Liverpool FC Forum

by **Bammo** » Sun Jan 20, 2008 7:38 pm

I think the age of Premierhsip clubs being owned by fans is coming to an end. In order to be successful on the pitch, clubs need money and so need to be run by businessmen to be financially successful off the pitch.

Unless rules are introduced limiting spending, the clubs who win the Premiership will be spending more than they bring in. To do this they need to be owned by extremely rich people/organisations. Where we've been screwed over is G&H made a huge underestimation of how much it was going to cost them. Purely based on their interviews I'm inclined to believe that Gillet had the best of intentions but didn't realise the costs, whereas Hicks didn't care about the long-term and was only in it to make a quick buck.

Hicks' past is incredibly shady. Even his success in business was reliant on dubious contracts and Government/State deals. It wouldn't surprise me if he lied to Gillet about his intentions.

If DIC take over they'll still be a business running us to make money. That's pretty much all we can hope for nowadays. Just because one of them claims to be a fan doesn't mean it'll be a family club again. It won't (at least with regards to the board room - obviously us fans will never be put off). The difference between G&H and DIC is money, pure and simple. Both want to run us as a business to make a profit. DIC have the money to back us for the stadium and new players which may give us short term success and hopefully long-term.

by **kunilson** » Sun Jan 20, 2008 7:41 pm

NiftyNeil wrote:
kunilson wrote:alrite this has turned into a needless drama from my point of view......

Yea, needless drama. Two yanks who know nothing about the game, undermining the manager, lying to the fans, not releasing funds for transfers, offering Klinsman the job, financial uncertainty, stadium worries. Yea, not much to worry about there is there?

i was talking about this particular part of it....not the whole thing.

and i was a bit angry which is why i posted that "pointless" rant lol.....hopefully DIC will do a better job IF they do come in, but just have that worry that they will do more or less the same things as the americans but in their own way......but thats football these days. and thats the bed moores made for us.

by **LFC2007** » Sun Jan 20, 2008 7:46 pm

woof woof ! wrote:
LFC2007 wrote:
woof woof ! wrote:It goes totally against the grain but if us fans are serious and really want to get a message to the yanks, boycott the Villa match.
The sight of Liverpool playing in a totally empty Anfield will echo around the world. Hicks and Gillette will get the message.

If we want to make ourselves look like complete planks, destroy our credibility as supporters, inflame an already shambolic series of events mid-way through our season, potentially having serious consequences to the final outcome of our season - boycott the Villa match.

As it happens, I'll bet you my life that it won't happen, and so it shouldn't.

1) It probably won't happen because too many people (like yourself) are prepared to roll over and eat whatever sh'it is fed to them whilst others are prepared to fight.

As for
destroy our credibility as supporters, inflame an already shambolic series of events mid-way through our season, potentially having serious consequences to the final outcome of our season

2) How do you equate fans taking radical and assertive action with destroying our credibility as fans ? and as for "potentially serious consequences to the final outcome of our season" you fail to give a "such as" to support your Cassandra like prediction. How will the fans boycotting ONE game" seriously affect our season ? The players aren't daft , they'll realise that such a boycott is not about them.

The only fans that will look like planks are those that continue to keep quiet,sit on their hands and agree to do f'uck all while Hicks and Gillette continue to treat LFC as a mere commodity.

1) No mate, I'm not in favour of boycotting matches because my overwhelming feeling is that it is not in the best interests of the club. I'd sooner focus on supporting those who need supporting at this present moment i.e. the players and manager, rather than getting involved in some sort of vindictive plan to get at our owners. I'm certainly not rolling over, I've expressed my disdain for Gillett and Hicks, boycotting matches however is NOT the answer IMO. If you don't want to turn up and support the team and manager, that's down to you, but there will be no mass-boycott against Villa and you can quote me on that.

2) Supporters shouldn't boycott their team in times of need, they should stand up and support them. Standing up for what you believe in is standing up for the team, and Rafa at this present moment. Our reputation as fans is to stand and fight for our team, come hell or high water, not to desert our team and manager when they're struggling for support as it is - that's why I believe boycotts would damage our credibility. Gillett and Hicks have made mistakes, they've demonstrated a level of incompetence far beyond what I expected but that shouldn't lead supporters to react in a retaliatory vein at the potential short-term expense of the team and its results. The media would have a frenzy, I'm quite sure of that, and it's quite conceivable that we could finish outside of the top four if boycotts (one or more) ensued. Potentially serious consequences to the outcome of our season - if you hadn't read my previous posts - would be finishing outside of the top four. Cassandra? No. Boycotting one game might well seriously affect the outcome of our season, the importance of the Villa game cannot be understated, one look at the table will tell you this.

Edited in the interests of a happy forum.

by **Ciggy** » Sun Jan 20, 2008 7:49 pm

The fucking fat-headed saggy kunt, I hate him more every day, just fuck off.

by **metalhead** » Sun Jan 20, 2008 7:53 pm

Ciggy wrote:The fucking fat-headed saggy kunt, I hate him more every day, just fuck off.

