Liverpool FC Forum

by **Trewyn** » Tue Jun 10, 2008 2:29 pm

RUSHIE#9 wrote:
Reg wrote:Isnt it inevitable that if you sell to a foreigner they will fail to understand the local feeling and treat it as a franchise?

Wouldnt DIC be the same?

It's a fair point REG and right now we can't say one way or the other. Then again the way things are panning out with stadler and waldorf wouldn't you sooner take that chance than stick with these two and see the club run into the ground like they are doing.
It may all be a charm offensive just like the terrible two did when they arrived, but DIC have already opened more corridors of communication with the fans directly than our "beloved" custodians have and listening to SOS they are very happy with what they are hearing.

DIC may also just see LFC as a franchise/brand name that they can make money out of but they appear to realise that they are gonna have to dig deep themsleves to make money.

No matter what side of the fence you sit on it's all a case of making sure one thing happens above all else. Liverpool Football Club be allowed to return to the once great institution that it was and not being gang raped by egotistical business men trying to gain a quick profit.

I think one of the very basic requirements of owners of football clubs is passion for the game itself. Until the yanks bought Liverpool, they had hardly an inkling of an idea of what football really is... which is a passion and life of many people.

Look at Abramovich, no matter what negatives there are about him, at the end of the day he has passion for the game. And it's this passion that has translated to success. He knows that if he wants short term success, he must spend like there's no tomorrow.

I'm sure DIC has passion for the game also, as long before Liverpool were up for sale, some of them were already supporting our team and seen at anfield. Where were the yanks then???

A simple judgement based on who enjoys and knows about football more really tells which party is truly looking at the club as just a static part of a business.

I seriously doubt Hicks or Gillet get any genuine happiness out of watching Liverpool win. Yes, happiness that their pockets are filled but nothing more...

Sigh... why won't they sell?? Please sell!!

by **Igor Zidane** » Tue Jun 10, 2008 2:44 pm

Reg wrote:Isnt it inevitable that if you sell to a foreigner they will fail to understand the local feeling and treat it as a franchise?

Wouldnt DIC be the same?

Your right to be concerned about DIC Reg .

When they do take over (i say when , because i still think they will imo) the first thing we will do as fans ,is let a collective sigh of relief out and say thank feck for that.

The second thing we MUST do is never let it happen again . We should and will hold DIC accountable for everything associated with the club . We will have to make sure we watch them like hawks and flag anything up at it's earliest possible stage.

We cannot and will not let our club be dragged through the sewer again.

by **parchpea** » Tue Jun 10, 2008 3:19 pm

We sold out because we didnt have the money to fund the stadium plans but big mistake was the guys we sold too dont have it either.

Not sure how well these people where vetted before we made such a monumental error but it does make me very angry that all those involved are still the main players at Anfield.

Quite honestly I do not think this will end anytime soon and though efforts have been made to shift the owners from power it will take a whole lot more yet if we are to have any hope of seeing them off.

by **Reg** » Tue Jun 10, 2008 3:28 pm

Igor, good points and I guess DIC´s supposed offer to have a fan representative on the board might actually allow that to become a reality.

by **heimdall** » Tue Jun 10, 2008 4:17 pm

I think the point about foreign owners is xenophobic twaddle, you could just as easily have a local owner who was skint and a complete pr1ck to boot. Do Hicks and Gillett somehow think that many peopel will want to buy Liverpool at the moment, they are playing a very very dangerous game, they need to seel about as much as DIC want to win, thenearer the refinancing comes the greater the pressure will be on them.

by **Reg** » Tue Jun 10, 2008 4:30 pm

heimdall wrote:I think the point about foreign owners is xenophobic twaddle

It has been clearly demonstrated that H&G have no understanding of either UK football culture nor Liverpool´s in particular. Its got nothing to do with xenophobia so lets knock that on the head right away. :sleep

by **Reg** » Tue Jun 10, 2008 10:04 pm

Football: Liverpool and our 'cheating' wealthy clubs
By Ian Herbert - the Independant

A house of cards - that is the only way to describe Liverpool football club this week. It's manager and star striker have disagreed over the importance of signing £25m players, while its owners revealed that the cost to Anfield of them taking over has been even greater than than the exposure to ridicule that Tom Hicks has caused.

There was a novelty factor to the club’s accounts for the year July 31 2007 which have surfaced at Companies House: Hicks and George Gillett’s signatures, scrawled beside each other. Not something we are likely to see again until Hicks finally agrees to his estranged business partner selling out to Dubai International Capital and they sign on it.

But there were also some extraordinary details in there, too. Like the Americans’ willingness to write off £10.4m – just to ditch stadium plans the club had drawn up before they arrived and replace them with their own. I am yet to find an architect who can explain how the club could have spent such money on a stadium model before ditching it. This platform is available now to any who can. There will be more write-downs next year when the club accounts for the fact that its second stadium model was also ditched in favour of something more modest - because soaring steel prices made the Americans' ambitions unrealistic.

