Liverpool FC Forum

[tonyeh]

Cant say I totally agree Ciggy.

Rafa cant take all the blame, but as manager he has to take responsibility.

If we're gonna win the league we need to win those games. Remember last season?
We drew far too many at home, it fecked us.

After Stoke, Rafa should have got his thinking cap on big time.
After Fulham, he had to make sure it wasn't repeated.
The fans are getting too fukkin tense too and its affecting the players,
our players are Premiership virgins, they need to be treated gently

Above all, he needs to sort his subbing policy out.

[devaney]

Tonyeh - what did you say - "I simply cannot imagine that Chelsea, Utd or even today's Arsenal would have had that much possession and not at least got a goal against the hammers last night"

Well just take a look at the stats for the Chelsea v Newcastle game that was played on 22nd Nov this year - Chelsea had 33 shots and 9 on target - Newcastle had 2 shots and neither were on target. Try convincing me that Newcastle are any better than West Ham - you won't!  Chelsea also let things slip against Arsenal after leading 1-0. Chelsea's home record this season is also not very clever and if it continues it will not win them the league.

If ever there was a time to get behind our team it is now. The BOOING doesn't help. Cheering the team on when they are struggling does! The KOP made more noise about freeing Michael Shields than getting behind the team last night and the BOOS at the end - well shame on them they don't deserve to see the team win anything - THEY ARE NOT TRUE SUPPORTERS !!
It is a very many seasons since Liverpool have been top of the League and I fully appreciate that some of it hasn't been pretty. Surely that would suggest that we can get better? Listening to Ian St.John moaning that the board must give Rafa the funds that he needs in January to secure the title! Rafa has spent virtually the same as Ferguson over the last 4/5 years - circa £26m a year and that takes into account the players he has sold. Rafa has had massive support from the board since he came to Anfield - St.John and a few others need to stop whinging and appreciate what we have got. Rafa through some awful team selection got himself into a right mess during the early stages of last seasons Champions League. If we had gone out during the group stages I think he would only have himself to blame if he had been sacked. He is still learning. Look were we are now in the CL and the title race.Let's do our job and support them and leave them to do theirs. The team are under more pressure than they have been for a very long time - WE CAN HELP!

The difference is Chelsea looked like they were going to win. They created clear cut chance after clear cut chance. We have a couple of half chances. Thats about it.

I know it's frustrating but let's keep it real. Your so negative it is frightening. A new breed of supporter is emerging and it is ugly. Anfield used to be worth a goal but now it is full of moaners who don't get behind the team.

For the record at Anfield: Stoke we had 30 shots of which 6 were on target and Stoke had 2 and none were on target. Fulham we had 22 shots and 6 were on target and Fulham had 6 and 5 were on target. W.Ham we had 25 shots and 6 were on target and W.Ham had 7 shots and 2 were on target. Teams will inevitably make it very difficult for Liverpool at Anfield but you are blind if you think the same thing isn't happening to Chelsea. Chelsea's home record is a lot worse than Liverpool's this season and yet they still have to put up with supporters   like you moaning and whineing about anything and everything. TAKE A LOOK AT THE TABLE!

No insults here mate - just a few meaningful stats that you seem to ignore. Does your negative attitude simply extend to the people that insult you.
You accuse people of being childish. IF WE COULD GET RID OF CHILDISH AND EXCESSIVELY NEGATIVE members then the forum would be a better place - LIKE ANFIELD!

[LegBarnes]

Can I not be critical of the team or the current situation?

Top of the League

It doesn't get any worse than that....

If we win the League Rafa should be sacked and the whole squad sold...

If we add the European Cup then Anfield needs to be levelled and the ground used for housing, the club resign from the Premier league and told to join the Zingari league   

It's great being "top of the league", but it can and should be better.

We are a single point above Chelsea, we have fluffed the chances to pull away to a more comfortable position with three "easy" games.

We have a strong Utd catching up on us, with a game in hand.

Chelsea have a ridiculous goal difference that'll show us up if they draw level again.

