Liverpool FC Forum

[devaney]

Salah is 29, 30 in June this year and 31 in 2023 - not 32 as somebody suggested. His current contract ends in 2023 so no club in its right mind is going to pay more than £50m with only a year left on his contract. Expecting over £100m is pure fantasy.

[red till i die!!]

It was me who said 32    If he's only 31 then even better.

The point still stands though in that he would be still a very good player for us in 2 years. If he signs an extension we would easily recoup his transfer fee by selling off to a slower league. At 31 or 32 we would have no problem getting at least that amount back. If he doesn't sign and goes for free then he still goes down as one of the best value players we ever had.

This policy of having to sell your best player so we can buy new ones is the reason why we are behind City.

[ycsatbjywtbiastkamb]

It’s a tough one, many a club has got themselves into financial trouble by handing out bumper contracts to players who are past their best, on the other hand we are pretty toothless without him, no effin way do we win the PL or CL without Salah.
I suppose one way the club could justify the decision to give him a lucrative new deal would be to tell themselves that given his talent Mo has probably been under paid for a good few years now, don’t get me wrong he’s probably on about 200k a week which is an astonishing amount of money but he could have easily doubled that at say a City or Real Madrid if he would have chosen to leave at say 27.
He’s been pretty loyal to us and done the business every year he has been here, as I say it’s a tough one.

[kazza]

We always need to move forward as a club so I hope they have a plan. About five years ago I remember saying how young we were as a team and how we should have a dynasty for the next five years. The team was good enough but with COVID, a City team that has a bottomless wallet and the injury to VVD all worked to stop us winning as many trophies was we should have. We did ok but could have done better with that team considering how good we were.

Now that forward line has aged and we may be able to keep one of them but two of the three need to move sooner rather than later. Although Salah would net us the most if sold, he also offers the most to the team and looks fit enough to give us another 4 years, unlike Mane and Firmino.

Big decisions need to be made this summer.

[7_Kewell]

Salah is 29, 30 in June this year and 31 in 2023 - not 32 as somebody suggested. His current contract ends in 2023 so no club in its right mind is going to pay more than £50m with only a year left on his contract. Expecting over £100m is pure fantasy.

I'm not so sure. I think PSG would pay top dollar, especially if Mbappe leaves this summer

[red till i die!!]

City have money but they can only spend according to the rules. They did break those same rules at one point but there isn't a chance they are still at it as they would have eyes all over their dealings. just because they have money doesn't justify our own unwillingness to spend.

Sell Salah and there is no guarantee his replacement will hit the ground running. No guarantee all the fee would go on new players either. Doing that would only widen the gap between us and them and they didn't even have to do a thing 

At the very least we should be looking to sell him. We should be looking to get the duds off the books and use that to sign a couple of quality or at the least reliable ones. That way maybe we could sell him another year and not give City a boost before a ball is even kicked.

[Boocity]

City have money but they can only spend according to the rules. They did break those same rules at one point but there isn't a chance they are still at it as they would have eyes all over their dealings.

Well lets be honest they bend the rules. If you look at who the main sponsors are for City it is Abu Dhabi companies such as Etihad. All these companies are state owned and there is no way Etihad can for instance afford the sort money they are giving city, especially since Covid. The money is coming from the owner but channelled through these companies as a legit sponsorship.

[Reg]

I've done my own research into top 4 transfer values since 2019 when we won the CL basis:
https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/manches ... 1#zugaenge

Liverpool
TRANSFER RECORD 21/22
Income/Expenditure Arrivals/Departures Fee
Income 10 £24.75
Expenditure 11 £36.00
Overall balance -£11.25

TRANSFER RECORD 20/21
Income/Expenditure Arrivals/Departures Fee
Income 13 £15.48
Expenditure 16 £74.39
Overall balance -£58.91

TRANSFER RECORD 19/20
Income/Expenditure Arrivals/Departures Fee
Income 14 £40.05
Expenditure 13 £9.36
Overall balance £30.00

Total Income          £80.28
Total Expenditure £119.75
Net                         -£40.16

