Liverpool FC Forum

by **The Manhattan Project** » Mon May 26, 2008 10:04 pm

Chelsea just announced that they want Torres because they can guarentee him a Champions League final defeat next season.

by **Penguins** » Mon May 26, 2008 10:20 pm

In any other situation I would laugh at that rumor but I wouldn't put it past those 2 swines to cash in since they only care about the dollar signs.

And it's not about just selling a player. it's a bout selling a top player to one of our worst rivals.
It would be a huge blow both for the supporters and for the team mentally.
First time we ever buy a player for around 20 million and we would selling him at first sight of profit would make us look foolish, money grapping and pathetic.

We need 3-4 more players in the Torres bracket like our rivals, not sell them at first opportunity.

I know it is a rumor but it is Hicks we are talking about here...
We don't even own the player fgs

by **King Carra** » Mon May 26, 2008 10:21 pm

I can't believe some people would even consider selling Torres? Even for £500m I wouldn't sell him, least at all to our EPL rivals. If they sell Torres then i'll be sick. :censored:

' Abramovic. It's making me sick, even with these rumours about which have blatantly been placed around so that he can try and unsettle the player.

If he goes then there'll be riot. I know I for one will be livid, and I guess 200,000+ other Liverpool supporters will be :censored:

off majorly. Selling Torres is even worse than Gerrard. Torres is IRREPLACEABLE. Even with £50m, we couldn't replace him.

by **7_Kewell** » Mon May 26, 2008 10:27 pm

King Carra wrote:I can't believe some people would even consider selling Torres? Even for £500m I wouldn't sell him, least at all to our EPL rivals. If they sell Torres then i'll be sick. ' Abramovic. It's making me sick, even with these rumours about which have blatantly been placed around so that he can try and unsettle the player.

If he goes then there'll be riot. I know I for one will be livid, and I guess 200,000+ other Liverpool supporters will be off majorly. Selling Torres is even worse than Gerrard. Torres is IRREPLACEABLE. Even with £50m, we couldn't replace him.

righto

by **NANNY RED** » Mon May 26, 2008 10:36 pm

Some gob.

called

AureliosHeel posted this on RAWK.

Its the biggest load of s.hit ive read in months. It actualy made me laugh dont know who hes tryin to kid

I've been pointed in the direction of RAWK as I've been told round these parts you'll find a group of open minded well, informed, intellectual Liverpool Fans whom are able to ascertain the difference between discernable facts and media induced hype and hysteria. As such here is a dose of reality behind the ongoing Saga for the 2007/08 season affectionately known as Anfield Rd.

Towards the end of the 2006/07 season Liverpool FC came under the ownership of two gentlemen from the USA Tom Hicks Snr and George Gillett the honeymoon period was great Fans all across the world revealed in the signing of players like Fernando Torres, Ryan Babel and looked forward to a campaign where in Liverpool FC would once again return to the summit of English Football.

Things however never turned out that way.

In October the semi publicized Aquisition loans taken out by Hicks and Gillett required refinancing and the hysteria began.

It's these loans that writers such as Tony Barrett the self styled media saviour of LFC have written upon on a number of occasions and anyone who reads the Echo on a regular basis will surely have seen his numerous attempts of re-spinning the same old story to fit in the fact as they slowly come to light.

Now here is a simplified break down of what Mr Barrett and many other media journalists have well neglected mention or even comment on.

Of the £350 million (Big number isn't it) that was refinanced in November 2007 the entire £245 million of the original Acquisition loan is secured against Kop Football Holdings with letters of credit, Personal Markers and assets belonging exterior to Hicks and Gillett and not against Liverpool FC and its assets. The remaining £105 million went into the clubs books for the construction of the much maligned new stadium and operational costs this £105 million is a new sum of money and not related in any way what so ever with the original acquisition loan taken out by Hicks and Gillett other than it came from the same sources.

So what does having the £245 million secured against Hicks and Gillett markers etc really mean?

Well first off as Liverpool FC is the only revenue producer for Kop Holdings a dividend will surely be taken from LFC to help cover Kop Holdings repayment and interest rates on the loan provided to it. So YES LFC's fans will eventually end up paying off said loans. But and this is a very big BUT that the media keeps glossing over and grossly getting wrong in some cases should Kop Holdings fall short of its repayment figures and forfeit on its loan then Liverpool FC is perfectly safe. None of LFC's assets are at risk for Kop Holdings Debts.

So remarks such as we're the next Leeds Utd waiting to happen, the club is on extremely bad financial grounds, we're Gretna in the making, are well well off the mark.

A fine example of a hardcore Leveraged Buyout (LBO) is our rivals from up the M62 Man Utd.

