Liverpool FC Forum

by **dawson99** » Sat Oct 24, 2009 9:31 am

Igor Zidane wrote:
Ola Mr Benitez wrote:
Reg wrote:Question:

If Shanks and Paisley were still alive, would they sack Rafa?

I think not.

Reg, I normally like your posts, but please...

Shankley and Paisley where in a total different league to Rafa, I reckon Shanks wouldn't have sacked him as he would never had let him in the club in the first place

However the world has changed, I am in 2 minds, I really like Rafa but his faults annoy me so much, and what is more annoying is that a few changes in his management style could well make all the difference... but will he change? No he won't

So you reckon shanks and paisley never made mistakes . Never bought bad players , never made the wrong sub or tactical mistakes.

They would have backed rafa to the hilt because rafa has this cub running through his viens ,just like they did . We can see that , they would have seen that .

Shanks and Paisley would have seen he has liverpool in his veins? Dude, just because a post sounds good, don't mean it is good. Rafa has made a lot of mistakes, wanting to get rid of alonso, poor man management, the bizarre Yossi sub and alot of bad buys culminating in a poor team.

by **parchpea** » Sat Oct 24, 2009 9:36 am

The reference to former managers is typical of the nostalgia used to try and justify the managers reign at the football club. Its like everything is raked up in an attempt to try and make us feel better about the situation and almost as if we cannot face the fact we have an exhausted manager as well as two terrible owners. Football moves on and as supporters you got to accept that and when things turn bad try something new.Benitez is not the only man that can run this team, there are others, he is not a god and there was life before and will be after he has moved on. I really cannot for the life of me fathom this unconditional love for Benitez and honestly feel its not healthy or helping us. I am one of the old school having been a supporter for over 40 years and can tell you that tired managers destroy teams as each week passes and we are very much in that position right now. Football teams needs to feel fresh and exciting, with hope and expectation but what we have now is a group treading water and going through the motions and that goes for the players and the supporters. Its a shame that it has come to this but unless people face the manager situation head on we are going to be in a right old state by the end of the campaign I promise you.

by **Igor Zidane** » Sat Oct 24, 2009 9:58 am

dawson99 wrote:
Igor Zidane wrote:
Ola Mr Benitez wrote:
Reg wrote:Question:

If Shanks and Paisley were still alive, would they sack Rafa?

I think not.

Reg, I normally like your posts, but please...

Shankley and Paisley where in a total different league to Rafa, I reckon Shanks wouldn't have sacked him as he would never had let him in the club in the first place

However the world has changed, I am in 2 minds, I really like Rafa but his faults annoy me so much, and what is more annoying is that a few changes in his management style could well make all the difference... but will he change? No he won't

So you reckon shanks and paisley never made mistakes . Never bought bad players , never made the wrong sub or tactical mistakes.

They would have backed rafa to the hilt because rafa has this cub running through his viens ,just like they did . We can see that , they would have seen that .

Shanks and Paisley would have seen he has liverpool in his veins? Dude, just because a post sounds good, don't mean it is good. Rafa has made a lot of mistakes, wanting to get rid of alonso, poor man management, the bizarre Yossi sub and alot of bad buys culminating in a poor team.

Of course rafa's made mistakes ,who's denying it . What the poster seems to be suggesting is that shankly and paisley were super human and never made mistakes . Now with the media the way it is ,the internet and sky . Rafa's mistakes seem to be blown up ten fold ,scrutinised and debated to death on forums like this.

I really do wonder if shanks especially would have stayed around in these times , probably but he wouldn't have gotten away with half of what he did .

by **Igor Zidane** » Sat Oct 24, 2009 10:18 am

One man inside Anfield tomorrow will know, better than any other, the pressure Rafa Benitez is under.

Someone who understands just how isolated a manager can feel when things go wrong at a club with massive expectations. How your mind and body aches for the break that will restore self-belief.

This is what that man said after his side were thrashed at Manchester City 20 years ago, and the vultures scented his blood.

"What I have felt in the last week you wouldn't think should happen in football. Every time someone looks at me I feel I have betrayed them. You feel as if you have to sneak round corners, as if you are some kind of criminal. But that is only because you care about the supporters. And these people have been waiting 22 years to win the League."

That man was Alex Ferguson. Like Benitez he had yet to reach 50, had won League titles and a European trophy with an unfancied team in a foreign country, and been lured to northern England to breathe life into one of the biggest names in world football.

