Liverpool FC Forum

by **bigmick** » Mon Dec 21, 2009 12:09 pm

For me it's believeable apart from the notion that the players are either a) up in arms about signings not being made from the transfer kitty Rafa had "built up", and b) the idea that the players would leave en masse if the manager did.

Some of them would be leaving fairly quickly for sure, but not because they are walking out but because they are being cleared out. Equally on the "transfer kitty" thing, I don't know how many times it's been stated that the Mancs made a net 62 million quid on transfers and Arsenal a net 27 million, but even if some members of the forum don't think that we relatively pushed the boat out spending wise I think it's likely that the players realise it. The problem is that we spent the money on the wrong player in Aquilani (even if he turns out to be a top player we needed someone who was fit to replace alonso, not someone who still isn't fit at Christmas).

The players aren't daft. They'll know that most of the reason we are floundering is that we have a disfunctional central midfield pairing which the manager inexplicably keeps reverting to even though it's obvious we have better options. I read a stat about Lucas the other day. He's played 23 times this season I think, has scored no goals and has 1 assist. Now when you cosider he's playing alongside one of the best holding midfielders in Woprld football, you'd think he might be able to step up and have more influence. Why doesn't he? because he hasn't got the tools to do the job. The players aren't daft, they can see the real reasons why we are not winning football matches.

by **Ola Mr Benitez** » Mon Dec 21, 2009 12:29 pm

bigmick wrote:I read a stat about Lucas the other day. He's played 23 times this season I think, has scored no goals and has 1 assist. Now when you cosider he's playing alongside one of the best holding midfielders in Woprld football, you'd think he might be able to step up and have more influence. Why doesn't he? because he hasn't got the tools to do the job. The players aren't daft, they can see the real reasons why we are not winning football matches.

OR.. he is being told not too??

by **lakes10** » Mon Dec 21, 2009 1:08 pm

Ciggy wrote:
Sir Roger wrote:If thats the case then the players should rally round Rafa and tell the yanks to fu'ck off. The supporters need them to stop being like little kids who dont get their own way and grow some bollox immediately!

Agreed, and I really hope there is a meeting today to tell the yanks that lack of invesment will see their none-investment franchise collapse.

thinknyou have got your wish Ciggy, there seems to be a meeting today but there are no players going to it, its just Rafa the board and the owners.

I would put my bet on the Owners coiming out and backing Rafa again and we will hear no more of sacking Rafa......untill we get beat again.

by **Sir Roger** » Mon Dec 21, 2009 1:48 pm

NANNY RED wrote:Rog i wasnt being sarky mate,to your post I HONESTLY believe he will turn it around, I do bel;ieve we have the right man already, But im looking at the bigger picture , I dunno mate what i would find unacceptable at the mo , me head is still in bits from yesterdays performance,

Nan I wasnt accusing you of being sarcy. I was saying that my reply, although it could have been, would not be sarcastic. I genuinely meant the question without disrespecting Rafa. I hope he does turn it around I honestly do.
But more for our sake than his. Rafa will get another job if it all turns to sh'it. But will our club be left in ruins by the time that happens?

by **Judge** » Mon Dec 21, 2009 1:56 pm

NANNY RED wrote:I am strongly still behind the boss , if people think im soft then thats there problem,

And even an when he does go , the man will always have my respect

your comments are fine nanny

however, those of a different view now, are lambasted coz they want rafa to go. comments to those are unwarranted, as are comments lambasting those who want him to stay etc.

if someone has a different viewpoint on how things should pan out (ie: stay or go), then all views should be welcomed. thats what makes for good debate.

i respect rafa benitez, and i thank him for 2005, but we aint won anything in a while now, especially a serious concerted challange on the title. Maybe H+G are to blame for lack of investment, but we here rafa after every match say he has quality in our squad - if thats the case why are we 8th in the table.

As a supporter you can only take so much excuses or reasons etc, and the book stops with the manager if results are not going our way. Thats the nature of the business of football, whether we like it or not.

for me, i like rafa, but imo he has to go, and we need a fresh start im afraid. No title at all or challange to it, and that is not good enough. I have become disillusioned with his style of management with the quality he says we have, and on that note alone, he must go !!

by **Boocity** » Mon Dec 21, 2009 2:14 pm

I too am disillusioned with Rafa,

I am disillusioned with the results
I am disillusioned with his team selection
I am disillusioned with his tactics
I am disillusioned with the substitutions
I am disillusioned with his predictability

Although I take very little note to what SAF says, I remember before the season began he wrote off our chances and said about our tactics that teams would learn how to combat them and although Man U haven't , other teams have. and Rafa does not seem to have an answer to this.

by **teamleader1** » Mon Dec 21, 2009 2:22 pm

Boocity wrote:I too am disillusioned with Rafa,

I am disillusioned with the results
I am disillusioned with his team selection
I am disillusioned with his tactics
I am disillusioned with the substitutions
I am disillusioned with his predictability

Although I take very little note to what SAF says, I remember before the season began he wrote off our chances and said about our tactics that teams would learn how to combat them and although Man U haven't , other teams have. and Rafa does not seem to have an answer to this.

If SAF had managed Utd like Rafa has managed us this season he would have been kicked upstairs by now and replaced as manager
FACT

by **Owzat** » Mon Dec 21, 2009 2:37 pm

puroresu wrote:On Mancini I think he is a bit overated. He only won the league in Italy thanks to a combination of teams getting relegated or docked points for the match fixing scandal.

