Liverpool FC Forum

[puroresu]

Here we go again with the old money debate. I hear that the reason we can't go above United or Chelsea is down to money, yet Spurs and Newcastle outspend us and we comfortably finish above them. The reason I'm told that is, is because we have a better manager. Right, on that theory, is Daivd Moyes a better manager than Benitez, because he's spent less than us yet performing better. I still stand by the decision that money doesn't buy you the title. QPR in the Championship have been bought by a man richer than Ambrovich. They have an open cheque book, yet are not top of the league. Money HASN'T AND NEVER WILL win trophies. It may give you a bloody good chance of it, but unless you buy the right players and manage them correctly, it's pointless having the millions. Money is just another excuse on a never ending list. Benitez has had enough money to be competing. When he took over, I said the exact same thing as I said in an earlier post. "We'll be three-four years behind" This is his 4th year and we're no closer so time for change. Obviously when the next man takes over it'll be another three-four years and if we're no closer then we change again.

Its funny how people like to use our lack of spending in comparison to Utd and chelsea to justify the failure this season yet refuse to mention the clubs that dont spend as much as us but are doing just as well as us in the league.  Is it correct that Martin Jol spent 2nd to Mourinho yet he never broke the top 4.  We have never been able to spend like Utd. Roy Evans couldnt, Houllier couldnt yet somehow its a It’s a shocking discovery that Rafa cannot.  We cant compete with Real or Barcelona in the tranfer market yet somehow we reached 2 EC finals in the last 3 years.  U cannot blame a lack of money for such an awful league campaign this season.

Its quite simple really. If we had more money to spend then Rafa would be able to buy better, more world class players. Instead we tend to go for 2nd best of the cheaper option.

Man Utds record for a defender was 19Mil Ferdinand

Us - 6 Mil Skirtl.

Its been that way for a good few years.  When Rafa initially came that was the way it was.  When Utd were buying RVN and Veron were bought nobody could match them in the market.  Are u saying that the only way we can match Chelsea and Utd is if we spend pound for pound the same?

[Emerald Red]

Here we go again with the old money debate. I hear that the reason we can't go above United or Chelsea is down to money, yet Spurs and Newcastle outspend us and we comfortably finish above them. The reason I'm told that is, is because we have a better manager. Right, on that theory, is Daivd Moyes a better manager than Benitez, because he's spent less than us yet performing better. I still stand by the decision that money doesn't buy you the title. QPR in the Championship have been bought by a man richer than Ambrovich. They have an open cheque book, yet are not top of the league. Money HASN'T AND NEVER WILL win trophies. It may give you a bloody good chance of it, but unless you buy the right players and manage them correctly, it's pointless having the millions. Money is just another excuse on a never ending list. Benitez has had enough money to be competing. When he took over, I said the exact same thing as I said in an earlier post. "We'll be three-four years behind" This is his 4th year and we're no closer so time for change. Obviously when the next man takes over it'll be another three-four years and if we're no closer then we change again.

Its funny how people like to use our lack of spending in comparison to Utd and chelsea to justify the failure this season yet refuse to mention the clubs that dont spend as much as us but are doing just as well as us in the league.  Is it correct that Martin Jol spent 2nd to Mourinho yet he never broke the top 4.  We have never been able to spend like Utd. Roy Evans couldnt, Houllier couldnt yet somehow its a It’s a shocking discovery that Rafa cannot.  We cant compete with Real or Barcelona in the tranfer market yet somehow we reached 2 EC finals in the last 3 years.  U cannot blame a lack of money for such an awful league campaign this season.

It's also funny how you've cited the success in Europe, yet ironically hinting that our failure in the league is not down to lack of  spending. Our success in Europe is down to one man, and you know who. You cannot have it both ways.