Manchester City
TRANSFER RECORD 21/22
Income/Expenditure Arrivals/Departures Fee
Income 16 £84.42
Expenditure 15 £114.75
Overall balance -£30.33

TRANSFER RECORD 20/21
Income/Expenditure Arrivals/Departures Fee
Income 21 £68.99
Expenditure 24 £155.07
Overall balance -£86.09

RANSFER RECORD 19/20
Income/Expenditure Arrivals/Departures Fee
Income 22 £63.90
Expenditure 21 £143.37
Overall balance -£79.60

Total Income          £217.31
Total Expenditure £413.19
Net                         -£196.02

Manchester United
TRANSFER RECORD 21/22
Income/Expenditure Arrivals/Departures Fee
Income 8 27.63
Expenditure 11 126
Overall balance -98.36

TRANSFER RECORD 20/21
Income/Expenditure Arrivals/Departures Fee
Income 12 £17.55
Expenditure 12 £75.42
Overall balance -£57.87

TRANSFER RECORD 19/20
Income/Expenditure Arrivals/Departures Fee
Income 11 £73.06
Expenditure 11 £211.32
Overall balance -£138.26

Total Income          £118.24
Total Expenditure £412.74
Net                         -£294.49

Chelsea
TRANSFER RECORD 21/22
Income/Expenditure Arrivals/Departures Fee
Income 22 109.76
Expenditure 21 108
Overall balance 1.76

TRANSFER RECORD 20/21
Income/Expenditure Arrivals/Departures Fee
Income 25 51.66
Expenditure 29 222.48
Overall balance -170.82

TRANSFER RECORD 19/20
Income/Expenditure Arrivals/Departures Fee
Income 26 141.54
Expenditure 20 40.5
Overall balance 101.04

Total Income          £302.96
Total Expenditure £370.98
Net                         -£68.02

Basis the above, I struggle to see what the big complaint is against our rivals. City have spent -£196.02 more than they've received when selling players = investment in the squad. United of course waste money but thats because they're idiots. Chelsea spent -£22m a season more than they made selling players - no complaint surely?

LFC spent -£15m a season more than we pulled in. You'd be right to say that we can't justify a top 4 finish if we only spend 15 million a season....
Overall, I'd be happy to follow City, a very aggressive -£70 million a season to ensure they stay on top. CL and EPL earnings will easily offset that.

What this ignores is wages... Look at United's top earners....

Liverpool
2021 Active Roster
PLAYER (27) AGE WEEKLY SALARY
Virgil Van Dijk 29 £220,000
Thiago Alcántara do Nascimento 29 £200,000
Mohamed Salah 28 £200,000
Trent Alexander-Arnold 22 £180,000
Roberto Firmino 29 £180,000
Fabinho Tavares 27 £180,000
Alisson Becker 28 £150,000
Jordan Henderson 30 £140,000
James Milner 35 £140,000
Naby Keita 25 £120,000
Alex Oxlade-Chamberlain 27 £120,000
Sadio Mane 28 £100,000
Average 28.1 £160,000

Manchester City
2021 Active Roster
PLAYER (21) AGE WEEKLY SALARY
Kevin De Bruyne 29 £400,000
Jack Grealish 25 £300,000
Raheem Sterling 26 £300,000
John Stones 26 £250,000
Fernandinho Luis Roza 35 £150,000
Bernardo Silva 26 £150,000
Ilkay Gundogan 30 £140,000
Rodrigo Hernández Cascante 24 £121,154
Aymeric Laporte 26 £120,000
Riyad Mahrez 29 £120,000
Ruben Dias 0 £115,385
Kyle Walker 30 £110,000
Average 25.5 £190,000

Manchester United
2021 Active Roster
PLAYER (27) AGE WEEKLY SALARY
Cristiano Ronaldo 35 £510,000
David De Gea 30 £375,000
Jadon Sancho 20 £350,000
Raphael Varane 27 £340,000
Paul Pogba 27 £290,000
Edinson Cavani 33 £250,000
Anthony Martial 25 £250,000
Marcus Rashford 23 £200,000
Harry Maguire 27 £189,904
Bruno Fernandes 26 £180,000
Juan Mata 32 £160,000
Luke Shaw 25 £150,000
Average 27.5 £270,000

