Liverpool FC Forum

by **only me** » Mon Aug 17, 2009 12:07 pm

Ace Ventura wrote:
only me wrote:Sorry can't accept this - Babel is not a new young prospect ,he failed miserably the last seasons - trick me once shame on you trick me twice shame on me - Rafa should really know better he is repeating his mistakes. (same goes to Lucas case).

I thought Lucas did ok yesterday, it was mascherano that was poor in the middle for me.

We can have either Lucas or Mash not both,for me thats a no brainer ,Mash is a much better defensive player ,fast aggressive commited ,Lucas? bye bye

by **Owzat** » Mon Aug 17, 2009 12:10 pm

GYBS wrote:well rafa went with the form player - babel as he has looked good pre season and on wed for holland - he let rafa down

If Voronin looked good pre-season, as he did in his first pre-season, which would you go with? Form in friendlies or previous form? Was Torres worth keeping on the full 90 based on what he did? There wasn't a lot of point taking him off given we had only two attacking options on the bench, but certain players are always the ones who get targeted when the team plays badly.

by **GRAHAM01** » Mon Aug 17, 2009 12:10 pm

puroresu wrote:His not a Left winger. His not progressing at a quick enough rate and lastly we paid way too much for Babel. Nobody else would of paid that amount. I watched the PSV v Ajax yesterday (great game) and there is a LW at PSV called Balázs Dzsudzsák. He looks very impressive. Has improved loads in 18 months.

see if they want a swap deal

by **Bammo** » Mon Aug 17, 2009 1:37 pm

Babel's a strange one for me. He's very much a confidence player and so needs a long run in the team in order to play well. Of course, that's not possible for us as we can't sacrifice games waiting for him to hit form. What puzzles me is that preseason and for Holland he looked up for it. He was taking people on, chasing back and getting stuck in.

Then on Sunday he looked as though it were a training ground kick around (he wasn't the only one). Someone needs to have a word in his ear that while Riera is injured this is his chance to get a place in the team. It's possible that with Riera back and potentially a new signing (we can hope!!) then he won't get another chance.

by **stmichael** » Mon Aug 17, 2009 1:44 pm

Bammo wrote:Babel's a strange one for me. He's very much a confidence player and so needs a long run in the team in order to play well. Of course, that's not possible for us as we can't sacrifice games waiting for him to hit form. What puzzles me is that preseason and for Holland he looked up for it. He was taking people on, chasing back and getting stuck in.

Then on Sunday he looked as though it were a training ground kick around (he wasn't the only one). Someone needs to have a word in his ear that while Riera is injured this is his chance to get a place in the team. It's possible that with Riera back and potentially a new signing (we can hope!!) then he won't get another chance.

His "performance" yesterday was a complete joke. He didn't show, track back, close down or even move. He's hasn't got a footballing brain.

I'm not actually blaming him. I fail to understand why he's playing right in front of the manager, literally in front of the dugout, and wasn't replaced earlier. If we didn't have a replacement then fair enough but we had a player who turned our season around last year waiting to come on.

by **aCe'** » Mon Aug 17, 2009 1:50 pm

To me, Rafa hasnt been able to get the best out of Babel... under a different manager if given the chance to express his talents in a more consistent basis im sure he'd become a much better player... There really is no point in Rafa demanding that Babel track back and help out with the defensive work that much... Theres many wingers out there who dont do that but are amongst the best in the world because they do what they know how to do to near perfection.. Messi, Robben Mancini to mention a few...

Every time Babel tracks back and recieves the ball in deep areas he doesnt really know what to do with it... theres many bodies around him and as a forward, hes inclined to turn on the ball, attempt a dribble, or even cut inside rather than look for the one touch pass that is often needed in such positions... When he receives the ball in advanced positions the guy often looks dangerous... Down the right side against sides that allow space and time for wingers i think he'd be more dangerous...

