George's father to his son - "Try going into a business where you put smiles on people's faces."
Seems like he didn't take his da's advice.
TAKEOVER COMPLETE - H & G Finally Jibbed!
by redtrader74 » Tue Feb 05, 2008 10:46 am
ruskiy playmaker wrote:redtrader74 wrote:I have never said Rafa is a genius (i think), there are no genius' as football managers, Einstein was a genius, not managers of a group of men who kick a ball around all day.
So that guy in your avatar was not a genius?
No he was a fantastic football manager, and leader.
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redtrader74 - LFC Super Member
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by Ciggy » Tue Feb 05, 2008 11:38 am
Mark Lawrenson: Ownership change may be the only way now for Liverpool FC
Feb 5 2008
IT IS a year since the arrival of Tom Hicks and George Gillett promised to herald the beginning of a new era at Anfield.
The pair came out, as Americans tend to do, with all guns blazing but they certainly said the right things and showed they were aware of the history and traditions of Liverpool FC.
The supporters were left to trust that there were certain assurances in the detail and structure of the takeover deal that would safeguard the future of the club.
Expectations were high over the new stadium and transfer money for Rafael Benitez to build a team capable of challenging for the Premier League title – and the signing of Fernando Torres and a flying start to the league campaign boded well.
But the first cracks started to appear in public after the infamous Benitez Press conference – in which he repeated the mantra that he was concentrating on coaching – and his tracksuited appearance for the Newcastle game that weekend.
At the time it looked merely like the manager had thrown his toys out of the pram, but in hindsight perhaps he was being cuter than we realised in flushing out the behind the scenes problems.
The revelations that the Americans had lined up a potential new manager in Jurgen Klinsmann dealt a potentially fatal blow to the bond that existed between supporters and owners.
Further news that the stadium plans had been scaled back and that a re-financing of the club would see the debt serviced from the Anfield coffers only heightened fears among fans that this was not what they had been expecting when the Americans outlined their vision and hopes for the future.
Twelve months on from that first Press conference and the owners have been the subject to unprecedented protests from the fans and even a suggestion the supporters unite to buy the club themselves. Unworkable though the idea is, it does reflect the depth of feeling among supporters who want to do something to help their beloved club.
The two co-owners reportedly do not see eye to eye over the way things have been handled which leaves further uncertainty, with DIC preparing the ground for another attempt to take over.
In the meantime Liverpool is left in limbo with question marks hanging over the future involvement of just about all the main players – from the owners to the manager.
Supporters worry about the effect on the players as results have waned and it must be impossible for it not to affect Benitez in some way.
Picking his best side as often as possible and allowing players to develop the partnerships that are so important to team play offers the Spaniard a quick remedy.
But when it comes to the takeover, the situation is far less clear. The intricate details of any deal do not really come out at the time and fans were reassured by the fact that Hicks and Gillett had both been involved in building stadia in America and running sporting franchises so they would have a feel for what happens in the world of sport.
But supporters are still waiting for work to begin on the stadium despite suggestions it would be just 60 days after the Americans’ arrival – with the prospect that Everton’s new ground could be done and dusted first.
And the manager is left to spend what he raises in terms of buying players with no bulging transfer kitty to dip into. Benitez is trying to lift the team to the next standard – which they have patently not achieved yet – but that does not make him a bad manager overnight after the successes he has enjoyed.
Liverpool have never been the type of football club to talk about things before they have been signed and sealed, but now fans read stories about things that have yet to happen.
In some ways the club has been left playing catch-up. It has always been well run, but when they were winning things at home and abroad in the 1970s and 80s, perhaps that was the time to develop the club commercially by looking at new markets in places like the Far East and Asia. Instead Manchester United seem to have stolen a march in that area and, indeed, seem to be the role model for success in a number of key areas along with Arsenal.
In many ways the Klinnsman revelation has been the most damaging to the owners. They are already operating thousands of miles way from the club, and were actually talking to another manager while their own team was doing fine.
It was a situation that lacked class, a point picked up on by Sir Alex Ferguson when he spoke out in support of Benitez recently.
Added to the rest of the equation, it means the Americans have lost the majority of the fans – and there seems no way they are going to get that trust back.
The only way forward now seems to be another change of ownership – but at the very heart of any new leadership must be that the best interests of Liverpool FC are of paramount importance.
Mark Lawrenson was talking to RICHARD WILLIAMSON
Feb 5 2008
IT IS a year since the arrival of Tom Hicks and George Gillett promised to herald the beginning of a new era at Anfield.
The pair came out, as Americans tend to do, with all guns blazing but they certainly said the right things and showed they were aware of the history and traditions of Liverpool FC.
The supporters were left to trust that there were certain assurances in the detail and structure of the takeover deal that would safeguard the future of the club.
Expectations were high over the new stadium and transfer money for Rafael Benitez to build a team capable of challenging for the Premier League title – and the signing of Fernando Torres and a flying start to the league campaign boded well.
But the first cracks started to appear in public after the infamous Benitez Press conference – in which he repeated the mantra that he was concentrating on coaching – and his tracksuited appearance for the Newcastle game that weekend.
At the time it looked merely like the manager had thrown his toys out of the pram, but in hindsight perhaps he was being cuter than we realised in flushing out the behind the scenes problems.
The revelations that the Americans had lined up a potential new manager in Jurgen Klinsmann dealt a potentially fatal blow to the bond that existed between supporters and owners.
Further news that the stadium plans had been scaled back and that a re-financing of the club would see the debt serviced from the Anfield coffers only heightened fears among fans that this was not what they had been expecting when the Americans outlined their vision and hopes for the future.
Twelve months on from that first Press conference and the owners have been the subject to unprecedented protests from the fans and even a suggestion the supporters unite to buy the club themselves. Unworkable though the idea is, it does reflect the depth of feeling among supporters who want to do something to help their beloved club.
The two co-owners reportedly do not see eye to eye over the way things have been handled which leaves further uncertainty, with DIC preparing the ground for another attempt to take over.
In the meantime Liverpool is left in limbo with question marks hanging over the future involvement of just about all the main players – from the owners to the manager.
Supporters worry about the effect on the players as results have waned and it must be impossible for it not to affect Benitez in some way.
Picking his best side as often as possible and allowing players to develop the partnerships that are so important to team play offers the Spaniard a quick remedy.
But when it comes to the takeover, the situation is far less clear. The intricate details of any deal do not really come out at the time and fans were reassured by the fact that Hicks and Gillett had both been involved in building stadia in America and running sporting franchises so they would have a feel for what happens in the world of sport.
But supporters are still waiting for work to begin on the stadium despite suggestions it would be just 60 days after the Americans’ arrival – with the prospect that Everton’s new ground could be done and dusted first.
And the manager is left to spend what he raises in terms of buying players with no bulging transfer kitty to dip into. Benitez is trying to lift the team to the next standard – which they have patently not achieved yet – but that does not make him a bad manager overnight after the successes he has enjoyed.
Liverpool have never been the type of football club to talk about things before they have been signed and sealed, but now fans read stories about things that have yet to happen.
In some ways the club has been left playing catch-up. It has always been well run, but when they were winning things at home and abroad in the 1970s and 80s, perhaps that was the time to develop the club commercially by looking at new markets in places like the Far East and Asia. Instead Manchester United seem to have stolen a march in that area and, indeed, seem to be the role model for success in a number of key areas along with Arsenal.
In many ways the Klinnsman revelation has been the most damaging to the owners. They are already operating thousands of miles way from the club, and were actually talking to another manager while their own team was doing fine.
It was a situation that lacked class, a point picked up on by Sir Alex Ferguson when he spoke out in support of Benitez recently.
Added to the rest of the equation, it means the Americans have lost the majority of the fans – and there seems no way they are going to get that trust back.
The only way forward now seems to be another change of ownership – but at the very heart of any new leadership must be that the best interests of Liverpool FC are of paramount importance.
Mark Lawrenson was talking to RICHARD WILLIAMSON
There is no-one anywhere in the world at any stage who is any bigger or any better than this football club.
Kenny Dalglish 1/2/2011
REST IN PEACE PHIL, YOU WILL NEVER BE FORGOTTEN.
Kenny Dalglish 1/2/2011
REST IN PEACE PHIL, YOU WILL NEVER BE FORGOTTEN.
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by Reg » Tue Feb 05, 2008 3:52 pm
Reasonable article that states the obvious. I think the key issue is that the owners have lost the fans and how that is dealt with, either by selling up or commiting an unlikely jumbo transfer pot to allow the side to be rebuilt as first envisaged. Most fans would vote for the former, the opwners would likely try to previde the latter, however where those funds would come from goodness only knows.
The other issue is club management and Foster Gillett´s disappearence. How the fans are supposed to interpret that, g@d only knows - talk about voting with your feet !!.
The other issue is club management and Foster Gillett´s disappearence. How the fans are supposed to interpret that, g@d only knows - talk about voting with your feet !!.