Chelsea
2021 Active Roster
PLAYER (25) AGE WEEKLY SALARY
Romelu Lukaku 27 £325,000
N'Golo Kante 29 £290,000
Timo Werner 24 £272,000
Saul Niguez  26 £198,269
Ben Chilwell 24 £190,000
Kepa Arrizabalaga 26 £155,000
César Azpilicueta 31 £150,000
Kai Havertz 21 £150,000
Mateo Kovacic 26 £150,000
Christian Pulisic 22 £150,000
Callum Hudson-Odoi 20 £120,000
Jorge Luiz Frello Filho 29 £110,000
Average 25.4 £188,000

This doesn't take into account bonuses nor sponsorship. United have to pay high salaries as they never win anything so no win bonus!

Thr truth is LFC rightly broke the bank to buy VVD and Becker, Keita was a mistake as reflected in his salary and apart from that we haven't paid up for anyone! LFC punch way above their transfer price dealings!

[woof woof !]

*****' Hell Reg ! my head hurts ! 

Love the input mate   

Any chance you can boil it down into a three line synopsis a thicko like me might grasp 

[Reg]

Blinkin 'ek Woof, I'd expect Tommy Smith to struggle with it but not you!

Transfers 2019, 20 and 21 (3 seasons) since we won the CL in Madrid:
Liverpool
Total Income          £80.28
Total Expenditure £119.75
Net                         -£40.16

Manchester City
Total Income          £217.31
Total Expenditure £413.19
Net                         -£196.02

Manchester United
Total Income          £118.24
Total Expenditure £412.74
Net                         -£294.49

Chelsea
Total Income          £302.96
Total Expenditure £370.98
Net                         -£68.02

Salaries per week of top 12 players per club:
Liverpool
Average 28.1 £160,000

Manchester City
Average 25.5 £190,000

Manchester United
Average 27.5 £270,000

Chelsea
Average 25.4 £188,000

LFC spent £15m per season more than we received in transfers which lacks ambition or fails to build on success. Lucky to make top 4 basis spending 15 million a season....
Overall, I'd be happy to follow City, with an aggressive £70 million a season over income to ensure they stay on top. CL and EPL earnings will easily offset that.
ManU's crazy salary structure demonstrates that there are no win bonuses at Old Trafford.

In summary for Woof, LFC, Chelsea and City's salaries are the same basic with the player choosing where he wants to play basis the value and likelihood of win bonuses.
Chelsea have spent £28m more than us over the last 3 seasons, most of it wasted on Lukaku. We can't complain there.
Man City have splashed out £150m over 3 seasons more than us, ie ONE good player per season - squad rotation! Getting rid of dead wood!
Man Utd have spent £250m more than us over 3 seasons showing their desperation plus pay an average £90 thousand a week more than the LFC squad. Unsustainable.

Hope all above is clear why we struggle to keep up with City on the field, they have a transfer policy that allows them to bring in one squad improvement player every season

[red till i die!!]

City have money but they can only spend according to the rules. They did break those same rules at one point but there isn't a chance they are still at it as they would have eyes all over their dealings.

Well lets be honest they bend the rules. If you look at who the main sponsors are for City it is Abu Dhabi companies such as Etihad. All these companies are state owned and there is no way Etihad can for instance afford the sort money they are giving city, especially since Covid. The money is coming from the owner but channelled through these companies as a legit sponsorship.

[woof woof !]

In summary for Woof

   

Cheers Reg 

[red till i die!!]

City have money but they can only spend according to the rules. They did break those same rules at one point but there isn't a chance they are still at it as they would have eyes all over their dealings.

Well lets be honest they bend the rules. If you look at who the main sponsors are for City it is Abu Dhabi companies such as Etihad. All these companies are state owned and there is no way Etihad can for instance afford the sort money they are giving city, especially since Covid. The money is coming from the owner but channelled through these companies as a legit sponsorship.

