Liverpool FC Forum

by **Benny The Noon** » Mon Nov 02, 2009 1:07 am

thy didnt have a title winning squad but they were certainly a lot closer and stronger than we were and only needed a few additions as opposed to an overhaul . They certainly never finished over 20 points away from the winners . They had a good spine of prem winners already and just added expensive players to it .

by **bigmick** » Mon Nov 02, 2009 1:23 am

Ah well it passes the time I suppose.

In the season before Rafa came, the Mancs finished FIFTEEN POINTS BEHIND the Champions, who were Arsenal. They were also four points behind Chelsea who finished second on 79 points. Arsenal won it by eleven points, leaving everybody wondering just how on Earth anybody could catch them.

The following season, (Rafa's first in England) Mourinho arrived and Chelsea improved by 16 points to win the title. The Mancs this timne around were EIGHTEEN POINTS BEHIND the Champions, once again in third place, six points behind Arsenal.

The following season (Rafa's second in England) was a significant one. Chelsea won it again of course, but the mancs improved to get within 8 points of the Champions in 2nd place. Guess who also improved to be at that point ONLY ONE POINT BEHIND THE MANCS, AFTER RAFA'S SECOND SEASON???. We finished third.

The following season (Rafa's third) the Mancs improved again to be Champions. They got six points more than they did the previous season. We unfortunately didn't also improve, we finished 21 POINTS BEHIND THEM this time around, fecking Parry :angry:

.

The following season (Rafa's fourth) the Mancs won it again, and we improved back to get within 11 points of them (in fourth).

Last season (Rafa's fifth) we improved to get within four points of them, almost back to the point where we were three seasons ago.

by **LFC2007** » Mon Nov 02, 2009 1:39 am

The issue with transfers and funds for me up until recently (although partly) was more about i) the state of the squad Rafa inherited ii) the need to offload prior to selling. The first for me is a given - our squad was well behind the other three in terms of quality (yes the Manc's too) and that meant we had ground to makeup. (The UCL win proved nothing of our ability to challenge for the Premiership - yet people marvel at the achievement of "that" squad and at other times go onto to argue it proved we had comparable quality to the other three). While the Manc's were just beginning to spend £30m on Rooney - a fee we could only have dreamed of paying for any one individual and made possible by the fact that they were considerably more wealthy and had a better, more experienced squad already in place, we were having to cope with the loss of our second best player and our only real striker in Owen and a had generally weak squad by comparison. This was a side with Ferdinand, Neville, Keane, Giggs, Scholes, Ronaldo, Van Nistelrooy, Rooney and others already in place; that's seven world class players (to our one), and a representation of the old and new guard. That they didn't succeed in winning anything wasn't because they 'lacked' a squad - they had a very good squad but it was going through a transition stage (e.g. Rooney, Ronaldo still young, Keane and Van Nistelrooy bowing out in a season or two) and they - like the rest of us had to cope with the Abramovich/Mourinho factor. At any rate, I won't accept that the squad they had at that time was 'about comparable' or 'not too far off' ours. They finished 15 pts ahead of us in the season prior to 04/05, but that doesn't get mentioned. Only the fact that they finished 3rd does, because on the face of it, it sounds convincing enough that a squad that only finished one place ahead of us surely couldn't have had a squad that much better than ours. Such arguments are b0llocks and those who use them know it. The second point is relevant insofar as timing is concerned - we had to sell before we could release (at least some of) the funds needed to secure our own players.

