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Liverpool Football Club - General Discussion

Postby RedBlood » Tue Aug 12, 2008 8:10 pm

Kharhaz wrote:
Rush Job wrote:
Kharhaz wrote:
Rush Job wrote:
Kharhaz wrote:
Rush Job wrote:Any fan in the right mind would have Barry over Lennon or Downing, Lennons no better than Pennant ffs. Look  for the last time Rafa has brought in an attacking FB to provide width down the left so he needs someone infront who can drop back and provide cover when needed, IMHO Barry could fill that role better than anyone else mentioned, can you not see we arent in the market for an out and out winger having already signed an attacking FB he need someone who is just as good playing infront as he is behind.

The question though is the price. Downing and Lennon are wingers and would be played as such, but are they worth £18 million? no, of course not. Barry plays better as a midfielder but wouldnt make much difference, is he worth £18 million? Again no but I would much rather us spend money on a position which needs to be filled by players who have played there all there career than pay over the odds for a player who is at his peak in a position we have plenty of cover for.

Yes but thats not true because he's played most his career wide left, wingback or fullback not midfield, and no it wouldnt be right to say he's only played at a high standard since moving to CM.

He hasnt played on the flank all his career though has he? He has played in different positions. We need a pure winger more than anything and for me Barry, at £18 million has about 2 years at the max in that position, compare him to giggs and thats the difference. Giggs knows that position inside out, barry doesnt.

Like i said he's played most his career wide left, oh but just because he hasnt played every game there he doesnt know the position?  whatever mate, im sure Rafa see's it as a plus that he's a player who can play well wide left but is equally at home covering behind an attacking  FB whilst also able at very least to provide real competition/cover at CM, how can you use that versatility agaist him? its that that makes him an apealing player to us right now, if he was going to sign out and out wingers he wouldnt have brought in attacking FB's to provide width, think about it Dossena overlapping Silva? Alonso would never get out of defence.

For the record. I have never mentioned Silva as an alternative. Gareth Barry is a good player, heres how it is, he would be a good addition to LFC, he is vital to Aston Villa. Villa are limited and therefore Barry is a key player. Should rafa sign him, he is average, all over the field.Should we sign Barry, would he get that versatility nod from rafa or would Gerrard get it? The "pro" supporters for barry all say the same, he is versatile, so is gerrard but bloody hell, move him out of position and all hell breaks loose. Barry is a midfielder with basic options thats all.

m8 i think we should spend r money elsewhere so im not pro barry here

but i would be made up if we got him still coz hes better then average m8 alot better

its just a world class winger would bet r best option
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Postby stmichael » Wed Aug 13, 2008 1:41 pm

Regardless of the owners I'll feel a lot more comfortable if we had a Chief Executive who genuinely had the clubs interests at heart. He's well well past his sell by date.
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Postby Reg » Wed Aug 13, 2008 3:02 pm

stmichael wrote:Regardless of the owners I'll feel a lot more comfortable if we had a Chief Executive who genuinely had the clubs interests at heart. He's well well past his sell by date.

Thats a scandelous comment to make St Mike, if he was as incompetent as some suggest Moores would have dumped him years ago. Folks like to blame their frustrations on him but when you consider how quickly football has developed into a global sport, the CL has increased revenue and Abramovich and Manure has upped the anti in terms of transfer fees and working capital requirements, Parry has kept Liverpool in the forefront and in the leading pack.

I like to take the mick out of the guy and call him Coco etc.. but in fairness he is doing a difficult job pretty well. Remember, the club employed a financial advisor to value the club and bring potential buyers, if the club was undervalued and I believe it seriously was, they should be sueing the @rse off the advisors, not necessarily blaming Parry.
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Postby Rush Job » Wed Aug 13, 2008 3:24 pm

stmichael wrote:Regardless of the owners I'll feel a lot more comfortable if we had a Chief Executive who genuinely had the clubs interests at heart. He's well well past his sell by date.

Tell me about it, this clubs been held back long enough by that bumberling, dithering fool. And why does he always have to dress in dodgy shirts, your not at a 70's beach party coco your ment to be finishing that deal, remember... the one you started 3 years ago. Tw@t.
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Postby Igor Zidane » Wed Aug 13, 2008 4:00 pm

SOS MEETING WITH RICK PARRY.

