Liverpool FC Forum

by **puroresu** » Thu Feb 14, 2008 12:04 pm

the_last_don wrote:
puroresu wrote:
Emerald Red wrote:
kazza wrote:
Emerald Red wrote:
kazza wrote:
NANNY RED wrote:Ano Emerald disgraceful isnt it and yet as i said before if we can find out about his dodgy life by just looking on the net how the hell did Parry and Moores not know this . Thats why Moores has to take alot of the blame here aswell he sold out for A FEW DOLLARS MORE.

Should we not be doing the same research on DIC?

LOL

Are you serious? Some of the richest people on the planet for fact. The guy owns a country ffs and is building islands in the ocean that make up a mini globe. They make Hicks look like he runs a chippy down the road. They are minted. They don't need loans that's for f*cking sure.

I was refering to past business dealings, success/failure etc. and more importantly whether they do what they say. They could have all the money in the world but it will not help us if they are money grubbing w@nkers.

Oil. Nuff said.

And going by the state of Dubai these days, I'd say their success rate in other areas is quiet good.

Building sky scrapers and fancy hotels doesnt mean progress. Immigrant workers treated like 2nd class citizens housed in the worst places and paid less money is not progress. Dubai has done well in the sense it doesnt rely on oil to fund there economy like the other gulf states. Building islands in the ocean that make up a mini globe is nothing but a gimmick. How about making sure all the people are eating and are housed. Also I dont think owning a county and being a glorified dictator is something to be proud of. Its not like the people have a choice on who runs the country.

I think you will find that UAE/Dubai have done a lot for humanity. I will point you to one case of one Sheikh Mohammed Bin Rashid al Maktoum (yeah the guy who own DIC).

Please check the following article on how what he done for a program called 'Dubai Cares':

http://archive.gulfnews.com/indepth....31.html

In short, Sheikh Mohammed arranged a donation scheme for everyone to donate money for children around the world. Approximately 1.17 billion dirhams was raised. On the last day donations were to be put in Sheikh Mohammed turned up and said from his own personal wealth he would double what the community have put in.

There are other scenarios that detail this mans nature, and what you say about Dubai is totally wrong. They have given oppertunity to people who back in their own countries would have no jobs, starving and near death.

Please do some proper research and back it up accordingly.

I aint disputing he will donate money to good causes but he aint no saint. The reason they employ so many migrant workers is cos the there own population do not want to do those jobs. For all the great skyscrapers and hotels built u dont see the labour camps that house hundreds of thousands of migrant workers who build this great buildings. However I guess they should be grateful as its better than being in there country of birth. The fact that public dissent is forbidden its pretty remarkable the workers did some strike action. Some would say the migrants should leave but many of them are fooled into going to Dubai in the 1st place at home. They are promised good jobs with a good salary and are made to pay for there visa. This usually involves taking out a loan. Its only when they get to Duabi and realise all aint what was promised and they gotta stay just to pay the loan back.

The country not signed important conventions of the International Labour Organisation. This is symptom of a tradeoff across the United Arab Emirates: there may be an economic boom, but there are precious few political freedoms. Everyone is encouraged to profit from heady economic growth, but no one is allowed to question the political leadership or the huge economic disparities. There are no elections and no opposition parties. There is no accountability and nobody questions the system because there are no political rights. The elites basically buy the allegiance of their citizens.

Oh and I aint making this up.

by **Ciggy** » Thu Feb 14, 2008 12:17 pm

puroresu Tom Hicks does the same in China paying Chinese workers 50 cent an hour.

by **Ciggy** » Thu Feb 14, 2008 12:25 pm

This is from Mat on the UK football forum,

Hello,

I was speaking with journo Martin Lipton this morning & he says his sources - from the Dubai side are telling him a deal is 'nearing conclusion'.

Both Americans are said to be going to DOUBLE there investment & they walk away having saddled the club with 350 million debt - without having to repay a penny of that loan.

Martin says his sources from within the Dubai group say they are willing to undertake that debt & 'new' negotiations have been taking place with the Royal Bank of Scotland in the last 72 hours.

I have been told from someone else - when DIC take over - they will not take that £350mill loan - but pay a 'hefty penalty' for not going ahead with the loan.

DIC do not need to borrow money to build the new stadium, nor will it bother them if they lose out on the grant Liverpool FC were due to recieve.

He said to me the deal has been agreed in principle & it is expected to go through 'within a few weeks'.

Negotiations between Sameer Al Ansari & Hicks/Gillett have been taking place for the last 4 months, but things changed when Sheikh Mohammed Bin Rashid Al Maktoum got 'personally invloved' with the deal in January & his people opened direct negotiations with first Hicks then Gillett.

