Liverpool FC Forum

by **bigmick** » Sun Nov 16, 2008 7:57 pm

Number 9 wrote:
bigmick wrote:No problem Leon about deleting it, just wondering though why did you do it? Were you going for the quote button with the "top post that Mick" already typed in and did you just hit the wrong button, or you just thought "feck that, I'll delete it?" without actually reading it. Just out of curiosity like.

If he goes for the"Top post mick" scenario I will chew my own eyelids off!
Mick i love you...yeah i take the but you are good for it and deserve all I throw at yoU are liked a small headed Sabre!!

Love you too Baz and the "top post Mick" was I'm sure you know taking the p!ss, I didn't really think he was looking to post that

It's a funny one this though, this "it's far too early to specualte" and all that stuff. I just can't see it. It probably is a bit early to come out and say "I think we will win the league", it may even be early to say "I think we might win the league" (wlthough I don't see why TBPH but there you go), but the thread (the original one) was all about whether or not we are in the process of challenging for it.

I don't personally think it is too early to talk about that, because quite simply I think we are currently doing it. This what we are doing now, going from game to game and winning matches, as well as checking the results of our rivals, is challenging for the title. This is what it feels like.

To me it's not being overly optimistic, it is not jinxing the team, it is simply a matter of stating the glaringly obvious. We are currently in and amongst the tiny group of clubs (two to be precise) who are challenging to win the title. We take it as read that at some point the Mancs will make that group three, but the fact that we are in that group is for me anyway, beyond dispute.

Now as I said in the thread which got deleted, as with all "I know it's early's" there are different cut-off points for different people. If you said Dossena was not up to it six weeks ago, many people would have said "it's too early to say FFs", whereas now more people would probably agree with you. At which point we become "officially" involved in the title race is for each person to decide from their own perspective, but from my point of view we have been fully engaged since we beat Chelsea Away and played fantastically well. That means to say, if we lose our next ten matches and finish sixteenth, we have still in my eyes launched a legitimate challenge this season. This IS Rafa's first challenge for the Premiership as far as I'm concerned. It would obviously be lovely if we sustained it beyond Easter, but whether or not we do this is a real and genuine title challenge for me.

In the deleted thread I asked how we could sustain the challenge. Firstly and fairly obviously as it was me who posed the question, was that we should continue to select entirely predictable and boring teams. Many of us predicted the line up against Bolton, no prizes though as it was quite simply the best team available. More of that please, and that's exactly what we'll get from Rafa I believe.

We also need to be lucky with injuries. It kind of ties in with the previous point that we haven't got anywhere the depth of squad of either Man Utd or Chelsea, so we have to rotate much less than they do. A long term (rest of the season) injury to either Gerrard, Reina or Torres would probably put our hopes to bed, while injuries to Carragher, Riera or even Kuyt would be a huge body blow. We need a bit of luck there.

Thirdly, and I think this is crucial, we need to develop further our winning mentality. The games against Bolton and Tottenham were very similar, in that we went 1-0 up and then didn't press home the advantage. We still seem to have the mindset that we are a top four team, but not challengers. As such, we regard going 1-0 up away as a bonus rather than a right of passage. We've got to get out of this mindset, because two or three turnarounds like the one at Spurs will be enough to ensure we don't make it. We are going to lose the odd game anyway, so you can't afford to add on top of that ones where we have allowed the other team back into it despite them needing snookers.

Anyway sorry if people think it's too early to talk about it. I thought it was the most interesting thread on the boards currently, so thought I'd bring it back up again.

by **andy_g** » Sun Nov 16, 2008 8:13 pm

there's another factor that i think will be significant in the development of this title challenge (although personally i don't see 'title challenges' happening until the last couple of months of the season when every point becomes more or less crucial).

i'm wondering if not when we are going to hit this perceived top gear that most people are saying we haven't hit yet. i'm thinking that if we are going to hit it then we should be hitting it around about now if we haven't already. i'm concerned that if we continue getting through games without playing that well and squandering so many chances then we are going to become unstuck sooner or later and drop some very important points.

the fact that we haven't had much torres factor this season may go some way towards us not being breathtaking but the rest of this fairly regular team should have gelled quite nicely by now ready for him to slot back in.

if we can't step up to the next level then the luck that mick mentions is going to be the only thing that will bring in number 19. however, if we can really begin to play some good football and brush away a few sides with good goal margins then we won't need the luck and will (possibly maybe perhaps hopefully) have the winning of the thing in our own hands.

by **LFC2007** » Sun Nov 16, 2008 8:19 pm

I didn't feel the Bolton game was as reminiscent of the Spurs game as others do.

I just didn't get the same feeling, maybe it's because I thought we'd always get chances on the break, or because Bolton are notoriously goal-shy, or a combination of both.

by **bigmick** » Sun Nov 16, 2008 8:24 pm

We can probably play better I think, but I'd be surprised if we ever match the fluency of all the other big four teams. The main reason for that assumption is that we either play 4-5-1 with two sitters, or a fairly rigid 4-4-2. We don't have full backs by and large which bomb on, and we also don't yet have Torres sprinkling his "World-classnes" over the situation.

