Liverpool FC Forum

[NANNY RED]

It's funny isn't it?

No matter what we do on the pitch, there'll still be some miserable sat in the corner telling us that's it's not good enough. If a striker scores a hat trick and then skins 6 men before putting a shot over the bar, he's there telling us how St John wouldn't have missed it, you know the type, you see them all the time. 'It wasn't like that in my day, he'd have skinned 15 men (the manager and the subs) in my day and then popped it in the bottom corner.' There's one who sits behind me, no matter what they do, they'll still get the 'Yer yer' line every time they have the temerity to mishit the thing. Do they do it on purpose? Yeah that's it, they see 40000 people turning up every week, paying their wages and decide 'You know what, that in the green on the front row 's an ugly , I'm gonna make him miserable, I'm gonna pass the ball to Christopher Samba when I could give it to the skipper and he could put us 1-0 up and net me an extra few hundred quid in bonuses.' off.

If we don't win, we're . If we win we're boss. Take that Beşiktaş game for example, mad goal sends us 1-0 down, we get beat 2-1. They don't get lucky we win 1-0, play exactly the same and it's pats on the back all round. 'Nice one lads, good game, good game.'

The last two games, have seen us play 2 of the 4 most difficult teams in the league, and guess what, we didn't lose, or even look like we were going going to lose. We played Arsenal (or Brazil 1970 MK II as I'm calling them henceforth) and we lead them for 75 minutes. I feel quite honoured, Gordon Banks sat there and probably thought, 'I tell you what, if we'd have played like this in Mexico 37 years ago, I wouldn't have needed to make that boss save. Pele's got all on this Adebayor and Carlos Alberto would struggle to get into this side.' Seriously though, you'd think they were Brazil in 1970, with added Cruyff and co. Who gives a , we were beating them for 75 minutes. Best team ever. Innit.

Why slag players off? It's genuinely something I've never understood, yeah, I've probably said a few things about Sissoko in the past that might have been over the top (nothing against the lad, but I don't see how he gets in the team)(and maybe Riise as well), but seriously, players don't do it deliberately. Why slag them off? We see the faults, the manager see the faults. Do you think he stands there and says 'I tell you what, this is brilliant, we've come away from home and drawn with a team we're better than.' ?

Does he . The man is basically a mentalist, watch him on the sideline, if he was offered a Playstation pad to control the players, he'd bite your hand off. He probably plays Pro Evo, like us (or them sad who sit there and play Fifa- ) and wants to manipulate them to his exact wants and needs. But he can't, he's still learning, he always is, just as the players are always learning about him. We're not gonna be Arsenal, cos the manager hasn't had 11 years to change the philosophy of the whole club, ditto United, or even Chelsea, cos we've not had a cheque book thrown at us to sign £50m worth of central midielders.

He sees what's wrong, just like we see what's wrong. He's trying to improve that, every day he's looking for players, we've got some dross, he knows that, I know that, you know that. So get the off his back. 'Ar ey lad, he's him, get rid la and get someone in who knows what he's doing. That Paul Jewell, he's scouse him.' (Yeah, I'd like to say I'm joking, but I've heard that).

To be honest, we probably won't win the league this season, regardless, we're making huge steps. This time last season, we were still a month away from an away win, this time round, we've got four. We'll be close this season, I doubt we'll win it, we might even come 4th, but we'll be close, even if we are 4th. And then in the summer, we'll sign players, possibly some wingers, maybe a second striker, maybe another centre half, which could have used the last month, regardless, we'll improve again.

But yeah, get rid of the manager and get some in who'll probably look at Steven Gerrard and think 'Why the am I managing him - he's far bigger than me.'

Some people need to get a grip. 11 games played, 6 points of the lead. And we're unbeaten. 14 points away from home? Did we even get that away from home in the whole of last season? I don't know, I can't be arsed checking, mainly 'cos it doesn't matter.

Miserable. Shower. Of. .

If we won every game 6-0, people would still moan. Do us a favour. Go and support Kauto Star. He never loses. Oh wait, he does.

The 2nd best National Hunt horse ever isn't perfect. Neither are the Reds. Deal with it. Bellends

Wanted to echo Phils sentiments here.

