Liverpool FC Forum

by **Nando26** » Wed Sep 02, 2009 7:39 pm

redbeergoggles wrote:
sully0182 wrote:Just to point out aswell that a lot of people called for Dirk Kuyt's head (myself included) after his second season at Anfield, last season he was unarguably one of best and most consistent players, a similar turnaround for babel isn't exactly a silly thought, if he doesnt perform after a run of 5 or so games, i'll be the first to admit he should be shipped out

If Dirk Kuyt had chosen to hide away for the full term of his second season ,then it would have been expected after the demoralizing effect losing a parent can have on a player ,but instead he played and didn't shy away from the constant gauntlet of abuse he received ,this in my eyes makes him an absolute legend .

Ryan Babel isn't fit to lace his boots lad ,so to mention him in the same vein as Kuyt is ridiculous ,Babel is an obnoxious arrogant little Dutch oik who has no football nous and wouldn't recognize bravery if he fell over it .

by **skellyred71** » Wed Sep 02, 2009 7:58 pm

bigmick wrote:
DrPepe wrote:and what are the odds on gerrard dropping into CM from now on?

Well I would hope the odds of Gerrard replacing Lucas in the centre of midfield are fairly short bordering on miniscule to be honest. He did more in half an hour there against Bolton than Lucas has done in four matches (in fairness to the Brazillian you would hardly expect any different) and while Gerrard/Torres is a very good partnership, if they are starved of the football there is little point persisting with it.

The danger for me is that we stick with Lucas over the next couple of games, (which we will probably win in any case) only to discover when we have to play somebody decent that we are once again caught between a rock and a hard place.

One of Rafa's attributes/faults is his stubborness, and my worry is that with the clamour for him to address the situation, he'll leave things as they are rather than accept the overwhelmingly (IMHO anyway) obvious solution.

We've given it a good go, it's time to do what we arguably should have done in the first game of the season. we must play our strongest team which is currently available. Some positions will no doubt provoke debate, but central midfield isn't one of them. Gerrard must play there, it's as simple as that really.

What about playing gerrard back in cm with masch, dirk right mid, reira on left and put benni in stevies position?

by **Ben Patrick** » Wed Sep 02, 2009 7:59 pm

aCe' wrote:
sully0182 wrote:Fine, we should sell him so, but when torres' hamstring gives in November don't complain that we've got N'gog and my little pony up front, regardless of the lads personality, he's still one of our more talented striking options

He is, and if we're not bringing anyone in i wouldnt sell him tbh...

Hes being played in a position where he was always going to struggle... Some players you just cant expect to see track back and defend and get stuck in... its not their game and attempting to force them into it will only take away from whatever it is they do best.... You dont see the likes of Messi, Roben, Mancini, Cassano..etc tracking back simply because theyre no good at doing so.. neither is Babel imo... hes not a LM, not even a LW, yet is constantly played there by Rafa and judged on his performances there by the fans...

Think Rafa is destroying whatever talent the guy has/had by treating him the way he is (sub, played out of position when he starts, getting brought on in the 85th min...etc etc).... Either try to get the best out of whatever talent he has or replace him with someone who actually plays the positions hes being asked to play.. Im sure we'll find takers for somewhere close to what we paid to him (around 8-10mill i think if we seriously considered selling him) ....

As things stand, he doesnt deserve to be in the starting 11... Until he gets his chance (one way or the other for whatever reason) in his preferred position , and he fails to produce the goods, i wont be as critical of him as most are... He was one of our better players in preseason mainly because he was played upfront either in a 4-4-2 or a 4-3-3..

The whole "has the wrong attitude" thing i just dont buy into.. Not with Babel, not with Ibrahimovic, Ronaldo, Berbatov, Robben..etc etc...
As a football player, you either have talent that you're able to express or you dont... As things stand, Babel doesnt, or isnt able to, for a number or reasons...

We'll need him though given the state of the squad, thats for sure... Hopefully he wont be wasted down the left flank....

I actually think this is a really good post.

Agreed he frustrates the hell out of me with his attitude and has clearly spat his dummy out.
But i definately think he is being played out of position.

