Liverpool FC Forum

by **Rockthekop** » Fri Nov 06, 2009 1:41 pm

It will be interesting to see how Babel plays under a new manager, whether that's at Liverpool under a new gaffer or at a new club.

My guess is that Babel will playing at Liverpool under a new gaffer who will give him a good chance to impress. Not 20mins here and there, but a run of games.

If he doesnt improve, then you can say he's cack and you were right all along.

I'll reserve judgment on Babel until then.

by **tubby** » Fri Nov 06, 2009 1:49 pm

tonyeh wrote:
Fauxy wrote:
tonyeh wrote:His attitude is down to Benitez. It's that simple.

Babel (love or hate him) is a forward player. HE"S NOT A WINGER.

I can see that, most others can see it...

...why can't Benitez?

Babel showed on Wednesday that he can get decent goals. Granted, he then missed another and hit a wayward free...but at least he way trying. I have to give him that and I'm in no way a fan of his, by any measure.

The fact is that Benitez has played Babel OUT OF POSITION on a continual basis and has ruined the player, to the point where he mostly couldn't give a shit these days.

What Babel needed was a run of games as a striker/forward...not being fucked out onto the wing for 20 minutes every so often.

Lack of numbers has forced Benitez to play Benayoon on a more regular basis and Yossi has shown the folly of Benitez's former approach to him. Maybe the lack of options will force Benitez to play Babel in a forward role more often now.

if that's the case, it's time for Ryan Babel to step up and take the opportunty to show what he can do in the position he wants to play in.

Actually his position at Ajax was on the left wing so his position hasnt changed since he got here.

Also, he has been played up front a few times and each time he has been rubbish.

A forward needs to be a good finisher. Babel is not a good finisher.. he is way too clumsy to bag those easy goals. Think of when we played Arsenal in the Carling cup, he missed a sitter then when the ball rolled straight passed him. Think of that game against Hull when he could have easily headed in a cross. Think of just the other day against Lyon when he managed to put a free kick just outside the box out for a throw in and then later not even hitting the target from a few yards out.

He is just to clumsy and to un-intelligent to be relied upon to score on a consistent basis which is why he is played as a winger.

His position in Ajax was as a LF. Not on the wing.

That doesn't excuse his lack of ball control or complete lack of awareness, constantly running into people and giving the ball away. Does playing out of position do that?

Good players adapt, he was a promising player he will never be a good player. Not at Liverpool anyway. He has had plenty of chances to prove himself.

by **Fauxy** » Fri Nov 06, 2009 1:49 pm

tonyeh wrote:
Fauxy wrote:
tonyeh wrote:His attitude is down to Benitez. It's that simple.

Babel (love or hate him) is a forward player. HE"S NOT A WINGER.

I can see that, most others can see it...

...why can't Benitez?

Babel showed on Wednesday that he can get decent goals. Granted, he then missed another and hit a wayward free...but at least he way trying. I have to give him that and I'm in no way a fan of his, by any measure.

The fact is that Benitez has played Babel OUT OF POSITION on a continual basis and has ruined the player, to the point where he mostly couldn't give a shit these days.

What Babel needed was a run of games as a striker/forward...not being fucked out onto the wing for 20 minutes every so often.

Lack of numbers has forced Benitez to play Benayoon on a more regular basis and Yossi has shown the folly of Benitez's former approach to him. Maybe the lack of options will force Benitez to play Babel in a forward role more often now.

if that's the case, it's time for Ryan Babel to step up and take the opportunty to show what he can do in the position he wants to play in.

Actually his position at Ajax was on the left wing so his position hasnt changed since he got here.

Also, he has been played up front a few times and each time he has been rubbish.

A forward needs to be a good finisher. Babel is not a good finisher.. he is way too clumsy to bag those easy goals. Think of when we played Arsenal in the Carling cup, he missed a sitter then when the ball rolled straight passed him. Think of that game against Hull when he could have easily headed in a cross. Think of just the other day against Lyon when he managed to put a free kick just outside the box out for a throw in and then later not even hitting the target from a few yards out.

He is just to clumsy and to un-intelligent to be relied upon to score on a consistent basis which is why he is played as a winger.

His position in Ajax was as a LF. Not on the wing.

He pretty much plays the same here.. you never see him tracking back and hes always up there.

by **red_guy** » Fri Nov 06, 2009 1:58 pm

bavlondon wrote:
tonyeh wrote:
Fauxy wrote:
tonyeh wrote:His attitude is down to Benitez. It's that simple.

Babel (love or hate him) is a forward player. HE"S NOT A WINGER.

I can see that, most others can see it...

...why can't Benitez?

Babel showed on Wednesday that he can get decent goals. Granted, he then missed another and hit a wayward free...but at least he way trying. I have to give him that and I'm in no way a fan of his, by any measure.

The fact is that Benitez has played Babel OUT OF POSITION on a continual basis and has ruined the player, to the point where he mostly couldn't give a shit these days.

