Liverpool FC Forum

[red till i die!!]

Pepe didn't exactly cover himself in glory when he left, there was no need for the open letter to the fans (he was only going on loan) and throwing in asides like 'I'm going to work with the best manager I've played under' just makes him sound bitchy, particularly when he'd just spent the previous year working with Rodgers.
You have to look at it from Brendan's point of view, don't forget when he first got the managers job here most of the surveys commissioned by the Echo / local radio stations etc showed that the fans (the local ones at least) overwhelmingly wanted Rafa Benitez back and after a less than stellar first season in charge the last thing Rodgers needed was one of his senior players basically saying 'I'm off to play under a better manager'.
The fact that manager was fans choice Rafa Benitez made that sly dig even worse.

what was he to do though?
rodgers signed another keeper citing it was for competition, then started blabbing about his wages and we cant afford to have that sitting on the bench. he then sent him out on loan to another club because he was not going to be 1st choice. that relationship had well broken down before that letter was even penned. after he left last season did you really think him and his massive wage was going to return.if brendan has a problem with rafa benitez being called a better manager then his ego has truly left this earth.
imo rodgers is just trying to deflect criticism from his big spend on a keeper that is not an improvement and the fans know this.
im also fairly sure suarez's agent told ayre and brendan to expect a bid that actually materialised but because brendan wanted him he never left, lets not forget luis lubed himself up often enough over the summer looking for his move and probably signed a new deal saying he could go if either real or barca came calling.
reina gets abuse and accused of whoring himself out because in an interview he got asked about the possibility of someday returning to the club where it all started for him.
anyway i dont think they will be sending christmas cards to each other this year 

[woof woof !]

Pepe wanted to "have his cake and eat it"

The club was told he wanted to negotiate an extension to his contract although at the time his existing contract still had three years to run, at the same time he told the club that if an offer came in from Barca he would like it to be considered.

Meanwhile Pepe's father admitted that talks had already taken place between Pepe and Barca and that if their keeper left at the end of the season (as he'd indicated he would) then Pepe would be signed as his replacement.

Under such circumstances I don't think Rodgers had any choice other than to look for another keeper as if Barca came in for Pepe we could have found ourselves preparing for the new season without a first choice keeper.

Mignolet was signed, Pepe got the hump and the rest is history.

Although Pepe is imo a far superior keeper to Mignolet and still has two years to run on his contract I doubt if he ever play for us again. Although he's quoted as saying "at the end of my loan to Napoli I'm still a Liverpool player" I think Pepe has basically burnt his bridges with us .

It's a pity as I think he's a better keeper than Mig BUT I'm not forgetting that if the Barca keeper hadn't changed his mind about leaving them, Pepe would have been off like a shot.

[devaney]

Pepe wanted to "have his cake and eat it"

The club was told he wanted to negotiate an extension to his contract although at the time his existing contract still had three years to run, at the same time he told the club that if an offer came in from Barca he would like it to be considered.

Meanwhile Pepe's father admitted that talks had already taken place between Pepe and Barca and that if their keeper left at the end of the season (as he'd indicated he would) then Pepe would be signed as his replacement.

Under such circumstances I don't think Rodgers had any choice other than to look for another keeper as if Barca came in for Pepe we could have found ourselves preparing for the new season without a first choice keeper.

Mignolet was signed, Pepe got the hump and the rest is history.

Although Pepe is imo a far superior keeper to Mignolet and still has two years to run on his contract I doubt if he ever play for us again. Although he's quoted as saying "at the end of my loan to Napoli I'm still a Liverpool player" I think Pepe has basically burnt his bridges with us .

It's a pity as I think he's a better keeper than Mig BUT I'm not forgetting that if the Barca keeper hadn't changed his mind about leaving them, Pepe would have been off like a shot.

Agree with all that Woof and his agent I seem to remember was also talking about a move to Barca as Valdes had decided to leave.