Anyways, imo, Rafa needs to change the way we play Babel if he wants to keep him at the club... in this position, he's proven to be a big failure ... either allow him to express his talents or ship him out.. he'll never be a Rafa type of player, so lets just deal with it..

by **heimdall** » Mon Aug 17, 2009 1:54 pm

aCe' wrote:To me, Rafa hasnt been able to get the best out of Babel... under a different manager if given the chance to express his talents in a more consistent basis im sure he'd become a much better player... There really is no point in Rafa demanding that Babel track back and help out with the defensive work that much... Theres many wingers out there who dont do that but are amongst the best in the world because they do what they know how to do to near perfection.. Messi, Robben Mancini to mention a few...

Every time Babel tracks back and recieves the ball in deep areas he doesnt really know what to do with it... theres many bodies around him and as a forward, hes inclined to turn on the ball, attempt a dribble, or even cut inside rather than look for the one touch pass that is often needed in such positions... When he receives the ball in advanced positions the guy often looks dangerous... Down the right side against sides that allow space and time for wingers i think he'd be more dangerous...

Anyways, imo, Rafa needs to change the way we play Babel if he wants to keep him at the club... in this position, he's proven to be a big failure ... either allow him to express his talents or ship him out.. he'll never be a Rafa type of player, so lets just deal with it..

I'm not convinced he has enough talent Ace, I used to think he did but he is lazy, sherks tackles and has a bad attitude so it's time to get rid. He goes down as one of those players who could have been great but never made the grade.

by **stmichael** » Mon Aug 17, 2009 2:04 pm

aCe' wrote:To me, Rafa hasnt been able to get the best out of Babel... under a different manager if given the chance to express his talents in a more consistent basis im sure he'd become a much better player... There really is no point in Rafa demanding that Babel track back and help out with the defensive work that much... Theres many wingers out there who dont do that but are amongst the best in the world because they do what they know how to do to near perfection.. Messi, Robben Mancini to mention a few...

Every time Babel tracks back and recieves the ball in deep areas he doesnt really know what to do with it... theres many bodies around him and as a forward, hes inclined to turn on the ball, attempt a dribble, or even cut inside rather than look for the one touch pass that is often needed in such positions... When he receives the ball in advanced positions the guy often looks dangerous... Down the right side against sides that allow space and time for wingers i think he'd be more dangerous...

Anyways, imo, Rafa needs to change the way we play Babel if he wants to keep him at the club... in this position, he's proven to be a big failure ... either allow him to express his talents or ship him out.. he'll never be a Rafa type of player, so lets just deal with it..

Liverpool sides are based on hard work, good intelligence of the ball surroundings on the pitch and also sides that build up constant domination, pushing through, possession-styled kind of footy. Not only does it require understanding, but it requires the ability to pass. Babel, for me, just doesn't like to pass, nor does he have any game intelligence. I've seen enough of him over the past 2 seasons to suggest that this isn't going to change either. He's 22 for God's sake.

by **tonyeh** » Mon Aug 17, 2009 2:06 pm

Babel's just not a winger. It's as simple as that and he'll never be able to cut it as a winger in the Premiership. As long as Benitez keeps forcing the square peg into the round hole, he'll be pissing in the wind.

I also agree though, that he has neither the talent or the attitude for success either. I think he's deeply unhappy at Liverpool too though, which doesn't help.

by **maguskwt** » Mon Aug 17, 2009 2:13 pm

I would rather play Dirky boy up front than Babel... one of the worst players in the team at the moment not because he doesn't have talent but because he never learns and doesn't have the attitude to try and do better... all this talk about rafa not giving him the proper chance is BS... he had as much chance as Yossi had and look how Yossi always try to perform until he had become one of our key players... he had made impacts in games he comes on late... what did babel contribute? If we're lucky he would score a goal when we're like 3-0 up because the opposition was trying to get back into the game and was tired?

by **aCe'** » Mon Aug 17, 2009 2:29 pm

stmichael wrote:...