What Babel needed was a run of games as a striker/forward...not being fucked out onto the wing for 20 minutes every so often.

Lack of numbers has forced Benitez to play Benayoon on a more regular basis and Yossi has shown the folly of Benitez's former approach to him. Maybe the lack of options will force Benitez to play Babel in a forward role more often now.

if that's the case, it's time for Ryan Babel to step up and take the opportunty to show what he can do in the position he wants to play in.

Actually his position at Ajax was on the left wing so his position hasnt changed since he got here.

Also, he has been played up front a few times and each time he has been rubbish.

A forward needs to be a good finisher. Babel is not a good finisher.. he is way too clumsy to bag those easy goals. Think of when we played Arsenal in the Carling cup, he missed a sitter then when the ball rolled straight passed him. Think of that game against Hull when he could have easily headed in a cross. Think of just the other day against Lyon when he managed to put a free kick just outside the box out for a throw in and then later not even hitting the target from a few yards out.

He is just to clumsy and to un-intelligent to be relied upon to score on a consistent basis which is why he is played as a winger.

His position in Ajax was as a LF. Not on the wing.

That doesn't excuse his lack of ball control or complete lack of awareness, constantly running into people and giving the ball away. Does playing out of position do that?

Good players adapt, he was a promising player he will never be a good player. Not at Liverpool anyway. He has had plenty of chances to prove himself.

Definitely...you just can't find a class player constantly having that kind of criteria.

by **tonyeh** » Fri Nov 06, 2009 2:03 pm

bavlondon wrote:
tonyeh wrote:
Fauxy wrote:
tonyeh wrote:His attitude is down to Benitez. It's that simple.

Babel (love or hate him) is a forward player. HE"S NOT A WINGER.

I can see that, most others can see it...

...why can't Benitez?

Babel showed on Wednesday that he can get decent goals. Granted, he then missed another and hit a wayward free...but at least he way trying. I have to give him that and I'm in no way a fan of his, by any measure.

The fact is that Benitez has played Babel OUT OF POSITION on a continual basis and has ruined the player, to the point where he mostly couldn't give a shit these days.

What Babel needed was a run of games as a striker/forward...not being fucked out onto the wing for 20 minutes every so often.

Lack of numbers has forced Benitez to play Benayoon on a more regular basis and Yossi has shown the folly of Benitez's former approach to him. Maybe the lack of options will force Benitez to play Babel in a forward role more often now.

if that's the case, it's time for Ryan Babel to step up and take the opportunty to show what he can do in the position he wants to play in.

Actually his position at Ajax was on the left wing so his position hasnt changed since he got here.

Also, he has been played up front a few times and each time he has been rubbish.

A forward needs to be a good finisher. Babel is not a good finisher.. he is way too clumsy to bag those easy goals. Think of when we played Arsenal in the Carling cup, he missed a sitter then when the ball rolled straight passed him. Think of that game against Hull when he could have easily headed in a cross. Think of just the other day against Lyon when he managed to put a free kick just outside the box out for a throw in and then later not even hitting the target from a few yards out.

He is just to clumsy and to un-intelligent to be relied upon to score on a consistent basis which is why he is played as a winger.

His position in Ajax was as a LF. Not on the wing.

That doesn't excuse his lack of ball control or complete lack of awareness, constantly running into people and giving the ball away. Does playing out of position do that?

Good players adapt, he was a promising player he will never be a good player. Not at Liverpool anyway. He has had plenty of chances to prove himself.

Saying "good players adapt" isn't good enough though Bav. I wouldn't play Torres as a winger, or a CB.

That's not to say Babel is a Torres or anything, but he is clearly no winger (certainly NOT a left winger) and doesn't enjoy playing there. He's right footed and constantly cuts in, he can't pass and he's not a playmaker. He's the type of player that needs to recieve the ball and go for goal.

I really think that's all that Babel has in his cap.

Playing him on the wing is as pointless today, as it has ever been.

I'm not excusing Babel for any of his shortcomings. However, there are reasons and reasons are different to excuses. One of those reasons is Benitez' dreadful handling of him.

by **Owzat** » Fri Nov 06, 2009 2:08 pm

tonyeh wrote:
Greavesie wrote:Kuyt got on with 'playing out of position' just fine. In fact isn't he Holland's right winger now? He seems happy enough, didn't p!ss and moan. Babel instead walks around with a c0ck up his @rse

Only because he was a truly appaling striker.

In addition, Kuyt was given a run of games, even when he had some incredibly awful performances...simply because there was no other choice. He was also on for full games, not 20 minutes every so often.

Kuyt is simply an example of Benitez beating the square peg into the round hole...it just worked in that case, but only to a degree. Kuyt still possesses all the shortcomings he has always had.