Ill tell you what that post sent -    shivers down my spine Give the man a drink.

Reading that was a wake up call its brillaint to know we still have some fans who believe. IF ever there was a rally cry to some fans that was it.

Ok we all moan and i must be truthful its hurting me to see the type of football were playing, and yes im one of them old codgers at the matches who have witnessed the glory days but as a Liverpool Fan i will always support YES support.

There are so many people who say i can do a better job than Rafa. Well go and get all your coaching  badges then aand apply for the job.

I could pass a ball better than him. Then why are you sitting watching and eating a pie. When hes on the pitch. Did all these people miraculosly get overlooked in Wally Hall Park.

In relation to the post         

Id give him job at Anfield for the post match warm up speech


 

[Feugo]

Rafa should rest Gerrard.. hes look really tired... and Kuyt?? come on!!
Crouch did good.. and Kewell kicked ... but why they only play 30mins?
come on Rafa! stop experimenting.
Sissoko always loose the ball and Babel?? zZzZz hes only good in FIFA08 :P

[66-1112520797]

I said on the match thread I think it's a good point won

Just goes to show how are standards have dropped with statements like this, f.ucking joke.

[Owzat]

The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results.

Stop picking Kuyt

Did you know Kuyt has played 62 times for Liverpool, playing the full 90/120 mins 33 times and on another 7 occaisions going off in the 89th?

89+ mins : 14 goals in 40 apps (0.350 goals/app)

That's 3623 mins on the pitch and a goal every 259 mins which is near enough 1 every 3 games.

Crouch (Liverpool)

Apps : 108
Mins : 6338
Goals : 32

Goals/app : 0.296
Mins/goal : 198

Kuyt (Liverpool)

Apps : 62
Mins : 4656
Goals : 19

Goals/app : 0.306
Mins/goal : 245

At the rate Rafa's going Kuyt will have more mins on the pitch than Crouch despite the latter being here a season longer.



Anyway, to the match. We could have lost and Blackburn created enough chances to make me wonder why we needed Sissoko AND Mascherano on the pitch. To protect the back four? Didn't exactly stop them creating chances. I wondered the same thing when those two were on the pitch against ten 'men' bitter blues when the score was still 1-1.

And what is all this messing about with formation and personnel? I looked at the bench and saw Kewell and Crouch as our only two attacking alternatives, when they were on we looked much better, but with only two strikers in the squad we could only play two at one time and so Kuyt stayed on and probably cost us the three points. Crouch did ok, fair play. I think both Crouch and Kuyt were lucky to survive the summer and the stats support that, the generalisation that good strikers score every other game is based on appearances against goals not minutes, it should be a lot better if based on minutes per goal.

Was it a good point? Better result than last season, but if we rationalise dropped points as being good results then we could argue that drawing about 1/3 games is a "good point" - you could say it about away games at Boro, Tottenham, Man Utd, Chelsea, Arsenal, Newcastle, Portsmouth, and even teams like Birmingham, Bolton, West Ham, Fulham and almost any game we've drawn or lost under Rafa.

Bottom line is we could have won, we probably should have won and should most certainly be looking to win. Sad fact is we looked to win and couldn't, we've drawn plenty of games the mancs would have looked to won and probably been disappointed with a draw - Brum (h), spudz (h), Arsenal (h), Chelsea (h), Pompey (a), Blackburn (a) - they might not have won them all but I bet they'd have picked up more than six points.

Or perhaps we're writing this season off and preparing for a title bid already. Some are saying we're unbeaten and only six points off the lead. But what if this is our best spell? When are we going to win against those teams? The home games are our best chances of three points and frankly despite being unbeaten we're probably doing worse than in 2005/6 and 2006/7. Without checking the stats I know we picked up wins against Chelsea, Arsenal and Tottenham at home last season so from just those three games we picked up more points than from the six games listed this season (all unbeaten but it's about points not "unbeaten")

Tottenham had a problem with conceding goals last season while scoring freely. This season they have EXACTLY the same problem despite spending lots of money and it cost Jol his job. We had problems scoring last season and have the same problem this season, Rafa brought in Torres but that's ONE striker in about a dozen tried under Rafa who actually looks up to the task.

