Liverpool FC Forum

by **redtrader74** » Wed Mar 05, 2008 1:56 am

LFC2007 wrote:
god_bless_john_houlding wrote:OK I'll accept that IF somebody can explain to me why Steve Coppell is managing a team below Sunderland, Birmingham, Spurs, Newcastle, Villa, City and Bolton. Keane, McCliesh, Ramos, Keegan (this time round) O'Neill, Eriksson and Megson have all be managing their repsective clubs for less time than Coppell has been managing Reading, but Reading are lower than them all. Your explanations here please.

I fail to understand why you persist in going down the route of isolating one factor that tends to influence the success of football clubs, disregarding a host of others, in an attempt to prove something. You do exactly the same thing with money and it's just fu.cking stupid.

Joe terp did not say more time as a manager at a given club = more success.

If it did, Guy Roux would've won 20 consecutive European cups.

What I believe he's saying, and what is obvious is; Wenger's gained significant experience in the English game during his time with Arsenal, that has made his ability to build a young talented side on a relatively low budget much easier.

hear hear.
He also said zones don't score so don't zonal mark.
Using his continually flawed logic, boots don't score, footballers do, so why wear them?

by **redtrader74** » Wed Mar 05, 2008 1:57 am

god_bless_john_houlding wrote:
redtrader74 wrote:
god_bless_john_houlding wrote:
redtrader74 wrote:
Time and money (please read this carefully) BOTH CONTRIBUTE TO THE CHANCE OF WINNING THE LEAGUE, BUT NEITHER ARE VALID EXCUSES FOR FAILURE.

Tell that to Billy Davis and your mate Jol.

Billy Davies was badly treated by the Derby board. Jol was forced to buy players he didn't want.

Don't care poor excuses for failure, they should still have performed, its not good enough.

Yes they should of, they didn't. Like Benitez isn't this season. Those two were sacked (wrongly IMO).

Davies didn't buy the right quality of player. Jol was looking for a way out because he knew he wasn't wanted by the board.

I was taking the p!ss.

by **LFC2007** » Wed Mar 05, 2008 2:06 am

redtrader74 wrote:
LFC2007 wrote:
god_bless_john_houlding wrote:OK I'll accept that IF somebody can explain to me why Steve Coppell is managing a team below Sunderland, Birmingham, Spurs, Newcastle, Villa, City and Bolton. Keane, McCliesh, Ramos, Keegan (this time round) O'Neill, Eriksson and Megson have all be managing their repsective clubs for less time than Coppell has been managing Reading, but Reading are lower than them all. Your explanations here please.

I fail to understand why you persist in going down the route of isolating one factor that tends to influence the success of football clubs, disregarding a host of others, in an attempt to prove something. You do exactly the same thing with money and it's just fu.cking stupid.

Joe terp did not say more time as a manager at a given club = more success.

If it did, Guy Roux would've won 20 consecutive European cups.

What I believe he's saying, and what is obvious is; Wenger's gained significant experience in the English game during his time with Arsenal, that has made his ability to build a young talented side on a relatively low budget much easier.

hear hear.
He also said zones don't score so don't zonal mark.
Using his continually flawed logic, boots don't score, footballers do, so why wear them?

by **heimdall** » Wed Mar 05, 2008 2:11 am

NANNY RED wrote:
heimdall wrote:
NANNY RED wrote:
god_bless_john_houlding wrote:[ So how long is long enough?

Bl.oody hell John i agree with the last bit only enough is enough now is not the time to be worrying about how long is a piece of string my priority at the moment is these con men and until they are gone this shoud be are only priority otherwise we could be talking not about the prem but the championship in the future mate if they remain at this club

I agree, now is neither the time or place to be discussing Rafa, lets all focus on getting the American clowns out of our club, then we can get back to the fun topics.

You just had to go and spoil it you cant help yourself can you well i hope Dic comes in and gives him a new five year contract ha ha

I was talking about the fun topics with GBJH keeps bringing back from the dead

by **account deleted by request** » Wed Mar 05, 2008 2:16 am

NANNY RED wrote:
heimdall wrote:
NANNY RED wrote:
god_bless_john_houlding wrote:[ So how long is long enough?

