Liverpool FC Forum

[god_bless_john_houlding]

This places gets more and more like a school yard every day. Bullies, people telling teacher what the bully said, secrets pms and places only the "cool kids" can go to. Where's the annual outing, Southport?

Don't forget your dinner kids.

[bigmick]

P>S mick here is what you said of rafa and his buying abilities

big mick Posted: June 26 2007,12:34

No, in all seriousness there is absolutely no comparison for me. Benitez annoys me intensely with his ludicrous rotation policy and ultra defensive tactics, but he has done wonders in the transfer market in my opinion.

It's a good quote, and even better if considered in context. Where I said that the was "no comparison", I was talking about between the buys of Houllier and Benitez. No doubt you knew that but chose to omit the fact hoping that by inference it looks like I'm comparing Rafa and Wenger.

I'm flattered that soomebody would take it upon themselves to quote me from seven months ago though, even if it was completely out of context.

[bigmick]

Now in the time Rafa has been rebuilding a team whilst keeping Gerrard and Carragher as the fulcrum of his side, Wenger has rebuilt the whole unit from top to bottom. During that period he did reach a Champions League final where they lost to a very good Barcelona team, and I'm not sure but I've a feeling they won the FA Cup as well. They didn't though win the Champions League like we did, and we did finish third to their fourth in two seasons. If we look at what we have and where we are now though, surely the sensible comparisons end there? Wenger has built from scratch a young team which is in severe danger of winning the Premiershipand has spent a fraction of what we have in the process.

Flamini - signed July 2004, Fabregas - signed Sept 2003, Toure - signed February 2002, Senderos - signed December 2002, Van PErsie - signed MAy 2004, Djourou - signed 2003, Almunia - signed July 2004, Bendtner - signed June 2004.

Rafa Benitez became Liverpool manager - June 2004.

How many of the above are in the first team ?

Hardly a fair comparrison now is it ?

Gerrard-Here before Benitez got here.

Carragher-Here before Benitez got here.

Riise-Here before Benitez got here.

Finnan-Here before Benitez got here.

I've only included those players which have been regulars (well as much regulars as you can be while Benitez is the manager) and indeed still are. I could have arguably included Hyppia as well, and more arguably Kewell as well (although at his best I would have thought most would agree he is still our best left sided midfielder) but as they wouldn't figure in a first choice eleven at the moment I've left them out.

You're right in one sense. Given Benitez inherited the services of the best midfielder in the League and still has his services, the comparison probably is unfair but not perhaps in the way you indicate.

I've said in an earlier post, why don't we just leave Wenger out of it? I'm not going to criticise Rafa for spending four times as much as the Arsenal man and building a team which isn't as good, because the Frenchman is a bit of a one off. Lets compare our mananger to people like Martin O Neil, Sven Goran Erikkson,Harry Redknapp and David Moyes. Lets compare our manager to the managers of the clubs we are actually competing with for fourth spot. Lets look at how much they've spent over how much we've spent. lets look at the fact that we were fourth four years ago and if we do really well we'll be fourth again this year. Lets not delude ourselves though here and talk about Bill Shankly and Arsene Wenger or we'll only get ourselves all disappointed.

Disclaimer- I don't sy this to be disloyal, a knee jerker or whatever, and nor do I think we should make Sam Allardyce the manager. I am infact not disclaimerist 

[god_bless_john_houlding]

Here we go again with the old money debate. I hear that the reason we can't go above United or Chelsea is down to money, yet Spurs and Newcastle outspend us and we comfortably finish above them. The reason I'm told that is, is because we have a better manager. Right, on that theory, is Daivd Moyes a better manager than Benitez, because he's spent less than us yet performing better. I still stand by the decision that money doesn't buy you the title. QPR in the Championship have been bought by a man richer than Ambrovich. They have an open cheque book, yet are not top of the league. Money HASN'T AND NEVER WILL win trophies. It may give you a bloody good chance of it, but unless you buy the right players and manage them correctly, it's pointless having the millions. Money is just another excuse on a never ending list. Benitez has had enough money to be competing. When he took over, I said the exact same thing as I said in an earlier post. "We'll be three-four years behind" This is his 4th year and we're no closer so time for change. Obviously when the next man takes over it'll be another three-four years and if we're no closer then we change again.

[LFC2007]

The lick Wenger's arse thread re-appears once again.

[The_Rock]

My take.......it doesn't matter where we finish in the league. As long as we win the champions league...rafa should be given 1 season at least. So we can finish 17th and win the league and i would be satisfied.

We are already england's most successful club....if rafa brings us one step closer to become europe's most successful club...i would support him.

But if he won the FA cup and finish 4th....i could go either way.... Wouldn't give a hoot if he did go.

Another thing...if we get rid of rafa..then he should be replaced by mourinho (as the other world class managers are locked up with the respective clubs and countries).... No Klinsmann...and certainly no big sam (zarababe... )

[LFC2007]

In the past I've heard Manc's say they'd trade one European cup for three league titles, they value it that much.

