Liverpool FC Forum

bigmick wrote:

Emerald Red wrote:Listen, lads, it's as simple as this: we need better full-backs, and we need a better option than Kuyt on the right. Benayoun isn't LFC material, and neither is Lucas. Can Rafa be blame for this? Debatable. Regardless of who is to blame, I said ages ago we will not win the league with Dirk Kuyt playing on the right. As good a job as he's doing, it's really an indication that the manager really is trying to make do with what he's got or what he's been given. Does anyone in here really believe that our board is willing to give Rafa 20 million for this player, and 30 for that player. That player being the quality that we need? No. I don't. Robbie Keane? It's up for debate now that Benitez didn't really want him to begin with. Whether or not that is to be believed is again a point for debate, though it's worth stating that it's becoming a more and more popular opinion amongst the fans of this club. Personally, I'm not sure to believe it or not, but leaving a 20 million pound player (who was never worth that money) out of the team is really questionable. Why do it? Could it have been that Benitez wanted one of those other targets of his, but was denied the cash or was stifled in some way in the negotiations? One thing is for certain, that if Rafa leaves, he'll have things to say about what really went on.

I broadly agree with your analysis of the team mate, few would argue with it. The wide midfield positions have been a problem since rafa came, and although Riera looks like he fills the gap on the left (without exactly being a World beater), we do still lack quality on the right.

The thing is though I think our current problems go beyond personel (as after all the team was good enough to lead the premiership) and go a bit deeper. The key is can rafa revamp his philosophy to avoid having the look of a busted flush about him.

He has made so many glaring mistakes IMHO, and not over five games but five years, that his credit may be all used up. We'll see.

Leonmc0708 wrote:

Kharhaz wrote:That is a good question though for Lando and Leon. Do you not get frustrated by some of the decisions made by rafa? the ones that make you scratch your head? I understand getting angry with "supporters" demanding rafa out but as most of us said early last year a majority would like him to see out his contract. I think its a good question posed by mick. If rafa isnt to blame for what a lot of people see as baffling decisions, whose fault is it? or is it just down to bad luck?

Of course.

If Liverpool do not win a game of football I am pis.sed off for a couple of days, if we lose I go over and over it, watching the replays, reading the commentary, listening to the interviews. I cant stand it.

At times I think its a burden this bird in my life.

But hten you get nights like Chelse Semi's and turkish nights in Istanbul, Dortmund finals and days out in Cardiff and it makes it al lworth it.

I question Rafa, I am dismayed at times by his team sheets and I often give that cow licking pi.ss off a nettle look to my brother when he brings on some obscure change fro mthe bench when we all seem to think that we know the right change to make.

Thing is, its like when you where in school and yer brother was suspended for glueing the teacher to the seat (true story actually) - you defend his name in the face of taunts even if you know he was wrong to do it, to the point of no return sometimes, - because you love the lad. In private you will tell yer best mate he was wrogn though.

Rafael Benitez has never set out to hurt Liverpool fans, He has never set out to purposely lose a game, he has set out to make my dreams come true. And for that I love the man like my own. Sometimes he has gotten it wrong and sometimes I think I knew what he should of done (dont we all) but he never did anything but try his best to make my club THE best.

I dont think changing hte players every week works, but I can see the reasons why someone who works with the players EVERY day might have other ideas.

I dont think Robbie KEane is worth more than £8m - in fact I now know he is not - but he (alledgedly) bought him so I will run with that. I feel vindicated in my hour long sermons down the boozer to the lads that he was not who we wanted, but I dont feel good about that, in fact I wish every day I was wrong.

LAst night, as I saw us lose the initiative once more in the title race, and our best player by a coutry mile trudge off, I thought to myself "WHAT THE FU.CK IS HE DOING". I still cant get my head round it. In fact I have tried not to think about it too much as I worry I may lose some of the respect/faith/love I have for the man, and I dont want to do that.

We are where I had hoped we would be at this stage - within a couple of points of the top. so for me its mission accomplished to date.

I never thought we could win the league this season, I firmy beleive that you need to have been in and around ut efore, as a team, felt the highs and lows and the pressure and the pain, to have the mental resolve to do what United are doing right now.

But I wont turn my back on him.

I did that to a certain extent with Houllier - and I feel ashamed of it. I had some wonderful times supporting this club under him also, and towards the end I turned against him, the same man who risked his life to return to the job of making my dreams come true. Once bitten twice shy - so I won do it with this man, not this time.

Lando_Griffin wrote:But to even compare either with Benitez is, for me, an insult to our current boss.

If you or anyone else disagree, then that's your parogative.

I agree with you Lando to be honest. I think Rafa is better than either of them.