[Ace Ventura]

Here we go again with the old money debate. I hear that the reason we can't go above United or Chelsea is down to money, yet Spurs and Newcastle outspend us and we comfortably finish above them. The reason I'm told that is, is because we have a better manager. Right, on that theory, is Daivd Moyes a better manager than Benitez, because he's spent less than us yet performing better. I still stand by the decision that money doesn't buy you the title. QPR in the Championship have been bought by a man richer than Ambrovich. They have an open cheque book, yet are not top of the league. Money HASN'T AND NEVER WILL win trophies. It may give you a bloody good chance of it, but unless you buy the right players and manage them correctly, it's pointless having the millions. Money is just another excuse on a never ending list. Benitez has had enough money to be competing. When he took over, I said the exact same thing as I said in an earlier post. "We'll be three-four years behind" This is his 4th year and we're no closer so time for change. Obviously when the next man takes over it'll be another three-four years and if we're no closer then we change again.

Its funny how people like to use our lack of spending in comparison to Utd and chelsea to justify the failure this season yet refuse to mention the clubs that dont spend as much as us but are doing just as well as us in the league.  Is it correct that Martin Jol spent 2nd to Mourinho yet he never broke the top 4.  We have never been able to spend like Utd. Roy Evans couldnt, Houllier couldnt yet somehow its a It’s a shocking discovery that Rafa cannot.  We cant compete with Real or Barcelona in the tranfer market yet somehow we reached 2 EC finals in the last 3 years.  U cannot blame a lack of money for such an awful league campaign this season.

Its quite simple really. If we had more money to spend then Rafa would be able to buy better, more world class players. Instead we tend to go for 2nd best of the cheaper option.

Man Utds record for a defender was 19Mil Ferdinand

Us - 6 Mil Skirtl.

Rio was about 29 million mate.

[account deleted by request]

Here we go again with the old money debate. I hear that the reason we can't go above United or Chelsea is down to money, yet Spurs and Newcastle outspend us and we comfortably finish above them. The reason I'm told that is, is because we have a better manager. Right, on that theory, is Daivd Moyes a better manager than Benitez, because he's spent less than us yet performing better. I still stand by the decision that money doesn't buy you the title. QPR in the Championship have been bought by a man richer than Ambrovich. They have an open cheque book, yet are not top of the league. Money HASN'T AND NEVER WILL win trophies. It may give you a bloody good chance of it, but unless you buy the right players and manage them correctly, it's pointless having the millions. Money is just another excuse on a never ending list. Benitez has had enough money to be competing. When he took over, I said the exact same thing as I said in an earlier post. "We'll be three-four years behind" This is his 4th year and we're no closer so time for change. Obviously when the next man takes over it'll be another three-four years and if we're no closer then we change again.

Its funny how people like to use our lack of spending in comparison to Utd and chelsea to justify the failure this season yet refuse to mention the clubs that dont spend as much as us but are doing just as well as us in the league.  Is it correct that Martin Jol spent 2nd to Mourinho yet he never broke the top 4.  We have never been able to spend like Utd. Roy Evans couldnt, Houllier couldnt yet somehow its a It’s a shocking discovery that Rafa cannot.  We cant compete with Real or Barcelona in the tranfer market yet somehow we reached 2 EC finals in the last 3 years.  U cannot blame a lack of money for such an awful league campaign this season.

It's also funny how you've cited the success in Europe, yet ironically hinting that our failure in the league is not down to lack of  spending. Our success in Europe is down to one man, and you know who. You cannot have it both ways.

Steven Gerrard ?

[Emerald Red]

Here we go again with the old money debate. I hear that the reason we can't go above United or Chelsea is down to money, yet Spurs and Newcastle outspend us and we comfortably finish above them. The reason I'm told that is, is because we have a better manager. Right, on that theory, is Daivd Moyes a better manager than Benitez, because he's spent less than us yet performing better. I still stand by the decision that money doesn't buy you the title. QPR in the Championship have been bought by a man richer than Ambrovich. They have an open cheque book, yet are not top of the league. Money HASN'T AND NEVER WILL win trophies. It may give you a bloody good chance of it, but unless you buy the right players and manage them correctly, it's pointless having the millions. Money is just another excuse on a never ending list. Benitez has had enough money to be competing. When he took over, I said the exact same thing as I said in an earlier post. "We'll be three-four years behind" This is his 4th year and we're no closer so time for change. Obviously when the next man takes over it'll be another three-four years and if we're no closer then we change again.