He is a wide forward in a 4-3-3 thats the way they are brought up at the top clubs in Holland. Same with Kuyt as well.
Thats why i suggested in another thread that given our obvious lack of options that system is worth a look.
It works well for them at international level.
Did anyone watch the Holland England friendly the other week ?
Babel as a wide striker tore the a'ss out of our own Glenn Johnson and was a livewire throughout.
Its a system he knows and he might have a manager that trusts him at international level.
Some will come back and say why change the system to accomodate a player who has had a blatantly poor attitude since he has not been a regular ?
I would say cos we dont have a great deal else at this minute and time and like it or not he has proved at international level that he isnt as poor a player as he is showing.
Like ace said if you play someone out of position then not at all then give him 5 minutes at the end out of position it will have a negative affect.
Why not try and get something more out of the second most expensive attacking player in our squad ?

by **sully0182** » Wed Sep 02, 2009 7:59 pm

Right, this is gonna be the last post i make on ryan babel, i can see that nobody's minds are gonna be changed on the issue until we actually see him play this year. I'm not denying he's got a bad attitude, i'm not denying that he can be very lazy, i am however stating that we do not have that many striking options at the moment if (heaven forbid) nando was injured. As we won't be bringing anyone in until at least january, babel (imho) is the best alternative we have and has proven himself to be more of a matchwinner than N'gog and Vorinin (see CLQF vs Arsenal).

If we had signed David Villa, Samuel Eto'o etc over the summer by all means ship the lad out, but we haven't so for now we've gotta win with the cards we've been dealt.

Also, i certainly wouldnt put Carragher ahead of Kuyt on performances last year. Carragher, in my opinion, has become slower and clumsy in the 12 months, and does way too much finger pointing for my liking.

by **Zidane** » Wed Sep 02, 2009 8:01 pm

Can't make it in the big leagues.

by **skellyred71** » Wed Sep 02, 2009 8:01 pm

redbeergoggles wrote:
sully0182 wrote:Just to point out aswell that a lot of people called for Dirk Kuyt's head (myself included) after his second season at Anfield, last season he was unarguably one of best and most consistent players, a similar turnaround for babel isn't exactly a silly thought, if he doesnt perform after a run of 5 or so games, i'll be the first to admit he should be shipped out

If Dirk Kuyt had chosen to hide away for the full term of his second season ,then it would have been expected after the demoralizing effect losing a parent can have on a player ,but instead he played and didn't shy away from the constant gauntlet of abuse he received ,this in my eyes makes him an absolute legend .

Ryan Babel isn't fit to lace his boots lad ,so to mention him in the same vein as Kuyt is ridiculous ,Babel is an obnoxious arrogant little Dutch oik who has no football nous and wouldn't recognize bravery if he fell over it .

totally agree with that lad well said.

by **Reg** » Wed Sep 02, 2009 8:07 pm

skellyred71 wrote:
redbeergoggles wrote:
sully0182 wrote:Just to point out aswell that a lot of people called for Dirk Kuyt's head (myself included) after his second season at Anfield, last season he was unarguably one of best and most consistent players, a similar turnaround for babel isn't exactly a silly thought, if he doesnt perform after a run of 5 or so games, i'll be the first to admit he should be shipped out

If Dirk Kuyt had chosen to hide away for the full term of his second season ,then it would have been expected after the demoralizing effect losing a parent can have on a player ,but instead he played and didn't shy away from the constant gauntlet of abuse he received ,this in my eyes makes him an absolute legend .

Ryan Babel isn't fit to lace his boots lad ,so to mention him in the same vein as Kuyt is ridiculous ,Babel is an obnoxious arrogant little Dutch oik who has no football nous and wouldn't recognize bravery if he fell over it .

totally agree with that lad well said.

redbeergoggles isnt a 'lad', he's about 80.

by **Ben Patrick** » Wed Sep 02, 2009 8:08 pm

Reg wrote:
skellyred71 wrote:
redbeergoggles wrote:
sully0182 wrote:Just to point out aswell that a lot of people called for Dirk Kuyt's head (myself included) after his second season at Anfield, last season he was unarguably one of best and most consistent players, a similar turnaround for babel isn't exactly a silly thought, if he doesnt perform after a run of 5 or so games, i'll be the first to admit he should be shipped out

If Dirk Kuyt had chosen to hide away for the full term of his second season ,then it would have been expected after the demoralizing effect losing a parent can have on a player ,but instead he played and didn't shy away from the constant gauntlet of abuse he received ,this in my eyes makes him an absolute legend .

