couldn't afford him/he wouldn't come if he didn't have six squillion to spend/he wouldn't be prepared to be a back up".

Actually forget the last one he's not a player is he, the other two will apply anyway no doubt.

Trapattoni aswell 

I prefer someone a bit more LIPPI in the TRAP

[made in UK]

Why is everyone winking?