Liverpool FC Forum

[LegBarnes]

Why does it always have to be an argument with you, Saint?

I'm stating why I support Rafa. I nearly cried when we sacked Houllier.

But if for one moment you believe that Houllier or Souness were as good as Rafa, that's where me and you disagree. I respect, appreciate and thank Houllier for the good times and what he did. I respect Souness for his services as a player, and for giving it his best shot as a gaffer.

But to even compare either with Benitez is, for me, an insult to our current boss.

If you or anyone else disagree, then that's your parogative.

I am not trying to cause an argument Lando just trying to show that sentiment and winning titles don't go hand in glove. To win the title you need the best manager you can get, not the one you like because of this reason or that....... the only real reason is that the manager wins games, and doesn't make too many mistakes that cost points.

Its the same with players, its great saying Kuyt works hard has the perfect temperament and supports lots of charities. If we can get a better player should we say no because Kuyt is a really nice guy?

Bill Shankly admitted that he allowed sentiment to rule is head, stayed loyal to his players and we didn't win a thing for 7 years.

I want the best players and the best manager we can get. If Rafa doesn't fall into that category NOW it doesn't matter to me how well he did 5 years ago.

I think we need to assess Rafa's performance at the end of the season, and if its not good enough he should go, no matter if he is the nicest bloke you could wish to meet or not.

Memories of past triumphs are great, but they don't win you any extra points.

I believe this team (that Rafa built) has underperformed, I think we could have done better. Thats the truth as I see it. I think we have thrown away a great chance by making too many mistakes, and lost too many points against teams that we should be beating comfortably.

You complain about Rafa having to take second and third choices, Yet Pennant(SECOND CHOICE) was more expensive than ANY Stoke or Wigan player for example. Maybe you have a point when we play Chelsea or even the mancs, but Stoke?

I hope we go on to win the league, but I fear we have blown our best chance in years and my worry is that under Rafa we always will.

Top post great football knowlage mate !

It ideal world would could be all nice all the time and live in a happy happy dream world where all the players we like could all dance around the field and score 10 goals a game a rafa would go to mt. olympus with this music playing http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=dvgZkm1xWPE&feature=related
and get accepted as a demi god.

But this is real life tough love is needed.

Surely if some players are not playing well here keeping them here is as much as a bad thing for them as it is for us , a fresh start for kuyt might be the best thing for him.

Look at sissoko ? and loads of others I ain't gonna go into now.

Remeber not every club is for every player.

I even think if babel don't come good soon he is gonna have to go because , I don't want a player at club that isn't doing for us and also i feel for him and a move might give him a happyer life.

[GYBS]

At half time in Istanbul Rafa was bringing off Traore and putting on Cisse to still go 3-5-2 but changed it when finnan got injured so brought on Didi instead and moved gerrard up higher alongside baros and moved vlad to more of a right wing back role - he then changed things once again once they brought serginiho on and moved gerrard to right back to nulify his threat . maybe not tactical genuis but he certaiinly had a big hand in it .

The one thing Lando says is something i said earlier

Why when we win all the players get created for it - Heard maybe people say the Istanbul win was down to gerrard and the players and same with the FA Cup win and nothing to do with any tactics from Rafa so he gets no credit

where as when we loose most people (not all ) seem happy to lump all the blame firmly and squarely on Rafas doorstep

So the guy cant win -

The team wins - the players get credit ?

The team looses - rafa gets the blame ?

Surely they are all responsible for both ?

[Sabre]

Top post great football knowlage mate !

Where?

In the bit that says that losing against Stoke is unacceptable?

The fact is that we're within a thin range of points of the first position, which means that after all, the others had to make too many unacceptable mistakes against Stoke too.

I guess that down in London also thought that under Mourinho they had reached everything they could reach. I guess they thought it would be better for the club to let Mourinho go and bringing Scolari. I'm sure there would be eloquent rants of "great football knowledge" in their forums too.

I guess that right now they know they did a mistake (I also was wrong on that BTW).

I agree the notion that if there's out there a better manager than Rafa we should bring him ASAP, there's no discussion that the club is what matters and if another manager is better, then he should come.

I disagree the notion that improving Rafa will be as easy as some people pretend.

But I guess we'll see that soon enough because to be perfectly honest, I feel this is Rafa's last season here.

I'll support the new manager equally, needless to say. Tough job he'll have.