Mignolet made one brilliant save against Southampton at a time when we were under pressure. I'm not sure Pepe would have kept that one out of the net. It was a game changing moment.

[lakes10]

I don't think Pepe is a better than Mignolet, far from it in fact. Pepe for the last 2 years had to be told to keep his eye on the ball and his mind on the game all the time by other players during the game, he made many big mistake, his goal kicks gave the ball away 89% of the time (sky sports stats),  he was not getting on with the other players and for the last year spent most of his time on his own before and after training. I don't wish to see him back at the club.

[Ben Patrick]

I know I might be in the minority but I am happy we have mignolet now. Ave said it loads of times but will again. Reina hardly saved anything in the last couple of seasons. He wouldnt have saved the rodriguez one yesterday. He would have stood rooted like he did for the Swansea goal against Napoli in midweek. I now await Stu telling me I am clueless

[Stu the Red]

What would be the point in that when you already know you're talking sh*te?

[ConnO'var]

Actually, he's not.
Most times you talk sense, stu.
But with the reina issue, you surely got your blinkers on.

Ability is not the be all and end all. One's mental state and attitude and heart has an equal, or oftimes greater, import.

Like Ben, I am glad he's no longer here. The Pepe that was a superb goalkeeper had dissappeared for a good 2 years  before he left the club on loan

[Stu the Red]

No-one's denying his form dipped, but it dipped, to nowhere near the extent some people make out. As I've said before, he made less mistakes in his entire Liverpool career than this heap of cr*p has in his first season alone.

Some of Pepe's mistakes came as a result of losing two decent centre half's in front of him... his form was bound to dip when playing behind rubbish like Skrtel, the point is he has the ability, where Mignolet clearly doesn't.

[lakes10]

No-one's denying his form dipped, but it dipped, to nowhere near the extent some people make out. As I've said before, he made less mistakes in his entire Liverpool career than this heap of cr*p has in his first season alone.

Some of Pepe's mistakes came as a result of losing two decent centre half's in front of him... his form was bound to dip when playing behind rubbish like Skrtel, the point is he has the ability, where Mignolet clearly doesn't.

think it was more to do with his mind than his skill, he got greedy, not for money but for fame, he no longer saw us as the place to be. his mind was never in the same game as his body for a full 90mins.

[Thommo's perm]

No-one's denying his form dipped, but it dipped, to nowhere near the extent some people make out. As I've said before, he made less mistakes in his entire Liverpool career than this heap of cr*p has in his first season alone.

Some of Pepe's mistakes came as a result of losing two decent centre half's in front of him... his form was bound to dip when playing behind rubbish like Skrtel, the point is he has the ability, where Mignolet clearly doesn't.

Rearrange these words:
straws, at, clutching.

[Ben Patrick]

No-one's denying his form dipped, but it dipped, to nowhere near the extent some people make out. As I've said before, he made less mistakes in his entire Liverpool career than this heap of cr*p has in his first season alone.

Some of Pepe's mistakes came as a result of losing two decent centre half's in front of him... his form was bound to dip when playing behind rubbish like Skrtel, the point is he has the ability, where Mignolet clearly doesn't.

Stu I would agree that Reina didnt make loads of obvious mistakes. The clanger types that people remember easily.

My problem with him is/was that he just didnt save much.
If a shot hit the target more often than not it resulted in a goal.
I've given examples in the past and will again when I am not in work. But the amount of times he stood there rooted when a shot hit the target was not good enough.
I dont think he would have been getting down for Rodriguez's shot the other day and those kind of saves win you games.

[metalhead]

No-one's denying his form dipped, but it dipped, to nowhere near the extent some people make out. As I've said before, he made less mistakes in his entire Liverpool career than this heap of cr*p has in his first season alone.

Some of Pepe's mistakes came as a result of losing two decent centre half's in front of him... his form was bound to dip when playing behind rubbish like Skrtel, the point is he has the ability, where Mignolet clearly doesn't.