The Glazier example that Messers Hicks and Gillett described as a 'recipe for disaster' finds Man Utd FC and its assets £750 million in debt to various banks, hedge funds and investment management groups. All these organisations are renowned for not being overly sympathetic towards ones financial situation when they want their money back.

Hicks and Gillett were also referring to the Glazier model of ownership that saw massive rises in Ticket Prices not just at Man Utd but also Tampay Bay the NFL franchise owned by Malcom Glazier. In the years since his arrival the price of tickects at Utd have risen steadily above inflation rates and Season Ticket holders have been forced into the much publicised and currently legally challenged 'Automatic Cup Ticket' scheme which have angered the fans greatly.

Since Hicks and Gillett took over at LFC the price of Tickets has risen by a staggering..... errr... ummm... errr... Zero over inflation. Of course no one expects a shiny new stadium to be built without a slight increase in ticket prices once Stanley Park is completed you can expect a bump up to help pay for the thing.

So with all these little details overlooked on a daily basis the facts:

LFC is not at risk for the Acquisition Loan,

The freeze in Ticket Prices compared to the Glazier LBO Take over,

Oh and we're only £25 million worse off debt wise since they arrived. Under Moores and Parry the the club was £80 million in debt which was cleared during the take over.

The situation is in reality far from Grim.

Yes yes... I hear you all screaming.. "But we're going to have to pay it all in the end."

Of course we are if any thinks anyone is going to invest the size of figures required in Football today at our level without getting some kind of return from it your well not playing with a full team that's for sure.

Even Roman and there is only one Roman Abramovich who has loaned Chelsea FC £560 million for player purchases since he bought the club expects that figure back at some stage and its a figure that will rise. Least our owners are trying to shift us to a new stadium that will dramatically increase the clubs turn over and allow it to financially compete at a higher level in the Transfer Market as well as increasing the clubs valuation and their profit margins. Anyone seen Roman dip his hand in his pocket for £350 million for a new 60,000+ stadium for Chelsea?

Now that aside lets look back over the year and focus on what have the two bungling bafoon's at the top actually managed to achieve since the arrived.

Firstly, and for many most importantly the Squad. Though no one would suggest they select the players for Rafa's squad they write the cheques for them so whose come in since they arrived. Fernando Torres £20 million, Ryan Babel £11 Million, Yossi Benayon £6 million (all three of these players scoring over 10 goals a season and well Torres a lot more), Martin Skrtel £8 million, Nemeth and co for the very successful and extremely talented Reserve team around £6 million, Voronin (free) and the Monster Masch Javier Mascherano signing on a permanent deal.. a saga prolonged by his former owner Kai 'the money grabber' Jacobson.

So though I'm sure poor Voronin will get much stick can anyone doubt the standard of players signed for above at a net expenditure of about I believe £36 million has not increased the clubs strength in depth as well as its regular first team capabilities? We are importantly a better team than when they arrived.

The clubs merchandising department under went radical review and restructuring in the wake they arrived 12 new leading merchandising experts were brought in to revamp this massive under achieving department. One which for tops clubs like Real Madrid, Man Utd, Arsenal, Inter Milan, Barcelona generate massive revenues the most outside of revenue from on the field success. In fact the £24 million Real paid for Beckham was recouped in a month or two in shirt sales alone and our own new pretty boy Torres has likely had a similar impact on LFC's merchandising figures. The fact we have a brand new and by all accounts state of the art official Fan Store opening in Liverpool on May 29th is again another big step forward and improvement on previous standards of marketing the clubs massive profile to its fans. So merchandising returns an off the field success for the first time in well...err... ever. 15 + years of off the field failure in this area turned around in 1 year the fan store in Liverpool is also a model you'll see reproduced in key areas around the world to some scale or the other as merchandising is a big happy thing for americans.

by **Effes** » Mon May 26, 2008 10:45 pm

To be honest, my head's in a spin over the whole saga.

by **Ciggy** » Mon May 26, 2008 11:26 pm

NANNY RED wrote:Some gob. called

AureliosHeel posted this on RAWK.

Its the biggest load of s.hit ive read in months. It actualy made me laugh dont know who hes tryin to kid

I've been pointed in the direction of RAWK as I've been told round these parts you'll find a group of open minded well, informed, intellectual Liverpool Fans whom are able to ascertain the difference between discernable facts and media induced hype and hysteria. As such here is a dose of reality behind the ongoing Saga for the 2007/08 season affectionately known as Anfield Rd.