Hicks reminds me of the owner in "Footballer's wives" show

by **Ciggy** » Sun Jan 20, 2008 7:58 pm

metalhead wrote:Hicks reminds me of the owner in "Footballer's wives" show

MH I really hate this man and I mean that.

Read that statement again, he doesnt mention Gillett once, its all I and me and my family.

Where is Gillett the silence has been deafening from Parry but Gillett has said fu.ck all very strange considering he was the one who wanted to buy us in the first place whats going on.?

George Gillett are you still alive?

by **metalhead** » Sun Jan 20, 2008 8:01 pm

Ciggy wrote:
metalhead wrote:Hicks reminds me of the owner in "Footballer's wives" show

MH I really hate this man and I mean that.

Read that statement again, he doesnt mention Gillett once, its all I and me and my family.

Where is Gillett the silence has been deafening from Parry but Gillett has said fu.ck all very strange considering he was the one who wanted to buy us in the first place whats going on.?

George Gillett are you still alive?

I think Gillete picked a wrong partner to co-own the club with, but he needs to say something he is being disowned by Hicks.

by **LFC2007** » Sun Jan 20, 2008 8:03 pm

nobybob wrote:1) I am sure we would all like absolute focus on football until the end of the season. But in case you havent noticed its the discracefull behaviour of the yanks that i believe has already and continues to distracted and lead to a bliiip. Our club and managers future is being speculated about everyday in the gutter press ,and the only course of action you advocate is not to cause any disruption until the end of the season!! in other words carry on as normal supporting the team and do nothing else. As i have already stated if we wait till the end of the season we lose any leverage we may have on G&H we could do absolutely nothing to hurt them. Sure radical action boycotts etc should be a last resort if all else fails but it must still be an option.I look upon it as the lesser of two evils , but if that's what it takes to rid us of G&H so be it.

2) PS from my reading of many of the past post you have made it is obvious that you are an intelligent guy so leave it out about ASDA i think we both know it WAS an analogy maybe not a very good one but an analogy none the less. what i was trying to get across to you was, imagine the worst case scenario would you still only advocate supporting the team, don't rock the boat etc how far would these numptys need to push before you would support something a bit more radical ?

1) I don't think they'll make any further mistakes ala the Klinnsmann remarks from now on, I reckon they'll have a rough idea that those comments didn't go down well. If DIC or any other potential bidder can do a deal to secure the club quickly, with minimal fuss, then I'm all for it. I'm not however, all for retaliatory action that in my view wouldn't be in the best interests of the club. I've never said supporters should just do nothing, sing like f*ck in support of Rafa and the team is what I'll do. Write to the club, to Gillett and Hicks, to Moores, to every club executive tell them your views if you want, or if you like shout what you think from the stands, just don't desert your team and manager in a time of desperate need.

2) It was not an analogy, read my previous post.

by **nobybob** » Sun Jan 20, 2008 8:14 pm

LFC2007 wrote:
woof woof ! wrote:
LFC2007 wrote:
woof woof ! wrote:It goes totally against the grain but if us fans are serious and really want to get a message to the yanks, boycott the Villa match.
The sight of Liverpool playing in a totally empty Anfield will echo around the world. Hicks and Gillette will get the message.

If we want to make ourselves look like complete planks, destroy our credibility as supporters, inflame an already shambolic series of events mid-way through our season, potentially having serious consequences to the final outcome of our season - boycott the Villa match.

As it happens, I'll bet you my life that it won't happen, and so it shouldn't.

1) It probably won't happen because too many people (like yourself) are prepared to roll over and eat whatever sh'it is fed to them whilst others are prepared to fight.

As for
destroy our credibility as supporters, inflame an already shambolic series of events mid-way through our season, potentially having serious consequences to the final outcome of our season

2) How do you equate fans taking radical and assertive action with destroying our credibility as fans ? and as for "potentially serious consequences to the final outcome of our season" you fail to give a "such as" to support your Cassandra like prediction. How will the fans boycotting ONE game" seriously affect our season ? The players aren't daft , they'll realise that such a boycott is not about them.

The only fans that will look like planks are those that continue to keep quiet,sit on their hands and agree to do f'uck all while Hicks and Gillette continue to treat LFC as a mere commodity.

1) No mate, I'm not in favour of boycotting matches because my overwhelming feeling is that it is not in the best interests of the club. I'd sooner focus on supporting those who need supporting at this present moment i.e. the players and manager, rather than getting involved in some sort of vindictive plan to get at our owners. I'm certainly not rolling over, I've expressed my disdain for Gillett and Hicks, boycotting matches however is NOT the answer. If you don't want to turn up and support the team and manager, that's down to you, but there will be no mass-boycott and you can quote me on that.

2) Supporters shouldn't boycott their team in times of need, they should stand up and support them. Standing up for what you believe in is standing up for the team, and Rafa at this present moment. Our reputation as fans is to stand and fight for our team, come hell or high water, not to desert our team and manager when they're struggling for support as it is - that's why I believe boycotts would damage our credibility and that's part of the reason why they won't take place. Gillett and Hicks have made mistakes, they've demonstrated a level of incompetence far beyond what I expected but that shouldn't lead supporters to react in a retaliatory vein. The media would have a frenzy, I'm quite sure of that, and it's quite conceivable that we could finish outside of the top four if boycotts (one or more) ensued, which they won't. Potentially serious consequences to the outcome of our season - if you hadn't read my previous posts - would be finishing outside of the top four. Cassandra? No. Boycotting one game might well seriously affect the outcome of our season, the importance of the Villa game cannot be understated, one look at the table will tell you this.