Thing is Boo that there is no evidence to suggest that they are. American business support each other just like middle Eastern and should an Irish lad aquire a club he would attract Irish sponsorship. Nothing illegal about that.

I think they are just a better run club mate. Saying they are cheating is just sour grapes from fans imo. According to the governing bodies their house is in order and so is their accounts so obviously they are doing something better than us.

We are the bigger club but yet spend like we are paupers. Our Net spend is 15mil a season compared to their 70 so while I don't expect us to match them I do expect us to be able to afford at least 40 per year. We have nothing Mate, Jota only arrived here because wolves would accept the fee over 5 years and we made money after signing Konate.  FSG just don't want to spend anything and when they do it will always be offset by something else. 

We need to look at our own house and our own policies rather than spreading rumours about City to justify our own shortcomings.

[red till i die!!]

Blinkin 'ek Woof, I'd expect Tommy Smith to struggle with it but not you!

Transfers 2019, 20 and 21 (3 seasons) since we won the CL in Madrid:
Liverpool
Total Income          £80.28
Total Expenditure £119.75
Net                         -£40.16

Manchester City
Total Income          £217.31
Total Expenditure £413.19
Net                         -£196.02

Manchester United
Total Income          £118.24
Total Expenditure £412.74
Net                         -£294.49

Chelsea
Total Income          £302.96
Total Expenditure £370.98
Net                         -£68.02

Salaries per week of top 12 players per club:
Liverpool
Average 28.1 £160,000

Manchester City
Average 25.5 £190,000

Manchester United
Average 27.5 £270,000

Chelsea
Average 25.4 £188,000

LFC spent £15m per season more than we received in transfers which lacks ambition or fails to build on success. Lucky to make top 4 basis spending 15 million a season....
Overall, I'd be happy to follow City, with an aggressive £70 million a season over income to ensure they stay on top. CL and EPL earnings will easily offset that.
ManU's crazy salary structure demonstrates that there are no win bonuses at Old Trafford.

In summary for Woof, LFC, Chelsea and City's salaries are the same basic with the player choosing where he wants to play basis the value and likelihood of win bonuses.
Chelsea have spent £28m more than us over the last 3 seasons, most of it wasted on Lukaku. We can't complain there.
Man City have splashed out £150m over 3 seasons more than us, ie ONE good player per season - squad rotation! Getting rid of dead wood!
Man Utd have spent £250m more than us over 3 seasons showing their desperation plus pay an average £90 thousand a week more than the LFC squad. Unsustainable.

Hope all above is clear why we struggle to keep up with City on the field, they have a transfer policy that allows them to bring in one squad improvement player every season

Good post Reg.

[Eagle]

Firstly, I'm pretty sure John Henry and co don't micro manage to the point where they are involved with negotiating player contracts. They will probably set the overall budget for payroll, which seems to be 50-60% of revenue, but it's not as though they are saying "yeah let's give Ox 120k a week but I don't think Salah is worth 450k a week". It's up to Klopp and Edwards to decide how to manage the budget even if someone at FSG has final sign-off on big financial commitments.

Secondly, no one really knows what Salah is asking for. When van Djik signed his new contract it was reported that he became our highest earner on a basic wage of £220k, going ahead of Salah who is reported to be on £200k a week. So if we give Salah £400-450k a week, then Edwards and Klopp will have to deal with the likes of van Djik, Fabinho, Alisson, Trent, etc, and their agents wanting something much closer to Salah. Then there is also length of contract. Salah turns 30 in June, and if you give a 30 year old a 5 year contract based on what he's worth now in his prime, you have to accept there is a pretty high risk that you will be over paying him in the final 2 years of his contract. We've all seen what's happening with Bale at Madrid. Klopp has also mentioned Salah's agent a couple of times recently so I wonder if his fee is one of the stumbling blocks.

In any big negotiation in any walk of life, brinkmanship is part of the process, as both parties look after their own interests. If it's purely about money, Salah will head off to PSG. And from our perspective we have to keep in mind squad harmony and composition while trying to hang onto our biggest and most high profile player. I think it's more likely to get done than not as there seems to be plenty of good will from both sides but we shouldn't keep him at all costs.