Liverpool FC Forum

[LFC2007]

Steer it back to football folks or this thread will be locked.  Not taking sides but tensions are running high enough these days without going down this road.

Some Canadians lock threads. 

[Pedro Maradona]

Steer it back to football folks or this thread will be locked.  Not taking sides but tensions are running high enough these days without going down this road.

Some Canadians lock threads. 

damn those canucks lol

[Pedro Maradona]

speaking of which bob, what are your thoughts on gillet and hicks now? u were ok with them at the start....all u north americans are the same right?

[Bad Bob]

If he helps you move on, lads, you can trot out all the Canadian stereotypes you'd like.  I can take it.

On the owners, yeah, I was prepared to give them a chance when they first arrived--you know, North American solidarity and all...

Over the past couple of months I've not commented much, mostly because it was all murmurs in the press and who could tell what was real and what was rubbish?  But, with that statement yesterday the sheep's clothing well and truly came off to reveal Hicks for the wolf he is.  Embarassing your manager in public like that is just not done.   It's a slap in the face to all that this club stands for and I can only hope that these two muppets opt to pull up stakes and sell the club as soon as possible.

Right, back to the topic at hand with a question for people.  If Lucas looks the business but needs games to truly develop into a top class CM how will that come about given our strength in depth in the middle?  How would you go about grooming the lad?

[Pedro Maradona]

If he helps you move on, lads, you can trot out all the Canadian stereotypes you'd like.  I can take it.

On the owners, yeah, I was prepared to give them a chance when they first arrived--you know, North American solidarity and all...

Over the past couple of months I've not commented much, mostly because it was all murmurs in the press and who could tell what was real and what was rubbish?  But, with that statement yesterday the sheep's clothing well and truly came off to reveal Hicks for the wolf he is.  Embarassing your manager in public like that is just not done.   It's a slap in the face to all that this club stands for and I can only hope that these two muppets opt to pull up stakes and sell the club as soon as possible.

Right, back to the topic at hand with a question for people.  If Lucas looks the business but needs games to truly develop into a top class CM how will that come about given our strength in depth in the middle?  How would you go about grooming the lad?

stick the lad up front, not on the wing......(everyone knows wingers are lazy sods lol) no i think he isnt a winger hes a left sided forward, i hate to admit it but andy gray might be right about him he is potentially another theirry henry, and its always a good sign when wenger had him groomed for arsenal before liverpool stepped in.
as for Lucas, another very good astute signing and one for the future, I hope Rafa is there to see these two signings turn into excellent players.... I genuinely think if Rafa is left there things will eventually work out, with the likes of Lucas and Babel and Mascherano, all new signings who perhaps havent been lauded as astute a signing as Torres has been.
granted Mascherano is now being seen for what he is namelty the best defensive midfielder in the game at the moment and as a fulcrum in this current liverpool team. apologies for digressing....

[Bad Bob]

I agree that Babel's not at his best when played out wide.  I've also seen a lot of people wondering when we're going to see him partnered with Torres up top.  So, my second question is whether that partnership would actually work?  That is, is it one of those partnerships that sounds great on paper (Think of the flair!  Think of the pace!) but never quite clicks on the pitch?  Would Babel actually be a good foil for Torres?  Answers in an envelope...

[Pedro Maradona]

well i think it has to be worth a look, particularly given kuyt and voronins lack of goals and crouchs freeze out, i think having 2 pacy forwards rather than just one would be better but as you say on paper its one thing......
lucas needs games and with gerrard alonso and mascher there it might be difficult for him

[LFC2007]

Right, back to the topic at hand with a question for people.  If Lucas looks the business but needs games to truly develop into a top class CM how will that come about given our strength in depth in the middle?  How would you go about grooming the lad?