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Reg - >> LFC Elite Member <<
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by maguskwt » Tue Feb 05, 2008 7:16 pm
NANNY RED wrote:redtrader74 wrote:I am surprised at how little stick Moores has recieved for selling up to G&H. Every man and his dog is lining up round the corner to kick in Rafa, who is at least trying his best, even under the circumstances, but Moores' action have actually jeopardised the future of the Club.
IMO there is a very real possibility of us 'doing a Leeds', and Moores allowed this to happen, he could have easily put in conditions in the deal which could have limited the scale of debt, and checked to see if these two actually had any real money. As i understand it our debt to turnover ration is the worst in the premiership, and will only get worse if further debt is added to build the stadium.
I couldnt agree more Red i think Moores is getting off lightly in all this palava, Whats bugging me is if fans can find out about Hicks finacial situation by just seaching the net what does that say about Moores buisiness acumen, Yes i believe he loves the club but i also think he was taken in by the dollar,
How much more did Gillette and Hicks pay on what was agreed with DIC. I said ages ago this could turn into another Leeds fiasco and got slated. Well if these two dont get out as soon as that worry could become a reality.
my point exactly to gbjh who doesn't seem to understand this... moores sold the club with good intentions? he was very negligent at best...most likely he was blinded by the money... basically he screwed up... and we're suffering for it...
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by Pedro Maradona » Tue Feb 05, 2008 8:24 pm
maguskwt wrote:NANNY RED wrote:redtrader74 wrote:I am surprised at how little stick Moores has recieved for selling up to G&H. Every man and his dog is lining up round the corner to kick in Rafa, who is at least trying his best, even under the circumstances, but Moores' action have actually jeopardised the future of the Club.
IMO there is a very real possibility of us 'doing a Leeds', and Moores allowed this to happen, he could have easily put in conditions in the deal which could have limited the scale of debt, and checked to see if these two actually had any real money. As i understand it our debt to turnover ration is the worst in the premiership, and will only get worse if further debt is added to build the stadium.
I couldnt agree more Red i think Moores is getting off lightly in all this palava, Whats bugging me is if fans can find out about Hicks finacial situation by just seaching the net what does that say about Moores buisiness acumen, Yes i believe he loves the club but i also think he was taken in by the dollar,
How much more did Gillette and Hicks pay on what was agreed with DIC. I said ages ago this could turn into another Leeds fiasco and got slated. Well if these two dont get out as soon as that worry could become a reality.
my point exactly to gbjh who doesn't seem to understand this... moores sold the club with good intentions? he was very negligent at best...most likely he was blinded by the money... basically he screwed up... and we're suffering for it...
blinded by total and utter incompetence
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by NANNY RED » Tue Feb 05, 2008 9:54 pm
Dont know whether this belongs in this thread but a mate of mine just sent me it . It was posted by a lad on RAWK ive still got a lump in my throat reading it but for anyone who does not believe in why these two should go this lad sums it up
From a lad on RAWK
Amidst the gloom and despondancy of the last few weeks and the many hours sat here reading every post I stumbled across something on my pc that I wrote to a friend after Istanbul which helped to remind me that when all seems lost, there is always hope.
The world saw what Liverpool are all about last Wednesday - we never give up even when everything seems lost. Walk on with hope in your heart - is what its all about.
I had a very emotional night. I was sat with my 21 year old son and he was devastated at half time. First I had to lift his spirits and I tried to do it by speaking to him (almost threatening him) like I have never done before in my life. I told him to get his
head up, to believe, it wasn't over and we could still do it. Then I went for a and on the way out I shouted at all the people near by "that if you want to win this cup make some noise - its not over" I was going mental.
Where we were sat (literally right next to the Italians) the exit opened up to the Milan end and there I was having a in full colours, in a bog full of Italians. They were so happy they never even noticed me. I even went and stood in the Milan end and took a photograph.
On the way back there were loads of Liverpool lads sat outside the stand and on the stairs in groups with their heads in their hands. I don't know why but I thought I'm not having this so I went around to them all. One by one, telling them the same thing I told my son... to "get your heads up, to have faith, to believe, to keep the faith, all we need is an early goal, we can do it, remember Olympiacos"!!!!! Most of them responded a bit but one group of lads (three of them) told me it was over and to off. I said to them "I'll see you at the end of the game when we've won".
When the first one went in everyone went hysterical, I did because I knew it was on. When the second went in I cried. I was so proud that instead of us getting humiliated 4 or 5 nil that even if we did lose at least we had restored some pride and self respect. I didn't watch the penalty, I was knelt, facing the other way with my head on my seat praying to who ever might have been listening. Please score...please score...please score. It worked !
Immediately behind us were two Milan fans (nice blokes) who had suddenly gone quite. I told them at half time it wasn't over, that they were playing the famous Liverpool Football Club, and we never give up. When we equalised I turned around and looked them at them still with tears in my eyes and they were visibly stunned. I took out of my pocket the last of the Liverpool badges that I had brought to give to the local kids. I placed a badge in each of their hands and said..."remember Liverpool - we never give in".
When the penalty shoot out came I was unusually calm. I never normally watch penalties, I usually run and hide somewhere because I can't handle them. On Wednesday I stood and watched with my arms folded. Completely calm, because I KNEW we were going to win. I didn't celebrate a goal or a miss. I just stood almost impassive while everyone around me went mental. When Dudek saved the last one the place erupted and I sat down, put my head in my hands and sobbed uncontrollably, like a little kid. I was inconsolable, an emotional wreck. Then an amazing thing happened which I will never forget.
All these people, the ones I had spoken to at half time started to come over to me, thanking me and hugging me saying I helped them and gave them hope. One bloke said "mate I will never forget you for the rest of my life". Another guy gave me his match programme, he said he wanted me to have it because I kept his hopes up. Another guy, a big young bloke who was a nervous wreck even from the start and who I'd spoken to three times trying to lift his sprits came over and hugged me and gave me a kiss. It was an emotionally shattering experience and we had won!
The night was unbelievable. We were in bar singing until 5.30 am and by the time I got home and climbed into bed at 3.30 am on Friday morning I'd had 4 hours sleep in 48 hours. My voice had gone, completely, and its only now getting back to near normal. I've been an emotional wreck ever since the second goal went in and I really can't begin to adequately describe what it was like.
My over riding feeling though was I've never in my life been so proud of my roots, my back ground, of being a scouser and of supporting LIVERPOOL FOOTBALL CLUB.
So when all seems lost there is always hope and now the SOS lads have given us that once again.
Thank you.
From a lad on RAWK
Amidst the gloom and despondancy of the last few weeks and the many hours sat here reading every post I stumbled across something on my pc that I wrote to a friend after Istanbul which helped to remind me that when all seems lost, there is always hope.
The world saw what Liverpool are all about last Wednesday - we never give up even when everything seems lost. Walk on with hope in your heart - is what its all about.
I had a very emotional night. I was sat with my 21 year old son and he was devastated at half time. First I had to lift his spirits and I tried to do it by speaking to him (almost threatening him) like I have never done before in my life. I told him to get his
head up, to believe, it wasn't over and we could still do it. Then I went for a and on the way out I shouted at all the people near by "that if you want to win this cup make some noise - its not over" I was going mental.Where we were sat (literally right next to the Italians) the exit opened up to the Milan end and there I was having a
in full colours, in a bog full of Italians. They were so happy they never even noticed me. I even went and stood in the Milan end and took a photograph.On the way back there were loads of Liverpool lads sat outside the stand and on the stairs in groups with their heads in their hands. I don't know why but I thought I'm not having this so I went around to them all. One by one, telling them the same thing I told my son... to "get your heads up, to have faith, to believe, to keep the faith, all we need is an early goal, we can do it, remember Olympiacos"!!!!! Most of them responded a bit but one group of lads (three of them) told me it was over and to
off. I said to them "I'll see you at the end of the game when we've won".When the first one went in everyone went hysterical, I did because I knew it was on. When the second went in I cried. I was so proud that instead of us getting humiliated 4 or 5 nil that even if we did lose at least we had restored some pride and self respect. I didn't watch the penalty, I was knelt, facing the other way with my head on my seat praying to who ever might have been listening. Please score...please score...please score. It worked !
Immediately behind us were two Milan fans (nice blokes) who had suddenly gone quite. I told them at half time it wasn't over, that they were playing the famous Liverpool Football Club, and we never give up. When we equalised I turned around and looked them at them still with tears in my eyes and they were visibly stunned. I took out of my pocket the last of the Liverpool badges that I had brought to give to the local kids. I placed a badge in each of their hands and said..."remember Liverpool - we never give in".
When the penalty shoot out came I was unusually calm. I never normally watch penalties, I usually run and hide somewhere because I can't handle them. On Wednesday I stood and watched with my arms folded. Completely calm, because I KNEW we were going to win. I didn't celebrate a goal or a miss. I just stood almost impassive while everyone around me went mental. When Dudek saved the last one the place erupted and I sat down, put my head in my hands and sobbed uncontrollably, like a little kid. I was inconsolable, an emotional wreck. Then an amazing thing happened which I will never forget.
