Liverpool FC Forum

LFC2007 wrote:The logic 

Well easy to laught but you haven't put any sort of arguement back the other way have you ? 

big al wrote:Many on here might think that I want Rafa out.  Fact is I don't. I want him to be more flexible to concentrate on the football.  He needs to build a good working relationship with Christian Purslow and Leave Dumb and Dumber to him.  On Monday night I was hoping that 'right here we go let's get back on track go on a run and show them we're not finished yet' 

The problem is that since the start of the season I have had the 'Fear'.  I remember under Houllier when I stopped believing.  Houllier was a great servant of Liverpool he restored my belief and brought back some of the glory which we had lost when Kenny left.  Houllier made me believe.  He took the club back to a point and then his own limitations kicked in.  The next step was Rafa.  Rafa made me believe again and for a long time I believe we could always beat anyone.  From the start of this season the old Houllier feeling returned and now I watch matches in fear.  Many here my reject this, but the silence now permeating Anfield shows me that the vast majority of fans are either as fearful as I am or the are very anxious.  I want to watch Liverpool with the expecation that we will win.  Stupid beach balls and bad referees can be explained and understood but fearing that Sunderland, fulham, Birmingham will beat us is not acceptable.  The worst thing about this is that the anxiousness is now coming across from the players.  Their body language tells me that they don't believe.  Benny I could give you answers to all your questions about my previous post here but thats all subjective what you cant deny me is how I personally feel.  I wonder am I the only one or are there others out there who no longer expect to win but instead are fearful.  I think the post by David Maddox is excellent with one caveat, we live in changed times.  The Liverpool we love is in the hands of two Americans who don't give a toss for tradition, otherwise they'd have pis*ed off long ago. 

Finally I'm not sure that anyone could replace Rafa at a club were the owners don't want to part with their own money( then again why should they, Fans are nothing to them and will stil come to games) maybe only Wenger or someone striking it lucky and finding a football genius at a lower divison club but then again finding another Bill Shankly is as rare as hens with back teeth.

Its a good post big al and its one that i posated something similar too the other week.
Houllier is often ridiculed on here because of how things went stale in the last season possibly season and a half.
People forget that he did bring us back our name in europe and got us believing again.
Ged's record against united and everton was fantastic as well, with all those wins at old trafford and some famous wins over the blues.
He won us the uefa cup knocking out barca in the semi's restoring our recent battered european record at that time.
He won us the fa cup, he also wont 2 league cups - both i went to one against the mancs that was a great weekend for many fans.
Then he messed up - he took us as far as he could and things regretably went stale. He loved the club and the fans like Rafa does imo.
He was loved by the fans so much as well - until things went stale.
We were shambolic in his last season and went backwards at an alarming rate losing games and as almost every game we played i was not at all convinced we would turn it round.

Move onto Rafa, he came in and performed a miracle - he took the squad that houllier left (that was weak after poor signings in geds last 18 months) and won the biggest of them all.
The champions league that we often struggled to even reach - he only went and won it, and in the best final ever against a european super power in the final.
Unbelievable and quite rightly lauded as a messiah.
He then went and won the fa cup knocking out both united and chelsea en route and winning possibly one of if not the best final in recent years.
All good so far.
He brought us Torres - the best signing this club hasd made in probably 20 years.
The man lives and breathes liverpool and you can see the pain on his face when things are going wrong.
He wants us to succeed so much he puts his whole life into it (like Ged).
But we have hit that point (IMHO) where we have gone stale, where players appear to have lost either belief or their will to win and fight for results.
Its not for the want of trying by Rafa, it just happens.
How many times do clubs sack managers and a caretaker comnes in and gets great results ?
Sometimes a change is needed, the players respond to a different method etc etc.

I am not saying i want Rafa sacked either - there is nobody i can think of that would come to anfield to manage at this moment in times with the two clowns as owners.
But what i am saying is that if something doesnt happen soon from the players or the manager - that brings some wins thick and fast..then we could seriously be in dire straits.

I want so much for Rafa to turn it round and for all his supporters to be right about him.

But if you ask me hand on heart can he or will he do it - my thoughts at the moment are, i seriously doubt it. 

Dazzer wrote:

LFC2007 wrote:

Dazzer wrote:

LFC2007 wrote:The logic

Well easy to laught but you haven't put any sort of arguement back the other way have you ?

Let's see then.

He has never stayed at a club for longer then 3 years ( before this one)  this is longest he stayed at a club.Well what can this tell us ?

Imo it means he is a great guy to come in and make the best out of what he has and then the wheels start to fall off.