But after three trophyless years faced widespread calls for his head. Like Benitez, he was attacked for selling decent players (Gordon Strachan, Norman Whiteside and Paul McGrath) and spending three times as much on mediocre replacements (Mike Phelan, Neil Webb and Danny Wallace).

If only Fergie was on speaking terms with Benitez he'd tell him that you can not only survive these crises, you can blind your critics with the glint of silver for years to come. But the pair aren't even on glancing terms, so his only desire tomorrow will be to bang another nail in the Spaniard's coffin.

The man who was a whisker - or is that a Macheda - away from knocking Fergie off his perch in May, now seems to have more people after him than Osama bin Laden. Benitez has never had the media on his side or even every Kopite, but the majority of fans have backed him.

According to the vultures, defeat tomorrow would see him lose those fans and then his job. I don't believe he'll lose either. Not least because the club is run in such a shambolic manner it hasn't the money, will or leadership to sack him.

And even if it did, who would replace him? Jose Mourinho? Would he join a club run by charlatans who this summer gave their manager a net spend of nothing to make that final step to the title? Kenny Dalglish? Would he want all that pressure again, two decades after left him mentally shattered?

Benitez has made mistakes, but he has also made Liverpool a European force and genuine title contenders again. His sub-standard squad is down to him.

But it is even more down to the buffoons who sold Liverpool short (David Moores and Rick Parry) and the cowboys who bought it solely to turn a quick buck.

Benitez doesn't deserve the sack. He deserves what Fergie got 20 years ago, just as United were about to make the biggest mistake in their history. An unremarkable goal from an unremarkable player, which silenced the snipers and gave him the breathing space to keep building his empire.

When the Titanic sank the last visible word on its hull was "Liverpool." Rafa's sinking team has in front of it tomorrow the biggest life-boat afloat. It's called Manchester United.

It's up to those players to grab it for their manager the way Mark Robins did for Fergie.

God knows there's enough of them turning in unremarkable performances who owe him one.

Brian reade in today's mirror

by **made in UK** » Sat Oct 24, 2009 11:06 am

Igor Zidane wrote:One man inside Anfield tomorrow will know, better than any other, the pressure Rafa Benitez is under.

Someone who understands just how isolated a manager can feel when things go wrong at a club with massive expectations. How your mind and body aches for the break that will restore self-belief.

This is what that man said after his side were thrashed at Manchester City 20 years ago, and the vultures scented his blood.

"What I have felt in the last week you wouldn't think should happen in football. Every time someone looks at me I feel I have betrayed them. You feel as if you have to sneak round corners, as if you are some kind of criminal. But that is only because you care about the supporters. And these people have been waiting 22 years to win the League."

That man was Alex Ferguson. Like Benitez he had yet to reach 50, had won League titles and a European trophy with an unfancied team in a foreign country, and been lured to northern England to breathe life into one of the biggest names in world football.

But after three trophyless years faced widespread calls for his head. Like Benitez, he was attacked for selling decent players (Gordon Strachan, Norman Whiteside and Paul McGrath) and spending three times as much on mediocre replacements (Mike Phelan, Neil Webb and Danny Wallace).

If only Fergie was on speaking terms with Benitez he'd tell him that you can not only survive these crises, you can blind your critics with the glint of silver for years to come. But the pair aren't even on glancing terms, so his only desire tomorrow will be to bang another nail in the Spaniard's coffin.

The man who was a whisker - or is that a Macheda - away from knocking Fergie off his perch in May, now seems to have more people after him than Osama bin Laden. Benitez has never had the media on his side or even every Kopite, but the majority of fans have backed him.

According to the vultures, defeat tomorrow would see him lose those fans and then his job. I don't believe he'll lose either. Not least because the club is run in such a shambolic manner it hasn't the money, will or leadership to sack him.

And even if it did, who would replace him? Jose Mourinho? Would he join a club run by charlatans who this summer gave their manager a net spend of nothing to make that final step to the title? Kenny Dalglish? Would he want all that pressure again, two decades after left him mentally shattered?

Benitez has made mistakes, but he has also made Liverpool a European force and genuine title contenders again. His sub-standard squad is down to him.

But it is even more down to the buffoons who sold Liverpool short (David Moores and Rick Parry) and the cowboys who bought it solely to turn a quick buck.