Its funny how people like to use our lack of spending in comparison to Utd and chelsea to justify the failure this season yet refuse to mention the clubs that dont spend as much as us but are doing just as well as us in the league.  Is it correct that Martin Jol spent 2nd to Mourinho yet he never broke the top 4.  We have never been able to spend like Utd. Roy Evans couldnt, Houllier couldnt yet somehow its a It’s a shocking discovery that Rafa cannot.  We cant compete with Real or Barcelona in the tranfer market yet somehow we reached 2 EC finals in the last 3 years.  U cannot blame a lack of money for such an awful league campaign this season.

It's also funny how you've cited the success in Europe, yet ironically hinting that our failure in the league is not down to lack of  spending. Our success in Europe is down to one man, and you know who. You cannot have it both ways.

Steven Gerrard ?

I knew someone would post a smart ar$e comment like this. 

Yes, well, he did have something to do with it too. But then again so did Biscan and Smicer! 

[Big Niall]

If thats the case about anyone winning the FA cup name the last side outside the top 4 that did it.

Everton 95. 1-0 against United, Paul Rideout header. Since then it's been United, Chelsea, Arsenal and ourselves who've won the cup.

Glad I could clear that up 

Thanks GBJH but i knew the answer, was merely making a point 
Winning the FA cup in this era is not something that your Wimbledons and Evertons can do anymore.

WEst ham came within a penalty shoot out so "little clubs" are capable if they get a good draw.

[Big Niall]

I think the difference are due to some people thinking all trophies of similar (not equal) importance (prob league - CL - FA - carling cup).

Others think cups are nice but not a sign of greatness. Paisley never even won the FA cup but possibly greatest ever manager in the English game.

[Ace Ventura]

If thats the case about anyone winning the FA cup name the last side outside the top 4 that did it.

Everton 95. 1-0 against United, Paul Rideout header. Since then it's been United, Chelsea, Arsenal and ourselves who've won the cup.

Glad I could clear that up 

Thanks GBJH but i knew the answer, was merely making a point 
Winning the FA cup in this era is not something that your Wimbledons and Evertons can do anymore.

WEst ham came within a penalty shoot out so "little clubs" are capable if they get a good draw.

Doesnt matter how close they come Niall they didnt win it.

[Toffeehater]

Here we go again with the old money debate. I hear that the reason we can't go above United or Chelsea is down to money, yet Spurs and Newcastle outspend us and we comfortably finish above them. The reason I'm told that is, is because we have a better manager. Right, on that theory, is Daivd Moyes a better manager than Benitez, because he's spent less than us yet performing better. I still stand by the decision that money doesn't buy you the title. QPR in the Championship have been bought by a man richer than Ambrovich. They have an open cheque book, yet are not top of the league. Money HASN'T AND NEVER WILL win trophies. It may give you a bloody good chance of it, but unless you buy the right players and manage them correctly, it's pointless having the millions. Money is just another excuse on a never ending list. Benitez has had enough money to be competing. When he took over, I said the exact same thing as I said in an earlier post. "We'll be three-four years behind" This is his 4th year and we're no closer so time for change. Obviously when the next man takes over it'll be another three-four years and if we're no closer then we change again.

