Liverpool FC Forum

by **Zidane** » Wed Sep 02, 2009 8:40 pm

The thing is it ultimately comes down to attitude and mentality/intelligence with him ace, I mean its obvious he has some talent it is occasionally shown in games but its few and far in between. That's the issue, why can't he reproduce whatever it is that he has shown in the past more frequently? He's done some great things being played at LW yet he has never attempted to adjust to continue to do good things in that position in different ways. Defenders adjusted to him and he just keeps trying the same thing over and over and over again he is so frustrating to watch at times it's unreal. The sad thing is his one trick pony style STILL works occasionally. I just don't understand why he has not added anything else into his game since arriving here. Is it really because he doesn't play in his preferred position? I don't think so. He has no one to blame but himself for the lack of first team chances he is getting.

by **heimdall** » Wed Sep 02, 2009 8:46 pm

Babel has glimpses of talent, not as much as people think though but his attitude will always stink. I can't imagine it's easy with Rafa but to be fair Babel has had enough chances to prove himself but actually seems to be getting worse these days.

by **Ben Patrick** » Wed Sep 02, 2009 8:49 pm

Zidane wrote:The thing is it ultimately comes down to attitude and mentality/intelligence with him ace, I mean its obvious he has some talent it is occasionally shown in games but its few and far in between. That's the issue, why can't he reproduce whatever it is that he has shown in the past more frequently? He's done some great things being played at LW yet he has never attempted to adjust to continue to do good things in that position in different ways. Defenders adjusted to him and he just keeps trying the same thing over and over and over again he is so frustrating to watch at times it's unreal. The sad thing is his one trick pony style STILL works occasionally. I just don't understand why he has not added anything else into his game since arriving here. Is it really because he doesn't play in his preferred position? I don't think so. He has no one to blame but himself for the lack of first team chances he is getting.

I think your right about hiom being a sort of one trick pony, but given that fact. Why not try and get him into positions where his one trick is actually a danger ?
He gets put wide left and teams defending against him know that if they double up on him and close him down quickly then he will give the ball away easily.

Nobody is saying the lad is pefect he is far from it and i can see why people would say he doesnt deserve a chance with the half hearted way he has performed over the last year or so.
But the fact of the matter is he is a goalscorer if he is in the right position and has proved he can do it against decent opposition.

Lets maybe while our squad is so devoid of decent attacking options give him a chance and play him in an area or position where we might get the best out of him...he may do something to surprise us, i dont sense that with Voronin or Ngog myself.

by **heimdall** » Wed Sep 02, 2009 8:52 pm

Ben Patrick wrote:
Zidane wrote:The thing is it ultimately comes down to attitude and mentality/intelligence with him ace, I mean its obvious he has some talent it is occasionally shown in games but its few and far in between. That's the issue, why can't he reproduce whatever it is that he has shown in the past more frequently? He's done some great things being played at LW yet he has never attempted to adjust to continue to do good things in that position in different ways. Defenders adjusted to him and he just keeps trying the same thing over and over and over again he is so frustrating to watch at times it's unreal. The sad thing is his one trick pony style STILL works occasionally. I just don't understand why he has not added anything else into his game since arriving here. Is it really because he doesn't play in his preferred position? I don't think so. He has no one to blame but himself for the lack of first team chances he is getting.

I think your right about hiom being a sort of one trick pony, but given that fact. Why not try and get him into positions where his one trick is actually a danger ?
He gets put wide left and teams defending against him know that if they double up on him and close him down quickly then he will give the ball away easily.

Nobody is saying the lad is pefect he is far from it and i can see why people would say he doesnt deserve a chance with the half hearted way he has performed over the last year or so.
But the fact of the matter is he is a goalscorer if he is in the right position and has proved he can do it against decent opposition.

Lets maybe while our squad is so devoid of decent attacking options give him a chance and play him in an area or position where we might get the best out of him...he may do something to surprise us, i dont sense that with Voronin or Ngog myself.

Last season I would have agreed but his attitude stinks, he's lazy and doesn't commit too challenges, he's a liability. I'd rather play one of the reserves, at least they'd show some fecking passion.

by **bigmick** » Wed Sep 02, 2009 9:04 pm

Ace makes a good point. His attitude stinks and he's been very disappointing, but given our resources we need him it's as simple as that really. That's why I'd give him a go in Gerrards spot once he moves, failing that I'd at the very least start using him as a sub UP FRONT NOT ON THE LEFT SIDE OF MIDFIELD. I keep seeing people talk about him being played left wing, and even that's not really an accurate description of what he's been asked to do. He's hardly a John Barnes, absolved of defensive responsibilty and asked to create, he's asked to be much more of a left sided midfielder, to track back, to work with the fullback etc. That's all fair enough for a left midfielder, but that isn't Babel's game.

