Liverpool FC Forum

[supersub]

As far as using "They", Bob, I sometimes feel uncomfortable about saying "we", only because I am not on the pitch week in, week out.

When I say "They", it's out of respect for the lads doing the work.

Now I always feel that the team,the club and the fans are a collective unit and therefore use the words we and us, when talking about Liverpool Football Club. It is apparent in the pubs around the ground, before the game, that the fans I talk too use the same terminology and it is usually the other fans of opposition teams, who resort too the word "they" or even you, when talking about "my" team.

[supersub]

I was happy in the haze of a drunken hour but heaven knows Im miserable now

It's the end of the world as we know it

You win some, lose some, it's all the same to me

"things can only get better"

[aCe']

As far as using "They", Bob, I sometimes feel uncomfortable about saying "we", only because I am not on the pitch week in, week out.

When I say "They", it's out of respect for the lads doing the work.

Now I always feel that the team,the club and the fans are a collective unit and therefore use the words we and us, when talking about Liverpool Football Club. It is apparent in the pubs around the ground, before the game, that the fans I talk too use the same terminology and it is usually the other fans of opposition teams, who resort too the word "they" or even you, when talking about "my" team.

oh give it a break wont ya !

what are you trying to prove here ?!

[Dundalk]

Setanta coverege the other night of the Liverpool game was sp bad that they have been forced to come up with a new logo

[dawson99]

Oi, any coverage that doesn't involve Andy f*king Grey is better coverage if you ask me. Setanta far betetr than sky, altho it dont matter who puts the game on if the game itself is sh!t

[Dundalk]

They been better if you can see the game Dawson! I missed most of the first have because the screen went blank!! Every other channel was fine except Setanta

[dawson99]

my setanta was perfect:p

[Dundalk]

Thats cuz your rich with winnings

[Roger Red Hat]

ive just farted and it really smells bad

[Bad Bob]

They been better if you can see the game Dawson! I missed most of the first have because the screen went blank!! Every other channel was fine except Setanta

There were obviously loads of complaints, mate, as they had a very carefully polished disclaimer to read later on in the 2nd half.  Weather in Europe...completely not their fault...sorry if it affected your enjoyment...yadda yadda yadda!   Ironically, I saw every second of the game in Canada when you would have thought weather problems at source would have affected us as well?

[Emerald Red]

As far as using "They", Bob, I sometimes feel uncomfortable about saying "we", only because I am not on the pitch week in, week out.

When I say "They", it's out of respect for the lads doing the work.

Now I always feel that the team,the club and the fans are a collective unit and therefore use the words we and us, when talking about Liverpool Football Club. It is apparent in the pubs around the ground, before the game, that the fans I talk too use the same terminology and it is usually the other fans of opposition teams, who resort too the word "they" or even you, when talking about "my" team.

oh give it a break wont ya !

what are you trying to prove here ?!

A point? I dunno. 

[Emerald Red]

Setanta coverege the other night of the Liverpool game was sp bad that they have been forced to come up with a new logo

Yeah, wasn't it just. I imagined that some silly eejit was drunk somewhere in a darkened room fiddling about in the dark with a loose wire trying to get the picture back. Fecking Irish, eh? Can't get nothing right. 

[Bad Bob]

Can I not be critical of the team or the current situation?

Top of the League

It doesn't get any worse than that....

If we win the League Rafa should be sacked and the whole squad sold...

If we add the European Cup then Anfield needs to be levelled and the ground used for housing, the club resign from the Premier league and told to join the Zingari league   

It's great being "top of the league", but it can and should be better.

We are a single point above Chelsea, we have fluffed the chances to pull away to a more comfortable position with three "easy" games.

We have a strong Utd catching up on us, with a game in hand.

Chelsea have a ridiculous goal difference that'll show us up if they draw level again.

Neither of those sides have the troubles up front we have, even if they have had their own blips of late.

We've shown that we still have a lot of problems breaking teams down, even with the lions share of possession.

With Torres out, our attacking options are very limited, in fact one could say they are nearly nil at the moment. One of them keeps getting taken out of the game on the hour, the other is dumped out onto the left side of midfield.

And even with Torres playing, we have had trouble getting goals. The service from midfield has been terrible, to say the least.

We have a weak fullback situation, with Dossena being particularly chronic.

At times, we have looked depressingly average and few of our games have been won in a convincing manner.

I'd like to see all of the above change and so do the rest of you.

Thing is, Tony, there's fair criticism and then there's OTT nonsense.  What you've posted here is fair criticism that we can all agree with.  When you start talking about a sizeable gulf in class between us and the "Big Three" or bang on about how lucky we were to beat the Mancs and Chelsea--as though we didn't deserve to win those games--you're going over the top and will get pulled up for it.  Throw in the fact that most people can't remember the last time you've said anything positive about the lads and your occasional use of "they" to refer to Liverpool and you give the distinct impression of being here on a wind-up.  Maybe you're not.  Maybe you're a genuine Liverpool supporter who prefers to focus on what needs fixing rather than on what's gone well but the more you bang on about lucky wins against a superior "Big Three" the more doubt you'll cast about your true loyalty.

Bob, there is no "deserve". That means nothing. the team that gets the ball in the net wins the game, no matter what. "Deserve" really has nothing to do with it.

As far as the Utd game is concerned, Liverpool won because Wes Brown gifted them an OG and Babel mis-kicked the ball past Van Der Sar. They were fortunate goals that sealed the deal, even if Liverpool played well. Without that fortune, we'd be talking about yet another Liverpool loss to our greatest rivals.

Likewise, the Chelsea game was decided by a very fortunate deflection from Alsonso's shot, that Cech couldn't possibly have done anything about.