Neither of those sides have the troubles up front we have, even if they have had their own blips of late.

We've shown that we still have a lot of problems breaking teams down, even with the lions share of possession.

With Torres out, our attacking options are very limited, in fact one could say they are nearly nil at the moment. One of them keeps getting taken out of the game on the hour, the other is dumped out onto the left side of midfield.

And even with Torres playing, we have had trouble getting goals. The service from midfield has been terrible, to say the least.

We have a weak fullback situation, with Dossena being particularly chronic.

At times, we have looked depressingly average and few of our games have been won in a convincing manner.

I'd like to see all of the above change and so do the rest of you.

Its true and i am at result but look at league this year ffs there is no easy games.

Any time below 10th could still get the drop and i don't see things changing the prem is wide open this year any one could win it. 

[bigmick]

They aren't really meaningful stats though Delaney to be honest. What do they indicate? that we were on top in the aforementioned games? That isn't really the issue here to be totally fair, and is no more than you would expect.  Also when you say we had 25 shots against West Ham, it gives the misleading impression that we peppered their goal for 90 minutes. Even if we did it matters not a jot, one chance and one goal would have done me.

You are correct that some people are too negative, but the only "stat" which matters is when you pop it in the onion bag. Concerns that we don't look more like doing that despite having 25 shots in some matches are entirely understandable.

[Effes]

IF WE COULD GET RID OF CHILDISH AND EXCESSIVELY NEGATIVE members then the forum would be a better place - LIKE ANFIELD!

Anfield IS negative at the moment!

[Petar]

I just dont get some of you on this forum, we all love our club but we must not be so blind not to think that something is wrong, i am not talking about our owners.

If and members have seen any of our last 3 games they will know that our team has a problem.
it might be down to some bad buys or even about selling some players that should not have been sold.

I would like to ask some members this.

Do you think Rafa is doing his homework on teams like West Ham?

I know a lot of West Ham fans could not understand why we did not go wide the other night as they know they are weak there.

and this.

looking at whats happend in the prem this year with the top clubs (finding it hard to win some games) are big name players they way to go? are they more about the fame and money than winning?

Spot on. So much problems in our team. If we want some creativity and fluidity we should play J Pennant,R Babel,Kuyt,Keane... It is much better attacking combo than keane,kuyt,benny,riera-these are too slow. Rafa is too stubborn

[dawson99]

What I don't get si why, when there are like 2 minutes, do we suddenly go for it and oooh almost score. If we did it from the get go we'd win more right?

Just not enough fight and pressure til it's too late lately

[tonyeh]

double post

[tonyeh]

Tonyeh - what did you say - "I simply cannot imagine that Chelsea, Utd or even today's Arsenal would have had that much possession and not at least got a goal against the hammers last night"

Well just take a look at the stats for the Chelsea v Newcastle game that was played on 22nd Nov this year - Chelsea had 33 shots and 9 on target - Newcastle had 2 shots and neither were on target. Try convincing me that Newcastle are any better than West Ham - you won't!  Chelsea also let things slip against Arsenal after leading 1-0. Chelsea's home record this season is also not very clever and if it continues it will not win them the league.

If ever there was a time to get behind our team it is now. The BOOING doesn't help. Cheering the team on when they are struggling does! The KOP made more noise about freeing Michael Shields than getting behind the team last night and the BOOS at the end - well shame on them they don't deserve to see the team win anything - THEY ARE NOT TRUE SUPPORTERS !!
It is a very many seasons since Liverpool have been top of the League and I fully appreciate that some of it hasn't been pretty. Surely that would suggest that we can get better? Listening to Ian St.John moaning that the board must give Rafa the funds that he needs in January to secure the title! Rafa has spent virtually the same as Ferguson over the last 4/5 years - circa £26m a year and that takes into account the players he has sold. Rafa has had massive support from the board since he came to Anfield - St.John and a few others need to stop whinging and appreciate what we have got. Rafa through some awful team selection got himself into a right mess during the early stages of last seasons Champions League. If we had gone out during the group stages I think he would only have himself to blame if he had been sacked. He is still learning. Look were we are now in the CL and the title race.Let's do our job and support them and leave them to do theirs. The team are under more pressure than they have been for a very long time - WE CAN HELP!