All these people, the ones I had spoken to at half time started to come over to me, thanking me and hugging me saying I helped them and gave them hope. One bloke said "mate I will never forget you for the rest of my life". Another guy gave me his match programme, he said he wanted me to have it because I kept his hopes up. Another guy, a big young bloke who was a nervous wreck even from the start and who I'd spoken to three times trying to lift his sprits came over and hugged me and gave me a kiss. It was an emotionally shattering experience and we had won!
The night was unbelievable. We were in bar singing until 5.30 am and by the time I got home and climbed into bed at 3.30 am on Friday morning I'd had 4 hours sleep in 48 hours. My voice had gone, completely, and its only now getting back to near normal. I've been an emotional wreck ever since the second goal went in and I really can't begin to adequately describe what it was like.
My over riding feeling though was I've never in my life been so proud of my roots, my back ground, of being a scouser and of supporting LIVERPOOL FOOTBALL CLUB.
So when all seems lost there is always hope and now the SOS lads have given us that once again.
Thank you.
HE WHO BETRAYS WILL ALWAYS WALK ALONE
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NANNY RED - >> LFC Elite Member <<
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by ruskiy playmaker » Tue Feb 05, 2008 10:06 pm
^That is exactly why I chose to support Liverpool. No other supporters in the world have the spirit that Liverpool supporters have!
[img]http://i42.tinypic.com/lkw42.gif[img]
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by NANNY RED » Tue Feb 05, 2008 10:47 pm
See thats what Hicks will never understand our love for the club
(quote)
My over riding feeling though was I've never in my life been so proud of my roots, my back ground, of being a scouser and of supporting LIVERPOOL FOOTBALL CLUB.
So when all seems lost there is always hope and now the SOS lads have given us that once again.
Thank you.
(quote)
My over riding feeling though was I've never in my life been so proud of my roots, my back ground, of being a scouser and of supporting LIVERPOOL FOOTBALL CLUB.
So when all seems lost there is always hope and now the SOS lads have given us that once again.
Thank you.
HE WHO BETRAYS WILL ALWAYS WALK ALONE
-
NANNY RED - >> LFC Elite Member <<
- Posts: 13334
- Joined: Sun May 13, 2007 12:45 pm
by god_bless_john_houlding » Wed Feb 06, 2008 1:41 am
Speaking as a fan who was fortunate to make Istanbul, and one of the lucky ones who got back to Liverpool for the homecoming, I was shattered trust me, but every word that fan was saying was true. I didn't lose hope, even at three down, but it was difficult to watch. Sat there at half time, I didn't move during the interval. Motionless, because I was so disappointed at what OUR club had produced in the biggest game of so many of the careers. I was hurting just like every other fan watching that game. Watching my worst nightmare unfold before me eyes. But not only for me, but me 15 year old son who hadn't whitnessed a European Cup success. Then Stevie's goal, well the fans went crazy, everyone realised that the impossible is possible when you have players like him out there.
Smicer's 2nd and again the crowd was crazy. Now everyone in the stadium realised it was on. Strangers hugging each other, like the other fella said. The players feeling the passion of the fans. The Milan players and fans now sh!tting themselves. And then the penalty. Well unlike the other fella I did watch. And my heart sunk, because Xabi missed. But fortunately me heart was back when the rebound went in. Everyone in the stadium knew at that moment we were going to win it. The Milan fans went quiet because they were stunned. Our fans went crazy, singing and cheering.
Shevchenko's miss during extra time. Every Liverpool fan thought that's it, our dream is over, but somehow Dudek saved it and again it just confirmed it was meant to be. It was our game, our year, our dream.
Penalties and again unlike the other fella I did cheer every miss for them and every goal for us. Then another miss by Shevchenko and the place errupted. Everybody realised just what an achievment this was. I burst into tears, and I don't mind admitting it. It meant the world to me, because we'd gone so long without success of this magnitude. The UEFA was brilliant to win in 01, and it showed the world we were back, but the 25th of May of 2005 proved we were once again the finest side around. Fans and players alike shared the memories and the joys of that night, it can never be taken away from anyone of us. It was one of the greatest nights of my life. One I will never forget, even to this day, I can still recall every second of the match.
Like Nanny said, the yanks don't understand this, they don't realise how important football is to the fans of Liverpool Football Club. Not just the scousers, but those from all 4 corners of the globe. Every Liverpool fan, breathes Liverpool. Once you adopt the colour of Liverpool Football Club, you don't change, and no matter how hard times are you don't ever find yourself being ashamed to support us. If you do, then you're not a fan we need. Yanks Out!!!!
Smicer's 2nd and again the crowd was crazy. Now everyone in the stadium realised it was on. Strangers hugging each other, like the other fella said. The players feeling the passion of the fans. The Milan players and fans now sh!tting themselves. And then the penalty. Well unlike the other fella I did watch. And my heart sunk, because Xabi missed. But fortunately me heart was back when the rebound went in. Everyone in the stadium knew at that moment we were going to win it. The Milan fans went quiet because they were stunned. Our fans went crazy, singing and cheering.
Shevchenko's miss during extra time. Every Liverpool fan thought that's it, our dream is over, but somehow Dudek saved it and again it just confirmed it was meant to be. It was our game, our year, our dream.
Penalties and again unlike the other fella I did cheer every miss for them and every goal for us. Then another miss by Shevchenko and the place errupted. Everybody realised just what an achievment this was. I burst into tears, and I don't mind admitting it. It meant the world to me, because we'd gone so long without success of this magnitude. The UEFA was brilliant to win in 01, and it showed the world we were back, but the 25th of May of 2005 proved we were once again the finest side around. Fans and players alike shared the memories and the joys of that night, it can never be taken away from anyone of us. It was one of the greatest nights of my life. One I will never forget, even to this day, I can still recall every second of the match.
Like Nanny said, the yanks don't understand this, they don't realise how important football is to the fans of Liverpool Football Club. Not just the scousers, but those from all 4 corners of the globe. Every Liverpool fan, breathes Liverpool. Once you adopt the colour of Liverpool Football Club, you don't change, and no matter how hard times are you don't ever find yourself being ashamed to support us. If you do, then you're not a fan we need. Yanks Out!!!!
1) You'll Never Walk Alone
2) pass and move is the Liverpool groove
3) FIRST WILL ALWAYS BE FIRST AND SECOND WILL ALWAYS BE NOTHING.
4) If Torres has scored 60 league goals for Liverpool by the start of the 2011/12 season, I'll say he's better than Owen.
2) pass and move is the Liverpool groove
3) FIRST WILL ALWAYS BE FIRST AND SECOND WILL ALWAYS BE NOTHING.
4) If Torres has scored 60 league goals for Liverpool by the start of the 2011/12 season, I'll say he's better than Owen.
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god_bless_john_houlding - Posts: 2694
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by Ciggy » Wed Feb 06, 2008 8:49 am
More bad publicity for Hinge & Bracket this time from Forbes even though the artcile is a bit wrong 
U.S. Tycoons Fan Liverpool Soccer Flames
Vidya Ram, 02.04.08, 5:30 PM ET
From Forbes.com
LONDON -
When U.S. investors George Gillett and Tom Hicks took over England's Liverpool soccer team last year, they knew they were inheriting a squad with some of the game's most gifted players in the home town of the Beatles and a brand name nearly as world-famous as that of Manchester United. What they didn’t count on, however, is the hostility of its diehard fans, who might be willing to pay them to get lost.
A group called Share Liverpool FC launched plans for a £500 million ($994.9 million) plan to buy the team from Gillett and Hicks and build a new stadium, on Thursday. The specific details have not yet been revealed but it is understood that 100,000 supporters will be asked to invest £5,000 ($9,949) a piece. One possible flaw: the price is not far higher than the £470 million ($925 million) the American tycoons are thought to have paid.
So far, there has been no official comment from Liverpool Football Club regarding the plans. A spokesman for the team told Forbes.com that Share Liverpool had not yet made an approach.
Hostility to the club's new owners, which has been brewing since last year, reached new heights this month after they signed a £350 million ($696.6 million) re-inancing plan that will encumber the team with £30 million ($59.7 million) in debt. Fans fear that ultimately the price for repaying the debt will be borne by them, pointing to Manchester United, owned by American billionaire Malcolm Glazer, which has seen a 50.0% rise in season ticket prices.
The Liverpool supporters' plan is the brain child of Rogan Taylor, a lecturer at the Football Industry Group at Liverpool University. "The time is right to offer a different solution to the rising concerns that football fans have about the patterns of ownership developing at our major football clubs," he told the BBC on Thursday.
Unlike the case on the Continent, where many of the top teams including Real Madrid and Barcelona are owned by fans, only 12 English clubs and one in Scotland follow that pattern of ownership. (See: " Another Russian Tycoon May Be Seeking Kicks In U.K.")
Many of England's leading teams have been snapped up by foreign billionaires, eager to get their hands on the cash cows, as advertising revenues have soared, not to mention the prestige and international media headlines that ownership brings. Russian oil billionaire Roman Abramovich controversially took over Premier - or top - league team Chelsea, while Russian steel billionaire Alisher Usmanov, and Denver sports billionaire E. Stanley Kroenke have build up stakes in Arsenal. Last summer Manchester City was taken over by ousted Thai Prime Minister Thaksin Shinawatra.