Towards the end of the 2006/07 season Liverpool FC came under the ownership of two gentlemen from the USA Tom Hicks Snr and George Gillett the honeymoon period was great Fans all across the world revealed in the signing of players like Fernando Torres, Ryan Babel and looked forward to a campaign where in Liverpool FC would once again return to the summit of English Football.

Things however never turned out that way.

In October the semi publicized Aquisition loans taken out by Hicks and Gillett required refinancing and the hysteria began.

It's these loans that writers such as Tony Barrett the self styled media saviour of LFC have written upon on a number of occasions and anyone who reads the Echo on a regular basis will surely have seen his numerous attempts of re-spinning the same old story to fit in the fact as they slowly come to light.

Now here is a simplified break down of what Mr Barrett and many other media journalists have well neglected mention or even comment on.

Of the £350 million (Big number isn't it) that was refinanced in November 2007 the entire £245 million of the original Acquisition loan is secured against Kop Football Holdings with letters of credit, Personal Markers and assets belonging exterior to Hicks and Gillett and not against Liverpool FC and its assets. The remaining £105 million went into the clubs books for the construction of the much maligned new stadium and operational costs this £105 million is a new sum of money and not related in any way what so ever with the original acquisition loan taken out by Hicks and Gillett other than it came from the same sources.

So what does having the £245 million secured against Hicks and Gillett markers etc really mean?

Well first off as Liverpool FC is the only revenue producer for Kop Holdings a dividend will surely be taken from LFC to help cover Kop Holdings repayment and interest rates on the loan provided to it. So YES LFC's fans will eventually end up paying off said loans. But and this is a very big BUT that the media keeps glossing over and grossly getting wrong in some cases should Kop Holdings fall short of its repayment figures and forfeit on its loan then Liverpool FC is perfectly safe. None of LFC's assets are at risk for Kop Holdings Debts.

So remarks such as we're the next Leeds Utd waiting to happen, the club is on extremely bad financial grounds, we're Gretna in the making, are well well off the mark.

A fine example of a hardcore Leveraged Buyout (LBO) is our rivals from up the M62 Man Utd.

The Glazier example that Messers Hicks and Gillett described as a 'recipe for disaster' finds Man Utd FC and its assets £750 million in debt to various banks, hedge funds and investment management groups. All these organisations are renowned for not being overly sympathetic towards ones financial situation when they want their money back.

Hicks and Gillett were also referring to the Glazier model of ownership that saw massive rises in Ticket Prices not just at Man Utd but also Tampay Bay the NFL franchise owned by Malcom Glazier. In the years since his arrival the price of tickects at Utd have risen steadily above inflation rates and Season Ticket holders have been forced into the much publicised and currently legally challenged 'Automatic Cup Ticket' scheme which have angered the fans greatly.

Since Hicks and Gillett took over at LFC the price of Tickets has risen by a staggering..... errr... ummm... errr... Zero over inflation. Of course no one expects a shiny new stadium to be built without a slight increase in ticket prices once Stanley Park is completed you can expect a bump up to help pay for the thing.

So with all these little details overlooked on a daily basis the facts:

LFC is not at risk for the Acquisition Loan,

The freeze in Ticket Prices compared to the Glazier LBO Take over,

Oh and we're only £25 million worse off debt wise since they arrived. Under Moores and Parry the the club was £80 million in debt which was cleared during the take over.

The situation is in reality far from Grim.

Yes yes... I hear you all screaming.. "But we're going to have to pay it all in the end."

Of course we are if any thinks anyone is going to invest the size of figures required in Football today at our level without getting some kind of return from it your well not playing with a full team that's for sure.

Even Roman and there is only one Roman Abramovich who has loaned Chelsea FC £560 million for player purchases since he bought the club expects that figure back at some stage and its a figure that will rise. Least our owners are trying to shift us to a new stadium that will dramatically increase the clubs turn over and allow it to financially compete at a higher level in the Transfer Market as well as increasing the clubs valuation and their profit margins. Anyone seen Roman dip his hand in his pocket for £350 million for a new 60,000+ stadium for Chelsea?

Now that aside lets look back over the year and focus on what have the two bungling bafoon's at the top actually managed to achieve since the arrived.

Firstly, and for many most importantly the Squad. Though no one would suggest they select the players for Rafa's squad they write the cheques for them so whose come in since they arrived. Fernando Torres £20 million, Ryan Babel £11 Million, Yossi Benayon £6 million (all three of these players scoring over 10 goals a season and well Torres a lot more), Martin Skrtel £8 million, Nemeth and co for the very successful and extremely talented Reserve team around £6 million, Voronin (free) and the Monster Masch Javier Mascherano signing on a permanent deal.. a saga prolonged by his former owner Kai 'the money grabber' Jacobson.