The difference is Chelsea looked like they were going to win. They created clear cut chance after clear cut chance. We have a couple of half chances. Thats about it.

I know it's frustrating but let's keep it real. Your so negative it is frightening. A new breed of supporter is emerging and it is ugly. Anfield used to be worth a goal but now it is full of moaners who don't get behind the team.

For the record at Anfield: Stoke we had 30 shots of which 6 were on target and Stoke had 2 and none were on target. Fulham we had 22 shots and 6 were on target and Fulham had 6 and 5 were on target. W.Ham we had 25 shots and 6 were on target and W.Ham had 7 shots and 2 were on target. Teams will inevitably make it very difficult for Liverpool at Anfield but you are blind if you think the same thing isn't happening to Chelsea. Chelsea's home record is a lot worse than Liverpool's this season and yet they still have to put up with supporters   like you moaning and whineing about anything and everything. TAKE A LOOK AT THE TABLE!

No insults here mate - just a few meaningful stats that you seem to ignore. Does your negative attitude simply extend to the people that insult you.
You accuse people of being childish. IF WE COULD GET RID OF CHILDISH AND EXCESSIVELY NEGATIVE members then the forum would be a better place - LIKE ANFIELD!

I don't believe Stu called anyone "childish", so I assume you are talking to me.

I don't ignore stats, but stats aren't everything and should be taken with a pinch of salt. 22 shots doesn't mean a damn thing. They could be 22 shots each 5 orr 10 foot over the bar. It's still counted as a "shot on goal".

It's the quality of shooting that people need to draw their conclusion from and that's what I'm interested in. That can only be assessed by watching the games and if anyone's honest, they must draw the conclusion that the shooting has been, by and large, terrible.

The simple fact is, is that in the West Ham game, every so called shot on goal was NEVER going in, except the one saved by Rob Green. Bar that, Liverpool created nothing.

And it's not about "not getting behind the team". We'll all be looking at the game and cheering on. But, in the cold light of day, it makes sense to assess the very real problems that exist at the moment.

The very fact that there are a number of posts outlining problems mean that they exist.

If Liverpool were 6 points better off and had less problems breaking teams down and finishing, there wouldn't be critical posts, would there?

[Toffeehater]

The reality is that people are neither a disgrace nor a wind-up merchant for being concerned that we are continually having trouble breaking down mediocre teams.

Undoubtedly true, mate, but tell me, how are we meant to take posters who suggest that:

-Rafa's a "fecking idiot" who's trying to stick it to the poor fans and should be bombed out in favour of Harry Redknapp

OR

-Rafa's a clown that should be sacked at this stage so we can get Kenny Dalglish in to salvage the season

OR

-There's only a Big Three in the Premiership and we're not part of it because of the gulf in class between us and Arsenal/Chelsea/Man U


When I read stuff like that it's hard not to conclude that the poster in question is completely blinkered or on a wind-up. 

Again, I ask, do you REALLY believe there isn't a class difference between Liverpool and the other three?

Honestly?

Hold on a second here! Who the f*ck done United and Chelsea already this season? What was it, 4 or 5 years unbeaten at home Chelsea were? Who done them? That's right, we f*cking did. Who knocked Arsenal out of the CL last year and Chelsea 2 seasons running, and should have been three, before it? Was that us? Oh, yeah - that's right, I think it was. Who's top of the table? Oops, that's us again. You'd have had a slight point last season with the other two, but don't keep suggesting Arsenal are a class above us, because that's just a myth. Again, Arsenal have done f*ck all worth of merit the past 4 seasons to be worthy of being knocked with them.

Big fuckin deal. So we got some lucky breaks with the goals in the Utd and Chelsea games...so what?

That still doesn't change the fact, yes THE FACT, that they are stronger teams than Liverpool. By a large margin.

In the case of the Chelsea game, Alonso go a LUCKY deflection.

