Liverpool FC Forum

[bigmick]

That is a good question though for Lando and Leon. Do you not get frustrated by some of the decisions made by rafa? the ones that make you scratch your head? I understand getting angry with "supporters" demanding rafa out but as most of us said early last year a majority would like him to see out his contract. I think its a good question posed by mick. If rafa isnt to blame for what a lot of people see as baffling decisions, whose fault is it? or is it just down to bad luck?

Of course.

If Liverpool do not win a game of football I am pis.sed off for a couple of days, if we lose I go over and over it, watching the replays, reading the commentary, listening to the interviews. I cant stand it.

At times I think its a burden this bird in my life.

But hten you get nights like Chelse Semi's and turkish nights in Istanbul, Dortmund finals and days out in Cardiff and it makes it al lworth it.

I question Rafa, I am dismayed at times by his team sheets and I often give that cow licking pi.ss off a nettle look to my brother when he brings on some obscure change fro mthe bench when we all seem to think that we know the right change to make.

Thing is, its like when you where in school and yer brother was suspended for glueing the teacher to the seat (true story actually) - you defend his name in the face of taunts even if you know he was wrong to do it, to the point of no return sometimes, - because you love the lad. In private you will tell yer best mate he was wrogn though.

Rafael Benitez has never set out to hurt Liverpool fans, He has never set out to purposely lose a game, he has set out to make my dreams come true. And for that I love the man like my own. Sometimes he has gotten it wrong and sometimes I think I knew what he should of done (dont we all) but he never did anything but try his best to make my club THE best.

I dont think changing hte players every week works, but I can see the reasons why someone who works with the players EVERY day might have other ideas.

I dont think Robbie KEane is worth more than £8m - in fact I now know he is not - but he (alledgedly) bought him so I will run with that. I feel vindicated in my hour long sermons down the boozer to the lads that he was not who we wanted, but I dont feel good about that, in fact I wish every day I was wrong.

LAst night, as I saw us lose the initiative once more in the title race, and our best player by a coutry mile trudge off, I thought to myself "WHAT THE FU.CK IS HE DOING". I still cant get my head round it. In fact I have tried not to think about it too much as I worry I may lose some of the respect/faith/love I have for the man, and I dont want to do that.

We are where I had hoped we would be at this stage - within a couple of points of the top. so for me its mission accomplished to date.

I never thought we could win the league this season, I firmy beleive that you need to have been in and around ut efore, as a team, felt the highs and lows and the pressure and the pain, to have the mental resolve to do what United are doing right now.

But I wont turn my back on him.

I did that to a certain extent with Houllier - and I feel ashamed of it. I had some wonderful times supporting this club under him also, and towards the end I turned against him, the same man who risked his life to return to the job of making my dreams come true. Once bitten twice shy - so I won do it with this man, not this time.

Excellent post that. Reading things like that makes me glad that I never try and pretend that I feel it as badly as some people (usually matchgoers) do, because quite simply I don't. I don't not because I don't want to, I don't because I haven't got the same feel, the same passion for the city and the club that Leon and Lynds and Nannie have. Can't compete with that and never will.

[Kharhaz]

Ahhh so you are human leon ! Thanks for the reply fella, you seem to stay your hand with knocking the decisions with regards to the team as of late on this forum so we seem to lose sight of your true passion towards the club. Its been a bad month for the team, no one can deny that. As far as rafa goes, I never thought id get to see our club lift the european cup but he made it happen, and as ive said before, he will remain a legend to me for that. I also have to admit I am losing faith in rafa, if we are still challenging by the end of the season and we are not battling for 4th or 3rd then we have progressed. And he therefore deserves a contract. If we fall away miserably, then rafas time for many of us is up.

[NANNY RED]

That is a good question though for Lando and Leon. Do you not get frustrated by some of the decisions made by rafa? the ones that make you scratch your head? I understand getting angry with "supporters" demanding rafa out but as most of us said early last year a majority would like him to see out his contract. I think its a good question posed by mick. If rafa isnt to blame for what a lot of people see as baffling decisions, whose fault is it? or is it just down to bad luck?

Of course.

If Liverpool do not win a game of football I am pis.sed off for a couple of days, if we lose I go over and over it, watching the replays, reading the commentary, listening to the interviews. I cant stand it.

At times I think its a burden this bird in my life.

But hten you get nights like Chelse Semi's and turkish nights in Istanbul, Dortmund finals and days out in Cardiff and it makes it al lworth it.

I question Rafa, I am dismayed at times by his team sheets and I often give that cow licking pi.ss off a nettle look to my brother when he brings on some obscure change fro mthe bench when we all seem to think that we know the right change to make.