Benitez doesn't deserve the sack. He deserves what Fergie got 20 years ago, just as United were about to make the biggest mistake in their history. An unremarkable goal from an unremarkable player, which silenced the snipers and gave him the breathing space to keep building his empire.

When the Titanic sank the last visible word on its hull was "Liverpool." Rafa's sinking team has in front of it tomorrow the biggest life-boat afloat. It's called Manchester United.

It's up to those players to grab it for their manager the way Mark Robins did for Fergie.

God knows there's enough of them turning in unremarkable performances who owe him one.

Brian reade in today's mirror

Good article that.

by **Benny The Noon** » Sat Oct 24, 2009 11:10 am

Rafa wont be sacked and he wont walk away halfway through the season - he loves the club and fans far too much

Believe in Rafa .

Players and manager need to change things around and they will do - they have done in the past and they will doick this season .

We win we are 4 points behind - yes only 4 points and thats while playing toilet .

We are Liverpool and we stick together and back the team and manager through hard times and good times

Some fans need to realise this - its been the way for ever and the way i was brought up supporting liverpool for the last 30 years

YNWA

by **Reg** » Sat Oct 24, 2009 12:17 pm

October 24, 2009

Kenny Dalglish rallies Kop behind Rafael Benitez

Tony Barrett

Rafael Benítez goes into Sunday’s crucial Barclays Premier League game against Manchester United with the backing of a Liverpool legend.

Kenny Dalglish, who won eight league titles and three European Cups with the club as player and manager, insists the Anfield hierarchy shares his unequivocal belief in the Spaniard.

Dalglish, who returned to Liverpool as club ambassador in the summer at Benítez’s request, maintains that even a run of four successive defeats has not prompted anyone to hit the panic button over the manager’s position and called on the fans to offer Benítez their support when he needs it most.

“Everyone within the upper echelons of this club has no doubt whatsoever about Rafa — I know that for a fact,” Dalglish said.

“Everybody at Liverpool knows Rafa is the right man to get the club through this. No one is panicking in any way, shape or form. Everyone is being as helpful and supportive as they possibly can be to the manager.

“There’s no way Liverpool Football Club and the majority of people would want Rafa to go anywhere.”

Benítez has revealed how he sought the counsel of Dalglish — who was the previous Liverpool manager to lose four games in a row, in April 1987 — and thanked the Scot for his support.

“I had a quick chat with Kenny and said thank you,” Benítez said. “He has experience, he knows the club, he knows the city, the fans, he has more experience than me here.

“When we were bringing Kenny in, we knew we were bringing in someone with experience who could help us stick together.”

There was no gloating from Sir Alex Ferguson about Benitez’s plight yesterday, the United manager describing his adversary’s suffering as part and parcel of the modern game.

“In modern-day football the manager is always going to be the scapegoat, no matter what happens,” Ferguson said. “It happens time and time again. That is the climate we are in. Managers are always going to suffer.”

by **lakes10** » Sat Oct 24, 2009 12:31 pm

Number 9 wrote:
lakes10 wrote:
Number 9 wrote:
lakes10 wrote:at the end of the day we know we will win on sunday....but i dont think we will win in the CL, that is going to hurt the club a lot.

What the fu'ck are you sniffing lad?
We need to qualify for the last 16 for the payday we rely on...not win it,that is a whole different story!
Worry about the Mancs first..thats another worry for another day!

no need to worry over the Mancs,we will win that game.

i was not say we was not going to win the CL what i was saying is that we will not win IN the CL (we will not qualify )

and its more to do with the team not being a team.

Its really hard to counteract a post when ya have not got a clue what the other persons point is?
Verdict:Lakes is on the fanta!

lol just read my post again....think i need to go to sleep at the point.

by **Reg** » Sat Oct 24, 2009 12:55 pm

Ola Mr Benitez wrote:
Reg wrote:Question:

If Shanks and Paisley were still alive, would they sack Rafa?

I think not.

Reg, I normally like your posts, but please...

Shankley and Paisley where in a total different league to Rafa, I reckon Shanks wouldn't have sacked him as he would never had let him in the club in the first place

However the world has changed, I am in 2 minds, I really like Rafa but his faults annoy me so much, and what is more annoying is that a few changes in his management style could well make all the difference... but will he change? No he won't

Hi Ola,

To me its a fundemental question designed to make people slow down a bit and think. Shanks and Paisley were panickers, they didnt react to public opinion, they had a far better big picture view and only had mangerial and coaching issues on their minds.