Unfortunately, the very fact that we haven't won the league for such a while seems to diminish any of our other achievements, in particular, our successes in Europe.

[account deleted by request]

I live within spitting distance of Manchester, and can't say I have ever heard the match going mancs being overly bothered about the CL since they last won it. They just seem to want to overtake our record of title successes to me. All they seem to have on their minds at the moment is how quickly they can surpass us in titles and how we have never won the premier league.

[LFC2007]

I must be speaking to different Manc's.

[account deleted by request]

"Chelsea's revenue increase sees them return to the top five"
By Nick Harris
Thursday, 14 February 2008


Chelsea's income leapt an impressive 28 per cent last season to £190.5m to propel them into top five richest clubs in the world by income, according to a financial survey published yesterday. The latest edition of Deloitte's annual review uses figures from the 2006-07 season and puts Real Madrid top, followed by Manchester United (closing the gap), Barcelona, Chelsea and Arsenal.


The extent that Chelsea are still haemorrhaging Roman Abramovich's money will not be revealed until the club give details of their accounts next week. They lost £80.2m last season, a world record £140m in 2004-05 and £87.8m (the previous record) the year before that. More losses are expected this time but Chelsea's chief executive, Peter Kenyon, will at least now have some solid growth in income to set against them.

The survey compares club's finances on a like-for-like basis, stripping out some income for accounting reasons. Manchester United's MUTV and Nike income is not counted, for example, nor Arsenal's property earnings.

Real Madrid top the table with £236.2m, then United with £212.1m, Barcelona with £195.3m, Chelsea, and Arsenal, with £177.6m. Significantly, three English clubs occupy the top five for the first time, after big year-on-year rises. United's income leapt 30 per cent, and Arsenal's 37 per cent. Real Madrid climbed 20 per cent, and Barça just 12 per cent.

The survey highlights Liverpool's status as relative tiddlers, playing catch-up, among the "big four". Their earnings for 2006-07, Deloitte say, were £133.9m, a modest rise of 13 per cent. Liverpool's owners, Tom Hicks and George Gillett, have yet to make this information public themselves. The data does not inspire Liverpool's hopes of challenging United, Chelsea or Arsenal any time soon. It also highlights the massive gamble Hicks and Gillett have taken in borrowing £350m. Without Champions' League income (£25m-plus), Liverpool would be losing large sums, something Hicks and Gillett cannot sustain.

United climbed two places to second from last year's survey, while Real remain top for a third year running. Chelsea are up two places, and Arsenal four. "Arsenal's move to the Emirates Stadium has transformed their revenues whilst Chelsea's revenue increase sees them return to the top five," Dan Jones, a partner in Deloitte's Sports Business Group, said.

Real Madrid and Manchester United became the first football clubs ever to generate more than €300m (£223m) in a season.

"With the new Premier League television deals now online for the 2007-08 season, Manchester United have the opportunity to significantly close the gap on Real and a successful Champions League run may even see them challenge again for the number one position," he said.

The top 20 clubs, whose collective revenues grew by 11 per cent to £2.5bn, are all European, with six from England, four clubs from each of Germany and Italy, three Spanish clubs, two French clubs and one from Scotland, Celtic.

Paul Rawnsley of the SBG, said: "Clubs such as Aston Villa, Everton, Manchester City and West Ham United are already just outside the top 20 and with the new broadcast deals, we expect to see them rise."

Rich List: The world's wealthiest

Position(prior year position)/Revenue(£m)/Revenue(€m)

1 (1) Real Madrid 236.2/351.0

2 (4) Manchester United 212.1/315.2

3 (2) Barcelona 195.3/290.1

4 (6) Chelsea 190.5/283.0

5 (9) Arsenal 177.6/263.9

6 (5) Milan 153.0/227.2

7 (8) Bayern Munich 150.3/223.3

8 (10) Liverpool 133.9/198.9

9 (7) Internazionale 131.3/195.0

10 (12) AS Roma 106.1/157.6

11 (15) Tottenham Hotspur 103.1/153.1

12 (3) Juventus 97.7/145.2

13 (11) Olympique Lyonnais 94.6/140.6

14 (13) Newcastle United 87.1/129.4

15 (16) Hamburg SV 81.0/120.4

16 (14) Schalke 04 76.9/114.3

17 (*/a) Celtic 75.2/111.8

18 (*/a) Valencia 72.4/107.6

19 (*/a) Olympique de Marseille 66.6/99.0

20 (*/a) Werder Bremen 65.5/97.3

Source: Deloitte Football Money League 2008

[Lando_Griffin]

In the past I've heard Manc's say they'd trade one European cup for three league titles, they value it that much.

Unfortunately, the very fact that we haven't won the league for such a while seems to diminish any of our other achievements, in particular, our successes in Europe.

I think there are two words to describe such fans:

"Greedy" and "ungrateful".

[The Manhattan Project]

In the past I've heard Manc's say they'd trade one European cup for three league titles, they value it that much.

Nah, they only say that because they only have 2 European Cups and we have 5.