 

You've just taken this season's very poor run and applied to it every other season, concluding - without analysing he evidence - that he only succeeds early on in each of his managerial projects before the "wheels fall off".

That's classic 'Dazzer logic'.

Well fact he also hasn't won any thing in 3 years ?

Squad has got worse year on year ?

Little comments players keep saying here and there about his coldness ?

How 8/10 of players he has sold have gone and played well under other managers ?

Don't get me wrong Rafa must be great to work with when the team is winning more then losing , but I am sure he would get on ya tits when the form is this bad.

LFC2007 wrote:

Dazzer wrote:Well fact he also hasn't won any thing in 3 years ?

Squad has got worse year on year ?

Little comments player keep saying here and there about his coldness.

That isn't what you originally said. You said he does well early on before the "wheels come off", citing the fact that he had only spent longer than three years with just the one club as evidence of this apparent fact. In other words you were saying the reason that he has only spent longer than three seasons at one club is because usually the "wheels come off". The facts show this not to be the case. Up until this season, we had made tidy progress under him, while in his final season at Valencia he left them with a league and cup double. Hardly then the "wheels coming off".

In the final assertion of your original post you seem to be implying that his alleged 'coldness' (as if great managers aren't cold at times) may explain why we're struggling to pull ourselves out of this rut. Fact is, at best that would only ever be a contributory factor (which isn't necessarily backed by fact, because we've frequently pulled ourselves out of the sh!t in the past under his leadership). Our obvious lack of squad depth is the predominant reason, I feel, why we are where we are.

How 8/10 of players he has sold have gone and played well under other managers.

And? Good players tend to play reasonably well wherever they go.

Benny The Noon wrote:

LFC2007 wrote:

Dazzer wrote:Well fact he also hasn't won any thing in 3 years ?

Squad has got worse year on year ?

Little comments player keep saying here and there about his coldness.

That isn't what you originally said. You said he does well early on before the "wheels come off", citing the fact that he had only spent longer than three years with just the one club as evidence of this apparent fact. In other words you were saying the reason that he has only spent longer than three seasons at one club is because usually the "wheels come off". The facts show this not to be the case. Up until this season, we had made tidy progress under him, while in his final season at Valencia he left them with a league and cup double. Hardly then the "wheels coming off".

In the final assertion of your original post you seem to be implying that his alleged 'coldness' (as if great managers aren't cold at times) may explain why we're struggling to pull ourselves out of this rut. Fact is, at best that would only ever be a contributory factor (which isn't necessarily backed by fact, because we've frequently pulled ourselves out of the sh!t in the past under his leadership). Our obvious lack of squad depth is the predominant reason, I feel, why we are where we are.

How 8/10 of players he has sold have gone and played well under other managers.

And? Good players tend to play reasonably well wherever they go.

He has me on ignore so will reply here so Legbarnes can read it .


Who are these players that have gone onto to better things since rafa has got rid - 8/10 it seems .

Legbarnes       obvious now i see it ! Enough said

Igor Zidane wrote:

Benny The Noon wrote:

LFC2007 wrote:

Dazzer wrote:Well fact he also hasn't won any thing in 3 years ?

Squad has got worse year on year ?

Little comments player keep saying here and there about his coldness.

That isn't what you originally said. You said he does well early on before the "wheels come off", citing the fact that he had only spent longer than three years with just the one club as evidence of this apparent fact. In other words you were saying the reason that he has only spent longer than three seasons at one club is because usually the "wheels come off". The facts show this not to be the case. Up until this season, we had made tidy progress under him, while in his final season at Valencia he left them with a league and cup double. Hardly then the "wheels coming off".

In the final assertion of your original post you seem to be implying that his alleged 'coldness' (as if great managers aren't cold at times) may explain why we're struggling to pull ourselves out of this rut. Fact is, at best that would only ever be a contributory factor (which isn't necessarily backed by fact, because we've frequently pulled ourselves out of the sh!t in the past under his leadership). Our obvious lack of squad depth is the predominant reason, I feel, why we are where we are.

How 8/10 of players he has sold have gone and played well under other managers.

And? Good players tend to play reasonably well wherever they go.

He has me on ignore so will reply here so Legbarnes can read it .


Who are these players that have gone onto to better things since rafa has got rid - 8/10 it seems .

Legbarnes       obvious now i see it ! Enough said

Im sure next we will be hearing about the fake sister who modelled in a mag

Sabre wrote:Dazzer=Leg Barnes?

I thought he was Stu's cousin, with all the background of football in his family and all!

Well he was a striker dont you know 

Yes its Legbarnes