Im told the Sheikh Mohammed has been given a 'personal promise' from Gillett he will sell his shares & will not renege on the deal this time.

Speaking with my source from Liverpool 15 minutes ago he said:

"Im aware things are moving quickly, but I have no new details to tell you - infact you guys will probably know more than us at the moment".

There is going to be much,much more on this in the next few days.

Watch this space.

by **puroresu** » Thu Feb 14, 2008 12:27 pm

Ciggy wrote:puroresu Tom Hicks does the same in China paying Chinese workers 50 cent an hour.

Not saying he didnt. Just making the point the guys from Dubai aint all sweetness and nice. They may be loaded but I would not be surprised if they do buy the club it wont be long before the Human rights orgs start to point out all the social ills in dubai under the reign of these guys.

by **RUSHIE#9** » Thu Feb 14, 2008 12:28 pm

It's probably been said already in here somewhere, but now that we have lost the distinction between Liverpool being a football club and a business we sadly have to accept that very few businesses don't have these sorts of skeletons in their closets. The best we can probably do as fans is to make sure that as fans we keep the traditions of the club strong and not allow any bad reputations tarnish the clubs reputation.
It'll all boil down to whether we want to see the club back at the summit of English and European football again. In the current climate it would seem that to do that you may not have to embrace the devil but we may have to give one of his mates a bit of a hug!

by **the_last_don** » Thu Feb 14, 2008 12:32 pm

puroresu wrote:
the_last_don wrote:
puroresu wrote:
Emerald Red wrote:
kazza wrote:
Emerald Red wrote:
kazza wrote:
NANNY RED wrote:Ano Emerald disgraceful isnt it and yet as i said before if we can find out about his dodgy life by just looking on the net how the hell did Parry and Moores not know this . Thats why Moores has to take alot of the blame here aswell he sold out for A FEW DOLLARS MORE.

Should we not be doing the same research on DIC?

LOL

Are you serious? Some of the richest people on the planet for fact. The guy owns a country ffs and is building islands in the ocean that make up a mini globe. They make Hicks look like he runs a chippy down the road. They are minted. They don't need loans that's for f*cking sure.

I was refering to past business dealings, success/failure etc. and more importantly whether they do what they say. They could have all the money in the world but it will not help us if they are money grubbing w@nkers.

Oil. Nuff said.

And going by the state of Dubai these days, I'd say their success rate in other areas is quiet good.

Building sky scrapers and fancy hotels doesnt mean progress. Immigrant workers treated like 2nd class citizens housed in the worst places and paid less money is not progress. Dubai has done well in the sense it doesnt rely on oil to fund there economy like the other gulf states. Building islands in the ocean that make up a mini globe is nothing but a gimmick. How about making sure all the people are eating and are housed. Also I dont think owning a county and being a glorified dictator is something to be proud of. Its not like the people have a choice on who runs the country.

I think you will find that UAE/Dubai have done a lot for humanity. I will point you to one case of one Sheikh Mohammed Bin Rashid al Maktoum (yeah the guy who own DIC).

Please check the following article on how what he done for a program called 'Dubai Cares':

http://archive.gulfnews.com/indepth....31.html

In short, Sheikh Mohammed arranged a donation scheme for everyone to donate money for children around the world. Approximately 1.17 billion dirhams was raised. On the last day donations were to be put in Sheikh Mohammed turned up and said from his own personal wealth he would double what the community have put in.

There are other scenarios that detail this mans nature, and what you say about Dubai is totally wrong. They have given oppertunity to people who back in their own countries would have no jobs, starving and near death.

Please do some proper research and back it up accordingly.

I aint disputing he will donate money to good causes but he aint no saint. The reason they employ so many migrant workers is cos the there own population do not want to do those jobs. For all the great skyscrapers and hotels built u dont see the labour camps that house hundreds of thousands of migrant workers who build this great buildings. However I guess they should be grateful as its better than being in there country of birth. The fact that public dissent is forbidden its pretty remarkable the workers did some strike action. Some would say the migrants should leave but many of them are fooled into going to Dubai in the 1st place at home. They are promised good jobs with a good salary and are made to pay for there visa. This usually involves taking out a loan. Its only when they get to Duabi and realise all aint what was promised and they gotta stay just to pay the loan back.

The country not signed important conventions of the International Labour Organisation. This is symptom of a tradeoff across the United Arab Emirates: there may be an economic boom, but there are precious few political freedoms. Everyone is encouraged to profit from heady economic growth, but no one is allowed to question the political leadership or the huge economic disparities. There are no elections and no opposition parties. There is no accountability and nobody questions the system because there are no political rights. The elites basically buy the allegiance of their citizens.