Ryan Babel isn't fit to lace his boots lad ,so to mention him in the same vein as Kuyt is ridiculous ,Babel is an obnoxious arrogant little Dutch oik who has no football nous and wouldn't recognize bravery if he fell over it .

totally agree with that lad well said.

redbeergoggles isnt a 'lad', he's about 80.

Does that make him a liiiid then instead ?

by **Reg** » Wed Sep 02, 2009 8:09 pm

Mispost

by **skellyred71** » Wed Sep 02, 2009 8:09 pm

skellyred71 wrote:
bigmick wrote:
DrPepe wrote:and what are the odds on gerrard dropping into CM from now on?

Well I would hope the odds of Gerrard replacing Lucas in the centre of midfield are fairly short bordering on miniscule to be honest. He did more in half an hour there against Bolton than Lucas has done in four matches (in fairness to the Brazillian you would hardly expect any different) and while Gerrard/Torres is a very good partnership, if they are starved of the football there is little point persisting with it.

The danger for me is that we stick with Lucas over the next couple of games, (which we will probably win in any case) only to discover when we have to play somebody decent that we are once again caught between a rock and a hard place.

One of Rafa's attributes/faults is his stubborness, and my worry is that with the clamour for him to address the situation, he'll leave things as they are rather than accept the overwhelmingly (IMHO anyway) obvious solution.

We've given it a good go, it's time to do what we arguably should have done in the first game of the season. we must play our strongest team which is currently available. Some positions will no doubt provoke debate, but central midfield isn't one of them. Gerrard must play there, it's as simple as that really.

What about playing gerrard back in cm with masch, dirk right mid, reira on left and put benni in stevies position?

I have to say though stevie must go back to playing with nando once aqua man is fit, i would still keep hold of ryan though, he is a confidence player and needs to play more but seeing as we are already playing catch up, chances could be few and hard to find. I agree with the point that ryan and dirk are both used to playing in 4 33 system but dirk for me is absolute class works his socks off and has adapted well to the english game.

by **aCe'** » Wed Sep 02, 2009 8:20 pm

LFC2007 wrote:The thing is, Messi, Robben, Mancini, Berbatov, Ronaldo, Ibrahimovic, even Cassano are in a different stratosphere to Babel. Some of those players can get away with lazy c...ts at times, yet most of the best players aren't lazy c...ts; even Ronaldo - however big a c...t almost always showed a real determination and desire to win, the same applies to Messi. The others can get away with it on the whole because of their talent, yet Berbatov isn't exactly uprooting trees at Old Trafford, nor could Cassano hack it at a top club. Babel can't because doesn't come close to their level of footballing ability in any sense whatsoever and his attitude stinks. If he had the ambition and the drive to be the best whatever the circumstances, he might be a player - MIGHT - and in that respect I completely agree with the two quotes sgs put up about the importance of mentality. Sometimes a great work ethic can push players with fairly limited ability to a higher level because that willingness to learn and to apply yourself will reflect in your game. Steve Finnan would be a good example.

Babel hasn't done anything like enough to warrant a sustained run in the side. If anything we've learned this past season especially that he's a total liability who can't be relied upon; why then risk his inclusion in our team? Two seasons he's been here, he was a flash in the pan and he's now regressed to the extent that he thinks HE deserves opportunities off the back of some of the most inept, gutless performances I've ever seen. To then suggest Rafa has potentially ruined his 'talent' and that Wenger would turn him into a superstar is absolutely ludicrous.

The sooner he fecks off to Ajax the better.

I wasnt comparing those players to Babel in terms of ability as much as i was in terms of style... They dont have it in them to do the job being asked of Babel, and neither does he...