I'm not particularly defending the bloke because he is/was a very poor buy as things stand, but right now that is not the issue. The issue is, we only have one credible striker at the club and Babel is at least potentially another one. If Torres gets injured (I should say when really because he is absolutely certain at some point to get a strain or something) who are we going to play there? We need a bit of pace up top which rules out Voronin and Kuyt, leaving us with the option of N'Gog or Babel. Who would you have

Attitude or no attitude its an absolute no brainer for me.

Winning trophies is all about maximising the resources at your disposal. Yes I'm sure the manager would like to have brought a striker in, but he didn't. Under the circumstances, we must IMHO at least try and get the best out of Babel. It may be painful to admit but we actually need the uselss c...

by **bigmick** » Wed Sep 02, 2009 9:12 pm

On the question of him being played in midfield and IMHO it "not being his game", to me he is always at his best when he has to work off instinct. He certainly doesn't appear to be that bright, and in a footballing sense appears to be a bit of a dunce, but what he does have is explosive pace and a good shot. He can beat a player, and when he plays he generally either causes goals to be scored or he scores them himself. He scores goals in important matches, off the top of my head he's scored against the Mancs and I think Chelsea. His run for the penalty got us through in the Champions League against Arsenal a couple of years back, so there is something there hiding away.

Ideally I'd have flogged him and brought in a Darren Bent type, but we didn't probably because we couldn't. The way things are though, for me he is our Torres cover, and as such we should be doing our very best to getting him into some some sort of form. We really ought to have learnt our lesson in this regard last season to be truthful.

by **Reg** » Wed Sep 02, 2009 10:06 pm

redbeergoggles wrote:
Reg wrote:
skellyred71 wrote:
redbeergoggles wrote:
sully0182 wrote:Just to point out aswell that a lot of people called for Dirk Kuyt's head (myself included) after his second season at Anfield, last season he was unarguably one of best and most consistent players, a similar turnaround for babel isn't exactly a silly thought, if he doesnt perform after a run of 5 or so games, i'll be the first to admit he should be shipped out

If Dirk Kuyt had chosen to hide away for the full term of his second season ,then it would have been expected after the demoralizing effect losing a parent can have on a player ,but instead he played and didn't shy away from the constant gauntlet of abuse he received ,this in my eyes makes him an absolute legend .

Ryan Babel isn't fit to lace his boots lad ,so to mention him in the same vein as Kuyt is ridiculous ,Babel is an obnoxious arrogant little Dutch oik who has no football nous and wouldn't recognize bravery if he fell over it .

totally agree with that lad well said.

redbeergoggles isnt a 'lad', he's about 80.

Ah cmon Dad

Way past your bedtime son! :pirate

by **Red H** » Wed Sep 02, 2009 11:02 pm

If this lads going to work for us I think it will have to be in this role, and this formation. This was his best position, and the best I've seen him play for Holland U21, in a tournament a few years ago.

Reina

Johnson Carragher Skertle Insua

Gerrard Mascherano

Kuyt Babble Riera

Torres

But this would be a massive gamble, but great if it came off. I've nothing against Lucas, and I have a lot of time for Yossi, but this is what we've got to do with him. Or sell him.

At least until Aquaman comes to the rescue.

by **LFC2007** » Thu Sep 03, 2009 12:28 am

aCe' wrote:I wasnt comparing those players to Babel in terms of ability as much as i was in terms of style... They dont have it in them to do the job being asked of Babel, and neither does he...

To me his main failing is when he receives the ball further back in the midfield and is asked to pass it quickly and move or to connect with the fullback..etc... He just doesnt do that, and he shouldnt be asked to imo... For starters i wouldnt play him as a LM or LW anyways... Deeper down the field its alot harder to cut inside being a right footed player (striker) to look for the pass... Hes more direct sort of player who plays behind opposition midfielders and does his best work when in or around the box... Put him up against a LB or even a RB and he'll do well... Out him in an area where hes surrounded by 3 or 4 players and he'll always struggle to do well with the ball.. Im not defending his recent performances... they were sht and theres no question about that... Think too much is being made of his attitude though, but ia gree about the comments he made being out of order... Is he frustrated? yes... should have handled it better though.... Dont know where the 'desire' would come from for a 21-22 year old player who was once touted as the next big things but now finds himself warming the bench at a club whos been suffering injuries for players who play his position....still he cant get a game... Ngog is played ahead of him as a forward ffs... Is he immature? perhaps... manager should take that into account.. either sell him if he isnt getting the job done and get someone in to replace him... or play him where he could potentially make an impact...

And yes i am blaming Rafa for ruining whatever talent the guy had... Sticking with him in a position the guy clearly doesnt fancy playing and forcing him to change his game about to suit the side ? wouldnt quite say its working too well for Rafa or Ryan atm...