And then there is the £1.5m in “personal expenses” which the Americans cost Liverpool in just the first seven months of their ownership. Travelling expenses, legal costs, “personnel costs” – all heaped on to the club into which the Americans were not investing a penny. It will be interesting to see how much cost Hicks, in particular, has hit the club on public relations services when next year’s accounts are delivered. Freud Communications appear to have joined Financial Dynamics (FD) on the Hicks pay-roll though Freud were unwilling to divulge yesterday exactly what their role for Hicks might be and referred media inquiries back to FD. Who are they working for - Hicks or Kop Holdings? Unclear. So much for the ‘Liverpool Way.’

All in all, it's the kind of detail which tells us that Michel Platini was both right and wrong on Friday when he railed, in L’Equipe, about the ‘cheating’ British clubs – Manchester United and Chelsea in particular – who buy success on tick. Yes, it is a concern that proprietors about whom we really know nothing are allowed to take up the reins at our clubs. But no, it’s not ‘cheating’. That would suggest something clandestine. Whether they discover trumph or disaster on tick next season, Liverpool is being torn apart – limb for limb – by Hicks in particular and the evidence of that fact is there for all to see.

Posted at 06:01 PM
++

Platini´s big mouth is only going to get louder. Since when did the president of UEFA start calling the senior clubs cheats? Out of order both professionally and otherwise. talk about inciting negative reactions.

by **tubby** » Tue Jun 10, 2008 10:10 pm

Why does that guy still seem to think that DIC is a possibility? I thought they signalled that they were no longer interested some time back?

by **Ace Ventura** » Tue Jun 10, 2008 10:11 pm

Reg wrote:
heimdall wrote:I think the point about foreign owners is xenophobic twaddle

It has been clearly demonstrated that H&G have no understanding of either UK football culture nor Liverpool´s in particular. Its got nothing to do with xenophobia so lets knock that on the head right away.

Think he might be hinting that thinking that DIC are foreign like H & G means that they will be the same is the xenophobic part mate.

I dont think there are any fans (apart from peewee

) that dont think that H & G are parasites raping our club and its fans.

Seems like he is just saying dont tar all foreigners with the same brush, which is fair enough.

by **J*o*n*D*o*e** » Tue Jun 10, 2008 10:33 pm

Liverpool is being torn apart – limb for limb – by Hicks in particular and the evidence of that fact is there for all to see

you know what the guy in the article above is right and the scary thing is not enough people are taking notice and standing upto them, well not untill its two late and we fall under the mountain of debt these two fookers will land us with.

i dont even think they have fallen out, just another ploy so nothing gets done.

by **heimdall** » Wed Jun 11, 2008 12:49 am

Ace Ventura wrote:
Reg wrote:
heimdall wrote:I think the point about foreign owners is xenophobic twaddle

It has been clearly demonstrated that H&G have no understanding of either UK football culture nor Liverpool´s in particular. Its got nothing to do with xenophobia so lets knock that on the head right away.

Think he might be hinting that thinking that DIC are foreign like H & G means that they will be the same is the xenophobic part mate.

I dont think there are any fans (apart from peewee ) that dont think that H & G are parasites raping our club and its fans.

Seems like he is just saying dont tar all foreigners with the same brush, which is fair enough.

Yepp, mind you I'm going to have to add Platini to the list of people I hate now.

by **Ciggy** » Wed Jun 11, 2008 6:28 am

From the independant.

10 June 2008
Football: Liverpool and our 'cheating' wealthy clubs

By Ian Herbert

A house of cards - that is the only way to describe Liverpool football club this week. It's manager and star striker have disagreed over the importance of signing £25m players, while its owners revealed that the cost to Anfield of them taking over has been even greater than than the exposure to ridicule that Tom Hicks has caused.

There was a novelty factor to the club’s accounts for the year July 31 2007 which have surfaced at Companies House: Hicks and George Gillett’s signatures, scrawled beside each other. Not something we are likely to see again until Hicks finally agrees to his estranged business partner selling out to Dubai International Capital and they sign on it.

But there were also some extraordinary details in there, too. Like the Americans’ willingness to write off £10.4m – just to ditch stadium plans the club had drawn up before they arrived and replace them with their own. I am yet to find an architect who can explain how the club could have spent such money on a stadium model before ditching it. This platform is available now to any who can. There will be more write-downs next year when the club accounts for the fact that its second stadium model was also ditched in favour of something more modest - because soaring steel prices made the Americans' ambitions unrealistic.