Its funny how people like to use our lack of spending in comparison to Utd and chelsea to justify the failure this season yet refuse to mention the clubs that dont spend as much as us but are doing just as well as us in the league.  Is it correct that Martin Jol spent 2nd to Mourinho yet he never broke the top 4.  We have never been able to spend like Utd. Roy Evans couldnt, Houllier couldnt yet somehow its a It’s a shocking discovery that Rafa cannot.  We cant compete with Real or Barcelona in the tranfer market yet somehow we reached 2 EC finals in the last 3 years.  U cannot blame a lack of money for such an awful league campaign this season.

Its quite simple really. If we had more money to spend then Rafa would be able to buy better, more world class players. Instead we tend to go for 2nd best of the cheaper option.

Man Utds record for a defender was 19Mil Ferdinand

Us - 6 Mil Skirtl.

Rafa has had money so its unfair to say that , most were his bad buys , he goes for quantity rather then quality , he could ,  have saved on kuyt , crouch and get anelka for 17 million he wasted on both of them , when it comes to transfers its unfair to say that rafa has not had his money , he has blown it . Just some names would be morrienties , bellamy , kuyt , crouch , gonzales ,

Skrtel would be a world beater soon don't worry , he younger then rio and has the time to imrpove , 4 world class players for the future would be Lucas , babel , mascherano and Skrtel , they have the time and all are young ...

[stmichael]

Man Utds record for a defender was 19Mil Ferdinand

add another £11m onto that and you're just about there.

[Toffeehater]

Here we go again with the old money debate. I hear that the reason we can't go above United or Chelsea is down to money, yet Spurs and Newcastle outspend us and we comfortably finish above them. The reason I'm told that is, is because we have a better manager. Right, on that theory, is Daivd Moyes a better manager than Benitez, because he's spent less than us yet performing better. I still stand by the decision that money doesn't buy you the title. QPR in the Championship have been bought by a man richer than Ambrovich. They have an open cheque book, yet are not top of the league. Money HASN'T AND NEVER WILL win trophies. It may give you a bloody good chance of it, but unless you buy the right players and manage them correctly, it's pointless having the millions. Money is just another excuse on a never ending list. Benitez has had enough money to be competing. When he took over, I said the exact same thing as I said in an earlier post. "We'll be three-four years behind" This is his 4th year and we're no closer so time for change. Obviously when the next man takes over it'll be another three-four years and if we're no closer then we change again.

Its funny how people like to use our lack of spending in comparison to Utd and chelsea to justify the failure this season yet refuse to mention the clubs that dont spend as much as us but are doing just as well as us in the league.  Is it correct that Martin Jol spent 2nd to Mourinho yet he never broke the top 4.  We have never been able to spend like Utd. Roy Evans couldnt, Houllier couldnt yet somehow its a It’s a shocking discovery that Rafa cannot.  We cant compete with Real or Barcelona in the tranfer market yet somehow we reached 2 EC finals in the last 3 years.  U cannot blame a lack of money for such an awful league campaign this season.

Its quite simple really. If we had more money to spend then Rafa would be able to buy better, more world class players. Instead we tend to go for 2nd best of the cheaper option.

Man Utds record for a defender was 19Mil Ferdinand

Us - 6 Mil Skirtl.

Its been that way for a good few years.  When Rafa initially came that was the way it was.  When Utd were buying RVN and Veron were bought nobody could match them in the market.  Are u saying that the only way we can match Chelsea and Utd is if we spend pound for pound the same?

I agree with what you post, we don't need to spend huge amounts to be good . arsenal etc , youngsters , new blood . Spent minimal and look they are 5 points clear at the top . I rather we work hard and win the league then rather be like chelsea who pratically buy the league . Victory would be so much sweeter with hard work and a acceptable amount of money spent

[account deleted by request]

Skrtel would be a world beater soon don't worry , he younger then rio and has the time to imrpove , 4 world class players for the future would be Lucas , babel , mascherano and Skrtel , they have the time and all are young ...

I agree with Lucas and Mascherano, not sure yet about Skrtel, and unfortunately there is no way in hell that Babel will be World class. (imho)

[Toffeehater]

Skrtel would be a world beater soon don't worry , he younger then rio and has the time to imrpove , 4 world class players for the future would be Lucas , babel , mascherano and Skrtel , they have the time and all are young ...