I'm putting this in here as i think it's the only place for it to go at the minute.

Would it be a good idea for the mods to create a sticky for SOS stuff ,or would it be better to keep it in this thread .


Please see the following statement:

http://www.spiritofshankly.com/news/Meeting-with-Rick-Parry.html
UP THE PURPS !!!
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Postby heimdall » Wed Aug 13, 2008 5:46 pm

Igor Zidane wrote:SOS MEETING WITH RICK PARRY.

I'm putting this in here as i think it's the only place for it to go at the minute.

Would it be a good idea for the mods to create a sticky for SOS stuff ,or would it be better to keep it in this thread .


Please see the following statement:

http://www.spiritofshankly.com/news/Meeting-with-Rick-Parry.html

Well that was worth clicking on, so there was a meeting, great  ???
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Postby Igor Zidane » Wed Aug 13, 2008 6:19 pm

heimdall wrote:
Igor Zidane wrote:SOS MEETING WITH RICK PARRY.

I'm putting this in here as i think it's the only place for it to go at the minute.

Would it be a good idea for the mods to create a sticky for SOS stuff ,or would it be better to keep it in this thread .


Please see the following statement:

http://www.spiritofshankly.com/news/Meeting-with-Rick-Parry.html

Well that was worth clicking on, so there was a meeting, great  ???

Yeah well obviously i forgot to add , that Muppets don't need to click on the link.
UP THE PURPS !!!
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Postby The Manhattan Project » Wed Aug 13, 2008 7:27 pm

I'm amazed Rick Parry is still employed.

Tom Hicks wrote him a letter saying "I think you should resign"

Parry wrote one back saying "No"


It's like that time I wrote a letter to Sue Barker saying "I want you Sue"

She wrote back saying "No. If you send anymore letters, I will contact Scotland Yard"

I replied and said "Ohhhhh Sue....I love it when you play hard-to-get!!!!"
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Postby Toffeehater » Wed Aug 13, 2008 7:37 pm

Igor Zidane wrote:
heimdall wrote:
Igor Zidane wrote:SOS MEETING WITH RICK PARRY.

I'm putting this in here as i think it's the only place for it to go at the minute.

Would it be a good idea for the mods to create a sticky for SOS stuff ,or would it be better to keep it in this thread .


Please see the following statement:

http://www.spiritofshankly.com/news/Meeting-with-Rick-Parry.html

Well that was worth clicking on, so there was a meeting, great  ???

Yeah well obviously i forgot to add , that Muppets don't need to click on the link.

:laugh:
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Postby Reg » Sat Aug 16, 2008 12:40 am

Why Liverpool appear perilously close to breaking point
Martin Samuel, Chief Football Correspondent

There are a lot of potless billionaires out there. Men who did not do their homework and thought, because they had a lot of money, that running a Premier League club in England was going to provide even more. Wrong. Liverpool, Manchester City, Newcastle United, West Ham United, here were clubs that were meant to be embarking on bold new adventures, encroaching on the top four or on the title itself, funded by owners who had the resources to match their ambitions. What happened? Reality happened. The new money missed the boat.

The time to invest in English football was half a century ago, when there was a maximum wage and a 60,000 walk-up every week. No television deal or megastore, maybe, but Sepp Blatter's slave analogy would not have sounded so foolish given the employment conditions, and no player turned up his nose at £120,000 a week. In his peak earning years, and this included playing for AC Milan, Jimmy Greaves never earned more than £5,200 - per year. That was the time to turn a profit owning a football club, and nobody even knew who the chairman was. These days, we know not only the owner, but the name of the bank that is about to pull the plug on him, because it is only too obvious where the money goes.

Sorry about this. Today's column was intended to be a little more uplifting, more on the theme of a season of surprises. Liverpool for the title was the tag and it went west the moment the owners, Tom Hicks and George Gillett Jr, decided that they knew more about a footballer's worth to his club than their manager, Rafael Benítez. It is hard to fancy Liverpool to overturn Manchester United and Chelsea now, yet when the summer began, Gareth Barry was set to be Benítez's missing link and, had the club bought him, this could have been their season to evolve from a team capable of impressing in set-piece matches in Europe to one capable of emerging triumphant from the slog of the domestic season.