A wise man learns from his mistakes, a stupid man who keeps making the same mistakes has learned nothing. If we're going to win the league under Rafa you have to decide if he's a wise man or a stupid man. Not necessarily by the result but by the way they are achieved. We're looking good for third or fourth again, is that a stepping stone to the title or simply a case of stuck where Evans and Houllier got to?

[NANNY RED]

Rafa should rest Gerrard.. hes look really tired... and Kuyt?? come on!!
Crouch did good.. and Kewell kicked ... but why they only play 30mins?
come on Rafa! stop experimenting.
Sissoko always loose the ball and Babel?? zZzZz hes only good in FIFA08 :P

When did you start supporting the reds lad.?

Maybe when you got your playstation in 2005

Icant believe some of the that is posted

Ok i know my posts are not very educational or in depth but comparing a player to a to someone on a computer game even i would look good on a computer game and thats saying something

No wonder some of our fans our in a sorry state 

[bigmick]

Just goes to show how are standards have dropped with statements like this, f.ucking joke.

I'm just being realistic BM, and I make no apologies for it. Does it mean our standards have dropped? Of course it does. Do I think we should be challenging for the title this season? Of course I do. Do I think we will? No I don't. I think we will be some way short of challenging for the title, and I think we will finish fourth. That is my honest appraisal of where we are.

Now given that, (and of course fifth would be an absolute disaster for whoever is in charge next season), i think it's a good point won at Blackburn. If you want to win the title and think that we have a real good chance of doing so this season, then of course we needed to go there and win ideally. If you believe like me though that our title bid is almost dead in the water, then it's a good point gained as Blackburn will probably finish top six or seven and will be one of our rivals.

Now I am acutely aware that my brutal honesty will not win me many friends on here but there it is. There seems little point to me in saying I think we will/can win it when I don't think we will/can. I know it's not that early, but if I were a betting man (and I am) I would put us as extreme outsiders at best right now.

[66-1112520797]

:no

Just goes to show how are standards have dropped with statements like this, f.ucking joke.

I'm just being realistic BM, and I make no apologies for it. Does it mean our standards have dropped? Of course it does. Do I think we should be challenging for the title this season? Of course I do. Do I think we will? No I don't. I think we will be some way short of challenging for the title, and I think we will finish fourth. That is my honest appraisal of where we are.

Now given that, (and of course fifth would be an absolute disaster for whoever is in charge next season), i think it's a good point won at Blackburn. If you want to win the title and think that we have a real good chance of doing so this season, then of course we needed to go there and win ideally. If you believe like me though that our title bid is almost dead in the water, then it's a good point gained as Blackburn will probably finish top six or seven and will be one of our rivals.

Now I am acutely aware that my brutal honesty will not win me many friends on here but there it is. There seems little point to me in saying I think we will/can win it when I don't think we will/can. I know it's not that early, but if I were a betting man (and I am) I would put us as extreme outsiders at best right now.

So how can you say "we've improved immensly in the league under Rafa" ?

We havent, every year since being under Rafa we've been out of the league by November.

We play negative containing football, that wont win us the league.

But what happened to all the people who beileved during the summer we'd challenge for it ?

I was one of them, and again like this time last season I'm b.loody annoyed. 

[bigmick]

On the Betfair, Man Utd are 2.38. Arsenal are 3.7, Chelsea 4.6 and Liverpool 12.5. Without getting too technical, a tenner on Man Utd should they win it would return £23.80 including your stake, a tenner on Liverpool £125. It makes us about an eleven and a half to one chance, and that's skinny in my opinion.

As to us improving under Rafa in the league BM, I think we have. Without wanting to revisit old ground visa-vis Houllier, I think in his last season and a half he had lost it and the club was going backwards. Now Rafa certainly took us forwards there is no doubt in my mind about that, whether or not we are re-tracing our steps this season in the opposite direction again is obviously a possibility, but too early to call right now.

As per usual I am just calling it early. Whether I am right or not remains to be seen, but come the end of the season that point at Blackburn could be vital. Not unfortunately vital int hat it wins us the title, but it could be vital in getting us in the Champions League.