As you know mate i disagree with you on this issue for a million reasons but lets leave that aside for now.
what do you suggest we do that will actually have an affect on G&H can you suggest something practical that will really make them want to go?? Please don't repeat support the players and Rafa over again cos we all do and that has no effect on the yanks and their only concern here MONEY.
and true the importance of the villa game cannot be understated, but neither can the importance of getting these 2 out of our club now . i for one would happily take a loss to villa if the result helped get the yanks out.

by **LFC2007** » Sun Jan 20, 2008 8:17 pm

nobybob wrote:i for one would happily take a loss to villa if the result helped get the yanks out.

I wouldn't.

by **Redman in wales** » Sun Jan 20, 2008 8:17 pm

bbc article;

Hicks denies Liverpool sale talk

Under-fire Liverpool co-owner Tom Hicks says he has no intention of selling his 50% stake in the club.
BBC Sport understands an offer to buy out Hicks and co-owner George Gillett is being readied by Dubai International Capital (DIC).

But Hicks said: "I've not received any offer to purchase the club from DIC or anyone else, much less accepted any such offer.

"Nor do I have any intention of doing so," added the American.

Hicks and Gillett are currently looking to refinance the club's debt.

The Americans are trying to arrange a £350m loan that would enable them to repay money borrowed for their £218.9m takeover in March 2007.

They would also then be able to repay loans used to sign players and start work on a re-scaled plan for a new stadium in Stanley Park.

Reports in Liverpool on Sunday even suggested that the club had been sold to DIC.

"Whoever is behind this false report, the facts are that I and my family have always been, and remain, fully committed to co-owning the club," said Hicks.

"No-one in my family has ever indicated any intention or desire to sell our stake in the club.

"We expect and intend to be co-owners of the club, and to actively and enthusiastically support the club's manager, players and fans for many years to come."

Liverpool decided to sell to Hicks and Gillett instead of DIC last March but the American businessmen in particular Hicks, have been criticised for the way they have run the club.

Hicks admitted to talks last November with Jurgen Klinsmann about the German taking over from Rafael Benitez as manager.

The owners and Benitez have also had a very public spat after the Spaniard criticised their transfer policy.

Some Liverpool fans are planning to hold a protest against the American owners at Monday's home game against Aston Villa.

by **Ciggy** » Sun Jan 20, 2008 8:18 pm

LFC2007 wrote:
nobybob wrote:i for one would happily take a loss to villa if the result helped get the yanks out.

I wouldn't.

Neither would I, its because of whats going on at the momment that the team is all over the place.

LFC will still be here when they are gone.

by **JoeTerp** » Sun Jan 20, 2008 8:19 pm

metalhead wrote:
Ciggy wrote:
metalhead wrote:Hicks reminds me of the owner in "Footballer's wives" show

MH I really hate this man and I mean that.

Read that statement again, he doesnt mention Gillett once, its all I and me and my family.

Where is Gillett the silence has been deafening from Parry but Gillett has said fu.ck all very strange considering he was the one who wanted to buy us in the first place whats going on.?

George Gillett are you still alive?

I think Gillete picked a wrong partner to co-own the club with, but he needs to say something he is being disowned by Hicks.

yea he should have picked the other Dallas based sports owner, Mark Cuban. He is a multi-billionaire and is one of the most fanatic team supporting owners out there. Would do anything to see his team win, takes fines all the time, even ran up into a refs face after a game one time. He would stand in the middle of the Kop for EVERY home game, if LFC were the only team he owned

by **Emerald Red** » Sun Jan 20, 2008 8:19 pm

Bammo wrote:I think the age of Premierhsip clubs being owned by fans is coming to an end. In order to be successful on the pitch, clubs need money and so need to be run by businessmen to be financially successful off the pitch.

How can this be? Surely the money to pay for this success on the pitch still comes from the fans? Where's the difference? Just because someone takes a loan out or pays out of their own pocket doesn't mean it's still all theirs. At the end of the day, they do so to make a profit for themselves, and loans and whatnot still have to be paid off by us, the fans. We still own this club no matter who's in charge. I find it insulting that two d*ckheads that own MY club know nothing about it, nothing about the game either. I've been a fan of this club for around 20 years now. I'd like to think I know more about LFC than those two w@nkers, and so should you, and everyone else who is a long term supporter. By rights we all own the club more than they do. It's been part of our lives for so long that it should be, and on Monday night we'll let them know this. We can't allow any more damage that's already been done.

by **nobybob** » Sun Jan 20, 2008 8:23 pm

LFC2007 wrote:
nobybob wrote:i for one would happily take a loss to villa if the result helped get the yanks out.

I wouldn't.

why ??
look LFC would continue to exist as the club we all love regardless of the villa result . But if these two muppets remain in control they could continue to pull our club to bits.

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