While the cash injection has helped clubs rise from virtual obscurity to, in Manchester City's case, fourth position in the Premier League by bringing in top players, they have massively inflated salaries and transfer costs for players, leaving the clubs with huge levels of debt that could jeopardize their futures.
Though shared ownership isn't a miracle cure it can offer something very positive if done the right way, says Kevin Rye, a spokesman for Supporters Direct, which has been advising Share Liverpool FC on its plans. "Fans can deliver consistency. If you ask fans what the most important thing is they will say, yes, we do want it to do well in the short-term, but we don’t want to gamble everything away on a one-season wonder."
Shared ownership also ensures that all the profits of the team are reinvested in it, said Duncan Drasdo, spokesman for the Manchester United Supporters Trust, which has set up the Phoenix Fund to wrest control of the club from Glazer. The trust's approach is less dramatic - it has opted for a more gradual build up, and is currently in talks to secure the backing of some investment banks. He welcomed the move by supporters of the club's arch rivals. "It will certaintly trigger fierce rivalry among fans. Manchester United supporters certaintly won't want Liverpool to steal a march on them."
*****
U.S. Tycoons Fan Liverpool Soccer Flames
Vidya Ram, 02.04.08, 5:30 PM ET
From Forbes.com
LONDON -
When U.S. investors George Gillett and Tom Hicks took over England's Liverpool soccer team last year, they knew they were inheriting a squad with some of the game's most gifted players in the home town of the Beatles and a brand name nearly as world-famous as that of Manchester United. What they didn’t count on, however, is the hostility of its diehard fans, who might be willing to pay them to get lost.
A group called Share Liverpool FC launched plans for a £500 million ($994.9 million) plan to buy the team from Gillett and Hicks and build a new stadium, on Thursday. The specific details have not yet been revealed but it is understood that 100,000 supporters will be asked to invest £5,000 ($9,949) a piece. One possible flaw: the price is not far higher than the £470 million ($925 million) the American tycoons are thought to have paid.
So far, there has been no official comment from Liverpool Football Club regarding the plans. A spokesman for the team told Forbes.com that Share Liverpool had not yet made an approach.
Hostility to the club's new owners, which has been brewing since last year, reached new heights this month after they signed a £350 million ($696.6 million) re-inancing plan that will encumber the team with £30 million ($59.7 million) in debt. Fans fear that ultimately the price for repaying the debt will be borne by them, pointing to Manchester United, owned by American billionaire Malcolm Glazer, which has seen a 50.0% rise in season ticket prices.
The Liverpool supporters' plan is the brain child of Rogan Taylor, a lecturer at the Football Industry Group at Liverpool University. "The time is right to offer a different solution to the rising concerns that football fans have about the patterns of ownership developing at our major football clubs," he told the BBC on Thursday.
Unlike the case on the Continent, where many of the top teams including Real Madrid and Barcelona are owned by fans, only 12 English clubs and one in Scotland follow that pattern of ownership. (See: " Another Russian Tycoon May Be Seeking Kicks In U.K.")
Many of England's leading teams have been snapped up by foreign billionaires, eager to get their hands on the cash cows, as advertising revenues have soared, not to mention the prestige and international media headlines that ownership brings. Russian oil billionaire Roman Abramovich controversially took over Premier - or top - league team Chelsea, while Russian steel billionaire Alisher Usmanov, and Denver sports billionaire E. Stanley Kroenke have build up stakes in Arsenal. Last summer Manchester City was taken over by ousted Thai Prime Minister Thaksin Shinawatra.
While the cash injection has helped clubs rise from virtual obscurity to, in Manchester City's case, fourth position in the Premier League by bringing in top players, they have massively inflated salaries and transfer costs for players, leaving the clubs with huge levels of debt that could jeopardize their futures.
Though shared ownership isn't a miracle cure it can offer something very positive if done the right way, says Kevin Rye, a spokesman for Supporters Direct, which has been advising Share Liverpool FC on its plans. "Fans can deliver consistency. If you ask fans what the most important thing is they will say, yes, we do want it to do well in the short-term, but we don’t want to gamble everything away on a one-season wonder."
Shared ownership also ensures that all the profits of the team are reinvested in it, said Duncan Drasdo, spokesman for the Manchester United Supporters Trust, which has set up the Phoenix Fund to wrest control of the club from Glazer. The trust's approach is less dramatic - it has opted for a more gradual build up, and is currently in talks to secure the backing of some investment banks. He welcomed the move by supporters of the club's arch rivals. "It will certaintly trigger fierce rivalry among fans. Manchester United supporters certaintly won't want Liverpool to steal a march on them."
*****
There is no-one anywhere in the world at any stage who is any bigger or any better than this football club.
Kenny Dalglish 1/2/2011
REST IN PEACE PHIL, YOU WILL NEVER BE FORGOTTEN.
Kenny Dalglish 1/2/2011
REST IN PEACE PHIL, YOU WILL NEVER BE FORGOTTEN.
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Ciggy - >> LFC Elite Member <<
- Posts: 26826
- Joined: Thu Jul 15, 2004 2:36 pm
by account deleted by request » Wed Feb 06, 2008 9:49 am
One year ago today H&G had their offer accepted by Moores and our future looked bright. Like many my reservations were few and my optimism for the future was high. They talked the talk and I bought into it all.
I stopped being a believer and became a sceptical pessimist the day I read that they intended to take out "the loan" and put the debt against the club. This was, is and always will be my major problem with the two clowns.
The lack of transfer funds I can accept as we were going to have a new stadium and sacrifices in the short term are only to be expected. Seeking out a new manager as a contingency plan, while not exactly playing with a straight bat, was forgivable ,announcing it to the world was both stupid and reckless and has no doubt had a bad effect on everyone connected with the club, but could be put down to inexperience with english football.
It all comes back to the loan for me, not only did they lie, but they have put the whole future of our club in danger. That I find unforgivable and the sooner we see the back of this pair the better.
I stopped being a believer and became a sceptical pessimist the day I read that they intended to take out "the loan" and put the debt against the club. This was, is and always will be my major problem with the two clowns.
The lack of transfer funds I can accept as we were going to have a new stadium and sacrifices in the short term are only to be expected. Seeking out a new manager as a contingency plan, while not exactly playing with a straight bat, was forgivable ,announcing it to the world was both stupid and reckless and has no doubt had a bad effect on everyone connected with the club, but could be put down to inexperience with english football.
It all comes back to the loan for me, not only did they lie, but they have put the whole future of our club in danger. That I find unforgivable and the sooner we see the back of this pair the better.
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- Joined: Sun Apr 30, 2006 5:11 am
by Bammo » Wed Feb 06, 2008 11:53 am
Good post Saint.
It's lying about the loan that does it for me too. It would be hypocritical to slate them for approaching another manager considering that's how we got Rafa in the first place. It's sensible business practice to ensure a replacement is available if needed. I don't agree with the choice of manager or announcing it publicly but I do think Hicks did that to end speculation.
As for transfer funds - we have had them. There's been delays over the Masch deal but as far as we know the only player Rafa has wanted that they blocked was Kaka Kaladze. Unfortunately, we all talked ourselves into expecting Utd/Chelsea levels of spending. All we've done is slightly improved.
Don't getme wrong, I may be defending them (well Gillet, I can't stand Hicks) but they've made many mistakes. There were mitigating circumstances around the stadium (steel prices, credit crunch, dollar value) but the fact they've spunked £50m just designing it is ridiculous.
If Hicks stays, Gillet should ban him from speaking in public. He puts his foot in it whenever he does an interview.
I'd like Hicks gone because I don't trust him. He's lied about the loan and speaking to DIC. No matter what he does he'll never win me or many other Liverpool fans back.
As for Gillet, his next interview will be very interesting. He still has the chance to side with the fans. If he does, that could help drive Hicks out.
It's lying about the loan that does it for me too. It would be hypocritical to slate them for approaching another manager considering that's how we got Rafa in the first place. It's sensible business practice to ensure a replacement is available if needed. I don't agree with the choice of manager or announcing it publicly but I do think Hicks did that to end speculation.
As for transfer funds - we have had them. There's been delays over the Masch deal but as far as we know the only player Rafa has wanted that they blocked was Kaka Kaladze. Unfortunately, we all talked ourselves into expecting Utd/Chelsea levels of spending. All we've done is slightly improved.
Don't getme wrong, I may be defending them (well Gillet, I can't stand Hicks) but they've made many mistakes. There were mitigating circumstances around the stadium (steel prices, credit crunch, dollar value) but the fact they've spunked £50m just designing it is ridiculous.
If Hicks stays, Gillet should ban him from speaking in public. He puts his foot in it whenever he does an interview.
I'd like Hicks gone because I don't trust him. He's lied about the loan and speaking to DIC. No matter what he does he'll never win me or many other Liverpool fans back.