Oh and I aint making this up.

I tell you why i can repsond to your comment. I actually live and work in dubai as a non-national. Everything you are saying is basically from the reports you have seen on sites like BBC and Skynews.

Why does no one speak out about the leadership? Because they are doing a damn good job of it thats why.

There are no such things as immigrants, the UAE does not provide citizenship to workers, we termed under expats.

You talk about labour camps (100s and 1000s, i dont think so, been to one personally myself), laws have been introduced in the last 5 years that have helped the laborers. Its not the governments that are putting these labourers into the camps it the construction companies that are e.g. Dutco and other international contruction companies who want low cost labour to sell off their building.

You talk about workers being fooled to come to Dubai, again thats not the government but agents for the construction companies promising workers from other countries to gain jobs in Dubai, the workers pay back the agents not the construction companies. Here again the UAE have setup process' to ensure that this sort of practice is stamped out. Did you mention that the government force workers to stop working during the summer months, if they dont the companies that employ them will be fined and in some cases shutdown - but to you i suppose they still dont care.

Political freedoms?? The number of expat workers actually outnumber the nationals of the country, there wouldnt be so many of us if there were no freedoms.

There are places in the world whereby what you're saying is true, but in all honesy Dubai is not one of them, they are making huge strides in all directions.

by **Ciggy** » Thu Feb 14, 2008 12:32 pm

puroresu wrote:
Ciggy wrote:puroresu Tom Hicks does the same in China paying Chinese workers 50 cent an hour.

Not saying he didnt. Just making the point the guys from Dubai aint all sweetness and nice. They may be loaded but I would not be surprised if they do buy the club it wont be long before the Human rights orgs start to point out all the social ills in dubai under the reign of these guys.

Thaksin and Abramovich are angels of course :;):

by **Reg** » Thu Feb 14, 2008 12:33 pm

The only concern I have about DIC is the accusation when we were negotiating with them last year that THEY wanted to build the club up then sell after 5 years. I´m not convinced it would be a smooth ride under DIC ownership but there dont seem to be many genuine football fans out there with 500 million to burn does there, so its a case of making the best of a limited choice.

by **Ciggy** » Thu Feb 14, 2008 12:36 pm

Reg wrote:The only concern I have about DIC is the accusation when we were negotiating with them last year that THEY wanted to build the club up then sell after 5 years. I´m not convinced it would be a smooth ride under DIC ownership but there dont seem to be many genuine football fans out there with 500 million to burn does there, so its a case of making the best of a limited choice.

G & H had an exit strategy aswell its normal in business practice.

And DIC's exit strategy was after 7 years, it didnt mean they where going to sell after 7 years though.

And Bose posted that leaked document because he was close to Gillett, easy to get the fans on their side then.

by **puroresu** » Thu Feb 14, 2008 12:50 pm

the_last_don wrote:
puroresu wrote:
the_last_don wrote:
puroresu wrote:
Emerald Red wrote:
kazza wrote:
Emerald Red wrote:
kazza wrote:
NANNY RED wrote:Ano Emerald disgraceful isnt it and yet as i said before if we can find out about his dodgy life by just looking on the net how the hell did Parry and Moores not know this . Thats why Moores has to take alot of the blame here aswell he sold out for A FEW DOLLARS MORE.

Should we not be doing the same research on DIC?

LOL

Are you serious? Some of the richest people on the planet for fact. The guy owns a country ffs and is building islands in the ocean that make up a mini globe. They make Hicks look like he runs a chippy down the road. They are minted. They don't need loans that's for f*cking sure.

I was refering to past business dealings, success/failure etc. and more importantly whether they do what they say. They could have all the money in the world but it will not help us if they are money grubbing w@nkers.

Oil. Nuff said.

And going by the state of Dubai these days, I'd say their success rate in other areas is quiet good.

Building sky scrapers and fancy hotels doesnt mean progress. Immigrant workers treated like 2nd class citizens housed in the worst places and paid less money is not progress. Dubai has done well in the sense it doesnt rely on oil to fund there economy like the other gulf states. Building islands in the ocean that make up a mini globe is nothing but a gimmick. How about making sure all the people are eating and are housed. Also I dont think owning a county and being a glorified dictator is something to be proud of. Its not like the people have a choice on who runs the country.

I think you will find that UAE/Dubai have done a lot for humanity. I will point you to one case of one Sheikh Mohammed Bin Rashid al Maktoum (yeah the guy who own DIC).

