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Liverpool Football Club - General Discussion

Postby LegBarnes » Wed Sep 03, 2008 10:07 am

Ciggy wrote:
bavlondon wrote:How much money do those Indian brothers and that Norwegian guy have? More than DIC? I hope we do not see a repeat of before where we are just sold to whoever paid most for the shares rather than who actually has more money to spend.

Mukesh Ambani is the richest Indian in the world, but it doesnt matter whos richer than who.

I just want stability at the club, for rafa or who ever is the manager to get his 1st choice targets and not having to settle for 3rd and 4th choices.

And most of all I want our club back to normal with normal people running it, and are not gobbing off in the media every 5 minutes.
I want owners that have our best interests at heart.

Yes Me to ciggy be nice to be able to focus just on football for a whole season us liverpool fans haven't had to deal with this cr.ap much before its been a total shock.  :angry:
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Postby Ciggy » Wed Sep 03, 2008 10:12 am

Liverpool the subject of fresh Dubai bid

Sheikh Mohammed, the ruler of Dubai, has reportedly sanctioned an increased offer of £500 million to buy Liverpool.

By Mike Norrish
Last Updated: 9:22AM BST 03 Sep 2008

With the global banking crisis leaving Liverpool’s American owners unable to finance plans for a new stadium in Stanley Park, the club are in danger of treading water.

Cash flow is not a concern for Dubai International Capital, one of Sheikh Mohammed’s investment arms, who are now optimistic that this renewed bid will be accepted.

The new offer would clear the club’s debt and see Hicks and Gillett both walk away with a profit of £75 million.

Manchester City’s takeover by the Abu Dhabi United group makes the situation of Liverpool’s ownership all the more critical.

With such financial muscle, City can now realistically expect to mount a serious challenge for one of four Champions League places.

Liverpool and Arsenal are most at risk, but the impact of failure to qualify for the Champions League would be much greater at Anfield, where matchday revenues are dwarfed by those raised at the larger and more corporate-friendly Emirates Stadium.

It is estimated Arsenal generate £50 million more than Liverpool every year simply through this means, making the need to leave Anfield all the more pressing.

When they bought the club in 2007, Hicks and Gillett promised work on the new stadium would begin almost immediately.

But with annual interest payments of £30 million and the current financial climate as it is, there are fears on Merseyside that the Texan pair are simply incapable of fulfilling their pledges.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport....ll.html
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Postby maypaxvobiscum » Wed Sep 03, 2008 10:48 am

i think the yank busturds should actually PAY the arabs to buy liverpool for all the sh!t they've caused the club.
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Postby NiftyNeil » Wed Sep 03, 2008 10:51 am

Ciggy wrote:Liverpool the subject of fresh Dubai bid

Sheikh Mohammed, the ruler of Dubai, has reportedly sanctioned an increased offer of £500 million to buy Liverpool.

By Mike Norrish
Last Updated: 9:22AM BST 03 Sep 2008

With the global banking crisis leaving Liverpool’s American owners unable to finance plans for a new stadium in Stanley Park, the club are in danger of treading water.

Cash flow is not a concern for Dubai International Capital, one of Sheikh Mohammed’s investment arms, who are now optimistic that this renewed bid will be accepted.

The new offer would clear the club’s debt and see Hicks and Gillett both walk away with a profit of £75 million.

Manchester City’s takeover by the Abu Dhabi United group makes the situation of Liverpool’s ownership all the more critical.

With such financial muscle, City can now realistically expect to mount a serious challenge for one of four Champions League places.

Liverpool and Arsenal are most at risk, but the impact of failure to qualify for the Champions League would be much greater at Anfield, where matchday revenues are dwarfed by those raised at the larger and more corporate-friendly Emirates Stadium.

It is estimated Arsenal generate £50 million more than Liverpool every year simply through this means, making the need to leave Anfield all the more pressing.

When they bought the club in 2007, Hicks and Gillett promised work on the new stadium would begin almost immediately.

