Liverpool FC Forum

[bigmick]

But I'm starting to come round to thinking that they are both going to be very very good players.

Lucas I've liked pretty much from the first time I saw him, and each time I have a look at him I like him more. He recieved one fizzy pass from Alonso last night (your time) and pinged a first time cushioned steer into the path of Pennant which had absolute top, top quality written all over it. I like the way he moves in and out, drifting into spaces. I like his awareness of whats around him, he plays in the full 360 and I really like his wieght of pass. He has top drawer potential stamped on him for me, and my suspicion is we are going to have to find a spot in the team for him sooner rather than later.

Babel has been gradually improving each time I've seen him too. Unlike Lucas, he does occasionally look like a hockey player who has inadvertantly wandered into the wrong arena but those moments are becoming less frequent as time goes on. I obviously liked his goal, I liked the one that hit the post where he showed good technique and I also liked the one that he put over the bar from Crouch's lay-off. It was a poor effort but I think the fact that he tried to place it rather than blazing it was good. There was one towards the end where he went down the left wing and pulled it back, unfortunately behind all the runners. The pundit over here (some clueless c... called Tommy Smith, Irish fella) bemoaned his lack of vision but it was very much the fault of the runners (Torres in particular) for hitting the space too early. I like the lad, and he really could be anything.

Just think if next season we played Gerrard on the right, along with Lucas and Masherano in the centre (OK, or Alonso if you prefer      ) along with a decent left winger and Babel up top with Torres. It might not be a million miles away.

On a sidenote, I also thought their right full-back looked like a decent player, Keane I think his name was but I might be wrong.

[Sabre]

Yes I quite agree everything you say, the two buts, is that we don't seem to have that time to gradually improve. I expected the kind of signings this season, that could put you on another level right this season. About Babel, I still would like to see him using the left foot more, but I like him aswell.

[Ciggy]

My heads in a mess at the moment Mick that I cannot respond to your topic in a sensible manner.
But Andy Gray said the one to look out for next season was Ryan Babel he has all the traights to becoming the new Henry, he has that many tricks up his sleve but it all depends on what Babel turns up on the day.

Because he is very lazy.

Well we know that already turning up twice late in the Holland training Camp.

[Bad Bob]

Agreed on Lucas, he looks like he'll be class.  We'll have trouble finding a place for him but there's no question the talent's there.

On Babel, I'm still not convinced, TBH.  Much has to do with the fact that he's no winger and so we're not seeing his best out there.  A lot has to do with his mentality, though.  As Ciggy has said, he seems a bit of a dozy lad.  When he's on song and buzzing about he can be a real threat but he seems to hide all too easily if things don't go smoothly for him.  I just haven't seen that determination from him yet that says he's ready to sweat blood for the cause.  Now, as Kuyt well demonstrates, sheer determination is not enough but with this kid, I'd like to see a bit more passion, a bit more conviction, a bit more ferocity.  Perhaps I'm being harsh on the lad but that's my feeling on him thus far.

[Ciggy]

Babel has recieved his last warning from Van Basten turn up late for training again and your out the squad.

He has done it twice swanning in for breakfast when the others were finished, but he doesnt even drink so its not like hes got a hangover some Surinamers are very lazy, my fella's mates daughter was seeing him but fecked him off aswell cause he didnt turn up on time to take her out for a meal.

[Pedro Maradona]

Babel has recieved his last warning from Van Basten turn up late for training again and your out the squad.

He has done it twice swanning in for breakfast when the others were finished, but he doesnt even drink so its not like hes got a hangover some Surinamers are very lazy, my fella's mates daughter was seeing him but fecked him off aswell cause he didnt turn up on time to take her out for a meal.

ohhhh ciggy ur verging on that thorny issue of racial stereotyping here....
just coz the lad missed the bus doesnt mean all surinamese are lazy! 

[LFC2007]

Babel has recieved his last warning from Van Basten turn up late for training again and your out the squad.