The first paragraph isn't particularly accurate. Messi and Ronaldo most definitely could fulfil the role on the left, absolutely no doubt about that. I think Mancini would do an infinitely better job also - he often figured on the left at Roma. Ibrahimomic and Cassano you simply wouldn't play down the left because they have almost always played down the middle, and they aren't as good or adaptable as the other two I mentioned. In fact, Babel played out wide for Ajax albeit slightly higher up and against much weaker defences. He plays a similar role for Holland, so I don't know how much 'changing of his game' there's actually been.

The second paragraph again, not particularly accurate IMO. Whether he plays 'between the lines', out wide, or as a lone striker, he's going to be encountering two, three, four players. In theory he'd get less time and space overall if deployed through the middle, for obvious reasons. So I don't see what attributes he has that would make him an effective second striker, mainly because I don't see many attributes at all. He isn't a shrewd operator in tight areas, he doesn't have the subtlety or nouse needed to carve open defences, he only really has a pace, a powerful shot and the odd trick. This makes it sound then as if the lone striker role would be his most appropriate position, and it may be, but such are his weaknesses and his bad attitude it isn't worth considering, IMO. Such has been the standard of his performances, I'd now assess him in terms of how weak he would perform in the respective positions and the differences are marginal. I'd rather see Kuyt or one of the kids (except Ngog) up top on their own before him.

The final paragraph I'd again reiterate the point that you can't make a silk purse out of a sow's ear. He arrived at the age of 20-21 (or whatever it was), his essential attributes were present then as they were developed at a much younger age, by definition they can't have been 'ruined'. Unless it's his confidence Rafa has 'ruined', except that he didn't seem particularly shy of that when he gave it the 'Babel from the Hood' routine on youtube. All in all, I don't buy the idea that he's been played massively out of position, slightly out of position but not massively. Sometimes in life you have to do things that aren't ideal, some that you just don't like, but you have to get on with it. He signed to play for Liverpool football club, not Ryan Babel. You don't hear Kuyt bemoaning the fact that he's not in his ideal position, he's just happy to be on the pitch. The fact is against Spurs he was appalling, against Villa ditto, not a smidgeon of passion about him, and yet he has the gall to argue he hasn't had enough game time.

The one element of your post I would agree with though is that this was a mistake by Rafa, one very bad signing.

by **red_guy** » Thu Sep 03, 2009 1:05 am

His attitude stinks? Yes. Whining about not playing enough games? well mister, u have to EARN it. This is LIVERPOOL, not Ajax. Playing him in different position? He never failed to mentioned in almost all interviews ' oo i play like Henry' meaning the best possible position for him should be Wide Left Forward...but still, he stinks. and Playing him elsewhere would be a disaster. Bad Signing ? Definitely.

by **maguskwt** » Thu Sep 03, 2009 1:20 am

sully0182 wrote:yes, but it at least shows that the being of the opinion that ryan babel could become a great player can hardly be called deluded

so it was when he first joined us... ANY fan of the club gave him a chance back then... but as my original post says to STILL think could become a great player is bordering on delusional...

by **maguskwt** » Thu Sep 03, 2009 1:21 am

red_guy wrote:' oo i play like Henry'

by **Owzat** » Thu Sep 03, 2009 6:54 am

On what he's done for Liverpool so far, he has more chance of being compared to Messi etc in terms of looks than for his game.............................

I've given loaning him to Ajax a little more thought, the problem is if he does well there then we could end up with a player trying to force a move in cahoots with a club wanting to get him on the cheap. If he does badly then we're still stuck with him and he'll probably blame it on him not being an Ajax player proper, only on loan, or the wind was always blowing in his face, or he wasn't wearing his preferred number, or it was negative vibes from the Liverpool fans, or the Ajax manager, or Ajax selling him or someone else's fault

by **bigmick** » Thu Sep 03, 2009 6:59 am

Owzat wrote:If he does badly then we're still stuck with him and he'll probably blame it on him not being an Ajax player proper, only on loan, or the wind was always blowing in his face, or he wasn't wearing his preferred number, or it was negative vibes from the Liverpool fans, or the Ajax manager, or Ajax selling him or someone else's fault

Parry's you mean Owz

by **Owzat** » Thu Sep 03, 2009 7:13 am

bigmick wrote:
Owzat wrote:If he does badly then we're still stuck with him and he'll probably blame it on him not being an Ajax player proper, only on loan, or the wind was always blowing in his face, or he wasn't wearing his preferred number, or it was negative vibes from the Liverpool fans, or the Ajax manager, or Ajax selling him or someone else's fault

Parry's you mean Owz

I was actually inferring that whoever's fault it was, it wouldn't be BABEL'S............................

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