So though I'm sure poor Voronin will get much stick can anyone doubt the standard of players signed for above at a net expenditure of about I believe £36 million has not increased the clubs strength in depth as well as its regular first team capabilities? We are importantly a better team than when they arrived.

The clubs merchandising department under went radical review and restructuring in the wake they arrived 12 new leading merchandising experts were brought in to revamp this massive under achieving department. One which for tops clubs like Real Madrid, Man Utd, Arsenal, Inter Milan, Barcelona generate massive revenues the most outside of revenue from on the field success. In fact the £24 million Real paid for Beckham was recouped in a month or two in shirt sales alone and our own new pretty boy Torres has likely had a similar impact on LFC's merchandising figures. The fact we have a brand new and by all accounts state of the art official Fan Store opening in Liverpool on May 29th is again another big step forward and improvement on previous standards of marketing the clubs massive profile to its fans. So merchandising returns an off the field success for the first time in well...err... ever. 15 + years of off the field failure in this area turned around in 1 year the fan store in Liverpool is also a model you'll see reproduced in key areas around the world to some scale or the other as merchandising is a big happy thing for americans.

Whos that feckin tw@t what a gobsh!te callin barrett fit to burn cheeky feckin b@stard.

Hicks & Gillet out if your reading this forum you pr!ck no sympathy here for yer da oh and BTW dont step foot in Liverpool again either of yers or yer family.

by **Ciggy** » Tue May 27, 2008 1:19 am

Rangers website Tom is now planning a bigger stadium! This was part of his profile on the website.
"Along with Liverpool FC co-owner George Gillett of the Montreal Canadiens, Hicks is spearheading the conception, design and construction of an 80,000-seat, $700 million, state-of-the-art stadium for the football club. Hicks Sports Marketing Group will be heavily involved in the sales and marketing of the new stadium."

My feckin @rse you will

by **sugarcoatediceberg91** » Tue May 27, 2008 1:22 am

they just don't know when to stop do they?

get out of the club and don't return.

by **redsince2001** » Tue May 27, 2008 9:25 am

when is the stadium work supposed to start ?

by **Ciggy** » Tue May 27, 2008 9:27 am

redsince2001 wrote:when is the stadium work supposed to start ?

Ha warren Bradley has said in todays daily post Liverpool city council are considering a groundshare :angry:

by **redsince2001** » Tue May 27, 2008 9:31 am

Ciggy wrote:
redsince2001 wrote:when is the stadium work supposed to start ?

Ha warren Bradley has said in todays daily post Liverpool city council are considering a groundshare

i know saw it on the echo website ....... but dont think thats a realistic possibility ..... but when has hicks said the proposed stadium work will begin ? october ? cause then we can see .........whether we will actually be gettin a new stadium or not .

by **redsince2001** » Tue May 27, 2008 10:33 am

Liverpool Football Club have this morning labelled the suggestion that Fernando Torres could be sold as 'nonsense'.
A club spokesman said: "The idea that Liverpool Football Club would consider selling Fernando Torres is absolute nonsense. Everyone at the club is fully focused on improving the squad ahead of the new season."

by **heimdall** » Tue May 27, 2008 11:50 am

redsince2001 wrote:Liverpool Football Club have this morning labelled the suggestion that Fernando Torres could be sold as 'nonsense'.
A club spokesman said: "The idea that Liverpool Football Club would consider selling Fernando Torres is absolute nonsense. Everyone at the club is fully focused on improving the squad ahead of the new season."

Hicks wouldn't sell Torres for a penny less than £100 million if his valuation of LFC is anything to go by. :wwww

BTW Loved the heimdallberg jokes, very funny :bowdown

by **redsince2001** » Tue May 27, 2008 12:15 pm

RAFA: TORRES IS NOT FOR SALE
Liverpoolfc.tv 27 May 2008
Rafa Benitez today gave short shrift to suggestions Fernando Torres could be allowed to leave the club.
The Anfield boss claimed there was no offer which would persuade the club to part company with its record signing and top scorer.

Benitez said: "The situation is very simple – we do not want to sell Fernando Torres.

"If a player does a good job for his team, like Fernando has for us, then it is sometimes easy for people to speculate that he might be wanted by other clubs.

"I am not aware of any offer being made by Chelsea but even if there was my answer would be the same – he is not for sale.

"We are trying to add to the spine of our team and that means keeping players like Fernando, Javier Mascherano, Steven Gerrard and Jamie Carragher."

Earlier this morning, a club spokesman added: "The idea that Liverpool Football Club would consider selling Fernando Torres is absolute nonsense. Everyone at the club is fully focused on improving the squad ahead of the new season."

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