He has done it twice swanning in for breakfast when the others were finished, but he doesnt even drink so its not like hes got a hangover some Surinamers are very lazy, my fella's mates daughter was seeing him but fecked him off aswell cause he didnt turn up on time to take her out for a meal.

ohhhh ciggy ur verging on that thorny issue of racial stereotyping here....
just coz the lad missed the bus doesnt mean all surinamese are lazy! 

'Some'.

[bigmick]

To be fair to Lynds, she does say SOME surinamese are very lazy, not all. FWIW I think that all political correctness aside, your background and upbringing does have a lot to do with your outlook. I mean in New Zealand, (and I'm talking about white people here of European descent) people go through life as if there's no real rush to do anything. I had a sparky in the shop last Thursday to fix some lights, he said he didn't have one of the parts so he'd go get them and see me in the morning. He actually rolled in this morning (Wednesday) and fixed 'em. When I asked him where he'd been, he couldn't really see what my problem was, just kind of shrugged and grinned. Unbelieveable really.

If you ever go to the West Indies (I did once), people by and large just chill out and do things at half pace if at all. Does it mean all West Indians are lazy feckers? No, but it does mean that quite a lot of West Indian native paeople do things a lot slower and are more laid back that what we are used to. Similarly, if you ever go spend some time in Southern Ireland you'll find exactly the same thing. I do wish we could try and steer clear of instantly taking some kind of racial position the minute somebody mentions a persons nationality and background. I dare say German players by and large turn up on time, and when they do they never miss a penalty in training. It's just the way they are I guess.

[Pedro Maradona]

Babel has recieved his last warning from Van Basten turn up late for training again and your out the squad.

He has done it twice swanning in for breakfast when the others were finished, but he doesnt even drink so its not like hes got a hangover some Surinamers are very lazy, my fella's mates daughter was seeing him but fecked him off aswell cause he didnt turn up on time to take her out for a meal.

ohhhh ciggy ur verging on that thorny issue of racial stereotyping here....
just coz the lad missed the bus doesnt mean all surinamese are lazy! 

'Some'.

ok.......
as in "some" irish are alcoholics?
as in "some" germans are efficient?
as in "some" latinos or are thieves?
its stereotyping and if you cant see it open your eyes!
you know what was being meant......dont try and gloss over it with symantics....

[LFC2007]

To be fair to Lynds, she does say SOME surinamese are very lazy, not all. FWIW I think that all political correctness aside, your background and upbringing does have a lot to do with your outlook. I mean in New Zealand, (and I'm talking about white people here of European descent) people go through life as if there's no real rush to do anything. I had a sparky in the shop last Thursday to fix some lights, he said he didn't have one of the parts so he'd go get them and see me in the morning. He actually rolled in this morning (Wednesday) and fixed 'em. When I asked him where he'd been, he couldn't really see what my problem was, just kind of shrugged and grinned. Unbelieveable really.

If you ever go to the West Indies (I did once), people by and large just chill out and do things at half pace if at all. Does it mean all West Indians are lazy feckers? No, but it does mean that quite a lot of West Indian native paeople do things a lot slower and are more laid back that what we are used to. Similarly, if you ever go spend some time in Southern Ireland you'll find exactly the same thing. I do wish we could try and steer clear of instantly taking some kind of racial position the minute somebody mentions a persons nationality and background. I dare say German players by and large turn up on time, and when they do they never miss a penalty in training. It's just the way they are I guess.

Loose judgements formed through personal experiences.

[LFC2007]

Babel has recieved his last warning from Van Basten turn up late for training again and your out the squad.

He has done it twice swanning in for breakfast when the others were finished, but he doesnt even drink so its not like hes got a hangover some Surinamers are very lazy, my fella's mates daughter was seeing him but fecked him off aswell cause he didnt turn up on time to take her out for a meal.

ohhhh ciggy ur verging on that thorny issue of racial stereotyping here....
just coz the lad missed the bus doesnt mean all surinamese are lazy! 

'Some'.

ok.......
as in "some" irish are alcoholics?
as in "some" germans are efficient?
as in "some" latinos or are thieves?
its stereotyping and if you cant see it open your eyes!
you know what was being meant......dont try and gloss over it with symantics....