To me his main failing is when he receives the ball further back in the midfield and is asked to pass it quickly and move or to connect with the fullback..etc... He just doesnt do that, and he shouldnt be asked to imo... For starters i wouldnt play him as a LM or LW anyways... Deeper down the field its alot harder to cut inside being a right footed player (striker) to look for the pass... Hes more direct sort of player who plays behind opposition midfielders and does his best work when in or around the box... Put him up against a LB or even a RB and he'll do well... Out him in an area where hes surrounded by 3 or 4 players and he'll always struggle to do well with the ball.. Im not defending his recent performances... they were sht and theres no question about that... Think too much is being made of his attitude though, but ia gree about the comments he made being out of order... Is he frustrated? yes... should have handled it better though.... Dont know where the 'desire' would come from for a 21-22 year old player who was once touted as the next big things but now finds himself warming the bench at a club whos been suffering injuries for players who play his position....still he cant get a game... Ngog is played ahead of him as a forward ffs... Is he immature? perhaps... manager should take that into account.. either sell him if he isnt getting the job done and get someone in to replace him... or play him where he could potentially make an impact...

And yes i am blaming Rafa for ruining whatever talent the guy had... Sticking with him in a position the guy clearly doesnt fancy playing and forcing him to change his game about to suit the side ? wouldnt quite say its working too well for Rafa or Ryan atm...

by **redbeergoggles** » Wed Sep 02, 2009 8:24 pm

Reg wrote:
skellyred71 wrote:
redbeergoggles wrote:
sully0182 wrote:Just to point out aswell that a lot of people called for Dirk Kuyt's head (myself included) after his second season at Anfield, last season he was unarguably one of best and most consistent players, a similar turnaround for babel isn't exactly a silly thought, if he doesnt perform after a run of 5 or so games, i'll be the first to admit he should be shipped out

If Dirk Kuyt had chosen to hide away for the full term of his second season ,then it would have been expected after the demoralizing effect losing a parent can have on a player ,but instead he played and didn't shy away from the constant gauntlet of abuse he received ,this in my eyes makes him an absolute legend .

Ryan Babel isn't fit to lace his boots lad ,so to mention him in the same vein as Kuyt is ridiculous ,Babel is an obnoxious arrogant little Dutch oik who has no football nous and wouldn't recognize bravery if he fell over it .

totally agree with that lad well said.

redbeergoggles isnt a 'lad', he's about 80.

Ah cmon Dad

by **skellyred71** » Wed Sep 02, 2009 8:27 pm

redbeergoggles wrote:
Reg wrote:
skellyred71 wrote:
redbeergoggles wrote:
sully0182 wrote:Just to point out aswell that a lot of people called for Dirk Kuyt's head (myself included) after his second season at Anfield, last season he was unarguably one of best and most consistent players, a similar turnaround for babel isn't exactly a silly thought, if he doesnt perform after a run of 5 or so games, i'll be the first to admit he should be shipped out

If Dirk Kuyt had chosen to hide away for the full term of his second season ,then it would have been expected after the demoralizing effect losing a parent can have on a player ,but instead he played and didn't shy away from the constant gauntlet of abuse he received ,this in my eyes makes him an absolute legend .

Ryan Babel isn't fit to lace his boots lad ,so to mention him in the same vein as Kuyt is ridiculous ,Babel is an obnoxious arrogant little Dutch oik who has no football nous and wouldn't recognize bravery if he fell over it .

totally agree with that lad well said.

redbeergoggles isnt a 'lad', he's about 80.

Ah cmon Dad

liid, lad, father or soon dont matter were all family redmen :hearts

whoppers lol

by **skellyred71** » Wed Sep 02, 2009 8:27 pm

son lmao

by **redsince2001** » Wed Sep 02, 2009 8:35 pm

Nando26 wrote:
redbeergoggles wrote:
sully0182 wrote:Just to point out aswell that a lot of people called for Dirk Kuyt's head (myself included) after his second season at Anfield, last season he was unarguably one of best and most consistent players, a similar turnaround for babel isn't exactly a silly thought, if he doesnt perform after a run of 5 or so games, i'll be the first to admit he should be shipped out

If Dirk Kuyt had chosen to hide away for the full term of his second season ,then it would have been expected after the demoralizing effect losing a parent can have on a player ,but instead he played and didn't shy away from the constant gauntlet of abuse he received ,this in my eyes makes him an absolute legend .

Ryan Babel isn't fit to lace his boots lad ,so to mention him in the same vein as Kuyt is ridiculous ,Babel is an obnoxious arrogant little Dutch oik who has no football nous and wouldn't recognize bravery if he fell over it .

he's got CHARACTER :bowdown

Liverpool FC Forum

RYAN BABEL to join Hoffenheim

Who is online