But with annual interest payments of £30 million and the current financial climate as it is, there are fears on Merseyside that the Texan pair are simply incapable of fulfilling their pledges.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport....ll.html

It sounds very much like paper talk to me. With Man City being bought out by wealthy Arabs, this story was always going to rear it's head in the aftermath of deadline day. The story contains no quotes at all so don't read anything into it.
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Postby Number 9 » Wed Sep 03, 2008 10:56 am

andy_g wrote:in my opinion football is losing its meaning fast. it has nothing to do anymore with a bunch of talented players being developed by a club, or of a club developing enough of a fanbase to allow it to generate revenue with which to improve its ground and playing staff (a realistic business model). success based on the genuine achievements of a club is becoming a thing of the past. if DIC come in, spend 300 million on the worlds superstars and we win the premiership next season, what will we be cheering? on the one hand, of course, that we are at the top again, and that we are not being overtaken by the mancs. but on the other hand, and more realistically, we will be cheering the depths of the pockets of our investors.

Thats very true Andy mate!
But the reality is the Premiership is becoming a billionaires playground,clubs are getting taken over by mega rich consortiums.
Thats the way its going whether we like it or not.
LFC have to move with it or get left behind,if we dont get proper investment soon how many other teams will have money to burn this time next year?
We will be overtaken and fall down the League.
The way things are going I would'nt be surprised if in 5-10 years time the whole League is owned by billionaires!

When you look at the money these people have its scary.Going out and buying a football club is nothing when you have,say £20billion!
Its like me or you going out and buying a car ffs!
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Postby bigmick » Wed Sep 03, 2008 11:17 am

I think the move towads salary caps, trnasfer caps, specified numbers in a squad etc are overdue already and will become more so over the next year or two if nothing is done. As it is there are only a couple of clubs who can realistically hope to win the league. Would I feel great if our new billionaire owner had deeper pockets than anybody elses billionaire and therefore by virtue of that fact we could win the League? Not really if I'm honest, it wouldn't rank up there with our glorious past for me.

I've long said there should be a limit on the number of players you can use in a season, say 22 at the absolute most. There should be no transfers during the campaign. Of that 22, a specified number (two or three) should be young players under say 19 years of age and British. Salaries should be capped per team at a sensible figure (say 30 million a year) and if the club wants to pay two blokes 5 million a year each that's fine, although obviously that then means by definition they have to pay the other blokes less. If one of the star players breaks a leg during the season, unlucky and you must use your other players.

The effect of the above wouldn't mean any one of twenty teams could win it, but I should think it's open the thing up to at least half a dozen teams or so. It would also mean that if we had say Gerrard and Torres injured for a long period, we wouldn't be able to go out and buy two new star men at christmas, we'd have to run with it. It woulod introduce an unpredictability and an excitement into the whole thing which after the initial euphoria of the first few weeks of the season, is sadly lacking for most clubs fans. A Fulham fan for instance knows categorically that if they stay up it's a triumph, and even competing for a European spot is completely unrealistic.   

Whenever you talk about salary caps, people always say "ah but it wouldn't work because of blah blah blah". There are three points to counter that. Firstly, if they don't do something before too long people won't want to go and watch it anymore. If the clubs become toys of the billionaires, why the feck should working people shell out their hard earned to go watch it? If i wanted to do that I'd get into Formula 1. Secondly, it works in America, and in Australia with their main sports. Thirdly, when people say "it won't work" it implies the system as is is does work, which clearly it doesn't and won't in terms of supplying a sporting spectacle with anything like an even playing field.
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Postby GOAT_2.0 » Wed Sep 03, 2008 11:29 am

Yeah i agree about the cap thing, probably will happen if man city go trying to buy every player under the sun, it can't carry on like this
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Postby andy_g » Wed Sep 03, 2008 11:35 am

Number 9 wrote:Thats very true Andy mate!
But the reality is the Premiership is becoming a billionaires playground,clubs are getting taken over by mega rich consortiums.
Thats the way its going whether we like it or not.
LFC have to move with it or get left behind,if we dont get proper investment soon how many other teams will have money to burn this time next year?
We will be overtaken and fall down the League.
The way things are going I would'nt be surprised if in 5-10 years time the whole League is owned by billionaires!