Thing is, its like when you where in school and yer brother was suspended for glueing the teacher to the seat (true story actually) - you defend his name in the face of taunts even if you know he was wrong to do it, to the point of no return sometimes, - because you love the lad. In private you will tell yer best mate he was wrogn though.

Rafael Benitez has never set out to hurt Liverpool fans, He has never set out to purposely lose a game, he has set out to make my dreams come true. And for that I love the man like my own. Sometimes he has gotten it wrong and sometimes I think I knew what he should of done (dont we all) but he never did anything but try his best to make my club THE best.

I dont think changing hte players every week works, but I can see the reasons why someone who works with the players EVERY day might have other ideas.

I dont think Robbie KEane is worth more than £8m - in fact I now know he is not - but he (alledgedly) bought him so I will run with that. I feel vindicated in my hour long sermons down the boozer to the lads that he was not who we wanted, but I dont feel good about that, in fact I wish every day I was wrong.

LAst night, as I saw us lose the initiative once more in the title race, and our best player by a coutry mile trudge off, I thought to myself "WHAT THE FU.CK IS HE DOING". I still cant get my head round it. In fact I have tried not to think about it too much as I worry I may lose some of the respect/faith/love I have for the man, and I dont want to do that.

We are where I had hoped we would be at this stage - within a couple of points of the top. so for me its mission accomplished to date.

I never thought we could win the league this season, I firmy beleive that you need to have been in and around ut efore, as a team, felt the highs and lows and the pressure and the pain, to have the mental resolve to do what United are doing right now.

But I wont turn my back on him.

I did that to a certain extent with Houllier - and I feel ashamed of it. I had some wonderful times supporting this club under him also, and towards the end I turned against him, the same man who risked his life to return to the job of making my dreams come true. Once bitten twice shy - so I won do it with this man, not this time.

Top top post Leon

Nearly had me cryin that an no its not sarky because thats just summed up all my feelings about the man.

I tried saying something along them lines in another thread a few days ago. But im puttin words that want to come out of my mouth onto a keyboard

[account deleted by request]

That is a good question though for Lando and Leon. Do you not get frustrated by some of the decisions made by rafa? the ones that make you scratch your head? I understand getting angry with "supporters" demanding rafa out but as most of us said early last year a majority would like him to see out his contract. I think its a good question posed by mick. If rafa isnt to blame for what a lot of people see as baffling decisions, whose fault is it? or is it just down to bad luck?

Of course.

If Liverpool do not win a game of football I am pis.sed off for a couple of days, if we lose I go over and over it, watching the replays, reading the commentary, listening to the interviews. I cant stand it.

At times I think its a burden this bird in my life.

But hten you get nights like Chelse Semi's and turkish nights in Istanbul, Dortmund finals and days out in Cardiff and it makes it al lworth it.

I question Rafa, I am dismayed at times by his team sheets and I often give that cow licking pi.ss off a nettle look to my brother when he brings on some obscure change fro mthe bench when we all seem to think that we know the right change to make.

Thing is, its like when you where in school and yer brother was suspended for glueing the teacher to the seat (true story actually) - you defend his name in the face of taunts even if you know he was wrong to do it, to the point of no return sometimes, - because you love the lad. In private you will tell yer best mate he was wrogn though.

Rafael Benitez has never set out to hurt Liverpool fans, He has never set out to purposely lose a game, he has set out to make my dreams come true. And for that I love the man like my own. Sometimes he has gotten it wrong and sometimes I think I knew what he should of done (dont we all) but he never did anything but try his best to make my club THE best.

I dont think changing hte players every week works, but I can see the reasons why someone who works with the players EVERY day might have other ideas.

I dont think Robbie KEane is worth more than £8m - in fact I now know he is not - but he (alledgedly) bought him so I will run with that. I feel vindicated in my hour long sermons down the boozer to the lads that he was not who we wanted, but I dont feel good about that, in fact I wish every day I was wrong.

LAst night, as I saw us lose the initiative once more in the title race, and our best player by a coutry mile trudge off, I thought to myself "WHAT THE FU.CK IS HE DOING". I still cant get my head round it. In fact I have tried not to think about it too much as I worry I may lose some of the respect/faith/love I have for the man, and I dont want to do that.

We are where I had hoped we would be at this stage - within a couple of points of the top. so for me its mission accomplished to date.

I never thought we could win the league this season, I firmy beleive that you need to have been in and around ut efore, as a team, felt the highs and lows and the pressure and the pain, to have the mental resolve to do what United are doing right now.

But I wont turn my back on him.