I agree with Lucas and Mascherano, not sure yet about Skrtel, and unfortunately there is no way in hell that Babel will be World class. (imho)

i got ahead of myself there    . People were saying the same abt henry when he was playing at left wing , when he was given a chance up top by wenger , he took it and look at the difference now , he's 21 now and if he plays upfront with that pace and trickery of his , he'd be a great player . he needs to work on his shot accuracy though , rafa is spoiling his career playing him as a winger

[stmichael]

We are a side unable to compete for the league title, this could be for one of a several reasons, obviously the main one looks to be Benitez' tactics. But I don't think we're capable of competing and we must accept it, and lower our exceptations. We as fans may all be desperate for a league title, but it's going to be at least another 3-4 years before one comes our way with the current state of affairs. Even a new manager isn't the quick fix answer, because we'll still be those 3-4 years behind the top sides. Can we really be patient for those years? I'd like to say I am but I'd be lying. I'm not patient to wait another 4 years without a league title. I expect us to win it every year because that's what I became a customed to in the 70s and 80s.

When Ferguson took over Man Utd he won f#ck all for about 5 years. When Wenger took over he inherited an ageing side but still a pretty good one and he could take his time in rebuilding the side. Another thing that helped Wenger was at the time the only competition he faced was Man Utd. Everybody else was a million miles away from challenging. Newcastle had a brief flurry under Keegan but that was never going to last. It was a flash in the pan. Mourinho took over Chelsea he was given a blank cheque book to just sign whoever he wanted to buy the title. The previous season to that, they scraped into fourth by beating us on the last day of the season and were in danger of going bust.

Those managers are all very good managers and have still done a great job but looking at the job they had to do compared to Rafas then Rafa has had a far harder task. When Rafa took over we were a complete shambles. Our star striker was off and our midfield star Gerrard wanted out as well. The strength of the squad was poor and we were heading absolutely nowhere. Rafa has had to totally rebuild the squad from the starting eleven to the youth squad. He has had to do this on a very limited budget and in a very quick time.

Along the way we have won a Champs League, Fa Cup and Super Cup. We have been beaten finalists in a Champs League final as well as a Carling Cup one. We have managed to get the highest points total in Liverpools Premiership history. You have to look closely at the struggle Rafa has. He is faced with beating three very good teams meaning that ok one of them teams may have an off season but all three wont so you have to be at your best almost every week. He is faced with having a net spend of around £25 million compared to the Champions net spend of around £70 million. He is faced with a manager who has been allowed time to work with his youngsters bringing them through almost hassle free and able to build a new stadium because the owners seem to know what they are doing and now that team are reaping all the benefits.

Lots of people jump on Rafas back because they demand success and they demand it now but to say we are no better off then under Gerard Houllier is a complete joke. From top to bottom we are far stronger and will continue to do so in the future, especially if we can get shut of the current owners.

[Big Niall]

If thats the case about anyone winning the FA cup name the last side outside the top 4 that did it.

Everton 95. 1-0 against United, Paul Rideout header. Since then it's been United, Chelsea, Arsenal and ourselves who've won the cup.

Glad I could clear that up 

Thanks GBJH but i knew the answer, was merely making a point 
Winning the FA cup in this era is not something that your Wimbledons and Evertons can do anymore.

WEst ham came within a penalty shoot out so "little clubs" are capable if they get a good draw.

Doesnt matter how close they come Niall they didnt win it.

But it proves that you don't have to be a top 4 to win the cup. Unless you believe that the reason they lost the shoot out was because they aren't top 4 - lets not forget that took a last minute wonder goal to even get us to extra time.

Obviously top 4 have dominated in last decade but when Millwall,Southampton,West Ham can get to a final, it shows it is no sign of progress.