Instead, the way the move failed reveals much about the parlous state of the clubs under new ownership. At the weekend, Rick Parry, the Liverpool chief executive, said that Aston Villa's asking price of £18 million for Barry was too high. It is not. It is the going rate for an England central midfield player, as indicated by the fees paid by Manchester United for Michael Carrick (between £14 million and £18.6 million depending on success) and Owen Hargreaves (£17 million). Indeed, Barry is an England regular at present; Hargreaves and Carrick are not. Nor is age an issue, because Carrick, Barry and Hargreaves were all born in 1981. Barry is 34 days younger than Hargreaves and 155 days older than Carrick and Villa's valuation, for a player under contract, the captain and an important member of their team, is entirely reasonable.

Yet, privately, what is said to concern Liverpool's owners is Barry's resale value if he signs a four or five-year contract. And there is the key; if a player could be the difference between winning the championship and falling short, why should the eventual return matter? His cost would be reimbursed instantly if the trophy was installed at Anfield, and while that is a big if, so is every transfer of substance.

The resale issue with Barry confirms that there are serious financial concerns at Liverpool, despite the costly purchase of Robbie Keane from Tottenham Hotspur this summer. It has been well documented that Gillett would sell his half of the club at the right price, while Hicks wants to stay in the game. In the City, the word is that an American bank is ready to offer Hicks the funds to buy out Gillett, but not at the figure his partner wants because Gillett is insisting on a 30 per cent profit on the purchase price. Whether a Hicks buyout could resurrect the Barry deal, however, is questionable. If he plays for Villa against FH Hafnarfjördur, of Iceland, in the Uefa Cup tomorrow, and is cup-tied in Europe, Benítez may well give up hope.

Despite Parry's protestations to the contrary, the attitude of Liverpool's owners must greatly frustrate Benítez and threaten his commitment to the club. Funnily enough, in the paddock at Epsom, one rarely sees John Magnier, the head of the Coolmore Stud, overruling his trainer, Aidan O'Brien, so that he can pass instructions to Johnny Murtagh, the jockey; and Magnier knows a hell of a lot more about horses than Hicks and Gillett know of football. It seems bizarre to have an authority, a manager of experience and consistent success, and then ignore his expertise. Benítez must surely have impressed upon his employers the difference Barry would make to Liverpool: he would complete the starting XI.

Benítez is strong in most areas but requires a left-footed partner for Javier Mascherano in front of the back four. Barry is a perfect fit. With him, Liverpool could play the 4-2-3-1 formation that is all the rage right now, with Mascherano and Barry holding, Ryan Babel starting on one flank, Robbie Keane playing the Dirk Kuyt role on the other and Steven Gerrard behind Fernando Torres, with free range. Even the reserve options, Kuyt, Martin Skrtel, Sami Hyypia, perhaps Xabi Alonso, are good. The last piece of the jigsaw is an overused phrase, because even the best teams are in a permanent state of evolution, but Barry, potentially, was the most significant signing of the summer.

To be so close, and then to be distracted by talk of resale values, can only suggest a club perilously close to financial breaking point. Last season, it was believed that Liverpool's owners would struggle to service loan repayments if Champions League football was not secured and with Michel Platini, the Uefa president, intent on reducing the number of fourth-placed qualifiers from the leading countries, this precarious existence will not go away.

The team who finish fourth in the Barclays Premier League will have to play another non-champion from a leading European nation next season. Instead of FC Twente and Standard Liège, this season's opponents for Arsenal and Liverpool, the fourth-placed English team could be up against the likes of Fiorentina or Atlético Madrid, a far greater test.

General concern over the financial future of the club is likely to trouble Liverpool's owners more than the specific long-term worth of one player. At the weekend it was suggested that Benítez would now bid £18 million for David Silva, of Valencia, who plays on the left or as a playmaker behind the front two, the inference being that he has Barry's transfer fee available, but not for Barry. That would be madness. One of the positions Silva plays is already occupied by Gerrard, in the other Benítez has tactical options.

Why would any clear-thinking football business make a sum of money available, have the manager identify a target within that range and then tell him he cannot have the player, but can buy another instead? A year from now, Silva could be an excellent signing, as Liverpool move on, but right now, give Benítez what he wants.