He managed 97 points in a 38 game season, that is better than Chelsea with their record 95, so you can't dismiss it out of hand because the rest were stopped from cheating.

He won the Italian cup with three different sides, won three Serie A titles in a row with Inter not having previously won one since 1989, so if he is "over-rated" it may well be the fault or judgement of those rating and those measuring his "over-ratedness"

by **Judge** » Mon Dec 21, 2009 3:18 pm

i will be mostly using this from now on

by **lakes10** » Mon Dec 21, 2009 4:28 pm

from what i am told the meeting is over and nothing happend, the thing is once again we dont even know what the meeting was about, it could even be about news players.

by **redbeergoggles** » Mon Dec 21, 2009 4:45 pm

lakes10 wrote:from what i am told the meeting is over and nothing happend, the thing is once again we dont even know what the meeting was about, it could even be about news players.

by **milou** » Mon Dec 21, 2009 5:21 pm

Judge wrote:
NANNY RED wrote:I am strongly still behind the boss , if people think im soft then thats there problem,

And even an when he does go , the man will always have my respect

your comments are fine nanny

however, those of a different view now, are lambasted coz they want rafa to go. comments to those are unwarranted, as are comments lambasting those who want him to stay etc.

if someone has a different viewpoint on how things should pan out (ie: stay or go), then all views should be welcomed. thats what makes for good debate.

i respect rafa benitez, and i thank him for 2005, but we aint won anything in a while now, especially a serious concerted challange on the title. Maybe H+G are to blame for lack of investment, but we here rafa after every match say he has quality in our squad - if thats the case why are we 8th in the table.

As a supporter you can only take so much excuses or reasons etc, and the book stops with the manager if results are not going our way. Thats the nature of the business of football, whether we like it or not.

for me, i like rafa, but imo he has to go, and we need a fresh start im afraid. No title at all or challange to it, and that is not good enough. I have become disillusioned with his style of management with the quality he says we have, and on that note alone, he must go !!

Top post judge.

I have been sitting on the fence for a while now.. but i think it is now time to say goodbye.

To me... it doesn't matter anymore if the yanks didn't back rafa enough financially (which is true) or that we have had one of the worst injury crisis in living memory (which is true) or our luck ran out (partially true). It also doesn't matter if you are convinced he can turn it around from here or not (unknown).. we have truly come to a point SO bad that we don't need another excuse not to let him go.

There is simply no amount of explaining to justify how a club with our kinda ambition and traditions at this horrible horrible position.. lying in 8th position & out of UCL.. all before xmas! In football (as in any business), the buck stops at the boss. Period.

But I just think the current situation is ridiculously forgiving to be true. In another top club, he would have been long gone. Just look at man city sacking hughes & chelsea sacking jose mourinho. Here we are still waiting, waiting and still waiting for a turn-around.. Mind you, the waiting started a few months ago!

In all honesty, it may have turned out so differently for him and for us if one or two referee's decisions went our way OR if one or to decisions went Man Utd's opponents way OR if torres stayed fit for a bit longer than he did last season. We would have won the holy grail.. Alonso would have stayed.. The yanks would have splashed out more money and we would have a better squad & the momentum would carry us thru.. blah blah blah. Too bad it didn't pan out that way.. and the rest is history.

If and when he finally walks, I will forever cherish and thank him for 2005.

But I am certain ANY manager - him or whoever - will do nothing but better from here (at least short-term) bcos it has gotten SO bad thusfar. You just have look at all the dejected faces and body language of our players to realize how bad it has become.

by **account deleted by request** » Mon Dec 21, 2009 7:22 pm

Senior Liverpool players turn on Benitez
Monday, 21st December 2009
Several Liverpol players have had a row with Rafael Benitez after turning on the former Valencia manager, according to reports.

Steven Gerrard, Fabio Aurelio and Javier Mascherano believe Benitez needs to be sacked after being frustrated with the lack of quality in the side.

An un-named source said: “Three Liverpool players are absolutely against Benitez to remain at the club.

“Aurelio, Mascherano and the skipper are unhappy with the team’s form this season and blame Benitez for it.

“Gerrard looked disinterested in training and Benitez had a go at him but Stevie wasn’t having any of it and the two aren’t currently talking.”

Mascherano is out suspended along with an injury while Aurelio has been dropped from the side after being kept out by Emiliano Insua.
LINK

by **The Good Yank** » Mon Dec 21, 2009 7:37 pm

s@int wrote:Senior Liverpool players turn on Benitez
Monday, 21st December 2009
Several Liverpol players have had a row with Rafael Benitez after turning on the former Valencia manager, according to reports.

Steven Gerrard, Fabio Aurelio and Javier Mascherano believe Benitez needs to be sacked after being frustrated with the lack of quality in the side.

An un-named source said: “Three Liverpool players are absolutely against Benitez to remain at the club.

“Aurelio, Mascherano and the skipper are unhappy with the team’s form this season and blame Benitez for it.

“Gerrard looked disinterested in training and Benitez had a go at him but Stevie wasn’t having any of it and the two aren’t currently talking.”

Mascherano is out suspended along with an injury while Aurelio has been dropped from the side after being kept out by Emiliano Insua.
LINK

Could the expression I've heard on here, T.its up apply right now?

by **SupitsJonF** » Mon Dec 21, 2009 8:10 pm

s@int wrote:BAD NEWS ARTICLE
LINK

Saw this article and heard some rumors about rafa, but at the moment I think its all bs. But, being Captain obvious I would just like to say if it is true, a captain and it's manager not talking is not good for the club

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