See how it goes, game by game. It's dependent on which players are in form, fit, the opposition we are facing, the context of the match etc... I don't think there is a set course you can follow. The 'when is the correct time to play him' question can only really be answered in the build-up prior to matches. He's a very talented player, ideally the aim would be to phase him into the side like Agger, although in his case displacing Mascherano, Alonso or Gerrard is going to be much tougher. The competition is much more fierce, he's not up against an ageing warhorse, but a group of extremely talented and equally quite young midfielders. At this present moment in might be wise to start him in home EPL games, alongside Gerrard. I think we'll certainly need Alonso and Mascherano against Inter, aswell as in the league when we visit the top three. Aim for home games, generally against slightly weaker sides - he's quite nimble and agile which I think might be an advantage for us should we face another 'park the bus' team. You really do need space infiltrators in those types of games, and when he plays well he can do that, he's a target to bounce the ball off quickly in the middle of the park. In this respect he's a tempo enhancer too - add that to your Newkit lingo. I think it would be vastly beneficial if we could get him experience in these types of games for the remainder of the season - we have nothing to lose really. By the time next season comes around we may have a key player who might be able to help unlock the Birmingham's of this world.

[Pedro Maradona]

Right, back to the topic at hand with a question for people.  If Lucas looks the business but needs games to truly develop into a top class CM how will that come about given our strength in depth in the middle?  How would you go about grooming the lad?

See how it goes, game by game. It's dependent on which players are in form, fit, the opposition we are facing, the context of the match etc... I don't think there is a set course you can follow. The 'when is the correct time to play him' question can only really be answered in the build-up prior to matches. He's a very talented player, ideally the aim would be to phase him into the side like Agger, although in his case displacing Mascherano, Alonso or Gerrard is going to be much tougher. The competition is much more fierce, he's not up against an ageing warhorse, but a group of extremely talented and equally quite young midfielders. At this present moment in might be wise to start him in home EPL games, alongside Gerrard. I think we'll certainly need Alonso and Mascherano against Inter, aswell as in the league when we visit the top three. Aim for home games, generally against slightly weaker sides - he's quite nimble and agile which I think might be an advantage for us should we face another 'park the bus' team. You really do need space infiltrators in those types of games, and when he plays well he can do that, he's a target to bounce the ball off quickly in the middle of the park. In this respect he's a tempo enhancer too - add that to your Newkit lingo. I think it would be vastly beneficial if we could get him experience in these types of games for the remainder of the season - we have nothing to lose really. By the time next season comes around we may have a key player who might be able to help unlock the Birmingham's of this world.

i agree, but trouble is if Rafa does that he gets accused of rotation again.....he cant win....its all tightrope stuff, he rotates to do this kind of thing and the result doesnt work out, he gets hammered, if it works out he doesnt get the credit coz of the attitude out there liverpool should be winning these games anyway.....

[66-1112520797]

But I'm starting to come round to thinking that they are both going to be very very good players

Mick you also said that about Kuyt.

FWIW though I do like the look of Babel, as for Lucas I dont honestly see what all the fuss is about. He's looked okay but nothing more.

[LFC2007]

I agree that Babel's not at his best when played out wide.  I've also seen a lot of people wondering when we're going to see him partnered with Torres up top.  So, my second question is whether that partnership would actually work?  That is, is it one of those partnerships that sounds great on paper (Think of the flair!  Think of the pace!) but never quite clicks on the pitch?  Would Babel actually be a good foil for Torres?  Answers in an envelope...

In the Euro' U-21 tournament last summer, he played up front alongside Maceo Rigters - an equally pacey forward. Rigters was generally the guy who made runs beyond the opposition back line, creating space for Babel to run into - which is what he needs because he's not really a guy who can operate as effectively in tight spaces. If Babel played up top with Torres I would imagine they could alternate (I was going to say rotate) running the channels, as they both have plenty of pace. They both have powerful and quite accurate shots, so any space they were able to create between them theyd be able to get a shot off, Kuyt unfortunately seems to have slowed down so much that getting a meaningful shot off is unlikely to happen, in spite of any space created by Torres' runs. Voronin, well, I'll not go there.