Meanwhile, at Manchester City, Thaksin Shinawatra appears to be using his membership of the Potless Billionaires Club to avoid returning to Thailand, where he faces corruption charges. With many of his assets frozen, he is struggling to meet the costs of Premier League competition and short-term loans were recently required to pay the staff's wages. Kia Joorabchian, the agent, has become increasingly influential, which could also explain the involvement of Paul Aldridge, the chief operating officer, who did such a bang-up job helping to secure Carlos Tévez for West Ham two years ago.

Thaksin was another owner who arrived promising a great leap forward, like Liverpool's Americans and Mike Ashley at Newcastle, whose eagerness to wade into this Premier League jamboree was so great that he failed to complete the due diligence procedure when making his investment and is, as a result, surprised by even the most mundane aspects of football business. Ashley thought that the club owned the players on its their books and was subsequently confused to be told of substantial instalments due on individuals he had already seen in the black-and-white shirt. Latching on to that old phrase about looking after the pennies, he now wants the players to pay for such trivialities as club suits, a saving that might cover the postage the next time Newcastle have to send several million to Real Madrid for Michael Owen.

What these owners have in common is that they did not know football. This is why the business of it is now getting away from them. Pay attention and one will know the going rate for an established international footballer, or appreciate that transfers are paid in instalments and City are unlikely to attract sell-out crowds while mid-table. Roman Abramovich made a success of Chelsea not only because he is insanely wealthy, but because he understood from the start that running and maintaining a very successful football club required such lavish investment that, short term, it was a black hole.

Few can operate at Abramovich's level but, like Randy Lerner at Villa, at least they can be realistic. Those who arrived promising the earth to the fans, and a fast buck to their financiers, have been found out. There are not merely potless billionaires in the Premier League, but some pretty dumb ones, too.
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Postby Reg » Sat Aug 16, 2008 12:42 am

From The TimesAugust 16, 2008

Rafael Benítez points finger of blame over Gareth Barry

The strained relationship between Rafael Benítez and Rick Parry deteriorated last night when the Liverpool manager attempted to lay the blame for the farce surrounding the tortuous pursuit of Gareth Barry at the door of the club's chief executive.

Benítez has not given up hope of signing Barry, even though the apparent unwillingness of the Liverpool board to meet Aston Villa's £18million valuation, and the fact that the England midfield player is ineligible for the group phase of the Champions League after playing in the Uefa Cup for the Midlands club this week, would suggest that a deal is unlikely.

As dismayed as Benítez is that his judgment over Barry has been questioned, however, the manager appears to have been more angered by suggestions that he was at fault over the botched pursuit of the player and yesterday he tried to turn the tables, pointing the finger of blame at Parry, who, he says, has been responsible for the protracted negotiations.

Liverpool face Sunderland at the Stadium of Light this evening, but already the new season is in danger of being overshadowed by the backbiting and infighting that plagued the previous campaign.

“I will try to be very clear over the [Barry] situation,” Benítez said. “Everyone has been talking and it seems that the blame is put on me. I get blamed for everything, for global warming to high petrol prices. But in this case I want to be very clear. Since I talked to Martin O'Neill [the Villa manager] about the situation in April, I have not talked to anyone at Aston Villa.

“I was not involved in the talks about Barry, I was not involved in the talks about Xabi Alonso and Arsenal. If you want to talk about these players you must talk to the chief executive, who was handling the discussions. If you want to talk about players, talk to Rick Parry. If you want to talk about football, then you talk with me.”

Although Parry released a statement last weekend saying that the club deemed the price quoted for Barry as “too high”, Benítez appeared to cast some doubt on that assertion yesterday when he claimed that he had been told by Tom Hicks and George Gillett Jr, the owners, since then that there was still money available, without specifying whether it was for Barry or a different player.

“I don't have any problem with the owners,” Benitez said. “I was in contact with them, they told me that we had some money so it's not a problem. I think we can progress. They know the situation.”

Although O'Neill has hinted that Barry may still leave, Randy Lerner, the Villa owner, expressed hope that the player would stay and commit his future to the club, as Gabriel Agbonlahor and John Carew, the forwards, have done. Carew has signed a one-year extension to tie him to the club until the summer of 2011, while Agbonlahor has put pen to paper on a new four-year deal.
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Postby Effes » Sat Aug 16, 2008 12:51 am

I hate this thread. :(
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Postby Kharhaz » Sat Aug 16, 2008 12:56 am

Effes wrote:I hate this thread. :(

Me too, it borders beyond tediousness.
Bill Shankly: “I was the best manager in Britain because I was never devious or cheated anyone. I’d break my wife’s legs if I played against her, but I’d never cheat her.”
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Postby Number 9 » Sat Aug 16, 2008 12:10 pm

Igor Zidane wrote:
heimdall wrote:
Igor Zidane wrote:SOS MEETING WITH RICK PARRY.