I'm not massively concerned by all thought o be honest. The goal difference gap to Chelsea is probably too big to bridge now so there seems little point in worrying about it, we simply know that to finish above them we are going to need to get more points than them. What we can really work on is our efficiency I think, and that comes back to the mentality. Get that second goal, go all for it and put the game to bed. At the moment we are far too entertaining to watch in that we play in many matches which are up for grabs until the last twenty minutes. We need those second goals, put the feet up and cruise home games. We'll get there though i think, this is after all the first challenge for the Premier League title of these players and this manager's careers.

by **bigmick** » Sun Nov 16, 2008 8:30 pm

LFC2007 wrote:I didn't feel the Bolton game was as reminiscent of the Spurs game as others do.

I just didn't get the same feeling, maybe it's because I thought we'd always get chances on the break, or because Bolton are notoriously goal-shy, or a combination of both.

I've only seen highlights of the Boltoin game LFC, and to be honest I wasn't talking about the performance so much, as the fact that we made hard work of getting the second goal. Chelsea went to west Brom and were 3-0 to the good at half time, we need to work on achieveing a similar efficiency I think.

Ultimately, if you are as much on top as we were against Spurs you normally win the game anyway even if it's only 1-0. Similarly, against Bolton we never really looked like we were going to lose it by all accounts. You do though run the risk of being the victim of a freak goal, a dodgy penalty etc if you don't/can't put the thing to bed. Though we have missed chances in both games under discussion, I get the feeling there is a slight tendancy (there certainly was first half against Spurs) to be content to be one up and dominating. I'd like to see this tweaked to be slightly content but really trying here and now to put it to bed while we're well on top. Most Premiership teams at Home will have a spell of pressure at some point, it's all about giving yourself a buffer I think.

by **LFC2007** » Sun Nov 16, 2008 8:46 pm

bigmick wrote:Though we have missed chances in both games under discussion, I get the feeling there is a slight tendancy (there certainly was first half against Spurs) to be content to be one up and dominating.
At the moment we are far too entertaining to watch in that we play in many matches which are up for grabs until the last twenty minutes. We need those second goals, put the feet up and cruise home games.

I think our best intentions were there, that is, we wanted to kill both games off, and although I agree that for 20min's first half against Spurs we could've created more, our chances came in the second half and we certainly looked intent on securing the killer goal, we just couldn't get it for whatever reason. Aginst Bolton it was slightly different in that they actually came out and gave us a game for 25min's second half, they unsettled us by not allowing us time and space on the ball. Still though, we got through it after the odd scare, had our chances on the break and took one of several clear-cut opportunities. I think the other two 'contenders' if you like have also failed to kill games off on more than one occasion. Chelsea early on against Wigan didn't get a second and were somewhat lucky to get all three points, the same happened against Spurs when they drew 1-1. As many times as us they've failed to truly 'kill the game off' by failing to second. The Manc's didn't get a killer second at Goodison and drew 1-1. They couldn't get a second at home to Newcastle either.

by **neil** » Sun Nov 16, 2008 10:52 pm

by **Sabre** » Sun Nov 16, 2008 10:55 pm

LFC2007 wrote:I demand a public inquiry.

Clearly, one for the comittee

by **Scottbot** » Sun Nov 16, 2008 11:48 pm

red37 wrote:Spot on.

Can we talk about (it) from around MAY 1st on though instead! And only if there is, say a 9 point gap ahead of the pack!! - Just to be sure like...

Seriously, its folly to be even speculating what could happen. Dream, hope and pray (if so) all you like...Nothing is decide yet. Nowt, nadda, nish - Zip! ZILCH! Absolutely f*ck all.

One thing is for deffo - and that you can guarantee, that the usual suspects (even Arsenal?) will all be thereabouts - we have to maintain at least parity regardless of whom drops the odd point here and there. Lets face it, Liverpool WILL also shed 'water' somewhere along the long line between here and the middle of May. The situation presently sees us hanging on in games we dominate in for uncomfortably long periods and while that can be translated as the hallmark of champions (indeed it possibly is...) especially if the full haul is gained from those games. We simply do not (clearly) have the resources to cope in a real crisis. Should, if/when that occurs. The positives far outweigh the negatives from previous campaigns and the signs are there...particularly in the garnering of points off the other top sides, overall we can definately say up until now, Rafa has and is challenging for the prize. Similarly, we have also had our share of luck (what champions dont?) But lets not count any chickens and just, as others have sensibly countered...carry on, one game at a time. You can only hope that Chelsea and United drop something as well. Because they will be close come the last knockings.

So far, so very good - made up. But lets not get ahead of ourselves. Of course its been an intolerably long wait for #19 and many (who can blame 'em) are biting at the knuckles to see Liverpool back on their 'perch' again. Me an all...