Bl.oody hell John i agree with the last bit only enough is enough now is not the time to be worrying about how long is a piece of string my priority at the moment is these con men and until they are gone this shoud be are only priority otherwise we could be talking not about the prem but the championship in the future mate if they remain at this club

I agree, now is neither the time or place to be discussing Rafa, lets all focus on getting the American clowns out of our club, then we can get back to the fun topics.

You just had to go and spoil it you cant help yourself can you well i hope Dic comes in and gives him a new five year contract ha ha

I think Rafa's best chance of a new contract lies with Hicks, not Dic. I think the only reason Hicks is getting Rafa on his side is as a PR excercise. Dic will maybe give Rafa the rest of his contract to prove himself, Hicks will probably offer Rafa a new contract if he thinks its worth his while to get the fans back on board.

Thats the way I see it anyway.

by **redtrader74** » Wed Mar 05, 2008 2:21 am

s@int wrote:
NANNY RED wrote:
heimdall wrote:
NANNY RED wrote:
god_bless_john_houlding wrote:[ So how long is long enough?

Bl.oody hell John i agree with the last bit only enough is enough now is not the time to be worrying about how long is a piece of string my priority at the moment is these con men and until they are gone this shoud be are only priority otherwise we could be talking not about the prem but the championship in the future mate if they remain at this club

I agree, now is neither the time or place to be discussing Rafa, lets all focus on getting the American clowns out of our club, then we can get back to the fun topics.

You just had to go and spoil it you cant help yourself can you well i hope Dic comes in and gives him a new five year contract ha ha

I think Rafa's best chance of a new contract lies with Hicks, not Dic. I think the only reason Hicks is getting Rafa on his side is as a PR excercise. Dic will maybe give Rafa the rest of his contract to prove himself, Hicks will probably offer Rafa a new contract if he thinks its worth his while to get the fans back on board.

Thats the way I see it anyway.

Saint do you think that Hicks really wants to stay? IMO i just think he is playing hardball, and trying to save face after all his rhetoric, by getting a big pay day. I also think he wants to see us getting through to the CL QF and maybe further, and using that to get a little more out of DIC.

by **NANNY RED** » Wed Mar 05, 2008 2:29 am

Saint what i cant get my head around is this new bezzy mates Raffa and Hicks its not working for me ive been told ages ago Raffa cant stand him and now all of a sudden there being portrayed as buddies well i smell a rat here, Raffa is up to something and i say that in the nicest way he tried to warn us before about them although it wasnt said straight, but i think hes up to something for the good of the club maybe im just being setimental but he loves this club and i cant see him jumpin into bed with Hicks and letting him destroy us

Take my word on this Raffa is up to something in all of this malarky

by **LFC2007** » Wed Mar 05, 2008 2:31 am

NANNY RED wrote:Saint what i cant get my head around is this new bezzy mates Raffa and Hicks its not working for me ive been told ages ago Raffa cant stand him and now all of a sudden there being portrayed as buddies well i smell a rat here, Raffa is up to something and i say that in the nicest way he tried to warn us before about them although it wasnt said straight, but i think hes up to something for the good of the club maybe im just being setimental but he loves this club and i cant see him jumpin into bed with Hicks and letting him destroy us

Take my word on this Raffa is up to something in all of this malarky

by **NANNY RED** » Wed Mar 05, 2008 2:35 am

LFC2007 wrote:
NANNY RED wrote:Saint what i cant get my head around is this new bezzy mates Raffa and Hicks its not working for me ive been told ages ago Raffa cant stand him and now all of a sudden there being portrayed as buddies well i smell a rat here, Raffa is up to something and i say that in the nicest way he tried to warn us before about them although it wasnt said straight, but i think hes up to something for the good of the club maybe im just being setimental but he loves this club and i cant see him jumpin into bed with Hicks and letting him destroy us

Take my word on this Raffa is up to something in all of this malarky

pmsl absolute quality Raffa the sneak

I really think though well be owing him one when all this comes out just my gut feelin

by **Kharhaz** » Wed Mar 05, 2008 2:52 am

Well the standards of this club is to win the league, we're not doing so and actually don't look like we will.