[account deleted by request]

  T0SSER

[Judge]

Why does it always have to be an argument with you, Saint?

I'm stating why I support Rafa. I nearly cried when we sacked Houllier.

But if for one moment you believe that Houllier or Souness were as good as Rafa, that's where me and you disagree. I respect, appreciate and thank Houllier for the good times and what he did. I respect Souness for his services as a player, and for giving it his best shot as a gaffer.

But to even compare either with Benitez is, for me, an insult to our current boss.

If you or anyone else disagree, then that's your parogative.

I am not trying to cause an argument Lando just trying to show that sentiment and winning titles don't go hand in glove. To win the title you need the best manager you can get, not the one you like because of this reason or that....... the only real reason is that the manager wins games, and doesn't make too many mistakes that cost points.

Its the same with players, its great saying Kuyt works hard has the perfect temperament and supports lots of charities. If we can get a better player should we say no because Kuyt is a really nice guy?

Bill Shankly admitted that he allowed sentiment to rule is head, stayed loyal to his players and we didn't win a thing for 7 years.

I want the best players and the best manager we can get. If Rafa doesn't fall into that category NOW it doesn't matter to me how well he did 5 years ago.

I think we need to assess Rafa's performance at the end of the season, and if its not good enough he should go, no matter if he is the nicest bloke you could wish to meet or not.

Memories of past triumphs are great, but they don't win you any extra points.

I believe this team (that Rafa built) has underperformed, I think we could have done better. Thats the truth as I see it. I think we have thrown away a great chance by making too many mistakes, and lost too many points against teams that we should be beating comfortably.

You complain about Rafa having to take second and third choices, Yet Pennant(SECOND CHOICE) was more expensive than ANY Stoke or Wigan player for example. Maybe you have a point when we play Chelsea or even the mancs, but Stoke?

I hope we go on to win the league, but I fear we have blown our best chance in years and my worry is that under Rafa we always will.

i dont think the team is underperforming

i think its performing within its ability, and tbh, that is not good enough, however, formation and sub useage has left me bewildered, and that makes us play much worse

[Sabre]

  T0SSER

[account deleted by request]

Why does it always have to be an argument with you, Saint?

I'm stating why I support Rafa. I nearly cried when we sacked Houllier.

But if for one moment you believe that Houllier or Souness were as good as Rafa, that's where me and you disagree. I respect, appreciate and thank Houllier for the good times and what he did. I respect Souness for his services as a player, and for giving it his best shot as a gaffer.

But to even compare either with Benitez is, for me, an insult to our current boss.

If you or anyone else disagree, then that's your parogative.

I am not trying to cause an argument Lando just trying to show that sentiment and winning titles don't go hand in glove. To win the title you need the best manager you can get, not the one you like because of this reason or that....... the only real reason is that the manager wins games, and doesn't make too many mistakes that cost points.

Its the same with players, its great saying Kuyt works hard has the perfect temperament and supports lots of charities. If we can get a better player should we say no because Kuyt is a really nice guy?

Bill Shankly admitted that he allowed sentiment to rule is head, stayed loyal to his players and we didn't win a thing for 7 years.

I want the best players and the best manager we can get. If Rafa doesn't fall into that category NOW it doesn't matter to me how well he did 5 years ago.

I think we need to assess Rafa's performance at the end of the season, and if its not good enough he should go, no matter if he is the nicest bloke you could wish to meet or not.

Memories of past triumphs are great, but they don't win you any extra points.

I believe this team (that Rafa built) has underperformed, I think we could have done better. Thats the truth as I see it. I think we have thrown away a great chance by making too many mistakes, and lost too many points against teams that we should be beating comfortably.

You complain about Rafa having to take second and third choices, Yet Pennant(SECOND CHOICE) was more expensive than ANY Stoke or Wigan player for example. Maybe you have a point when we play Chelsea or even the mancs, but Stoke?

I hope we go on to win the league, but I fear we have blown our best chance in years and my worry is that under Rafa we always will.

i dont think the team is underperforming

i think its performing within its ability, and tbh, that is not good enough, however, formation and sub useage has left me bewildered, and that makes us play much worse

I obviously think the team is better than you do

[LegBarnes]

No what I am saying its not just that.

The players can only play as good as the manager sets them up and tells them what to do.

If they do as rafa tells them they might not get picked agian.