Please check the following article on how what he done for a program called 'Dubai Cares':

http://archive.gulfnews.com/indepth....31.html

In short, Sheikh Mohammed arranged a donation scheme for everyone to donate money for children around the world. Approximately 1.17 billion dirhams was raised. On the last day donations were to be put in Sheikh Mohammed turned up and said from his own personal wealth he would double what the community have put in.

There are other scenarios that detail this mans nature, and what you say about Dubai is totally wrong. They have given oppertunity to people who back in their own countries would have no jobs, starving and near death.

Please do some proper research and back it up accordingly.

I aint disputing he will donate money to good causes but he aint no saint. The reason they employ so many migrant workers is cos the there own population do not want to do those jobs. For all the great skyscrapers and hotels built u dont see the labour camps that house hundreds of thousands of migrant workers who build this great buildings. However I guess they should be grateful as its better than being in there country of birth. The fact that public dissent is forbidden its pretty remarkable the workers did some strike action. Some would say the migrants should leave but many of them are fooled into going to Dubai in the 1st place at home. They are promised good jobs with a good salary and are made to pay for there visa. This usually involves taking out a loan. Its only when they get to Duabi and realise all aint what was promised and they gotta stay just to pay the loan back.

The country not signed important conventions of the International Labour Organisation. This is symptom of a tradeoff across the United Arab Emirates: there may be an economic boom, but there are precious few political freedoms. Everyone is encouraged to profit from heady economic growth, but no one is allowed to question the political leadership or the huge economic disparities. There are no elections and no opposition parties. There is no accountability and nobody questions the system because there are no political rights. The elites basically buy the allegiance of their citizens.

Oh and I aint making this up.

I tell you why i can repsond to your comment. I actually live and work in dubai as a non-national. Everything you are saying is basically from the reports you have seen on sites like BBC and Skynews.

Why does no one speak out about the leadership? Because they are doing a damn good job of it thats why.

There are no such things as immigrants, the UAE does not provide citizenship to workers, we termed under expats.

You talk about labour camps (100s and 1000s, i dont think so, been to one personally myself), laws have been introduced in the last 5 years that have helped the laborers. Its not the governments that are putting these labourers into the camps it the construction companies that are e.g. Dutco and other international contruction companies who want low cost labour to sell off their building.

You talk about workers being fooled to come to Dubai, again thats not the government but agents for the construction companies promising workers from other countries to gain jobs in Dubai, the workers pay back the agents not the construction companies. Here again the UAE have setup process' to ensure that this sort of practice is stamped out. Did you mention that the government force workers to stop working during the summer months, if they dont the companies that employ them will be fined and in some cases shutdown - but to you i suppose they still dont care.

Political freedoms?? The number of expat workers actually outnumber the nationals of the country, there wouldnt be so many of us if there were no freedoms.

There are places in the world whereby what you're saying is true, but in all honesy Dubai is not one of them, they are making huge strides in all directions.

So workers didnt strike? So the interviews I see from workers are all fake?

I read lawyers who are silenced and banned from speaking in the press when they are critical of the state but again its not true.

Saying nobody is speaking about the leadership as they are doing a good job is laughable. The point is they dont have a choice. Public dissent is not allowed. Its not like you can set up an office and a newspaper critical of the regime and royal family is it.

Your right it is the agents that convince people to go to Dubai but that is still no excuse for the working conditions is it?

I dont see how so many expat workers means there are political freedoms. All decisions about political leadership rest in the hands of the dynastic rulers of the seven separate emirates of the UAE. These seven leaders select a president and vice president, and the president appoints a prime minister and cabinet. The UAE has a 40-member Federal National Council with delegates appointed by the seven leaders every two years. Citizens have no say in this process.

U are right however that there are far worser places than Dubai.

by **ivor_the_injun** » Thu Feb 14, 2008 12:58 pm

Bottom of article on the Echo site...

"Meanwhile, despite reports in a national newspaper that Liverpool's American owners will sell to DIC by next month, the ECHO understands that although discussions between the parties are ongoing, no deal is certain."

by **the_last_don** » Thu Feb 14, 2008 1:00 pm

The strikes that you are referring to are mainly to do with construction companies not paying their salaries and in some cases not providing accomodation - not to do with the Dubai government but the private companies who hire these people.

Both have already been rectified by changes to laws - salaries must now be paid out electronically, if it doesnt again fines for the company in question and potential closure, and i have already mentioned things about the labour camps.

Regarding political freedoms, yes you cant go around sladnering the leaders, can you in the UK start publicly slandering the Royal Family/ The Queen?