As for Gillet, his next interview will be very interesting. He still has the chance to side with the fans. If he does, that could help drive Hicks out.
Twitter[url=http://twitter.com/IanBamford[/URL]Lego Pirates:
[URL=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v....o0]http[/url]
Scallies: http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=SRWxvm_HNQU
[URL=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v....o0]http[/url]
Scallies: http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=SRWxvm_HNQU
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Bammo - LFC Super Member
- Posts: 995
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by account deleted by request » Wed Feb 06, 2008 3:00 pm
Parry: Please try to ignore the mess
Posted on February 6th, 2008 by Jim Boardman
After a spell of statements, interviews and sound-bites in November, all denying the various negative stories related to the club’s owners or their treatment of the club, Liverpool FC chief executive Rick Parry went a little quiet.
One co-owner - George Gillett - disappeared and the other - Tom Hicks - took over the job of spinning the truth, glossing over the facts and in some cases telling what it would be difficult to describe as anything other than lies. When that started to backfire he got a PR company to do his dirty work.
One of the denials issued by Parry related to the relationship between Hicks and Gillett, which had been reported to be far from rosy. The denials went on, although Hicks now admits that they have had disagreements, but rumours persist that Gillett and Hicks are completely at odds with each other. One rumour has Gillett feeling betrayed almost as much as Liverpool fans at how Hicks went back on his promises, but if Gillett is so unhappy then perhaps he ought to own up to that scenario rather than hiding in Colorado, refusing to answer questions on the situation.
Hicks is already taking on more responsibility in the “running”, for want of a better word, of the club, alongside commercial director Ian Ayre. Ayre, Hicks and Hicks’ son Thomas Junior are the three representatives of the club at the next Soccerex event which takes place at Wembley in April. Hicks is interestingly listed as “owner” rather than “co-owner”, but of course it’s easy to read too much into these things. Gillett isn’t listed, nor is his son Foster who was originally intended to be based in England full time.
Whether or not that list of representatives from the club will change by then remains to be seen. Despite DIC’s reported interest in buying out Hicks having gone fairly quiet in terms of press coverage, the interest is believed to be still there and as strong as ever.
Amidst all the off-field turmoil Liverpool have been slipping up on the field. How much of an impact the off-field troubles have had on the on-field situation is impossible to gauge - but to say it’s had no impact would be rather naive. Cue Mr Parry: “It is time to look forward; there can be no question about that. The whole focus for the second half of the season has to be on football and the games we need to win. Everyone must pull together and there has to be a realisation that there is nothing the ownership can contribute to the winning of games.”
Nothing the ownership can contribute? Or nothing the ownership will contribute?
There has just been a transfer window, and in it the club brought one player in and let one player go. LFC actually made a profit in the transfer window, probably for the first time since transfer windows were introduced. After having invested nothing extra in the summer, despite their promises and implied promises, the owners had a chance to contribute. To put more money into the transfer coffers and bring in some new faces who would improve the attacking side of the team.
Being fair to the owners, even though they don’t exactly deserve it, it’s possible to argue that purchases in the January transfer window aren’t usually all that cost-effective and that the best players are already ineligible for Europe.
Rafa also needs - and it’s believed wants - an assistant manager. Pako wasn’t at the club recently for the purposes of discussing a return to his role as Rafa’s right-hand man. But Sammy Lee and Frank McParland are the names that Rafa is said to have asked for. And was said to have been told he couldn’t have. Yet this was another opportunity for the owners to contribute - and having allowed Pako to leave the club before the end of his contract there was even money there already to allow it to happen. But it didn’t.
George Gillett has still not even contributed a word this year. Where’s his backing for the manager, his support for his co-owner, his delight at the latest version of the new stadium plans being put into the public domain, if not on the planning department’s desks?
Rafa Benitez has remained dignified in recent times despite the Klinsmann revelations and the mocking of his anger as “pouting” after his future had been under threat. Some players have admitted that the uncertainty off the field has hit them although others deny it. Yet nobody is willing to deny that morale is at a low level within the squad. And with morale low, confidence is low. Parry has confided, with ex-chairman David Moores, that they made a mistake in allowing the US duo into the club. Rafa will have to sell before he can buy anyone decent, which of course hits morale even more. Yet Parry expects all involved to snap out it: “My message is in the second half of the season there can be no blame and no excuses and that goes for all of us at the club. There is a lot still to play for both in the league and in the two major cup competitions we are still very much in, so let’s just get on with the job in hand.”
Of course Parry’s job is also under threat, and it’s only a matter of time before Hicks is allowed to move him on and bring his own choice in, especially in light of Parry’s attempts to block the refinancing deal Hicks wanted from going through.
One issue many fans have had with recent protests and also Rafa’s hints in public that all was not well is that this just wasn’t the “Liverpool Way”. Unfortunately, the “Liverpool Way” has never been tested under circumstances like this before, meaning that we’ve never had to wash our dirty laundry in public like this before. But perhaps the “Liverpool Way” includes washing laundry in full view of everyone if the laundry is as dirty as it’s been since the owners came in one year ago today. To sit back and let them add more and more dirt without a challenge would not have been the “Liverpool Way”. Could anyone imagine Shanks allowing it to happen without comment?
Parry says the “Liverpool Way” matters and that now is the time to stop discussing the mess: “It is a reflection of the way fans are responding at the moment that the ‘Liverpool Way’ is very important to them. The way the club behaves and conducts itself is probably more important here than it is at any other club so let’s get back to what matters and I’m in no doubt that the Liverpool way still matters.”
Those words were spoken to the Liverpool Echo, but Parry spoke in a similar way in his column in the official LFC magazine: “This is not the Liverpool we all know and love. It has never been our style to wash our dirty linen in public and it is never pleasant for anyone when it happens. The sooner we can put all of this behind us and get back to the Liverpool Way the better.” Perhaps realising that his words could either upset the manager due to being taken as yet another attack from above, or could even upset the paranoid owners, Parry added: “That’s certainly not pointing the finger at anyone. It’s a hard fact of life in football that any negative publicity quickly leads to further headlines and debate.”
Moores and Parry have been attacked for failing to do any homework on the new owners. If they had, they’d have seen Hicks wasn’t suitable ownership material for this club. The owners have been attacked for a long list of valid reasons. Rafa has been attacked by some due to the slump in form. Parry believes that it’s ok for supporters to discuss their own clubs, but not “outsiders”. Parry is perhaps playing on the normal behaviour of supporters over their owns clubs: Brothers and sisters will argue with each other, but defend each other should someone else join in the arguments - and so supporters will criticise their manager - as long as nobody from another club is listening!
Parry wants to see an end to this criticism from outside being allowed to grow, he wants Reds fans to go back to how they’d be over defending one underperforming player if criticised by some other club’s fans. “What really frustrates me is when outsiders start having a go. When this happens you know instinctively it’s time to unite, draw some strength from our togetherness and get back on the rails.” But these issues are bigger than an underperforming player. The fans are uniting, and perhaps more than they’ve done in countless years - uniting against the owners, against the lies and deceit.
As if wanting the protests to stop - like the 15-minute-plus noisy sit-in after the Sunderland game - Parry puts a message out that somehow it’s wrong for fans to voice their deep concerns about the owners, wrong for the fans to embark on a journey towards ridding the club of the parasites that pretending to be something else a year ago. He claims: “We can argue amongst ourselves, but we can’t change the club in the process.” That’s wrong Mr Parry. The supporters didn’t protest lightly, and one way or another they will at the very least make the owners reconsider their futures as owners of this club. The press coverage in the US has been fairly weak so far, but it’s building. Boycotts will spread to more than just programmes and club shops. The supporters mean business.
To be fair to Parry, his actions may have resulted in us being in this mess, and his past inactions may have seen us come close to losing Steven Gerrard and missing out on countless transfer targets, but he has been trying hard to protect the club from the Hicks steamroller. He made a lot of money when the takeover went through, but can’t be enjoying his job these days, a job in which he finds he’s not got the trust of anyone above or below him. “I’m a fan like you,” he says. “Always have been and always will be. I know how much our history and tradition means to you. We all want to be focusing on winning things. Instead, we have been embroiled in rows about other things. Yet everyone has the same basic aim which is to make our club the best in the world. To that end, I’m pleased that we have taken an important step along the new stadium path.”
Good point - the new stadium. The whole reason we got sold off. We needed a new stadium so that our match income would be similar to our rivals’ match income, so that in the future we’d be able to invest in our squads the same way they could. The new stadium was supposed to open in summer 2006, but delay after delay and a lack of success in finding investment for so long now sees the opening date - so far - as 2011. Not only that, the price has rocketed from £80m to something like £300m - and that’s really still nothing more than an estimate. At £80m it was felt the new stadium wouldn’t have a negative effect on squad building, and that stadium would have seated 60,000 people. A proposal to build a 70,000-seater was abandoned because it would have cost an extra £50m.