Stu I would agree that Reina didnt make loads of obvious mistakes. The clanger types that people remember easily.

My problem with him is/was that he just didnt save much.
If a shot hit the target more often than not it resulted in a goal.
I've given examples in the past and will again when I am not in work. But the amount of times he stood there rooted when a shot hit the target was not good enough.
I dont think he would have been getting down for Rodriguez's shot the other day and those kind of saves win you games.

Ben, regarding the Rodriguez save, it was a good save yes, but any decent GK with great reflexes would have saved it. The same way Dudek saved Shevchenko's penalty in the CL 2005, when Dudek actually went the other way  but pulled up his leg in the last second to save the penalty. The Rodriguez save shows the good parts of Mignolet, which is shot stopping ability, however, what also matters is that he should be a better communicator because frankly speaking he is very average at that and he also usually kicks the ball back to the opposition, which could put us in the back foot or get caught if we play high defensive line. Reina was class mate, he had two average seasons because as Stu said the change in the back four and the way the team was playing made him lose some confidence in his own abilities. Yes, he did some howlers, or was beaten near post a number of times, but he didn't do it frequently. You don't win 3 golden gloves for being a terrible keeper.

[Ben Patrick]

I agree about the communication and distribustion of Reina being much better.
Having said that I think the kicks that Mignolet does, those little floated balls out to the full backs, are instructed by the manager.
I dont like them as they put the full backs under too much pressure but the fact that he aims for those positions with the same sort of weight every time suggest that it's something they have worked on and instructed him to do.

On the subject of Reinas form, 2 seasons is a long time to not be great wouldnt you say ?
I wouldnt want to take anything away from Reinas achievements winning the golden gloves. It was fantastic and showed a great level of consistency.
But i highly doubt Reina in this side with the players in front of him and the way we are attack minded would get anywhere near the clean sheet record.
Rafa built his side around controlling games and was a lot more of a defensive minded manager. If Mignolet was in that side I am sure we would keep a high number of clean sheets too.
If we had the Pepe we had when he first signed from Villareal then I would agree he was a better keeper. But I dont agree that Reina now is better than Mignolet.
Suppose it's all about opinions 

[metalhead]

Of course it is Ben, not going to do the Stu and say you are WRONG and I'm right  , it's all about opinions in the end and I highly disagree with yours.

His usually puts his kicks also out to the center, not just the fullbacks, and 70% of the time it ends up with the opposition (one of Charlie Adam's goals in the Britannia in Jan, his kicking followed by some inept defending made us concede a goal) and also he puts himself under a lot pressure by doing so. Even if it is instructed by the manager, a GK with excellent distribution would get it to his teammate 95% of the time, however we can discuss this even more in the Mignolet thread.

Back to Reina, you also have to take into account that the last 2 years of his career, as a team we have been performing poorly in the league, even Steven Gerrard wasn't up to his best and I still remember lots of fans were criticizing him too, so I don't think it's a coincidence that Reina's form dropped during the time we started going downhill. To me it's the lack of confidence exhibited by Reina and the back four who he had to play with. We may or may not seen any improvement in our defense if Reina was still our no 1 GK this season, but IMO I think we would have done a lot better with him organizing the defense than Migs.

[damjan193]

It's a bit silly to say that Reina's form dipped because of the bad back 4 he had in front of him while Mignolet currently has a back 4 that is even worse. Keep in mind that he's also playing in a system that favors attacking football.

But unfortunately, IMO, Mignolet has a lot of flaws that I thought we'll see an improvement on by now but it hasn't happened and I don't think that it ever will. Overall, Reina was a far better keeper. Yes, he might have not caught shots like Mign did the other day but he would have still saved it, just not like that. He would have probably positioned himself in front of Rodriguez, closing all the angles and denying Rodriguez the opportunity to have a decent shot.

However, considering Reina's form and the way that he acted, I think that signing Mignolet was the right decision. He might not be as good as Reina was at his best, but he's still a good goalie that will have a good career with us.