That's DEFLECTION.

Liverpool then spent the rest of the game with two rows of four defending that lucky in off.

So Liverpool knocked Arsenal out of the CL, so what?

Spurs tore Liverpool a new a couple of weeks ago, does that make them a better team than Liverpool? Of course it doesn't.

The other three teams play better flowing football, they can attack and finish with convincing moves and they have put up a challenge for the title in the last few years.

If you cannot, or will not see the obvious difference in quality between the teams in question, then you you just shouldn't be talking about football at all.

Having a love for Liverpool is one thing, but if it obscures the obvious, then your opinion isn't worth listening too.

Liverpool are EXTREMELY lucky to be where they are at the moment. 90% of the games have been touch and go and the recent draws against the so called "Lesser Teams" is just reality landing down on our heads with a thump. Bar Everton and West Brom, we haven't really beaten anyone with real conviction and the includes the much touted Utd and Chelsea games.

We're on top by a single point, that's all. It's December.

Frankly, I'm not expecting much out of the Blackburn game and will take a boring 1-0 snorefest, just to keep the mickey mouse gap we have.

We have played manu off the park whenever we have played them and they have always got the lucky goal right at the death . We have beaten chelsea twice in the champions league , last season they got a little luck their way .


Spurs tore us a new because we were playing a 2nd team against a 1st team spurs . They took their chances in the league game against us and that matters .


Arsenal for all their beautiful football have won all now have they? What have they to show for their lovely football and slcik passing? A emirates cup?

Luck plays its part , chelsea were grinding out victories in their first season like that under mourinho and they won the title . If we keep playing like that and getting 3 points , i won't be complaining and i'm sure neither will you

[tonyeh]

The reality is that people are neither a disgrace nor a wind-up merchant for being concerned that we are continually having trouble breaking down mediocre teams.

Undoubtedly true, mate, but tell me, how are we meant to take posters who suggest that:

-Rafa's a "fecking idiot" who's trying to stick it to the poor fans and should be bombed out in favour of Harry Redknapp

OR

-Rafa's a clown that should be sacked at this stage so we can get Kenny Dalglish in to salvage the season

OR

-There's only a Big Three in the Premiership and we're not part of it because of the gulf in class between us and Arsenal/Chelsea/Man U


When I read stuff like that it's hard not to conclude that the poster in question is completely blinkered or on a wind-up. 

Again, I ask, do you REALLY believe there isn't a class difference between Liverpool and the other three?

Honestly?

Hold on a second here! Who the f*ck done United and Chelsea already this season? What was it, 4 or 5 years unbeaten at home Chelsea were? Who done them? That's right, we f*cking did. Who knocked Arsenal out of the CL last year and Chelsea 2 seasons running, and should have been three, before it? Was that us? Oh, yeah - that's right, I think it was. Who's top of the table? Oops, that's us again. You'd have had a slight point last season with the other two, but don't keep suggesting Arsenal are a class above us, because that's just a myth. Again, Arsenal have done f*ck all worth of merit the past 4 seasons to be worthy of being knocked with them.

Big fuckin deal. So we got some lucky breaks with the goals in the Utd and Chelsea games...so what?

That still doesn't change the fact, yes THE FACT, that they are stronger teams than Liverpool. By a large margin.

In the case of the Chelsea game, Alonso go a LUCKY deflection.

That's DEFLECTION.

Liverpool then spent the rest of the game with two rows of four defending that lucky in off.

So Liverpool knocked Arsenal out of the CL, so what?

Spurs tore Liverpool a new a couple of weeks ago, does that make them a better team than Liverpool? Of course it doesn't.

The other three teams play better flowing football, they can attack and finish with convincing moves and they have put up a challenge for the title in the last few years.

If you cannot, or will not see the obvious difference in quality between the teams in question, then you you just shouldn't be talking about football at all.

Having a love for Liverpool is one thing, but if it obscures the obvious, then your opinion isn't worth listening too.