The new stadium plans are still special, still unique, but it seems that’s more by luck than anything else. The plans shown in July were found to be out of reach financially and so both firms of architects were asked to come up with new plans at a lower budget. This shows that there was little confidence in producing plans of similar quality at a 75% lower price. Parry himself referred to them as “downgraded”, before Hicks ordered at least the official site’s version of his statement to read “different”. Yet now Parry talks as if all this was a minor blip: “Clearly, the revised design is very similar to the one unveiled in the summer, plans that excited every one of us. They are almost identical to the naked eye. When we said we were revising things, perhaps there was a bit of consternation that we were somehow going back to the drawing board to make dramatic alterations. In fact, it was a case of looking at some costs to see if we could make them more efficient.”
So why involve two firms of architects, one of whom produced plans completely different to the July ones? Parry glosses over this: “Could we look at some aspects of the build to make it work better without losing the impact of the design that had made it so special? That is exactly what has happened and our plans remain on course.” Lucky, and how much did this cost?
Liverpool still wait for planning permission to be granted, and with the increased capacity there’s nothing whatsoever to suggest it will be granted. It’s already set to be five years late: “We plan to be ready for the summer of 2011. Work will commence this year. Obviously that will be an extremely positive and welcome step for everybody.” And again, perhaps protesting a little too much, Parry tried to play down the concerns that came from fans when the club finally admitted they were downgrading the plans. Parry tried to deny it initially, admitting it two days later, and seems surprised that uncertainty ensued: “The review clearly created a bit of uncertainty as to whether it was going to happen. The answer is: ‘Yes it will.’ We all know how crucial the new build is to the ongoing progress of the club.”
That’s not quite the case now though. Fans have started to question whether a new stadium really is crucial. Fans have begun to ask whether a rebuilding of Anfield might have been the better option after all. Fans are wondering if the increase in capacity - which remember doesn’t mean a guaranteed attendance increase at the same level - is going to cover the costs of the finance to build it, by the time interest has been paid and the owners have taken their chunk.
Words are easy, as Mr Hicks constantly claims - but we need to see some action.
And by the way Mr Parry, Mr Hicks - how about a statement on why the Gillett family have lost interest in the club?
Posted on February 6th, 2008 by Jim Boardman
After a spell of statements, interviews and sound-bites in November, all denying the various negative stories related to the club’s owners or their treatment of the club, Liverpool FC chief executive Rick Parry went a little quiet.
One co-owner - George Gillett - disappeared and the other - Tom Hicks - took over the job of spinning the truth, glossing over the facts and in some cases telling what it would be difficult to describe as anything other than lies. When that started to backfire he got a PR company to do his dirty work.
One of the denials issued by Parry related to the relationship between Hicks and Gillett, which had been reported to be far from rosy. The denials went on, although Hicks now admits that they have had disagreements, but rumours persist that Gillett and Hicks are completely at odds with each other. One rumour has Gillett feeling betrayed almost as much as Liverpool fans at how Hicks went back on his promises, but if Gillett is so unhappy then perhaps he ought to own up to that scenario rather than hiding in Colorado, refusing to answer questions on the situation.
Hicks is already taking on more responsibility in the “running”, for want of a better word, of the club, alongside commercial director Ian Ayre. Ayre, Hicks and Hicks’ son Thomas Junior are the three representatives of the club at the next Soccerex event which takes place at Wembley in April. Hicks is interestingly listed as “owner” rather than “co-owner”, but of course it’s easy to read too much into these things. Gillett isn’t listed, nor is his son Foster who was originally intended to be based in England full time.
Whether or not that list of representatives from the club will change by then remains to be seen. Despite DIC’s reported interest in buying out Hicks having gone fairly quiet in terms of press coverage, the interest is believed to be still there and as strong as ever.
Amidst all the off-field turmoil Liverpool have been slipping up on the field. How much of an impact the off-field troubles have had on the on-field situation is impossible to gauge - but to say it’s had no impact would be rather naive. Cue Mr Parry: “It is time to look forward; there can be no question about that. The whole focus for the second half of the season has to be on football and the games we need to win. Everyone must pull together and there has to be a realisation that there is nothing the ownership can contribute to the winning of games.”
Nothing the ownership can contribute? Or nothing the ownership will contribute?
There has just been a transfer window, and in it the club brought one player in and let one player go. LFC actually made a profit in the transfer window, probably for the first time since transfer windows were introduced. After having invested nothing extra in the summer, despite their promises and implied promises, the owners had a chance to contribute. To put more money into the transfer coffers and bring in some new faces who would improve the attacking side of the team.
Being fair to the owners, even though they don’t exactly deserve it, it’s possible to argue that purchases in the January transfer window aren’t usually all that cost-effective and that the best players are already ineligible for Europe.
Rafa also needs - and it’s believed wants - an assistant manager. Pako wasn’t at the club recently for the purposes of discussing a return to his role as Rafa’s right-hand man. But Sammy Lee and Frank McParland are the names that Rafa is said to have asked for. And was said to have been told he couldn’t have. Yet this was another opportunity for the owners to contribute - and having allowed Pako to leave the club before the end of his contract there was even money there already to allow it to happen. But it didn’t.
George Gillett has still not even contributed a word this year. Where’s his backing for the manager, his support for his co-owner, his delight at the latest version of the new stadium plans being put into the public domain, if not on the planning department’s desks?
Rafa Benitez has remained dignified in recent times despite the Klinsmann revelations and the mocking of his anger as “pouting” after his future had been under threat. Some players have admitted that the uncertainty off the field has hit them although others deny it. Yet nobody is willing to deny that morale is at a low level within the squad. And with morale low, confidence is low. Parry has confided, with ex-chairman David Moores, that they made a mistake in allowing the US duo into the club. Rafa will have to sell before he can buy anyone decent, which of course hits morale even more. Yet Parry expects all involved to snap out it: “My message is in the second half of the season there can be no blame and no excuses and that goes for all of us at the club. There is a lot still to play for both in the league and in the two major cup competitions we are still very much in, so let’s just get on with the job in hand.”
Of course Parry’s job is also under threat, and it’s only a matter of time before Hicks is allowed to move him on and bring his own choice in, especially in light of Parry’s attempts to block the refinancing deal Hicks wanted from going through.
One issue many fans have had with recent protests and also Rafa’s hints in public that all was not well is that this just wasn’t the “Liverpool Way”. Unfortunately, the “Liverpool Way” has never been tested under circumstances like this before, meaning that we’ve never had to wash our dirty laundry in public like this before. But perhaps the “Liverpool Way” includes washing laundry in full view of everyone if the laundry is as dirty as it’s been since the owners came in one year ago today. To sit back and let them add more and more dirt without a challenge would not have been the “Liverpool Way”. Could anyone imagine Shanks allowing it to happen without comment?
Parry says the “Liverpool Way” matters and that now is the time to stop discussing the mess: “It is a reflection of the way fans are responding at the moment that the ‘Liverpool Way’ is very important to them. The way the club behaves and conducts itself is probably more important here than it is at any other club so let’s get back to what matters and I’m in no doubt that the Liverpool way still matters.”
Those words were spoken to the Liverpool Echo, but Parry spoke in a similar way in his column in the official LFC magazine: “This is not the Liverpool we all know and love. It has never been our style to wash our dirty linen in public and it is never pleasant for anyone when it happens. The sooner we can put all of this behind us and get back to the Liverpool Way the better.” Perhaps realising that his words could either upset the manager due to being taken as yet another attack from above, or could even upset the paranoid owners, Parry added: “That’s certainly not pointing the finger at anyone. It’s a hard fact of life in football that any negative publicity quickly leads to further headlines and debate.”
Moores and Parry have been attacked for failing to do any homework on the new owners. If they had, they’d have seen Hicks wasn’t suitable ownership material for this club. The owners have been attacked for a long list of valid reasons. Rafa has been attacked by some due to the slump in form. Parry believes that it’s ok for supporters to discuss their own clubs, but not “outsiders”. Parry is perhaps playing on the normal behaviour of supporters over their owns clubs: Brothers and sisters will argue with each other, but defend each other should someone else join in the arguments - and so supporters will criticise their manager - as long as nobody from another club is listening!
Parry wants to see an end to this criticism from outside being allowed to grow, he wants Reds fans to go back to how they’d be over defending one underperforming player if criticised by some other club’s fans. “What really frustrates me is when outsiders start having a go. When this happens you know instinctively it’s time to unite, draw some strength from our togetherness and get back on the rails.” But these issues are bigger than an underperforming player. The fans are uniting, and perhaps more than they’ve done in countless years - uniting against the owners, against the lies and deceit.
As if wanting the protests to stop - like the 15-minute-plus noisy sit-in after the Sunderland game - Parry puts a message out that somehow it’s wrong for fans to voice their deep concerns about the owners, wrong for the fans to embark on a journey towards ridding the club of the parasites that pretending to be something else a year ago. He claims: “We can argue amongst ourselves, but we can’t change the club in the process.” That’s wrong Mr Parry. The supporters didn’t protest lightly, and one way or another they will at the very least make the owners reconsider their futures as owners of this club. The press coverage in the US has been fairly weak so far, but it’s building. Boycotts will spread to more than just programmes and club shops. The supporters mean business.