FULHAM -H
WEST HAM -H
BLACKBURN -A
HULL -H
ARSENAL -A
BOLTON -H
NEWCASTLE -A

Our remaining 7 League fixtures until New Year - i see no justifiable rason for not taking at least 17/18 points off those fixtures. That should see us over the halfway stage 'in contention' - and thats going to be good enough for me - like i said, until MAY!!!

Top post mate...

by **Scottbot** » Sun Nov 16, 2008 11:56 pm

I've found it kinda strange reading the boards this season because it does seem to me that posts (in general) have not been as positive as the results the team are achieving and it does seem to me that a lot of posters aren't really giving the Team (and the Manager) as much credit as they deserve. Good write-up of the game in the Times today, I like the start of the article below, it beats the drum and gives us a bit of credit for a great start to the season. It would be great if the tub-thumping reaches similar levels on these boards come April/May because that will mean we're still in the mix.

From The Times
November 17, 2008

Let us get the pub talk out of the way. Liverpool will not win the title this season because their defence is not as good as Manchester United’s or Chelsea’s and because their squad is not as strong as United’s, Chelsea’s or Arsenal’s. Well, on Saturday, a Liverpool defence missing Martin Skrtel and Álvaro Arbeloa handled everything that Bolton Wanderers could throw at them, while Fernando Torres sat on the substitutes’ bench.

Liverpool have beaten Chelsea and United this season and if they fail to win the Barclays Premier League in May, it will not be because Rio Ferdinand and Nemanja Vidic are better than Jamie Carragher and Daniel Agger or because United can leave players of Torres’s calibre on the bench. It will be down to bottle. Some teams have it, some do not and we are about to find out whether Rafael BenÍtez’s side have what it takes.

Against Bolton, a team who used to punch above their weight and finished in the top eight for four seasons from 2003 to 2007 under Sam Allardyce, BenÍtez’s side proved that they have more bottle than a Merseyside milkman. But Bolton under Gary Megson, an honest and hardworking manager, are a different proposition.

by **LFC2007** » Mon Nov 17, 2008 12:46 am

Sabre wrote:
LFC2007 wrote:I demand a public inquiry.

Clearly, one for the comittee

by **Dundalk** » Mon Nov 17, 2008 1:35 am

by **Owzat** » Mon Nov 17, 2008 11:20 am

Leonmc0708 wrote:
bigmick wrote:It really is most strange. There wasn't a single post on the thread which was in the least bit offensive, not a cross word was exchanged. To recapp, Kewell started the thread and a couple of people were worried it'd be a jinx. I said I wasn't, and that I was happy to launch the good ship "we are officially in the title race" or something like that anyway. I made the point that even if we lost our next ten games and finished sixteenth, we have already done enough in my eyes to have actually challenged this season.

I asked how we might sustain the challenge, and hoped for sonsistency of selection, more ruthlessness when 1-0 up and avoidance of injuries. I also said that I wasn't changing my opinion, we were officially in the race and we'd go very very close.

LFC came on and said that it was far too early to call it yet, and that if we were right up there after Christmas then we could call it a title challenge, the league has only just started etc etc (sorry if that's not on the button I'm just going from memory here). Ace quoted him and said he was spot on.

I came back and said fair enough, but in my eyes we were already in a challenge and in the meantime I'd man the ship until everyone was on board and we could cheer the lads home.

Broadly that was about it, but it got deleted. Very very strange end to a potentially very promising thread, but there you go.

Again - it was me ho deleted it and I apologise for any offence caused.

Censorship hits Liverpool boards shocker!

by **Judge** » Mon Nov 17, 2008 12:00 pm

i know its early....but

by **Leonmc0708** » Mon Nov 17, 2008 1:05 pm

Owzat wrote:
Leonmc0708 wrote:
bigmick wrote:It really is most strange. There wasn't a single post on the thread which was in the least bit offensive, not a cross word was exchanged. To recapp, Kewell started the thread and a couple of people were worried it'd be a jinx. I said I wasn't, and that I was happy to launch the good ship "we are officially in the title race" or something like that anyway. I made the point that even if we lost our next ten games and finished sixteenth, we have already done enough in my eyes to have actually challenged this season.

I asked how we might sustain the challenge, and hoped for sonsistency of selection, more ruthlessness when 1-0 up and avoidance of injuries. I also said that I wasn't changing my opinion, we were officially in the race and we'd go very very close.

LFC came on and said that it was far too early to call it yet, and that if we were right up there after Christmas then we could call it a title challenge, the league has only just started etc etc (sorry if that's not on the button I'm just going from memory here). Ace quoted him and said he was spot on.

I came back and said fair enough, but in my eyes we were already in a challenge and in the meantime I'd man the ship until everyone was on board and we could cheer the lads home.

Broadly that was about it, but it got deleted. Very very strange end to a potentially very promising thread, but there you go.

Again - it was me ho deleted it and I apologise for any offence caused.

Censorship hits Liverpool boards shocker!

Hardly censorship, more liek not wanting to get ahead of ourselves.

for 19 long years we have seen many false dawns - dont want this to be another, and eggs on faces to be the order of the day.

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