I did that to a certain extent with Houllier - and I feel ashamed of it. I had some wonderful times supporting this club under him also, and towards the end I turned against him, the same man who risked his life to return to the job of making my dreams come true. Once bitten twice shy - so I won do it with this man, not this time.

Top post Leon 

[GYBS]

Sorry nanny  Leon has just stolen the post of the day off you

[NANNY RED]

Sorry nanny  Leon has just stolen the post of the day off you

Deservidly so an all.

[GYBS]

Prob deserves an upgrade to post of the season as it sums up what i feel and pretty much what most peope will prob feel hand on heart - bar the odd one or two

[red37]

Belter that mate.

No guff - no arrogance - no ascerbic 'wit' - no innuendo....just plain, honest and emotive expression. Simple.

Post of the year so far for me.

[Emerald Red]

Listen, lads, it's as simple as this: we need better full-backs, and we need a better option than Kuyt on the right. Benayoun isn't LFC material, and neither is Lucas. Can Rafa be blame for this? Debatable. Regardless of who is to blame, I said ages ago we will not win the league with Dirk Kuyt playing on the right. As good a job as he's doing, it's really an indication that the manager really is trying to make do with what he's got or what he's been given. Does anyone in here really believe that our board is willing to give Rafa 20 million for this player, and 30 for that player. That player being the quality that we need? No. I don't. Robbie Keane? It's up for debate now that Benitez didn't really want him to begin with. Whether or not that is to be believed is again a point for debate, though it's worth stating that it's becoming a more and more popular opinion amongst the fans of this club. Personally, I'm not sure to believe it or not, but leaving a 20 million pound player (who was never worth that money) out of the team is really questionable. Why do it? Could it have been that Benitez wanted one of those other targets of his, but was denied the cash or was stifled in some way in the negotiations? One thing is for certain, that if Rafa leaves, he'll have things to say about what really went on.

[Lando_Griffin]

Lest there be no misunderstandings, absolutely everyone is entitled tho their views on the manager and everyone else. I personally don't think that if someone is fervently pro-Rafa it means they are a c... Nor do I think if they believe in mass rotation it means they aren't a real fan. Nor so I think they are a fecking imbecile if they think the manager should be given a new contract at the end of the season. All are opinions, and are as valid as anyone else's. Many people who hold such opinions are regualr match-goers, and are 1 million per cent entitled to their opinion.

What I don't get though, is if you don't necessarily agree with that, in some peoples eyes that makes you "not a real fan", a "gobsh!te", "fickle" etc etc. How you can be fickle when you've been going on about something for four years I don't know, but there it is.


As for what should happen at the end of the season, I think from here on in should decide. To be perfectly honest I don't think it overly matters whether we finish 7 points off the top or 12 in terms of deciding where to go. It's how we do it that counts.

There is a distinct feeling that the manager has if not lost the dressing room, at the very least temporarily misplaced it. It's whther or not this situation is rectified which will decide his future I think. Stories about Gerrard and Carraher being p!ssed off with him (and no I wasn't there myself, nor do I have any Hienz or HP's) are as unsurprising as they are worrying. Did the team selection and substitutions give us the very best chance of winnign an important game against Wigan? Of course not, and as they watch another year in their quest for a league title slip away I'm not surprised they are p!ssed off.

How he repairs that damage I'm not sure, but that's what he needs to do. The damage in terms of his relationship with the likes of Keane is probably irrepairable, so he'll have to be sold off. My impression (once again it's only that) is as well that his relationship with Xabi Alonso was probably dealt a mortal blow in the Summer. I've noticed a distinct lack of mention of the manager and his methodology from Xabi, and I'd be very surprised if infact he was one of the Spaniards to jump ship should Rafa go. In all honesty, I'd be very surprised if there was a single player who would leave for that reason. Even Torres doesn't look quite right to me. There's something imperceptable about his gait which is different to last season.

  Sundays game is probably the biggest match of Rafa's Liverpool career, including the Champions League finals. Lose there, and we're dead in the water. From there, it might be really difficult to get the players up for a dogfight for third and fourth. The wheels could concieveably come off in no uncertain terms, and in those circumstances there's no telling what might happen.

Being aloof as a manager and treating players like robots is all well and good, but it would be unwise to then expect bust a gut loyalty from them. Whatever anyway, how we go in the league from now on will be crucial. You obviously don't change the manager now, but if I'm honest I suspect that come the end of the season we might then.

Mick. Stop banging the same drum, will you?

I did not say YOU were fickle. No-one has said YOU are fickle. You have maintained your opinions, which is there for everyone to see.

It's the silly b*stards who change theirs on a game-to-game basis I call fickle.