It has absolutely nothing to do with semantics.

It's not stereotyping, Ciggy made a loose judgement drawn from her own experiences.

In her experience, she's found that some Surinamese are very lazy. Perhaps more so than people of different nationalities? Who knows, it's her call, based on what she's experienced.

It's just a personal judgement, not a racial stereotype.

Open your eyes.

[Pedro Maradona]

Babel has recieved his last warning from Van Basten turn up late for training again and your out the squad.

He has done it twice swanning in for breakfast when the others were finished, but he doesnt even drink so its not like hes got a hangover some Surinamers are very lazy, my fella's mates daughter was seeing him but fecked him off aswell cause he didnt turn up on time to take her out for a meal.

ohhhh ciggy ur verging on that thorny issue of racial stereotyping here....
just coz the lad missed the bus doesnt mean all surinamese are lazy! 

'Some'.

ok.......
as in "some" irish are alcoholics?
as in "some" germans are efficient?
as in "some" latinos or are thieves?
its stereotyping and if you cant see it open your eyes!
you know what was being meant......dont try and gloss over it with symantics....

It has absolutely nothing to do with semantics.

It's not stereotyping, Ciggy made a loose judgement drawn from her own experiences.

In her experience, she's found that some Surinamese are very lazy. Perhaps more so than people of different nationalities.

It's just a personal judgement, not a racial stereotype.

Open your eyes.

its a racial slur, maybe not intended but a slur nonetheless.
if i was surinamese i would have been offended.
not to be getting too deep but ciggy seems to be basing her experience on a conversation she had about one surinamese man whom she never actually met, i think thats a bit unfair dont you?
and you did use semantics...

[Pedro Maradona]

its a bit like saying some irish people are alcoholics coz i saw george best drunk on tv once. or some scousers are animals because i saw that joey barton getting jailed for fighting in macdonalds.....neither statement is correct.

[LFC2007]

Babel has recieved his last warning from Van Basten turn up late for training again and your out the squad.

He has done it twice swanning in for breakfast when the others were finished, but he doesnt even drink so its not like hes got a hangover some Surinamers are very lazy, my fella's mates daughter was seeing him but fecked him off aswell cause he didnt turn up on time to take her out for a meal.

ohhhh ciggy ur verging on that thorny issue of racial stereotyping here....
just coz the lad missed the bus doesnt mean all surinamese are lazy! 

'Some'.

ok.......
as in "some" irish are alcoholics?
as in "some" germans are efficient?
as in "some" latinos or are thieves?
its stereotyping and if you cant see it open your eyes!
you know what was being meant......dont try and gloss over it with symantics....

It has absolutely nothing to do with semantics.

It's not stereotyping, Ciggy made a loose judgement drawn from her own experiences.

In her experience, she's found that some Surinamese are very lazy. Perhaps more so than people of different nationalities.

It's just a personal judgement, not a racial stereotype.

Open your eyes.

its a racial slur, maybe not intended but a slur nonetheless.
if i was surinamese i would have been offended.
not to be getting too deep but ciggy seems to be basing her experience on a conversation she had about one surinamese man whom she never actually met, i think thats a bit unfair dont you?
and you did use semantics...

It has nothing to do with semantics.

She just made a very loose judgement, it's not as if she's declared every Surinamese person as 'lazy'. Just 'some' she's most likely encountered.

I believe she lived in the Netherlands, and there are plenty of Surinamese in the Netherlands. She has every right to make a judgement drawn from her own experiences. I would make an educated guess that she's met more Surinamese than I have, or any of us have.

She does say 'some' Surinamese,  and she'd probably have a better idea about the personality traits of certain groups of Surinamese than most of us would.

It was not a racial slur, and intended to cause no offence whatsoever (I'm sure she would confirm this).

It was not unfair.

[Bad Bob]

Steer it back to football folks or this thread will be locked.  Not taking sides but tensions are running high enough these days without going down this road.