Then there's wages which, IIRC, is (or was) undisputable. We used to pay less than all of the other big three. Then the other factor is the Parry factor

We might have had Alves, Aguero, Simao, Malouda, Vidic and perhaps others if we hadn't fecked about. All of whom would probably find a place in the starting eleven today.

by **NANNY RED** » Mon Nov 02, 2009 1:52 am

Wekk im dad happy tomigt but drunk but i was garing at mt beautiful daughter ,with such pride sH E looked like a young version of Audrey hepburn absolutly beatiful. eyes hair everyhing, feckin hell she was gorgeous , an in mit just saying it, i havnt got a blue which thread ive posted this in just wanna say it lile :nod

by **bigmick** » Mon Nov 02, 2009 2:02 am

LFC2007 wrote:The issue with transfers and funds for me up until recently (although partly) was more about i) the state of the squad Rafa inherited ii) the need to offload prior to selling. The first for me is a given - our squad was well behind the other three in terms of quality (yes the Manc's too) and that meant we had ground to makeup. (The UCL win proved nothing of our ability to challenge for the Premiership - yet people marvel at the achievement of "that" squad and at other times go onto to argue it proved we had comparable quality to the other three). While the Manc's were just beginning to spend £30m on Rooney - a fee we could only have dreamed of paying for any one individual and made possible by the fact that they were considerably more wealthy and had a better, more experienced squad already in place, we were having to cope with the loss of our second best player and our only real striker in Owen and a had generally weak squad by comparison. This was a side with Ferdinand, Neville, Keane, Giggs, Scholes, Ronaldo, Van Nistelrooy, Rooney and others already in place; that's seven world class players (to our one), and a representation of the old and new guard. That they didn't succeed in winning anything wasn't because they 'lacked' a squad - they had a very good squad but it was going through a transition stage (e.g. Rooney, Ronaldo still young, Keane and Van Nistelrooy bowing out in a season or two) and they - like the rest of us had to cope with the Abramovich/Mourinho factor. At any rate, I won't accept that the squad they had at that time was 'about comparable' or 'not too far off' ours. They finished 15 pts ahead of us in the season prior to 04/05, but that doesn't get mentioned. Only the fact that they finished 3rd does, because on the face of it, it sounds convincing enough that a squad that only finished one place ahead of us surely couldn't have had a squad that much better than ours. Such arguments are b0llocks and those who use them know it. The second point is relevant insofar as timing is concerned - we had to sell before we could release (at least some of) the funds needed to secure our own players.

Then there's wages which, IIRC, is (or was) undisputable. We used to pay less than all of the other big three. Then the other factor is the Parry factor We might have had Alves, Aguero, Simao, Malouda, Vidic and perhaps others if we hadn't fecked about. All of whom would probably find a place in the starting eleven today.

Fair enough mate, I wouldn't dispute that their squad was in a better shape than ours. Ours wasn't anywhere as much a disaster as some on here pretend though, (certainly the first choice team was pretty good at the very least), and they absolutely weren't on the verge of winning the Premiership as some pretend.

As I said earlier, I don't actually think Rafa has bought that badly, I just wish people wouldn't churn the "buying from the bargain basement" line each time someone questions the manager. It just isn't true.

by **bigmick** » Mon Nov 02, 2009 2:04 am

NANNY RED wrote:Wekk im dad happy tomigt but drunk but i was garing at mt beautiful daughter ,with such pride sH E looked like a young version of Audrey hepburn absolutly beatiful. eyes hair everyhing, feckin hell she was gorgeous , an in mit just saying it, i havnt got a blue which thread ive posted this in just wanna say it lile

Sometimes your kids make you so proud nan you could blub, I know exactly what you mean. I had a similar moment a couple of weeks back when I took my little girl in for her first day at school, she looked beautiful in her little uniform. Me and the Mrs were both filling up as we left her, soft as sh!te the pair of us.

by **Reg** » Mon Nov 02, 2009 2:13 am

That be true, kids are all beautiful and fill you with such pride.