Was our top scorer in the league in his first season with 12 goals

Of course something you may not be aware of, but people on here have mentioned is :

wikipedia wrote:Kuyt's father died of cancer on 29 June 2007

by **stmichael** » Fri Nov 06, 2009 2:12 pm

i heard that riera is due back anyway. he'll probably be on the bench though as he won't be fully fit.

by **tonyeh** » Fri Nov 06, 2009 2:38 pm

Owzat wrote:
tonyeh wrote:
Greavesie wrote:Kuyt got on with 'playing out of position' just fine. In fact isn't he Holland's right winger now? He seems happy enough, didn't p!ss and moan. Babel instead walks around with a c0ck up his @rse

Only because he was a truly appaling striker.

In addition, Kuyt was given a run of games, even when he had some incredibly awful performances...simply because there was no other choice. He was also on for full games, not 20 minutes every so often.

Kuyt is simply an example of Benitez beating the square peg into the round hole...it just worked in that case, but only to a degree. Kuyt still possesses all the shortcomings he has always had.

Was our top scorer in the league in his first season with 12 goals

Of course something you may not be aware of, but people on here have mentioned is :

wikipedia wrote:Kuyt's father died of cancer on 29 June 2007

I'm well aware of Kuyt's loss.

But, there's a reason why Benitez moved him from his striker position to a position out on the wing in the first place and doesn't play him as a striker these days.

He just wasn't doing it as a striker.

In saying that, he's made the right wing his own (but he WAS given a relatively disproportionate amount of time to do so). But, imo, we still need a real winger in that area.

by **Greavesie** » Fri Nov 06, 2009 2:52 pm

Kuyt got on with it because he's a bad player? what the hell? so babel's a t!t because he's good. I know which of the two I'd rather have, up front or on right wing.

by **Benny The Noon** » Fri Nov 06, 2009 3:12 pm

Another thread turning into a chance to have a pop at rafa - its getting pathetic now . McAteer and Aldo are spot on when they said the guys on the phone ins and forums need to shut up slagging of the manager and get behind him .

by **JamCar05** » Fri Nov 06, 2009 3:54 pm

heimdall wrote:
JamCar05 wrote:
heimdall wrote:As had been said before there is far too much deadweight in the squad and for some bizare reason Rafa loves playing them.

I'm not exactly sure Rafa "loves" playing them. The fact is if all our players were fit (unrealistic assumption atm I know) then Voronin, Kyrgiakos and Babel wouldn't be near the starting lineup as was the case earlier in the season (and for Babel even now).

I'm not so sure, they still get more playing time than I'm comfortable with, especially Voronin.

Again though I would say this has to do with our injuries, seeing as Voronin didn't really play that much at the beginning of the season when most players were fit if I remember correctly (just to be clear I really don't want to see the euro pornstar any more on the field than you do though as he is definitely gash

). Anyway didn't Rafa also try to flog him off during the summer

by **tonyeh** » Fri Nov 06, 2009 6:34 pm

Greavesie wrote:Kuyt got on with it because he's a bad player? what the hell? so babel's a t!t because he's good. I know which of the two I'd rather have, up front or on right wing.

I think you need some English classes.

by **Madmax** » Fri Nov 06, 2009 6:41 pm

stmichael wrote:i'd start him against birmingham, mainly because that would mean voronin not being in the team and benayoun in his best position for once instead of out wide.

I would start sammy lee over vorronin anyday.. Anything is better than vorronin.

by **bigmick** » Fri Nov 06, 2009 11:21 pm

I wonder if Babels goal against Lyons caused anybody to revisit their assessment of his abilties, or whether it will just get accepted/dismissed as a flash in the pan?

It firstly has to be said that it was an absolutely fantastic goal, but does it prove anything? Does the scoring of it in the manner it came prove Babel really has something, or was it just luck? He had to gather it, run to his right at pace, get his foot around it and get tremendous power and accuracy into the shot, so could he do it again and what does it teach us about him?

For my part the goal shocked me to be honest, simply because I didn't think he was capable of such things. He scored a similarish goal against Chelsea a year or two back, but even that wasn't with the same purity of contact and brute power of this one. We knew he had pace to burn, we now know he can give it a good crack with his right foot and he can hit it on the run. Unfortunately we also know he lacks awareness and his first touch is iffy, but in all honesty is there anybody who thinks he doesn't offer potentially more threat to the opposition that either Voronin or N'gog? Put simply, who would you prefer to play against? I know who I'd be picking and Babel would be at the bottom of my list of favoured opponents out of those three.

If it is to be true that Torres must now sit games out, surely now is the time to give him a go, Babel time if you like. "Schtop" I hear you cry, but I ask you what is the alternative? My guess is that if Voronin and N'Gog play 500 games for Liverpool (and neither will obviously) they'll never score a goal like the one babel scored the other night. Options are thin on the ground for us, and he surely represents the best one for us if Torres is out.

by **Greavesie** » Fri Nov 06, 2009 11:24 pm

tonyeh wrote:
Greavesie wrote:Kuyt got on with it because he's a bad player? what the hell? so babel's a t!t because he's good. I know which of the two I'd rather have, up front or on right wing.

I think you need some English classes.

correct me please

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