I haven't by any means suddenly changed my tune re Rafa and his methods. I'm simply trying to look at things objectively. I thought we were good enoguh to challenge for the title last season and we didn't. I think we have enough talent to challenge for the title this season and I don't think we will. Where that leaves us visa vis the manager, his methods, signings etc is for another time, but for now, for how good we actually are, a draw at Blackburn is a decent effort.

[66-1112520797]

Its grim reading really, and grim football to go with it.

I'm offski

[OneHotRed]

On the Betfair, Man Utd are 2.38. Arsenal are 3.7, Chelsea 4.6 and Liverpool 12.5. Without getting too technical, a tenner on Man Utd should they win it would return £23.80 including your stake, a tenner on Liverpool £125. It makes us about an eleven and a half to one chance, and that's skinny in my opinion.

As to us improving under Rafa in the league BM, I think we have. Without wanting to revisit old ground visa-vis Houllier, I think in his last season and a half he had lost it and the club was going backwards. Now Rafa certainly took us forwards there is no doubt in my mind about that, whether or not we are re-tracing our steps this season in the opposite direction again is obviously a possibility, but too early to call right now.

As per usual I am just calling it early. Whether I am right or not remains to be seen, but come the end of the season that point at Blackburn could be vital. Not unfortunately vital int hat it wins us the title, but it could be vital in getting us in the Champions League.

I haven't by any means suddenly changed my tune re Rafa and his methods. I'm simply trying to look at things objectively. I thought we were good enoguh to challenge for the title last season and we didn't. I think we have enough talent to challenge for the title this season and I don't think we will. Where that leaves us visa vis the manager, his methods, signings etc is for another time, but for now, for how good we actually are, a draw at Blackburn is a decent effort.

Whole heartedley (sp?) agree matey, I couldnt have put it so eloquent though.

[ivor_the_injun]

Without getting into all the specifics about who Rafa's playing, and how they're performing, we're still unbeaten in the league, and that's not nothing. We've conceded only 6 goals all season, and only Man U have matched that kind of defensive record.

Win our game in hand over Man U and Chelsea and we're potentially going to leap straight into third on goal difference (I'm disregarding Portsmouth, Man C and Blackburn here as they're not in the same race come May), and suddenly there's nothing wrong with our position.

We've played Arsenal, Chelsea, Everton, Portsmouth, Spurs and Blackburn, all teams I'd have had down as top 8 finishers in the league before the season started. We've come away with 8 points from those games. It's not a phenomenal tally out of a potential 18 points, but we've come away from all of those games with points, and that'll tell come the end of the season. Not many teams will do the double over those sorts of sides, and what may have seemed like a grim point now could be crucial when it all comes out in the wash at season's end.

I'm not deluded, and I do question some of the selection decisions that Rafa's made lately, but no trophies of note are handed out in the first weekend of November. When you look at the 11 matches we've played, the majority of which have been against upper league sides, I'd say that getting this far unbeaten is something that needs noting. Yes, a couple more wins would have been nice, and some more goals would go down a treat, but you can't win them all.

Also, take Gallas, Fabregas out of Arsenal's side alongside Van Persie for as long as we'll miss Agger, Alonso and Torres, and see how they do with that kind of fixture list.

If we'd won yesterday we'd be 4th, 4 points off the top. I still don't think this year is a title-winning season, but even with 2 points dropped yesterday we're still very much in this. 

It's been a poor run, but last season that Dunn effort would have gone in, and we'd be moaning about more failure to get any points on the road.

Chins up, is all I'm saying.

[joko]

remembering marseille match. i'm very relieved with last night match. not being happy, but i'm glad we have regain some of our confidence and spirit. if we need someone to point our fingers out; he must be the striker. we created some decent chances but failed to convert them into scores. and also remember; xabi, agger and torres is on their ways. we'll be breaking into the top four soon, i firmly believe.

[lakes10]

over the last 6 weeks things have gone very strange for us as Liverpool Fans, you must look at what has changed, yes we have players out but it seems some of our best players have forgot how to play football.

With the American owners looing to get some kind of Success this year i feel that Rafa might only have one game left to keep his job.

[ivor_the_injun]

You've been reading the Sunday Express, haven't you?

[lakes10]

You've been reading the Sunday Express, haven't you?

no but i think they read my post from last week.