IMHO S&P would judge Rafa on his coaching ability and a lose of form over 4 games would not deflect from the question is his technique right and is his vision correct.

Hence, IMHO S&P would tell Rafa to get on with it and probably sympathize with the absurd degree of media speculation.

Fans have over reacted, encouraged by the media who are out for a cheap thrill and its necessary to maintain a balanced view.

Hope this explains.
Reg

by **sully0182** » Sat Oct 24, 2009 1:47 pm

gonna wait til tomoro's game before i make my verdict on benetiz but i reckon if we lose its time for him to go. some of his desicions (benny vs lyon, insisting on lucas, one striker etc.) just don't seem to make any sense.
personally i'd love to see kenny in the hotseat, i was too young to remember him as manager but i reckon he could knock united "right off their f*cking perch" (and you can print that:D ), outside of dalglish, i'd love mourinho, i'd say he'd love another crack at chelsea and united, or martin o neill who seems incapable of doing a bad job anywhere he goes
but lets just hope we get the right result tomorrow, but i do fear the worst

by **Ben Patrick** » Sat Oct 24, 2009 3:44 pm

parchpea wrote:The reference to former managers is typical of the nostalgia used to try and justify the managers reign at the football club. Its like everything is raked up in an attempt to try and make us feel better about the situation and almost as if we cannot face the fact we have an exhausted manager as well as two terrible owners. Football moves on and as supporters you got to accept that and when things turn bad try something new.Benitez is not the only man that can run this team, there are others, he is not a god and there was life before and will be after he has moved on. I really cannot for the life of me fathom this unconditional love for Benitez and honestly feel its not healthy or helping us. I am one of the old school having been a supporter for over 40 years and can tell you that tired managers destroy teams as each week passes and we are very much in that position right now. Football teams needs to feel fresh and exciting, with hope and expectation but what we have now is a group treading water and going through the motions and that goes for the players and the supporters. Its a shame that it has come to this but unless people face the manager situation head on we are going to be in a right old state by the end of the campaign I promise you.

Really good post.

Thats the impression i am getting, players seem resigned to defeat and Rafa's face at the end of the Lyon game was also one of resignation.

Seems like the end of the Houllier era to me, lets hope somehow the players can go totally against the form book and take 3 points tomorrow.

Am not optimisitc at the moment though.

by **Reg** » Sat Oct 24, 2009 5:55 pm

Out of interest did you guys live through the Shanks and Paisley era?

The 'Hire and Fire' attitude didnt exist then, success came through hard work not constantly changing staff and spending money.

by **Dazzer** » Sat Oct 24, 2009 9:14 pm

Reg wrote:Out of interest did you guys live through the Shanks and Paisley era?

The 'Hire and Fire' attitude didnt exist then, success came through hard work not constantly changing staff and spending money.

Yeah but its 2009 mate not 1970 ffs football has moved on and things move at faster pace try and catch up will yeh.

by **Sir Roger** » Sat Oct 24, 2009 9:17 pm

Dazzer wrote:
Reg wrote:Out of interest did you guys live through the Shanks and Paisley era?

The 'Hire and Fire' attitude didnt exist then, success came through hard work not constantly changing staff and spending money.

Yeah but its 2009 mate not 1970 ffs football has moved on and things move at faster pace try and catch up will yeh.

Doesnt necessarily make it better or right though does it?

by **Dazzer** » Sat Oct 24, 2009 9:23 pm

Sir Roger wrote:
Dazzer wrote:
Reg wrote:Out of interest did you guys live through the Shanks and Paisley era?

The 'Hire and Fire' attitude didnt exist then, success came through hard work not constantly changing staff and spending money.

Yeah but its 2009 mate not 1970 ffs football has moved on and things move at faster pace try and catch up will yeh.

Doesnt necessarily make it better or right though does it?

Yeah I agree but it is so.....

on side note tho I don't think shankly would put up with football way it is today I am sure he would have said most players are fairys and play for money or something.I think he wouldn't have liked it at all.

But I don't see how you can even compare these 2 era's tbph.

Football has moved on big time every thing is driven by money IE club lives and dies on its turnover unless it has a money bags owner like chelsea but as we seen there is even limits to that club now.

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