(And neither you, Ghandi, Xabi Alonso, Rafa, Eric Bristowe or God himself will ever tell me that changing your mind every week does not make you fickle.)

[LegBarnes]

Lest there be no misunderstandings, absolutely everyone is entitled tho their views on the manager and everyone else. I personally don't think that if someone is fervently pro-Rafa it means they are a c... Nor do I think if they believe in mass rotation it means they aren't a real fan. Nor so I think they are a fecking imbecile if they think the manager should be given a new contract at the end of the season. All are opinions, and are as valid as anyone else's. Many people who hold such opinions are regualr match-goers, and are 1 million per cent entitled to their opinion.

What I don't get though, is if you don't necessarily agree with that, in some peoples eyes that makes you "not a real fan", a "gobsh!te", "fickle" etc etc. How you can be fickle when you've been going on about something for four years I don't know, but there it is.


As for what should happen at the end of the season, I think from here on in should decide. To be perfectly honest I don't think it overly matters whether we finish 7 points off the top or 12 in terms of deciding where to go. It's how we do it that counts.

There is a distinct feeling that the manager has if not lost the dressing room, at the very least temporarily misplaced it. It's whther or not this situation is rectified which will decide his future I think. Stories about Gerrard and Carraher being p!ssed off with him (and no I wasn't there myself, nor do I have any Hienz or HP's) are as unsurprising as they are worrying. Did the team selection and substitutions give us the very best chance of winnign an important game against Wigan? Of course not, and as they watch another year in their quest for a league title slip away I'm not surprised they are p!ssed off.

How he repairs that damage I'm not sure, but that's what he needs to do. The damage in terms of his relationship with the likes of Keane is probably irrepairable, so he'll have to be sold off. My impression (once again it's only that) is as well that his relationship with Xabi Alonso was probably dealt a mortal blow in the Summer. I've noticed a distinct lack of mention of the manager and his methodology from Xabi, and I'd be very surprised if infact he was one of the Spaniards to jump ship should Rafa go. In all honesty, I'd be very surprised if there was a single player who would leave for that reason. Even Torres doesn't look quite right to me. There's something imperceptable about his gait which is different to last season.

  Sundays game is probably the biggest match of Rafa's Liverpool career, including the Champions League finals. Lose there, and we're dead in the water. From there, it might be really difficult to get the players up for a dogfight for third and fourth. The wheels could concieveably come off in no uncertain terms, and in those circumstances there's no telling what might happen.

Being aloof as a manager and treating players like robots is all well and good, but it would be unwise to then expect bust a gut loyalty from them. Whatever anyway, how we go in the league from now on will be crucial. You obviously don't change the manager now, but if I'm honest I suspect that come the end of the season we might then.

Mick. Stop banging the same drum, will you?

I did not say YOU were fickle. No-one has said YOU are fickle. You have maintained your opinions, which is there for everyone to see.

It's the silly b*stards who change theirs on a game-to-game basis I call fickle.

(And neither you, Ghandi, Xabi Alonso, Rafa, Eric Bristowe or God himself will ever tell me that changing your mind every week does not make you fickle.)

ahh man i was getting a really warm feeling in this thread then lando pops up and blood ruins it !!! 




















O and leon thats very heart felt post matey I can understand alot and i have much love for the man behind the job and thats all i gonna say.

[account deleted by request]

Listen, lads, it's as simple as this: we need better full-backs, and we need a better option than Kuyt on the right. Benayoun isn't LFC material, and neither is Lucas. Can Rafa be blame for this? Debatable. Regardless of who is to blame, I said ages ago we will not win the league with Dirk Kuyt playing on the right. As good a job as he's doing, it's really an indication that the manager really is trying to make do with what he's got or what he's been given. Does anyone in here really believe that our board is willing to give Rafa 20 million for this player, and 30 for that player. That player being the quality that we need? No. I don't. Robbie Keane? It's up for debate now that Benitez didn't really want him to begin with. Whether or not that is to be believed is again a point for debate, though it's worth stating that it's becoming a more and more popular opinion amongst the fans of this club. Personally, I'm not sure to believe it or not, but leaving a 20 million pound player (who was never worth that money) out of the team is really questionable. Why do it? Could it have been that Benitez wanted one of those other targets of his, but was denied the cash or was stifled in some way in the negotiations? One thing is for certain, that if Rafa leaves, he'll have things to say about what really went on.

I think that's an insult to both Keane and Rafa mate. Do you honestly believe that Rafa would allow almost half our transfer money to be spent on a player he neither wanted nor needed? Do you think Keane would have come if he knew that Rafa didn't want him?

I would be willing to accept that Rafa's first priority was Barry, and perhaps getting Keane was secondary to Barry, but I have no doubts that Keane was Rafa's choice.