Liverpool sides are based on hard work, good intelligence of the ball surroundings on the pitch and also sides that build up constant domination, pushing through, possession-styled kind of footy. Not only does it require understanding, but it requires the ability to pass.

mmm... yea im not so sure about that... Hard work only takes you so far... i'd say stoke are a hard working side, dont expect them to win anything though... Good game intelligence ? Mascherano, Kuyt, to a lesser extent Lucas ? Constant domination comes from having flair players who know how to move off the ball in the right areas, im not sure we play possession styled football either... seem pretty direct more often than not... All of what you're saying is all good and dandy.. My point is that Babel doesnt really fit in our side if the role he plays with us now is the only one we can offer him.. I just dont get why we havent tried to use him in other positions when we are seemingly so short on quality in other attacking positions... Give him a go as a forward alongside Torres when we're trailing with 20mins to go or 0-0 and needing a goal ?! maybe a start as a right winger sometime to see if he has what it takes there ?!

Babel, for me, just doesn't like to pass, nor does he have any game intelligence. I've seen enough of him over the past 2 seasons to suggest that this isn't going to change either. He's 22 for God's sake.

Hes not a link up player, hes not a CM and hes not a LM either.. hes a forward played out of position by Benitez... He does have game intelligence of a forward for me, we're just not utilizing it by playing him the way we are... Get him on the ball against a fullback down the right flank and he'll absolutely terrorize the fullback imo.. Play him as a forward alongside a partner and he'll give the CBs a headache.. play him down the left flank and tell him to run up and down the pitch and he'll be a massive failure... All we're judging him on is the little we've seen of him when Rafa played him... all being down the left flank... Rafa stressed on how important it was that Babel tracked back while all Babel had to say was that the role hes playing isnt his natural role.. kinda says something...

I agree that in the current side with the current setup, hes a waste of space... the potential is there (22 isnt a bad age at all) and i think most can see he has what it takes... its all a bit frustrating though seeing him lose the ball yet and again whenever he gets it near the halfway line... not where he should be getting on the ball imo...

Im not sure Torres would have been a big success had Rafa decided he was a left winger when we signed him either...

We dont have aave any good players as backup and hes arguably our best option upfront outside the starting 11... atleast try him there before relying on Voronin who has yet and again proven that he cant add anything to change a game..

by **aCe'** » Mon Aug 17, 2009 2:35 pm

maguskwt wrote:I would rather play Dirky boy up front than Babel... one of the worst players in the team at the moment not because he doesn't have talent but because he never learns and doesn't have the attitude to try and do better... all this talk about rafa not giving him the proper chance is BS... he had as much chance as Yossi had and look how Yossi always try to perform until he had become one of our key players... he had made impacts in games he comes on late... what did babel contribute? If we're lucky he would score a goal when we're like 3-0 up because the opposition was trying to get back into the game and was tired?

Benayoun is not a forward mate... Babel is...

It would be like bringing Defoe in, asking him to play down the left flank, to track back and link up with the DMs..etc then blaming him for not being up for it....

As i said, if Rafa tells him to play his natural game, little tracking back and moving off the ball as he pleases, i think he'll have a bigger impact...

atleast to me, its difficult to judge on how good a player he is given the way we play him.. in terms of contribution, not so difficult to come up with a verdict... useless and he will continue to be imo...

by **Reg** » Mon Aug 17, 2009 3:14 pm

Yeah but we´ve had the bugger long enough to know whether he´s going to shine in the role Rafa wants him to play and the answer is no.

Its a long time since the fans were so miffed by a player. Makes Dirky look like an angel.

by **Tim LFC** » Mon Aug 17, 2009 3:18 pm

I think lets just try him up front with Torres. See if he improves. I think we can utilize his pace and he might have a few good goals in him. Were probably just playing him in the wrong position. We should at least try him up there with Torres as Babel really probably doesn't enjoy playing LW like Rooney doesn't enjoy playing LW.

by **sixbuster** » Mon Aug 17, 2009 3:31 pm

Forget this lark of him playing up front with his pace etc, correct me if I'm wrong but was he not clean through yesterday from a ball ott and what did he do with his pace... he could not control the ball. Has had enough chances, at best a late/impact pacey sub.

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