So they play with less passion , less drive , because they want to do there natural game but there managers setup don't let them.

In that CL final first half we looked like we had the system all wrong 2nd half rafa made few subs yes hamann was a great add for me held the midfield so gerrad got go and bomb on into the box.

But in that game gerrard took it by storm first jumping to head in a goal then 3rd goal making the pen.

Of course there was some good things done by rafa in that game but also some bad ones but its easy to forgive since we won it.

Now tho he is doing the same mistakes over and over agian that he mad in the first half of that CL final.

We are trying to fit our players into a system when really he should be fitting a system to our players strenghts.

Only job In football I feel you can fit players into your system with out unlimited funds and time is internation jobs as you normaly have a massive pool to chose from.

Rafa needs to let go of his master plan because he just don't have the players for it and work out a system that best works for what players/tallent he has.

[stmichael]

I nearly cried when we sacked Houllier.

Herein lies the problem. Total blind faith.

The vast majority of Liverpool fans had had enough of Houllier by the time he went.

If you were like that with Houllier, I cant see a day when you'll ever want Rafa to go.

Dont get me wrong, I dont want Rafa out. I think he deserves to keep his job.
See how he does next season, then see what happens.

That was very much the case with Houllier who obviously got ill but took his team backwards. However if you had suggested after we finish second Houllier had taken that team as far as he could you would have been slated to high heaven.

[Sabre]

The fact is that if we hadn't made a couple of individual mistakes (Benayoun, the last penalty) the opportunistic clueless wouldn't be saying what they're saying because we'd still be first.

[GYBS]

You got a good point there mate - individual mistakes has cost us a few points and games - lucas ,Yossi , Keane ,Kuyt , Babel ,Srktel , Xabi plus prb a few other have made a mistake that cost us a win and three points

[LegBarnes]

The fact is that if we hadn't made a couple of individual mistakes (Benayoun, the last penalty) the opportunistic clueless wouldn't be saying what they're saying because we'd still be first.

If I stick a seed up my bum would a plant grow as well ?

[Judge]

Why does it always have to be an argument with you, Saint?

I'm stating why I support Rafa. I nearly cried when we sacked Houllier.

But if for one moment you believe that Houllier or Souness were as good as Rafa, that's where me and you disagree. I respect, appreciate and thank Houllier for the good times and what he did. I respect Souness for his services as a player, and for giving it his best shot as a gaffer.

But to even compare either with Benitez is, for me, an insult to our current boss.

If you or anyone else disagree, then that's your parogative.

I am not trying to cause an argument Lando just trying to show that sentiment and winning titles don't go hand in glove. To win the title you need the best manager you can get, not the one you like because of this reason or that....... the only real reason is that the manager wins games, and doesn't make too many mistakes that cost points.

Its the same with players, its great saying Kuyt works hard has the perfect temperament and supports lots of charities. If we can get a better player should we say no because Kuyt is a really nice guy?

Bill Shankly admitted that he allowed sentiment to rule is head, stayed loyal to his players and we didn't win a thing for 7 years.

I want the best players and the best manager we can get. If Rafa doesn't fall into that category NOW it doesn't matter to me how well he did 5 years ago.

I think we need to assess Rafa's performance at the end of the season, and if its not good enough he should go, no matter if he is the nicest bloke you could wish to meet or not.

Memories of past triumphs are great, but they don't win you any extra points.

I believe this team (that Rafa built) has underperformed, I think we could have done better. Thats the truth as I see it. I think we have thrown away a great chance by making too many mistakes, and lost too many points against teams that we should be beating comfortably.

You complain about Rafa having to take second and third choices, Yet Pennant(SECOND CHOICE) was more expensive than ANY Stoke or Wigan player for example. Maybe you have a point when we play Chelsea or even the mancs, but Stoke?

I hope we go on to win the league, but I fear we have blown our best chance in years and my worry is that under Rafa we always will.

i dont think the team is underperforming

i think its performing within its ability, and tbh, that is not good enough, however, formation and sub useage has left me bewildered, and that makes us play much worse

I obviously think the team is better than you do

you are being conservative s@int

[GYBS]

Also can the manager be blamed for those individual errors ? or does that not lay fully with the player ?

[LegBarnes]

Yes those mistake fall to the player (on that day)but if that manager bought that player then once agian it falls back on manager(the bigger picture)  and his coaching skills.