BTW if Keane had been as big a success as Torres was in his first season, do you think this question would ever have been raised at all?

[LegBarnes]

Listen, lads, it's as simple as this: we need better full-backs, and we need a better option than Kuyt on the right. Benayoun isn't LFC material, and neither is Lucas. Can Rafa be blame for this? Debatable. Regardless of who is to blame, I said ages ago we will not win the league with Dirk Kuyt playing on the right. As good a job as he's doing, it's really an indication that the manager really is trying to make do with what he's got or what he's been given. Does anyone in here really believe that our board is willing to give Rafa 20 million for this player, and 30 for that player. That player being the quality that we need? No. I don't. Robbie Keane? It's up for debate now that Benitez didn't really want him to begin with. Whether or not that is to be believed is again a point for debate, though it's worth stating that it's becoming a more and more popular opinion amongst the fans of this club. Personally, I'm not sure to believe it or not, but leaving a 20 million pound player (who was never worth that money) out of the team is really questionable. Why do it? Could it have been that Benitez wanted one of those other targets of his, but was denied the cash or was stifled in some way in the negotiations? One thing is for certain, that if Rafa leaves, he'll have things to say about what really went on.

I think that's an insult to both Keane and Rafa mate. Do you honestly believe that Rafa would allow almost half our transfer money to be spent on a player he neither wanted nor needed? Do you think Keane would have come if he knew that Rafa didn't want him?

I would be willing to accept that Rafa's first priority was Barry, and perhaps getting Keane was secondary to Barry, but I have no doubts that Keane was Rafa's choice.

BTW if Keane had been as big a success as Torres was in his first season, do you think this question would ever have been raised at all?

I don't even have a problem with Keane buy yes we paid over the odds but no one could have guessed he would have played this bad in first half of season no one.

Don't remeber any one banging on about he was gonna be cack.

If I be truthful signing that get me was babel , lucus , benny.

These players I felt we didn't need babel was great young players had much following but I felt we bought him 1-2 seasons to early or maybe we could have bought him and then loaned him back to them for 1 -2 years.

Lucus felt just was a waste and showed rafas intentions to play 2 holding midfielders as then he would have alonso , masch and lucus in that position , for me that was a big sign in negitive management.

Benny that is one that puzzles me the most why buy and unatural winger that never goes down the wing ?

Also benny is really a AM if we all be truthful with our selfs rafa bought him why ? he don't even play a system with AM in it ? like a 4-4-2 dimond or a christmas tree formation like chavs back in day.

So why it just makes me go crazy.

[bigmick]

Listen, lads, it's as simple as this: we need better full-backs, and we need a better option than Kuyt on the right. Benayoun isn't LFC material, and neither is Lucas. Can Rafa be blame for this? Debatable. Regardless of who is to blame, I said ages ago we will not win the league with Dirk Kuyt playing on the right. As good a job as he's doing, it's really an indication that the manager really is trying to make do with what he's got or what he's been given. Does anyone in here really believe that our board is willing to give Rafa 20 million for this player, and 30 for that player. That player being the quality that we need? No. I don't. Robbie Keane? It's up for debate now that Benitez didn't really want him to begin with. Whether or not that is to be believed is again a point for debate, though it's worth stating that it's becoming a more and more popular opinion amongst the fans of this club. Personally, I'm not sure to believe it or not, but leaving a 20 million pound player (who was never worth that money) out of the team is really questionable. Why do it? Could it have been that Benitez wanted one of those other targets of his, but was denied the cash or was stifled in some way in the negotiations? One thing is for certain, that if Rafa leaves, he'll have things to say about what really went on.

I broadly agree with your analysis of the team mate, few would argue with it. The wide midfield positions have been a problem since rafa came, and although Riera looks like he fills the gap on the left (without exactly being a World beater), we do still lack quality on the right.

The thing is though I think our current problems go beyond personel (as after all the team was good enough to lead the premiership) and go a bit deeper. The key is can rafa revamp his philosophy to avoid having the look of a busted flush about him.

He has made so many glaring mistakes IMHO, and not over five games but five years, that his credit may be all used up. We'll see.

[account deleted by request]

Babel I have basically given up hope on. No bottle and not enough brain. I hope I am wrong but I am becoming more certain by the game.

Lucas I still have high hopes for. He needs to learn how to avoid fouling so often when making a tackle and how to impose himself more on a game. I think he is improving and given time will prove himself good enough.

Benny, I think was bought as an option, something a little bit different and with the ability to come on and maybe change a game. I don't think he has quite worked out and I don't think he is actually quite good enough.