I wonder though if Rafa were to leave tomorrow how history would view his tenure.

He won the Champions League witha sub standard team, which was largely left for him when he came. In doing so, he either completely miscalculated tactically to see us totally outplayed and 3-0 down at half time, or he showed tactical genius to replace a couple of injured players and change the formation, you decide. For me neither is the case. It wasn't rank bad management which caused us to be 3-0 down at half time, we just ran into a good team on a good night. Neither was it tactical genius which caused us to come back, it was one of those nights. They switched off, we switched on, Dudek stuck his hand out in the dying seconds and Shevczenko hit it from two yards etc. It was our night.

Since then he improved the team and won the FA Cup. At the end of this season he'll have been here five years and it remains to be seen if we can add to the haul.

Will history be kind to him? I'm not so sure. I think his actual achievements are better than they look on paper, but I do think he runs the risk of destroying his reputation with the way he's carrying on as of now.

If he's not careful he'll be remembered simply as the bloke who rotated the team a lot, and that would be unfair. He also made dodgy subs.  Just kidding about the last bit sorry 

bigmick wrote:

Lando_Griffin wrote:But to even compare either with Benitez is, for me, an insult to our current boss.

If you or anyone else disagree, then that's your parogative.

I agree with you Lando to be honest. I think Rafa is better than either of them.

I wonder though if Rafa were to leave tomorrow how history would view his tenure.

He won the Champions League witha sub standard team, which was largely left for him when he came. In doing so, he either completely miscalculated tactically to see us totally outplayed and 3-0 down at half time, or he showed tactical genius to replace a couple of injured players and change the formation, you decide. For me neither is the case. It wasn't rank bad management which caused us to be 3-0 down at half time, we just ran into a good team on a good night. Neither was it tactical genius which caused us to come back, it was one of those nights. They switched off, we switched on, Dudek stuck his hand out in the dying seconds and Shevczenko hit it from two yards etc. It was our night.

Since then he improved the team and won the FA Cup. At the end of this season he'll have been here five years and it remains to be seen if we can add to the haul.

Will history be kind to him? I'm not so sure. I think his actual achievements are better than they look on paper, but I do think he runs the risk of destroying his reputation with the way he's carrying on as of now.

If he's not careful he'll be remembered simply as the bloke who rotated the team a lot, and that would be unfair. He also made dodgy subs.  Just kidding about the last bit sorry 

I prefer to see Istanbul as "Plan 1 didn't work." "Plan 2 isn't possible as Finnan is now injured." "F*ck it - plan 3."

People seem to forget that this formation was used earlier in the season. It was always on the cards, even if Rafa hoped he wouldn't have to use it. Why people are reluctant to give the man credit is totally beyond me. But then, some might say that the most meticulous planner in football wouldn't have thought of it...
Let's be honest. This myth that the introduction of Didi and change to 3-5-2 was forced upon Rafa is utter tripe. Josemi was on the bench that night - a direct replacement for Finnan. Rafa CHOSE to alter things. If he truly were this stubborn prat the numbskulls of Newkit would have you believe, he would have stuck with the 4-4-2 system and we'd have been looking at 5-0. Like it, lump it, stick it up your or cum on it - I don't care.

It can't be all his fault when we lose and none of his doing when we win. You could say that the players let RAFA down 1st half, and that his complete change of formation and half-time talk altered it. (Not that I expect some on here to entertain that - it doesn't help their cause...)

I am telling you all now - the day Rafa leaves is the day this club goes back to the dark ages, be it with Moris or f*cking Martin O'Neill. The sheer hypocrisy of those who want the former here, having previously creamed themselves when Rafa outwitted him is baffling.

I honestly believe that if this forum is a proportionate indicator of the mentalities in this World, then God should put the Earth on the peno spot at tw*t us into the Sun sharpish.

Effes wrote:

Lando_Griffin wrote:I nearly cried when we sacked Houllier.

Herein lies the problem. Total blind faith.

The vast majority of Liverpool fans had had enough of Houllier by the time he went.

If you were like that with Houllier, I cant see a day when you'll ever want Rafa to go.

Dont get me wrong, I dont want Rafa out. I think he deserves to keep his job.
See how he does next season, then see what happens.

Lando_Griffin wrote:Why does it always have to be an argument with you, Saint?

I'm stating why I support Rafa. I nearly cried when we sacked Houllier.

But if for one moment you believe that Houllier or Souness were as good as Rafa, that's where me and you disagree. I respect, appreciate and thank Houllier for the good times and what he did. I respect Souness for his services as a player, and for giving it his best shot as a gaffer.

But to even compare either with Benitez is, for me, an insult to our current boss.

If you or anyone else disagree, then that's your parogative.