Your second to last paragraph regarding non democracy has now also changed to a more democratic process:

http://archive.gulfnews.com/indepth....16.html

Everything you're throwing at the UAE / Dubai is being countered, why because they are living up to international standards and best practice. The place is now fast becoming an international financil hub, the biggest companies in the world are based here - they for one would not risk their reputation and money in a country that is de-stabalised within no laws to protect people - if they listened to you they wouldnt touch it with a barge pole.

by **Emerald Red** » Thu Feb 14, 2008 1:13 pm

puroresu wrote:
Ciggy wrote:puroresu Tom Hicks does the same in China paying Chinese workers 50 cent an hour.

Not saying he didnt. Just making the point the guys from Dubai aint all sweetness and nice. They may be loaded but I would not be surprised if they do buy the club it wont be long before the Human rights orgs start to point out all the social ills in dubai under the reign of these guys.

Who gives a flying f*ck!

Where there is money to be made in the world, you are to be sure that someone somewhere will be f*cked over. Always. Anyway, people and nations in the middle-east seem to always get a bad flack from these so called human rights activists and turn a blind eye to all the bad sh*t that is happening under their noses in their own countries.

by **LFC2007** » Thu Feb 14, 2008 3:58 pm

puroresu wrote:
Emerald Red wrote:
kazza wrote:
Emerald Red wrote:
kazza wrote:
NANNY RED wrote:Ano Emerald disgraceful isnt it and yet as i said before if we can find out about his dodgy life by just looking on the net how the hell did Parry and Moores not know this . Thats why Moores has to take alot of the blame here aswell he sold out for A FEW DOLLARS MORE.

Should we not be doing the same research on DIC?

LOL

Are you serious? Some of the richest people on the planet for fact. The guy owns a country ffs and is building islands in the ocean that make up a mini globe. They make Hicks look like he runs a chippy down the road. They are minted. They don't need loans that's for f*cking sure.

I was refering to past business dealings, success/failure etc. and more importantly whether they do what they say. They could have all the money in the world but it will not help us if they are money grubbing w@nkers.

Oil. Nuff said.

And going by the state of Dubai these days, I'd say their success rate in other areas is quiet good.

Building sky scrapers and fancy hotels doesnt mean progress. Immigrant workers treated like 2nd class citizens housed in the worst places and paid less money is not progress. Dubai has done well in the sense it doesnt rely on oil to fund there economy like the other gulf states. Building islands in the ocean that make up a mini globe is nothing but a gimmick. How about making sure all the people are eating and are housed. Also I dont think owning a county and being a glorified dictator is something to be proud of. Its not like the people have a choice on who runs the country.

As far as I'm aware, poor working conditions are only really evident on large-scale construction projects, where thousands are drafted in from the sub-continent. The actual conditions of those working within primary businesses owned by Sheikh Mohammed are of a very high standard.

by **nobybob** » Thu Feb 14, 2008 5:54 pm

LFC2007 wrote:
puroresu wrote:
Emerald Red wrote:
kazza wrote:
Emerald Red wrote:
kazza wrote:
NANNY RED wrote:Ano Emerald disgraceful isnt it and yet as i said before if we can find out about his dodgy life by just looking on the net how the hell did Parry and Moores not know this . Thats why Moores has to take alot of the blame here aswell he sold out for A FEW DOLLARS MORE.

Should we not be doing the same research on DIC?

LOL

Are you serious? Some of the richest people on the planet for fact. The guy owns a country ffs and is building islands in the ocean that make up a mini globe. They make Hicks look like he runs a chippy down the road. They are minted. They don't need loans that's for f*cking sure.

I was refering to past business dealings, success/failure etc. and more importantly whether they do what they say. They could have all the money in the world but it will not help us if they are money grubbing w@nkers.

Oil. Nuff said.

And going by the state of Dubai these days, I'd say their success rate in other areas is quiet good.

Building sky scrapers and fancy hotels doesnt mean progress. Immigrant workers treated like 2nd class citizens housed in the worst places and paid less money is not progress. Dubai has done well in the sense it doesnt rely on oil to fund there economy like the other gulf states. Building islands in the ocean that make up a mini globe is nothing but a gimmick. How about making sure all the people are eating and are housed. Also I dont think owning a county and being a glorified dictator is something to be proud of. Its not like the people have a choice on who runs the country.

As far as I'm aware, poor working conditions are only really evident on large-scale construction projects, where thousands are drafted in from the sub-continent. The actual conditions of those working within primary businesses owned by Sheikh Mohammed are of a very high standard.

I'm not interested in the politics human rights act in Dubai , i came on this forum to discuss FOOTBALL. I'm sure many club owners in this and other countries have less than perfect C.V.s as far as ethics is concerned. so please lets talk politics on a political forum and football here.

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