by **LFC2007** » Mon Nov 02, 2009 2:15 am

I know that mate. I can't for the life of me see the sense in using our suggested lack of spending to defend Rafa's signing the likes of Babel, Lucas, Dossena, Keane, Ngog, Voronin (wages/space), Degen (ditto). I'm only using it up to the point of challenging the suggestion (implied, perhaps) that everything was a level playing field for Rafa when he arrived - there was some gap to make up in terms of quality on the other three. To that extent, it explains partially why I wouldn't have expected us to have a much better squad than the Manc's at the time (two years ago) i.e. to counter the idea that "we've spent more 'net' during this period than they have so why don't we have a much better squad by comparison?"
In the extreme it would be like arguing that Fulham ought to have challenged for the league if they'd spent 'net' the same amount as the Manc's in the four years since 04/05. My gripe is that since then, we've made very costly errors in the market - we've spent another £45m+ or whatever it is, with more or less nil effect. That is, at the present moment I would expect us to have a squad if not on, then almost on a par with the Manc's and a first team at least as good, but probably better. Thus, the money for Dossena might have solved our LB problem leaving Aurelio and Insua as back up, or it might have been spent elsewhere curing our lack of actual depth. Instead of Lucas we might have Bullard, even Cattermole. Instead of Babel we might have had our Riera type player earlier, instead of Keane we might have had Arshavin. At least three out of those four should have been good buys and I think that would've made a big difference to our squad strength and hence our ability to challenge.

by **Dazzer** » Mon Nov 02, 2009 2:19 am

bigmick wrote:
NANNY RED wrote:Wekk im dad happy tomigt but drunk but i was garing at mt beautiful daughter ,with such pride sH E looked like a young version of Audrey hepburn absolutly beatiful. eyes hair everyhing, feckin hell she was gorgeous , an in mit just saying it, i havnt got a blue which thread ive posted this in just wanna say it lile

Sometimes your kids make you so proud nan you could blub, I know exactly what you mean. I had a similar moment a couple of weeks back when I took my little girl in for her first day at school, she looked beautiful in her little uniform. Me and the Mrs were both filling up as we left her, soft as sh!te the pair of us.

Wow nice moment Mick can't wait for that. :sniffle

I am so looking forward to being a father something I always felt would make me happy and so far it has.

by **LFC2007** » Mon Nov 02, 2009 2:27 am

God help 'em :laugh:

by **Dazzer** » Mon Nov 02, 2009 2:33 am

posters nastiness has no limits it seems on here.I might just be words on a screen but I am a real person you know and throw insults like that do fecking hurt me. I know it you migh not care just because we have different views on football but really there has to be a limit to how much sh.it you can throw at someone.

by **bigmick** » Mon Nov 02, 2009 2:43 am

Dazzer wrote:posters nastiness has no limits it seems on here.I might just be words on a screen but I am a real person you know and throw insults like that do fecking hurt me. I know it you migh not care just because we have different views on football but really there has to be a limit to how much sh.it you can throw at someone.

Don't take people too seriously mate, the fellas just pulling your leg.

Having kids is great and no doubt it will enhance your life unbelieveably. It's like someone switching the lights on, such is the clarity and new focus with which you begin to look at things.

by **LFC2007** » Mon Nov 02, 2009 3:02 am

I echo those comments.

by **Bad Bob** » Mon Nov 02, 2009 3:40 am

Dazzer wrote:posters nastiness has no limits it seems on here.I might just be words on a screen but I am a real person you know and throw insults like that do fecking hurt me. I know it you migh not care just because we have different views on football but really there has to be a limit to how much sh.it you can throw at someone.

Says the fella that was suggesting another poster's mother gets around earlier on. Are you even remotely for real?

by **boodiddy1** » Mon Nov 02, 2009 4:21 am

Some deluded souls on here im afraid. Bringing statistics that show that certain teams have won the title losing five of there first eleven games. Fact is; and i'll save this post, but we wont finish in the top four.

We just ain't good enough. last season was our chance as neither arsenal or chelsea were ready for one reason or another. United were firing on all cylinders and we got some unbelievable results against the top clubs. This season, im afraid that city will get fourth. We will compete with spurs for fifth, but should edge them in that run.

So lets get ready for the europa league for the next two seasons. We'll be in it this february, and then next season.

I aint changing my opinion, rafa has to go for the same reasons as houllier had to, stagnent team, lack of ideas, creativity, and a tendancy to be predictable. I thought for a long time that he isn't the right man for the job. We need someone with understanding of this league. Benitez' methods will not work here.

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