To be fair to Parry, his actions may have resulted in us being in this mess, and his past inactions may have seen us come close to losing Steven Gerrard and missing out on countless transfer targets, but he has been trying hard to protect the club from the Hicks steamroller. He made a lot of money when the takeover went through, but can’t be enjoying his job these days, a job in which he finds he’s not got the trust of anyone above or below him. “I’m a fan like you,” he says. “Always have been and always will be. I know how much our history and tradition means to you. We all want to be focusing on winning things. Instead, we have been embroiled in rows about other things. Yet everyone has the same basic aim which is to make our club the best in the world. To that end, I’m pleased that we have taken an important step along the new stadium path.”
Good point - the new stadium. The whole reason we got sold off. We needed a new stadium so that our match income would be similar to our rivals’ match income, so that in the future we’d be able to invest in our squads the same way they could. The new stadium was supposed to open in summer 2006, but delay after delay and a lack of success in finding investment for so long now sees the opening date - so far - as 2011. Not only that, the price has rocketed from £80m to something like £300m - and that’s really still nothing more than an estimate. At £80m it was felt the new stadium wouldn’t have a negative effect on squad building, and that stadium would have seated 60,000 people. A proposal to build a 70,000-seater was abandoned because it would have cost an extra £50m.
The new stadium plans are still special, still unique, but it seems that’s more by luck than anything else. The plans shown in July were found to be out of reach financially and so both firms of architects were asked to come up with new plans at a lower budget. This shows that there was little confidence in producing plans of similar quality at a 75% lower price. Parry himself referred to them as “downgraded”, before Hicks ordered at least the official site’s version of his statement to read “different”. Yet now Parry talks as if all this was a minor blip: “Clearly, the revised design is very similar to the one unveiled in the summer, plans that excited every one of us. They are almost identical to the naked eye. When we said we were revising things, perhaps there was a bit of consternation that we were somehow going back to the drawing board to make dramatic alterations. In fact, it was a case of looking at some costs to see if we could make them more efficient.”
So why involve two firms of architects, one of whom produced plans completely different to the July ones? Parry glosses over this: “Could we look at some aspects of the build to make it work better without losing the impact of the design that had made it so special? That is exactly what has happened and our plans remain on course.” Lucky, and how much did this cost?
Liverpool still wait for planning permission to be granted, and with the increased capacity there’s nothing whatsoever to suggest it will be granted. It’s already set to be five years late: “We plan to be ready for the summer of 2011. Work will commence this year. Obviously that will be an extremely positive and welcome step for everybody.” And again, perhaps protesting a little too much, Parry tried to play down the concerns that came from fans when the club finally admitted they were downgrading the plans. Parry tried to deny it initially, admitting it two days later, and seems surprised that uncertainty ensued: “The review clearly created a bit of uncertainty as to whether it was going to happen. The answer is: ‘Yes it will.’ We all know how crucial the new build is to the ongoing progress of the club.”
That’s not quite the case now though. Fans have started to question whether a new stadium really is crucial. Fans have begun to ask whether a rebuilding of Anfield might have been the better option after all. Fans are wondering if the increase in capacity - which remember doesn’t mean a guaranteed attendance increase at the same level - is going to cover the costs of the finance to build it, by the time interest has been paid and the owners have taken their chunk.
Words are easy, as Mr Hicks constantly claims - but we need to see some action.
And by the way Mr Parry, Mr Hicks - how about a statement on why the Gillett family have lost interest in the club?
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by account deleted by request » Wed Feb 06, 2008 3:06 pm
VIDEO AND QUOTES: Gillet and Hicks, promises and reality
Feb 6 2008 By Dave Higgerson
We have purchased the club with no debt on the club," George Gillett, Feb 6, 2007.
"We are going to build the finest team for the finest stadium in the Premier League and that is Liverpool," Tom Hicks, Feb 6, 2007.
"The shovel needs to be in the ground in the next 60 days," George Gillett, Feb 6, 2007.
"It's all about the fans and the winning tradition," George Gillett, Feb 7, 2007.
"I won't be a visible owner. You'll see me in the stand yes, but probably not so much in the directors' box as out in front meeting people and thanking them for their support," George Gillett, Feb 7, 2007.
"I'm not a person who goes and hides," George Gillett, Feb 7, 2007.
"Our job is to be custodians of this franchise, not the owners of this franchise," George Gillett, Feb 7, 2007.
"There's no way either of my two teams' fans have the level of intense passion that Liverpool has," Tom Hicks, May 26.
"We want to be regularly competing for the Premiership and the Champions League.
"The fans are smart. The fans can sense that George and I want exactly what they want," Tom Hicks, May 26.
"It is really time for Rafa to quit talking about new players and to coach the players we have," Tom Hicks, Nov 23, 2007.
"It's been a big misunderstanding blown very much out of proportion. George and I are happy to see that it has settled back down," Tom Hicks gives Rafa Benitez his backing, Dec 1, 2007.
"George and I have never been closer. We both were very disappointed and confused as to where that inaccurate information came from," Hicks dismisses rumours of a split, Dec 1, 2007.
"We attempted to negotiate an option as an insurance policy to have him (Klinsmann) become manager if Rafael left for Real Madrid or other clubs that were rumoured in the press," Tom Hicks, January 13, 2008.
"I will still be an owner of Liverpool Football Club in five years," Tom Hicks, Jan 27, 2008.
"Rafa's going to be our manager. He's got a contract here for two more years and hopefully he'll stay for longer.
"As far as I'm concerned Rafa Benitez will be here for at least the length of his contract," Tom Hicks, Jan 27, 2008.
video of the Hicks and Gillett press conference one year ago today
Gillett & Hicks, one year on: from hope to despair
Feb 6 2008 by Tony Barrett, Liverpool Echo
TODAY marks the first anniversary of the takeover of Liverpool FC by George Gillett and Tom Hicks.. TONY BARRETT examines the impact the American duo have had on the club over the past 12 months.
LIVERPOOL have played 36 league games since the takeover, winning 16, drawing 13 and losing seven.
A total of 61 points from those games is put into sharp perspective by the fact that current Premiership leaders Arsenal have garnered 60 points from just 25 games so far this season.
Qualification for this season's Champions League was secured when the Reds finished third in last season's Premiership.
They have a battle on their hands to repeat that this year with Everton, Man City and Aston Villa all involved in a four-way battle for fourth place.
This season has been a disappointment in the Premiership, with the long- awaited title challenge having failed to materialise.
Liverpool made it to last season's Champions League final, knocking out Barcelona, PSV Eindhoven and Chelsea following the arrival of Hicks and Gillett, only to lose to AC Milan in the final.
They are still involved in this season's competition with a last 16 tie against Inter Milan on the horizon.
TRANSFERS
Fernando Torres, Ryan Babel, Martin Skrtel, Lucas Leiva, Yossi Benayoun, Sebastian Leto, Andriy Voronin and Charles Itandje have all been brought in at an estimated cost of £50m.
Momo Sissoko, Djibril Cisse, Craig Bellamy, Luis Garcia, Mark Gonzalez, Jerzy Dudek and Robbie Fowler have all been sold or released with an estimated £31m being brought into the club.
There is also a deal near completion for Javier Mascherano, who would cost £18.6m.
THE STADIUM
One of the first pledges Hicks and Gillett made upon taking over the club was to have a spade go into Stanley Park within 60 days.
A total of 365 days have now passed and Stanley Park remains almost untouched.
Hicks and Gillett have revised the stadium plans they inherited twice during the past 12 months.
Their first effort had to be scaled down because costs threatened to spiral out of control.
The latest design, by Dallas-based HKS, has a 71,000 capacity, is due to be built for the start of the 2011/12 season and will cost around £300m to complete.
FINANCES
When Hicks and Gillett bought Liverpool FC they used loans rather than cash from their own personal fortunes to do so.
They paid £5,000 a share, a total outlay of £174.1m. They also borrowed another £11m to pay banks and advisers for doing the deal and a further £44.8m to absorb the club's debt at that stage. On top of this, another £70m was added to the loan for the stadium project and running costs.
At that stage, even though they had not spent a single cent from their own pockets, Hicks and Gillett told fans they would not "do a Glazer" by loading the club with debt.
Twelve months on and a huge refinancing deal later, such pledges ring incredibly hollow.
Financial restructuring was concluded last month when a £350m loan was taken out with the Royal Bank of Scotland and Wachovia. £105m of that was immediately loaded onto the club's books with the remaining £245m being taken on by Kop Holdings, the holding company set up by Hicks and Gillett when they bought the club last February.
In a recent statement, Hicks' spokesman admitted that the club will have to service the interest payments on both sections of the debt to the tune of around £30m a year.
THE CLUB'S REPUTATION
Alongside finances, the biggest area of concern since takeover.
Three major demonstrations by fans at a club which had previously had none tells its own sorry story.
From being a club which was renowned for keeping problems in-house, Liverpool have become a club where dirty linen is washed in public on an almost daily basis.