I'm putting this in here as i think it's the only place for it to go at the minute.

Would it be a good idea for the mods to create a sticky for SOS stuff ,or would it be better to keep it in this thread .


Please see the following statement:

http://www.spiritofshankly.com/news/Meeting-with-Rick-Parry.html

Well that was worth clicking on, so there was a meeting, great  ???

Yeah well obviously i forgot to add , that Muppets don't need to click on the link.

:laugh:  :laugh:
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Postby Igor Zidane » Sat Aug 16, 2008 12:15 pm

Rafael Benitez Q&A
Oliver Kay answers our questions on where this leaves a troubled club

Following last night's revelation that Rafael Benitez came close to resigning as Liverpool manager after feeling undermined by the Gareth Barry transfer saga, Oliver Kay answers Times Online's questions about what this means.

Q: So Rafa Benitez seems to be intent on starting the new season as he spent much of the last -- in dispute with the Liverpool hierarchy. Are you surprised?

A: No. In fact, I'm surprised it has taken this long for things to blow up again. Benitez was told at the end of last season that he was going to have to wheel and deal in the transfer market due to the financial position at the club, which wasn't what he wanted. He has got on with that relatively quietly. Gareth Barry has been his top priority all summer long and here we are on the first day of the new Premier League season and still no deal.

Q: How close do you think he came to resigning?

A: He considered it, which is alarming enough for Liverpool's supporters, who will be aware that he left Valencia for similar reasons in 2004. He is clearly extremely frustrated not only by the board's failure to sign Barry but by the way they undermined him, agreeing a deal with Aston Villa, only to veto it on the basis that they did not share his view on the value of the player.

Q: What is the crux of the matter?

A: Essentially that he feels he cannot work with the people. Specifically he has a big problem with Rick Parry, the chief executive. There have been tensions between the two men for a long time. Rafa has frequently hinted at those tensions and he laid them bare at yesterday's press conference, blaming Parry for the failure to sign Barry and, it seemed, the "failure" to sell Xabi Alonso, who is no longer the apple of his eye.

Q: Why has this come out now and not last week?

A: Simply because last weekend Benitez and his allies were keeping their thoughts to themselves. Now it has come out of the Benitez camp -- though not from the man himself -- that he considered resigning. I should point out that the story was broken last night by www.guillembalague.com . Guillem is the journalist who knows Rafa and his inner circle better than anyone. I had no doubt when I heard about this story that it was correct, as subsequent enquiries confirmed.

Q: Do you think Benitez will be worried that the story has come out now?

A: I'm told that he will look to play down the situation when he is interviewed at Sunderland this evening. But he is a real political animal these days. He will not be distressed that these stories have come out. He will probably welcome the pressure that the revelations put on Parry, who was urged to resign late last season by Tom Hicks, the co-owner. Knowing Benitez, he will hope and expect that Parry comes under more pressure now. It is not a pleasant situation.

Q: What is the likely outcome in all of this?

A: It is impossible to predict anything at Liverpool right now. There is huge distrust between the manager and the chief executive, between the two owners (Hicks and George Gillett Jr), between Hicks and Parry, between Gillett and Benitez. The supposed alliance between Hicks and Benitez is only a marriage of convenience to suit their agendas. Literally anything could happen. Parry will be feeling the heat more than anyone, particularly if the transfer window closes without a deal for Barry or an equivalent player who meets the manager's requirements.

Q: Finally, what is the latest with Hicks and Gillett?

A: I still expect them to sell up sooner rather than later. The takeover talk may have quietened down, but it is about to resurface. From what I am hearing, there are changes ahead, but it is far from clear what form they will take. Sorry if that sounds vague, but right now, with so many rumours flying around about possible investors (and some of the names are quite shocking), no one can say with the slightest certainty what will happen next.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol....054.ece


Don't like the sound of the last bit, GEORGE W BUSH   anyone !!!!!!!
Last edited by Igor Zidane on Sat Aug 16, 2008 12:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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