So do we persist with giving the excuse of time and money?

Houllier was given six years, Souness less than that and both were told you've had enough time. Benitez has had four up to now (same as Souness) and that isn't long enough. So how long is long enough?

That depends, how long are you prepared to wait? Previous managers have tried and failed and as supporters we have seen the faults for ourselves on how they have failed. Each team the manager has built needed changing. Of the three you have mentioned who would you trust in delivering? Or shall we sack rafa and wait another 4 years at least?

by **god_bless_john_houlding** » Wed Mar 05, 2008 3:28 am

Kharhaz wrote:
Well the standards of this club is to win the league, we're not doing so and actually don't look like we will.

So do we persist with giving the excuse of time and money?

Houllier was given six years, Souness less than that and both were told you've had enough time. Benitez has had four up to now (same as Souness) and that isn't long enough. So how long is long enough?

That depends, how long are you prepared to wait? Previous managers have tried and failed and as supporters we have seen the faults for ourselves on how they have failed. Each team the manager has built needed changing. Of the three you have mentioned who would you trust in delivering? Or shall we sack rafa and wait another 4 years at least?

If we sack or keep Benitez we'll be waiting four years at least.

Unless we bring in Gary Johnson where we'll waiting 8 months because he'd have us crowned champions of the premiership in March

by **god_bless_john_houlding** » Wed Mar 05, 2008 3:32 am

LFC2007 wrote:
god_bless_john_houlding wrote:OK I'll accept that IF somebody can explain to me why Steve Coppell is managing a team below Sunderland, Birmingham, Spurs, Newcastle, Villa, City and Bolton. Keane, McCliesh, Ramos, Keegan (this time round) O'Neill, Eriksson and Megson have all be managing their repsective clubs for less time than Coppell has been managing Reading, but Reading are lower than them all. Your explanations here please.

I fail to understand why you persist in going down the route of isolating one factor that tends to influence the success of football clubs, disregarding a host of others, in an attempt to prove something. You do exactly the same thing with money and it's just fu.cking stupid.

Joe terp did not say more time as a manager at a given club = more success.

If it did, Guy Roux would've won 20 consecutive European cups.

What I believe he's saying, and what is obvious is; Wenger's gained significant experience in the English game during his time with Arsenal, that has made his ability to build a young talented side on a relatively low budget much easier.

Yes and my point is Coppell has been managing at his current longer than the list I've already given at their current clubs but isn't doing better, so time isn't a proper excuse.

Benitez can perform better than other managers who've been in charge longer, Mark Hughes (blackburn) and Allerdyce (when at bolton) But nobody seems able to explain why. Not to where it actually convinces me anyway.

by **LFC2007** » Wed Mar 05, 2008 3:41 am

god_bless_john_houlding wrote:
LFC2007 wrote:
god_bless_john_houlding wrote:OK I'll accept that IF somebody can explain to me why Steve Coppell is managing a team below Sunderland, Birmingham, Spurs, Newcastle, Villa, City and Bolton. Keane, McCliesh, Ramos, Keegan (this time round) O'Neill, Eriksson and Megson have all be managing their repsective clubs for less time than Coppell has been managing Reading, but Reading are lower than them all. Your explanations here please.

I fail to understand why you persist in going down the route of isolating one factor that tends to influence the success of football clubs, disregarding a host of others, in an attempt to prove something. You do exactly the same thing with money and it's just fu.cking stupid.

Joe terp did not say more time as a manager at a given club = more success.

If it did, Guy Roux would've won 20 consecutive European cups.

What I believe he's saying, and what is obvious is; Wenger's gained significant experience in the English game during his time with Arsenal, that has made his ability to build a young talented side on a relatively low budget much easier.