From Rafa Benitez's now infamous "I'm concentrating on coaching and training my players" press conference to Hicks' admission to the ECHO that Jurgen Klinsmann had been lined up as a successor to the Spaniard, the Americans’ PR has been a disaster zone.
Add in on-going speculation about the club's ownership and the last 12 months have been among the most difficult in Liverpool's history.
Damage has been done and unless there is a return to the principles of the much fabled "Liverpool Way" it will continue to be done.
RELATIONSHIPS
In simple terms, the relationship between Tom Hicks and George Gillett has all but broken down.
Marry at haste, repent at leisure seems to be the story of their partnership.
A marriage of convenience to see off DIC at the 11th hour has certainly not resulted in a tale of happy ever after.
Rumours of serious divisions between the pair have been circulating for some time and appeared to be confirmed when a statement was released to confirm the conclusion of refinancing, but it carried only Hicks' name. Gillett's was conspicuous by its absence.
Hicks has tried to build bridges with Benitez following his admission that he spoke to Klinsmann about replacing him and recently backed the Spaniard to continue as manager for the length of his current contract, a little over two more years.
Significantly, Gillett kept his counsel.
THE FUTURE
Dubai International Capital retain a very strong interest in buying Liverpool, an interest which did not wane whatsoever despite Hicks and Gillett concluding their refinancing deal.
The investment arm of the Dubai government may have missed out on getting their hands on the club last year, but they haven't gone away and the ECHO understands senior DIC executives have been in dialogue with Hicks and Gillett for several weeks with a view to doing a deal.
They are ready to test the American duo's determination to hold onto the club but only at a price that suits them – in their eyes, paying over the odds is not an option.
Significantly, Sheikh Mohammed al-Maktoum, whom the ECHO can reveal was a boyhood Liverpool fan, has now taken a personal interest in making the deal happen.
Feb 6 2008 By Dave Higgerson
We have purchased the club with no debt on the club," George Gillett, Feb 6, 2007.
"We are going to build the finest team for the finest stadium in the Premier League and that is Liverpool," Tom Hicks, Feb 6, 2007.
"The shovel needs to be in the ground in the next 60 days," George Gillett, Feb 6, 2007.
"It's all about the fans and the winning tradition," George Gillett, Feb 7, 2007.
"I won't be a visible owner. You'll see me in the stand yes, but probably not so much in the directors' box as out in front meeting people and thanking them for their support," George Gillett, Feb 7, 2007.
"I'm not a person who goes and hides," George Gillett, Feb 7, 2007.
"Our job is to be custodians of this franchise, not the owners of this franchise," George Gillett, Feb 7, 2007.
"There's no way either of my two teams' fans have the level of intense passion that Liverpool has," Tom Hicks, May 26.
"We want to be regularly competing for the Premiership and the Champions League.
"The fans are smart. The fans can sense that George and I want exactly what they want," Tom Hicks, May 26.
"It is really time for Rafa to quit talking about new players and to coach the players we have," Tom Hicks, Nov 23, 2007.
"It's been a big misunderstanding blown very much out of proportion. George and I are happy to see that it has settled back down," Tom Hicks gives Rafa Benitez his backing, Dec 1, 2007.
"George and I have never been closer. We both were very disappointed and confused as to where that inaccurate information came from," Hicks dismisses rumours of a split, Dec 1, 2007.
"We attempted to negotiate an option as an insurance policy to have him (Klinsmann) become manager if Rafael left for Real Madrid or other clubs that were rumoured in the press," Tom Hicks, January 13, 2008.
"I will still be an owner of Liverpool Football Club in five years," Tom Hicks, Jan 27, 2008.
"Rafa's going to be our manager. He's got a contract here for two more years and hopefully he'll stay for longer.
"As far as I'm concerned Rafa Benitez will be here for at least the length of his contract," Tom Hicks, Jan 27, 2008.
video of the Hicks and Gillett press conference one year ago today
Gillett & Hicks, one year on: from hope to despair
Feb 6 2008 by Tony Barrett, Liverpool Echo
TODAY marks the first anniversary of the takeover of Liverpool FC by George Gillett and Tom Hicks.. TONY BARRETT examines the impact the American duo have had on the club over the past 12 months.
LIVERPOOL have played 36 league games since the takeover, winning 16, drawing 13 and losing seven.
A total of 61 points from those games is put into sharp perspective by the fact that current Premiership leaders Arsenal have garnered 60 points from just 25 games so far this season.
Qualification for this season's Champions League was secured when the Reds finished third in last season's Premiership.
They have a battle on their hands to repeat that this year with Everton, Man City and Aston Villa all involved in a four-way battle for fourth place.
This season has been a disappointment in the Premiership, with the long- awaited title challenge having failed to materialise.
Liverpool made it to last season's Champions League final, knocking out Barcelona, PSV Eindhoven and Chelsea following the arrival of Hicks and Gillett, only to lose to AC Milan in the final.
They are still involved in this season's competition with a last 16 tie against Inter Milan on the horizon.
TRANSFERS
Fernando Torres, Ryan Babel, Martin Skrtel, Lucas Leiva, Yossi Benayoun, Sebastian Leto, Andriy Voronin and Charles Itandje have all been brought in at an estimated cost of £50m.
Momo Sissoko, Djibril Cisse, Craig Bellamy, Luis Garcia, Mark Gonzalez, Jerzy Dudek and Robbie Fowler have all been sold or released with an estimated £31m being brought into the club.
There is also a deal near completion for Javier Mascherano, who would cost £18.6m.
THE STADIUM
One of the first pledges Hicks and Gillett made upon taking over the club was to have a spade go into Stanley Park within 60 days.
A total of 365 days have now passed and Stanley Park remains almost untouched.
Hicks and Gillett have revised the stadium plans they inherited twice during the past 12 months.
Their first effort had to be scaled down because costs threatened to spiral out of control.
The latest design, by Dallas-based HKS, has a 71,000 capacity, is due to be built for the start of the 2011/12 season and will cost around £300m to complete.
FINANCES
When Hicks and Gillett bought Liverpool FC they used loans rather than cash from their own personal fortunes to do so.
They paid £5,000 a share, a total outlay of £174.1m. They also borrowed another £11m to pay banks and advisers for doing the deal and a further £44.8m to absorb the club's debt at that stage. On top of this, another £70m was added to the loan for the stadium project and running costs.
At that stage, even though they had not spent a single cent from their own pockets, Hicks and Gillett told fans they would not "do a Glazer" by loading the club with debt.
Twelve months on and a huge refinancing deal later, such pledges ring incredibly hollow.
Financial restructuring was concluded last month when a £350m loan was taken out with the Royal Bank of Scotland and Wachovia. £105m of that was immediately loaded onto the club's books with the remaining £245m being taken on by Kop Holdings, the holding company set up by Hicks and Gillett when they bought the club last February.
In a recent statement, Hicks' spokesman admitted that the club will have to service the interest payments on both sections of the debt to the tune of around £30m a year.
THE CLUB'S REPUTATION
Alongside finances, the biggest area of concern since takeover.
Three major demonstrations by fans at a club which had previously had none tells its own sorry story.
From being a club which was renowned for keeping problems in-house, Liverpool have become a club where dirty linen is washed in public on an almost daily basis.
From Rafa Benitez's now infamous "I'm concentrating on coaching and training my players" press conference to Hicks' admission to the ECHO that Jurgen Klinsmann had been lined up as a successor to the Spaniard, the Americans’ PR has been a disaster zone.
Add in on-going speculation about the club's ownership and the last 12 months have been among the most difficult in Liverpool's history.
Damage has been done and unless there is a return to the principles of the much fabled "Liverpool Way" it will continue to be done.
RELATIONSHIPS
In simple terms, the relationship between Tom Hicks and George Gillett has all but broken down.
Marry at haste, repent at leisure seems to be the story of their partnership.
A marriage of convenience to see off DIC at the 11th hour has certainly not resulted in a tale of happy ever after.
Rumours of serious divisions between the pair have been circulating for some time and appeared to be confirmed when a statement was released to confirm the conclusion of refinancing, but it carried only Hicks' name. Gillett's was conspicuous by its absence.
Hicks has tried to build bridges with Benitez following his admission that he spoke to Klinsmann about replacing him and recently backed the Spaniard to continue as manager for the length of his current contract, a little over two more years.
Significantly, Gillett kept his counsel.
THE FUTURE
Dubai International Capital retain a very strong interest in buying Liverpool, an interest which did not wane whatsoever despite Hicks and Gillett concluding their refinancing deal.
The investment arm of the Dubai government may have missed out on getting their hands on the club last year, but they haven't gone away and the ECHO understands senior DIC executives have been in dialogue with Hicks and Gillett for several weeks with a view to doing a deal.
They are ready to test the American duo's determination to hold onto the club but only at a price that suits them – in their eyes, paying over the odds is not an option.
Significantly, Sheikh Mohammed al-Maktoum, whom the ECHO can reveal was a boyhood Liverpool fan, has now taken a personal interest in making the deal happen.
Last edited by account deleted by request on Wed Feb 06, 2008 4:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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