These results, while unbelievably great, are no indication of which teams are generally stronger season in, season out. The are certainly no indication of Liverpool's performance's this season, which despite the present position, have generally been poor.

As I said before, the last three 0-0 draws and the defeat to Spurs is just reality landing down with a nasty bump and without Torres in the side, I cannot see a way past the inability to finish off teams with goals.

As many people have pointed out to you already, own goals, fortunate deflections, dodgy calls etc. are part of football and they are certainly the foundations for a fair few wins that the Mancs, Chelsea and Arsenal have enjoyed down the years...including against us in matches where we were in decent form (the 3-0 loss at Old Trafford last year was not one of those matches, as we were very poor, but there have been others where we were the better side on the day).  Despite this, you seem to be suggesting that the other 3 play pure, elegant, flowing football at every turn while we require a dodgy deflection and a stalwart rearguard action to turn them over.  It's just not true.

Now, as for the gulf in class you're talking about, I'll be the first to admit that our side is not packed with nearly as many potential match winners as Man U, Chelsea and even Arsenal but you can't deny that we're in the same league as these sides in terms of getting results, especially this season.  That is largely built on one of the most miserly defenses in the league--a fact that everyone seems to suggest is some negative but is, in reality, the foundation of our success and something we should celebrate.  Going forward we rely a bit too much on Gerrard and Torres but, then again, the Mancs rely pretty heavily on Ronaldo and Rooney, Arsenal on Adebayor and Fabregas, and Chelsea on Drogba (or Anelka, at the moment) and Lampard.  Personally, I think our best 11 is a match for any 11 in the league.  Where we run into trouble is with our squad, which is nowhere near as good as Man U or Chelsea's (Arsenal is more debatable but they probably edge it).  But, is there an overall gulf in class such that there's a "Big Three" above us and we're on the outside looking in?  Not in my book and the table backs me up on that.

[zarababe]

Just read the article posted by Nan Re: negative impact of supporters - I was thinking the same thing - this seems to be a wide phenomenon and other clubs are playing better away from home too.

Of course we expect certain results - but in our current position can we really complain

lets not be one of the reasons for losing it ay

[tonyeh]

As many people have pointed out to you already, own goals, fortunate deflections, dodgy calls etc. are part of football and they are certainly the foundations for a fair few wins that the Mancs, Chelsea and Arsenal have enjoyed down the years...including against us in matches where we were in decent form (the 3-0 loss at Old Trafford last year was not one of those matches, as we were very poor, but there have been others where we were the better side on the day)

Nowhere have I said that fortune plays no part in football, either for Liverpool or Anyone else. Let that be clear. All teams enjoy the benefit of luck now and again.

Despite this, you seem to be suggesting that the other 3 play pure, elegant, flowing football at every turn while we require a dodgy deflection and a stalwart rearguard action to turn them over.  It's just not true.

I haven't said that the others are constantly elegant and flawless either.

What I have said is they are generally stronger sides. Their form is usually better and they have won the Premiership.

This opinion isn't plucked out of thin air, nor does it do me any pleasure to say it.

It is, however, a fact and I nor anyone else can get away from that.

i'm not breaking any new ground here in admitting that Man Utd usually field a better team than Liverpool am I? Even today, with the best Liverpool side for a long time, we can really on say that three players  would make it into the other "big four" teams and we all know who they are.

Whether we like it or not, there is a difference in class between the other three and Liverpool. maybe it's not so pronounced this season with Arsenal.

Nor have I said the Liverpool "require" a fortunate deflection if they are to beat those teams...but...in the case of this season's games against Man Utd and Chelsea, the fortunate goals, an OG, a mis-kick and a deflection made the result and by that yardstick, they are not a decent reflection on Liverpool's current form or ambition for the title this year. Without the luck involved in the goals, those games end in a draw or loss with Utd and a 0-0 draw at Chelsea.

If Liverpool had scored 2 goals from well crafted open play, then those wins would mean a lot more to me. As it stands, it's great to win over our title challengers, but other than that, they're not something I want take any more from.

Now, as for the gulf in class you're talking about, I'll be the first to admit that our side is not packed with nearly as many potential match winners as Man U, Chelsea and even Arsenal but you can't deny that we're in the same league as these sides in terms of getting results, especially this season.

Yes, there is a change in the weather this season and it's been a long time coming. But we've been here before. Only last season, it was touted as being "Liverpool's year", just like the season before. But Liverpool get to Christmas and then the rot starts to set in. That has a lot of people naturally worried. There's no much of a margin for error in the Premiership and dropping points to the likes of Stoke, Fulham and West Ham and losing to an incredibly poor Spurs is setting off the alarm bells.

People may not like the idea that I don't see a "big four", but that is the way I see it. There's only a notion of a big four because of the opening up of the Champions League anyway. Without that, it means very little.

But looking at form and lineup over the years, it's clear that Liverpool are a step behind Utd and Chelsea, but perhaps on par with this years Arsenal. It's only last year we finally bought a quality striker. Before that we were putting up with the Heskeys', Douf's and Cisse's, who were nowhere near the quality afforded by our rivals.

But I won't be fooled by the position that Liverpool presently occupies. All is not well, either on the pitch or off and I cannot simply ignore the problems.

We find it incredibly hard to break down teams, we don't create many real goal scoring chances, we don't hold onto possession, the service to the forwards is very poor, our finishing is patchy at best and our passing has been awful (and historically Liverpool have been known for their passing game).

Hopefully, once Torres is fit, we'll find a vein of really decent form and start beating the opposition with some convincing victories, but as I've said...without him, I simply cannot see where the goals are coming from.

But it still means that we are essentially Torres'n'Gerrard FC for the most part, whereas the others have bigger pool of quality to draw from.