Liverpool are EXTREMELY lucky to be where they are at the moment. 90% of the games have been touch and go and the recent draws against the so called "Lesser Teams" is just reality landing down on our heads with a thump. Bar Everton and West Brom, we haven't really beaten anyone with real conviction and the includes the much touted Utd and Chelsea games.

We're on top by a single point, that's all. It's December.

Frankly, I'm not expecting much out of the Blackburn game and will take a boring 1-0 snorefest, just to keep the mickey mouse gap we have.

We have played manu off the park whenever we have played them and they have always got the lucky goal right at the death . We have beaten chelsea twice in the champions league , last season they got a little luck their way .


Spurs tore us a new because we were playing a 2nd team against a 1st team spurs . They took their chances in the league game against us and that matters .


Arsenal for all their beautiful football have won all now have they? What have they to show for their lovely football and slcik passing? A emirates cup?

Luck plays its part , chelsea were grinding out victories in their first season like that under mourinho and they won the title . If we keep playing like that and getting 3 points , i won't be complaining and i'm sure neither will you

We may put it up to Utd during some games, but it still will not change the fact that they are generally a stronger team than Liverpool and have been throughout the Premiership's existence and we haven't "We have played manu off the park whenever we have played them...", they slaughtered us last year 3-0. Facts are facts, you won't get away from that.

Likewise, Arsenal may have not won much in recent times, but they have won the Premiership 3 times and they have finished first or second for most of Wenger's tenure.

Chelsea have also won the premiership twice and continually do well in the competition.

Liverpool have never won the Premiership (they've rarely even made a serious challenge) and at times have struggled to get to fourth place and over the premiership's history have had their share of team problems and in various forms have been a very, very average side indeed.

My point about Spurs, is that just because a team beats another team doesn't mean that the winning team is a generally stronger unit. You seem to have missed that.

I certainly won't be complaining about Liverpool's first Premiership win, of course not. I'm not complaining about being on top of the table at the moment, or the fact that we are actually making a challenge this year.

What I am pointing out, is the obvious problems that the club is facing at present.

[Toffeehater]

Tonyeh -

We have played manu off the park whenever we played them. Last season their first goal was a foul mate . Masch was unfairly sent off and thats where we lost the plot . These season we played well against them without two of our best players , torres and gerrard also out two leading goal scorers last season . They have more strength in dept than us but our first 11 is comparable to theirs . Their defense is stronger than ours but our midfield and their is about the same maybe their wide man are better but our strikers are better than theirs .

Arsenal won the championship when they had henry a great player and when they had loads of senior players in ther side . Martin keown , pires , viera and of course henry and at that time they played simple football and not the kind they are playing now .

We have never won the premier league but we have won the champions league under rafa in his first season , which fergie took half his career to do and only won his first major trophy in his 7th season . We have made it to two finals and were unlucky not to win the 2nd although some will say we were fortunate to pull of such a coup with the first .

The problems are evident but not as bad as some of us are making out . We are top of the league , although we could be further ahead but we have beaten the mancs and chelsea this season .

[supersub]

They aren't really meaningful stats though Delaney to be honest. What do they indicate? that we were on top in the aforementioned games? That isn't really the issue here to be totally fair, and is no more than you would expect.  Also when you say we had 25 shots against West Ham, it gives the misleading impression that we peppered their goal for 90 minutes. Even if we did it matters not a jot, one chance and one goal would have done me.

You are correct that some people are too negative, but the only "stat" which matters is when you pop it in the onion bag. Concerns that we don't look more like doing that despite having 25 shots in some matches are entirely understandable.

I agree stats don't mean much......my philosphy is reach the top and keep plugging away to make sure you finish there and thinking about who has played who at what point of the season and who's had it easy and who's had it tough, means little...

Can't see Fergie thinking "at least we've got an easy run in for the rest of the season" 

[supersub]

I don't believe Stu called anyone "childish",

Stu doesn't use such aggressive language

[supersub]

If Liverpool were 6 points better off and had less problems breaking teams down and finishing, there wouldn't be critical posts, would there?

Yes there would because thats the nature of the beast