[Eminem7]

Alonso is overrated but you guys who rate him must wanna date him,
you must be medicated to have him rated.

This guy has had you like the emperor's new clothes, but I see him naked and faked his way into the team.

Sell him for 15Mil and buy back Momo and some change left over to bring back Djimi and then we will be winning and Rafa spinning from the rotation.

[bigmick]

But I'm starting to come round to thinking that they are both going to be very very good players

Mick you also said that about Kuyt.

FWIW though I do like the look of Babel, as for Lucas I dont honestly see what all the fuss is about. He's looked okay but nothing more.

Did I? I'd forgotten about that    I was kind of hoping I'd picked out that he couldn't hit a cows erse with a banjo on first look but now I think about it you might be right mate. I am allowed to get em wrong sometimes  In actual fact, I wouldn't be the best star spotter on here by any means, I've been wrong about a few players in my newkit career.

As far as Lucas is concerned, I take your point about not seeing what the fuss is about but I really think if you look closely, it's there (unless I'm deluding myself again). It's a bit like Luis Garcia and his ability to score goals. You can see if you watch him that he will always score as he moves into the right areas at exactly the right time. With Lucas, his body shape is alweays perfect. His control both in the sense of him bringing it down or in the way he pings it first time is always spot on. His wieght of pass is always perfect. His instince to glide into the spaces is on the button, his awareness absolute.

Now I'll grant you that he hasn't actually done feck all yet    , but I'm absolutely certain that he can and will. Someone with his football brain and talent simply must make a player. In posession he very much reminds me of a young Paul Scholes, all reverse passes, three steps backwards into space and total awareness of his teammates. I think he's going to be a player as i just have a hunch (based on feck all obviously if I'm truthful  ) that he's got a goal in him as well.

As for where and when he plays, well for me he plays in the centre alongside Masherano, with Gerrard on the right. Alonso would be on the bench. There, a bit of controversy to go with all the other comings and goings on this week.

[66-1112520797]

To be fair to Lynds, she does say SOME surinamese are very lazy, not all. FWIW I think that all political correctness aside, your background and upbringing does have a lot to do with your outlook. I mean in New Zealand, (and I'm talking about white people here of European descent) people go through life as if there's no real rush to do anything. I had a sparky in the shop last Thursday to fix some lights, he said he didn't have one of the parts so he'd go get them and see me in the morning. He actually rolled in this morning (Wednesday) and fixed 'em. When I asked him where he'd been, he couldn't really see what my problem was, just kind of shrugged and grinned. Unbelieveable really.

If you ever go to the West Indies (I did once), people by and large just chill out and do things at half pace if at all. Does it mean all West Indians are lazy feckers? No, but it does mean that quite a lot of West Indian native paeople do things a lot slower and are more laid back that what we are used to. Similarly, if you ever go spend some time in Southern Ireland you'll find exactly the same thing. I do wish we could try and steer clear of instantly taking some kind of racial position the minute somebody mentions a persons nationality and background. I dare say German players by and large turn up on time, and when they do they never miss a penalty in training. It's just the way they are I guess.

True.

When I lived up in Bamaga the days were that much longer. Great people the islanders and Aborigines, but they need a rocket up their @rse. Well they dont really, flying  in from London to Bamaga was like the twighlight zone, for many reasons. But because I was used to the hussle and bussle of London, the people up north seemed soooo sidated.

They even said themselves ..... " It takes us an hour and a half to watch 60 minutes " 

[Seano Kop]

My heads in a mess at the moment Mick that I cannot respond to your topic in a sensible manner.
But Andy Gray said the one to look out for next season was Ryan Babel he has all the traights to becoming the new Henry, he has that many tricks up his sleve but it all depends on what Babel turns up on the day.

Because he is very lazy.

Well we know that already turning up twice late in the Holland training Camp.

It was only a case of over-sleeping, i do that all the time. It's good for you.... rite?