And then there is the £1.5m in “personal expenses” which the Americans cost Liverpool in just the first seven months of their ownership. Travelling expenses, legal costs, “personnel costs” – all heaped on to the club into which the Americans were not investing a penny. It will be interesting to see how much cost Hicks, in particular, has hit the club on public relations services when next year’s accounts are delivered. Freud Communications appear to have joined Financial Dynamics (FD) on the Hicks pay-roll though Freud were unwilling to divulge yesterday exactly what their role for Hicks might be and referred media inquiries back to FD. Who are they working for - Hicks or Kop Holdings? Unclear. So much for the ‘Liverpool Way.’

All in all, it's the kind of detail which tells us that Michel Platini was both right and wrong on Friday when he railed, in L’Equipe, about the ‘cheating’ British clubs – Manchester United and Chelsea in particular – who buy success on tick. Yes, it is a concern that proprietors about whom we really know nothing are allowed to take up the reins at our clubs. But no, it’s not ‘cheating’. That would suggest something clandestine. Whether they discover trumph or disaster on tick next season, Liverpool is being torn apart – limb for limb – by Hicks in particular and the evidence of that fact is there for all to see.

by **tubby** » Wed Jun 11, 2008 8:59 am

It looks like we will be scrapping for 4th place again. Man City are buying Ronaldinho and some other £20Mil rated Brazillian and we are signing the likes of some unknown Swiss numpty as well as other "may as well be free" players. Even Barry doesnt excite me that much.

by **metalhead** » Wed Jun 11, 2008 9:05 am

Yeh well thats us and we have to live with it, mosty likely the two clowns are here next season, so we just need to concentrate on the pitch next season and at least fight for the title, regardless what players we have.

by **NANNY RED** » Wed Jun 11, 2008 11:13 am

Cigg you said it before lets get back to talkin footie now the Daily Post are saying it

Financial mire at Anfield breeds mistrust

Jun 11 2008

by Andy Proudfoot, Liverpool Daily Post

I REMEMBER the days when following a football team was so simple. Before the days of wall-to-wall television coverage; before that interweb thingy was invented; before Radio 5 Live interrupted Sports Report to broadcast live commentary on Portsmouth versus Wigan.

All you had to do was pick up your morning paper, turn to the back page and devour the latest news and reports, reading the paper from back to front (if you got that far).

Nowadays I have to order the Financial Times and the Economist to keep abreast of takeovers, accounts, ownership structures, credit crunches and leveraged buy-outs.

The lunatic world of football finance grows ever more complicated, and the ordinary fan becomes more remote from the behemoths that used to be our local football clubs.

No wonder our grounds lack atmosphere; those in attendance are probably busy checking the stock prices and interest rate movements to see if their club is about to go into administration.

The last fortnight has been instructive: when we should have been speculating on the relative merits of Spain, France and Italy in breathless anticipation of a European festival of football, the headlines have been dominated by the ludicrous amounts of money offered for, and to, Cristiano Ronaldo; the £200,000 per week allegedly tempting Ronaldinho to join the Eastlands gulag; and of course Abramovich’s quest to hand another £100m to next door’s cat, or whoever else passes his front door when he takes another astute decision over his club’s managerial arrangements. Bizarrely, Michel Platini, the UEFA supremo, also chose the eve of the tournament to launch a tirade against the likes of Manchester United and Chelsea carrying huge debt to provide them with an unfair advantage over other clubs, going so far as to say this was ‘cheating.’

Now there’s probably a serious point in there somewhere, but shouting ‘big boys did it’ or pulling tongues is not the best way to get it across.

Sadly, our own club has now become embroiled in the financial quagmire, good and proper.

The publication of the accounts of Kop Football (Holdings) Ltd, the ultimate holding company in the structure which owns Liverpool FC, gave rise to a batch of headlines which were bound to reignite the smouldering resentment burning in the hearts of even the most moderate fan, patiently waiting to see if another Torres is due to arrive, or whether a spade will enter the ground in Stanley Park. Talk of losses, levels of debt, write-offs and travel expenses which would make an MEP blush are bound to be seized on by those who seek to discredit the American owners as evidence they are only seeking to line their own pockets.

The ownership structure is now so complicated that it is hard for seasoned financial commentators to disentangle, let alone your average football fan; Kop Holdings is apparently ‘two levels above Liverpool FC’ in the structure, and inter-company loans complicate the picture further.

This level of complexity breeds mistrust, and generates suspicion that its purpose is not just to keep our money out of the grubby hands of the taxman, but to prevent us all from forming a clear view of the owners’ intentions.

If the Gruesome Twosome are to have any hope of turning round fans’ opinions, they need to invest some time and energy into explaining exactly how their financial plans stack up, how the cost of the stadium is to be funded, and how the revenue will be generated to pay for it.

We might not all understand it, but we’d appreciate the effort. And perhaps then, we could go back to worrying about the footie, not the FTSE.

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