When you look at the money these people have its scary.Going out and buying a football club is nothing when you have,say £20billion!
Its like me or you going out and buying a car ffs!

you're right, baz. if liverpool want to keep up with the way things are currently going then we have to find our billionaire benefactor and fast. if we want to compete in the premier league that is the only way. but what exactly is it that we will be supporting?

micks analogy with formula 1 is on the money (lame pun intended).
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Postby RUSHIE#9 » Wed Sep 03, 2008 11:44 am

bigmick wrote:I think the move towads salary caps, trnasfer caps, specified numbers in a squad etc are overdue already and will become more so over the next year or two if nothing is done. As it is there are only a couple of clubs who can realistically hope to win the league. Would I feel great if our new billionaire owner had deeper pockets than anybody elses billionaire and therefore by virtue of that fact we could win the League? Not really if I'm honest, it wouldn't rank up there with our glorious past for me.

I've long said there should be a limit on the number of players you can use in a season, say 22 at the absolute most. There should be no transfers during the campaign. Of that 22, a specified number (two or three) should be young players under say 19 years of age and British. Salaries should be capped per team at a sensible figure (say 30 million a year) and if the club wants to pay two blokes 5 million a year each that's fine, although obviously that then means by definition they have to pay the other blokes less. If one of the star players breaks a leg during the season, unlucky and you must use your other players.

The effect of the above wouldn't mean any one of twenty teams could win it, but I should think it's open the thing up to at least half a dozen teams or so. It would also mean that if we had say Gerrard and Torres injured for a long period, we wouldn't be able to go out and buy two new star men at christmas, we'd have to run with it. It woulod introduce an unpredictability and an excitement into the whole thing which after the initial euphoria of the first few weeks of the season, is sadly lacking for most clubs fans. A Fulham fan for instance knows categorically that if they stay up it's a triumph, and even competing for a European spot is completely unrealistic.   

Whenever you talk about salary caps, people always say "ah but it wouldn't work because of blah blah blah". There are three points to counter that. Firstly, if they don't do something before too long people won't want to go and watch it anymore. If the clubs become toys of the billionaires, why the feck should working people shell out their hard earned to go watch it? If i wanted to do that I'd get into Formula 1. Secondly, it works in America, and in Australia with their main sports. Thirdly, when people say "it won't work" it implies the system as is is does work, which clearly it doesn't and won't in terms of supplying a sporting spectacle with anything like an even playing field.

Mick all your ideas/points are valid and would probably create a more level playing field much like it was before the inception of the Premier League. In theory it should work for  English football as it does in other footballing countries outside of Europe. There though is the NO.1 reason that at the moment it won't work or be seen in the Premiership for a long time. Europe or the EU to be more precise, the Brussels bureaucrats have already stuck the fooking oar in over the TV deals leading to it now costing more for an armchair fan to watch than it did under the old system. All of this restriction of trade bollox and right to earn as much as possible shite is what will kill football and is the reason why clubs are being forced to become billionaires playthings. 
The EU Bureaucrats have achieved nothing more than making the contracts that footballers sign worth even less than bog roll really and clubs are now counter-acting the ease with which they can lose a good player by asking for the idiotic sums of money we're now seeing.


As for the resurfacing of the DIC stories it's no surprise that they come on the back of the Citeh shenanigans and it would be a glimmer of light at the end of the tunnel but we've had that light on the horizon too many times now only for it to be stolen away at the last minute that I'm not going to believe anything until I see a herd of Camels (do you get herds of Camels??  :D ) parked in the directors spots at Anfield.  :D

Bav posted before that he hoped that we wouldn't have a repeat of the highest bidder taking over but in reality (no doubt he realises this himself) with Twit 'n' Twat it's gonna be just that IF they are to sell up. That texan twat will be out to ring every cent he can out of prospective buyers, at the moment I just want to see him and his canadian sidekick out and then we'll deal with the new owners then.
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Postby tubby » Wed Sep 03, 2008 11:47 am