[puroresu]

Here we go again with the old money debate. I hear that the reason we can't go above United or Chelsea is down to money, yet Spurs and Newcastle outspend us and we comfortably finish above them. The reason I'm told that is, is because we have a better manager. Right, on that theory, is Daivd Moyes a better manager than Benitez, because he's spent less than us yet performing better. I still stand by the decision that money doesn't buy you the title. QPR in the Championship have been bought by a man richer than Ambrovich. They have an open cheque book, yet are not top of the league. Money HASN'T AND NEVER WILL win trophies. It may give you a bloody good chance of it, but unless you buy the right players and manage them correctly, it's pointless having the millions. Money is just another excuse on a never ending list. Benitez has had enough money to be competing. When he took over, I said the exact same thing as I said in an earlier post. "We'll be three-four years behind" This is his 4th year and we're no closer so time for change. Obviously when the next man takes over it'll be another three-four years and if we're no closer then we change again.

Its funny how people like to use our lack of spending in comparison to Utd and chelsea to justify the failure this season yet refuse to mention the clubs that dont spend as much as us but are doing just as well as us in the league.  Is it correct that Martin Jol spent 2nd to Mourinho yet he never broke the top 4.  We have never been able to spend like Utd. Roy Evans couldnt, Houllier couldnt yet somehow its a It’s a shocking discovery that Rafa cannot.  We cant compete with Real or Barcelona in the tranfer market yet somehow we reached 2 EC finals in the last 3 years.  U cannot blame a lack of money for such an awful league campaign this season.

[Ace Ventura]

Here we go again with the old money debate. I hear that the reason we can't go above United or Chelsea is down to money, yet Spurs and Newcastle outspend us and we comfortably finish above them. The reason I'm told that is, is because we have a better manager. Right, on that theory, is Daivd Moyes a better manager than Benitez, because he's spent less than us yet performing better. I still stand by the decision that money doesn't buy you the title. QPR in the Championship have been bought by a man richer than Ambrovich. They have an open cheque book, yet are not top of the league. Money HASN'T AND NEVER WILL win trophies. It may give you a bloody good chance of it, but unless you buy the right players and manage them correctly, it's pointless having the millions. Money is just another excuse on a never ending list. Benitez has had enough money to be competing. When he took over, I said the exact same thing as I said in an earlier post. "We'll be three-four years behind" This is his 4th year and we're no closer so time for change. Obviously when the next man takes over it'll be another three-four years and if we're no closer then we change again.

Its funny how people like to use our lack of spending in comparison to Utd and chelsea to justify the failure this season yet refuse to mention the clubs that dont spend as much as us but are doing just as well as us in the league.  Is it correct that Martin Jol spent 2nd to Mourinho yet he never broke the top 4.  We have never been able to spend like Utd. Roy Evans couldnt, Houllier couldnt yet somehow its a It’s a shocking discovery that Rafa cannot.  We cant compete with Real or Barcelona in the tranfer market yet somehow we reached 2 EC finals in the last 3 years.  U cannot blame a lack of money for such an awful league campaign this season.

You are right regarding not being able to spend like united in this day and age and under Houllier but under Evans we broke the british transfer recored signing Collymore for 8.5 million and forked out major money for defenders Scales and Babb at that time.
United would of spent more probably but we certainly were not as far behind in the spending capablities as we are now.

[tubby]

Here we go again with the old money debate. I hear that the reason we can't go above United or Chelsea is down to money, yet Spurs and Newcastle outspend us and we comfortably finish above them. The reason I'm told that is, is because we have a better manager. Right, on that theory, is Daivd Moyes a better manager than Benitez, because he's spent less than us yet performing better. I still stand by the decision that money doesn't buy you the title. QPR in the Championship have been bought by a man richer than Ambrovich. They have an open cheque book, yet are not top of the league. Money HASN'T AND NEVER WILL win trophies. It may give you a bloody good chance of it, but unless you buy the right players and manage them correctly, it's pointless having the millions. Money is just another excuse on a never ending list. Benitez has had enough money to be competing. When he took over, I said the exact same thing as I said in an earlier post. "We'll be three-four years behind" This is his 4th year and we're no closer so time for change. Obviously when the next man takes over it'll be another three-four years and if we're no closer then we change again.

Its funny how people like to use our lack of spending in comparison to Utd and chelsea to justify the failure this season yet refuse to mention the clubs that dont spend as much as us but are doing just as well as us in the league.  Is it correct that Martin Jol spent 2nd to Mourinho yet he never broke the top 4.  We have never been able to spend like Utd. Roy Evans couldnt, Houllier couldnt yet somehow its a It’s a shocking discovery that Rafa cannot.  We cant compete with Real or Barcelona in the tranfer market yet somehow we reached 2 EC finals in the last 3 years.  U cannot blame a lack of money for such an awful league campaign this season.

Its quite simple really. If we had more money to spend then Rafa would be able to buy better, more world class players. Instead we tend to go for 2nd best of the cheaper option.

Man Utds record for a defender was 19Mil Ferdinand

Us - 6 Mil Skirtl.