Yes and my point is Coppell has been managing at his current longer than the list I've already given at their current clubs but isn't doing better, so time isn't a proper excuse.

Benitez can perform better than other managers who've been in charge longer, Mark Hughes (blackburn) and Allerdyce (when at bolton) But nobody seems able to explain why. Not to where it actually convinces me anyway.

Oh dear, the mental asylum beckons for you my friend.

by **Rush Job** » Wed Mar 05, 2008 4:45 am

god_bless_john_houlding wrote:
LFC2007 wrote:
god_bless_john_houlding wrote:OK I'll accept that IF somebody can explain to me why Steve Coppell is managing a team below Sunderland, Birmingham, Spurs, Newcastle, Villa, City and Bolton. Keane, McCliesh, Ramos, Keegan (this time round) O'Neill, Eriksson and Megson have all be managing their repsective clubs for less time than Coppell has been managing Reading, but Reading are lower than them all. Your explanations here please.

I fail to understand why you persist in going down the route of isolating one factor that tends to influence the success of football clubs, disregarding a host of others, in an attempt to prove something. You do exactly the same thing with money and it's just fu.cking stupid.

Joe terp did not say more time as a manager at a given club = more success.

If it did, Guy Roux would've won 20 consecutive European cups.

What I believe he's saying, and what is obvious is; Wenger's gained significant experience in the English game during his time with Arsenal, that has made his ability to build a young talented side on a relatively low budget much easier.

Yes and my point is Coppell has been managing at his current longer than the list I've already given at their current clubs but isn't doing better, so time isn't a proper excuse.

Benitez can perform better than other managers who've been in charge longer, Mark Hughes (blackburn) and Allerdyce (when at bolton) But nobody seems able to explain why. Not to where it actually convinces me anyway.

Give it up FFS ive just wasted part of my life reading though two pages of this :censored:

, it doesnt even make sence. WRONG THREAD. :sleep

by **flombs** » Wed Mar 05, 2008 5:10 am

here's some interesting reading regarding the whole take over saga... from the same guy dmjn100.

Well what a day & evening with regards to the goings on at Anfield.

Really, this just gets more insane by the hour.

From what I have heard - this is the latest.

George Gillett & PCP talks ended around midnight.

I have heard from someone who is being briefed by PCP that a deal is 'very close to being agreed' between DIC & George Gillett.

Talks are set to resume at a hotel in central London this morning at 8AM.

As I said sometime ago in here, George Gillett wants to deal with DIC and everything is very nearly in place to go ahead with the deal.

Tom Hicks who has so far resisted all overtures from DIC, despite meeting them both in Dubai & London in recent weeks, (despite all denials) is now said to be seriously worried by the DIC threat.

From what I understand, Gillett due to the contracts - has to negotiate with Hicks should he wish to sell, but Hick's problem is he can't match what DIC will offer.

Cant - Wont - Never will.

He simply doesnt have the resources.

So his plan of action is somehow to try and force Gillett to sell him 1% of his shares, so it gives him overall control - but no one who I have spoken with can understand how he can force Gillett to do that.

Hick's wish is to buy 1% of Gilletts shares, giving him OAC at Liverpool with 51% - but again no one understands how he can force that issue.

From what I have been told, the contract states - the selling party has to sell ALL shares to the other party, should one party wish to relinquish their stake.

It requires him to buy the whole 50% - and at the best price offered by whatever party.

So unfortunately for Hicks & the good news for LFC fans is that Hicks cannot force Gillett to sell just 1% - unless Gillett is offered a deal from Hicks that beats the offer from DIC. (which will not happen)

But other articles I have seen this moring suggest Hicks has some serious muscle in the States and enormous & intense pressure is being put on Gillett from Hick's buisness contacts - in an attempt to make Gillett fall in line & do what is asked.

As I said - this is messy stuff.

Before I leave - I will finish up by saying what I said sometime ago -

IMO -

DIC will end up having control at Liverpool in some capacity before long.

Dmjn100

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