Please its too far gone for that they cant go back and add rules now its impractical and could not be enforced. Big players would leave if they had salaries capped, do you know what that would do to TV revenue and ad deals if big players didnt want to play here any more.
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Postby stmichael » Wed Sep 03, 2008 11:49 am

The scary thing is, even if they sold Torres for £70m in January I really don't think that would bother them. As long as people keep turning up, then it doesn't change anything. If they had any self respect they would have left already, but they obviously don't.
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Postby kazza » Wed Sep 03, 2008 11:52 am

bigmick wrote:I think the move towads salary caps, trnasfer caps, specified numbers in a squad etc are overdue already and will become more so over the next year or two if nothing is done. As it is there are only a couple of clubs who can realistically hope to win the league. Would I feel great if our new billionaire owner had deeper pockets than anybody elses billionaire and therefore by virtue of that fact we could win the League? Not really if I'm honest, it wouldn't rank up there with our glorious past for me.

I've long said there should be a limit on the number of players you can use in a season, say 22 at the absolute most. There should be no transfers during the campaign. Of that 22, a specified number (two or three) should be young players under say 19 years of age and British. Salaries should be capped per team at a sensible figure (say 30 million a year) and if the club wants to pay two blokes 5 million a year each that's fine, although obviously that then means by definition they have to pay the other blokes less. If one of the star players breaks a leg during the season, unlucky and you must use your other players.

The effect of the above wouldn't mean any one of twenty teams could win it, but I should think it's open the thing up to at least half a dozen teams or so. It would also mean that if we had say Gerrard and Torres injured for a long period, we wouldn't be able to go out and buy two new star men at christmas, we'd have to run with it. It woulod introduce an unpredictability and an excitement into the whole thing which after the initial euphoria of the first few weeks of the season, is sadly lacking for most clubs fans. A Fulham fan for instance knows categorically that if they stay up it's a triumph, and even competing for a European spot is completely unrealistic.   

Whenever you talk about salary caps, people always say "ah but it wouldn't work because of blah blah blah". There are three points to counter that. Firstly, if they don't do something before too long people won't want to go and watch it anymore. If the clubs become toys of the billionaires, why the feck should working people shell out their hard earned to go watch it? If i wanted to do that I'd get into Formula 1. Secondly, it works in America, and in Australia with their main sports. Thirdly, when people say "it won't work" it implies the system as is is does work, which clearly it doesn't and won't in terms of supplying a sporting spectacle with anything like an even playing field.

So you mean you would weaken the strong to strengthen the weak. They have a name for that sort of thing and they called it socialism and it proved that it did not work as it dampened motivation for success.

I think free-market economics (and evolution for that matter) teaches us that leave things alone and everything will take it's rightfull place. If the weak cannot compete then maybe they should think of something else to do. Frankly Utd and Chelsea deserve what they have as they have paid the most for it, and indeed probably deserve it most, whether I like it or not.

Hand cuffing the strong to give the weak a chance is not the answer.If Abramovich wishes to spend all his money to help Chelsea win then he should be allowed to do it. If the Utd owners wish to put their club massively into debt to keep improving their squad then they should be allowed to as eventually they will pay the price if it was a mistake (Leeds Utd)

My opinion for what it is worth.
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Postby bigmick » Wed Sep 03, 2008 11:58 am

kazza wrote:So you mean you would weaken the strong to strengthen the weak. They have a name for that sort of thing and they called it socialism and it proved that it did not work as it dampened motivation for success.

Socialism? what?   :D

I don't want to have an argument about it and/or socialism, so we'll add it to our agree to differ list  :talktothehand
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Postby tubby » Wed Sep 03, 2008 12:02 pm

It has to be DIC not anyone else. Only DIC can compete with Chelsea and Man City. Its allwell and good saying we want someone who can give us stability but at the end of the day its about who has the most £. H&G obviously didnt have :censored: in the end so look what we are left with. 2nd or 3rd choice players. In a way its good what has happened at Man City as it will hopefully show our owners what it takes to compete now. They cant match that so hopefully they will sell up.
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