Liverpool FC Forum

by **NANNY RED** » Sat Jan 05, 2008 12:06 am

Kharhaz wrote:
NANNY RED wrote:
Reg wrote:
NANNY RED wrote:Lately Reg the thing that bothers me the most is the lies we the fan got told they would not borrow money and put any dept on the club . Well as far as im concerned and ive said it many times i think they have bitten off more than they can chew cause they are borrowin money and we are gonna be in dept.

Thanks matey, its good to put yer thoughts down in writing at times.

I think you're bending the truth there arent you? No one has hundreds of millions of quid in cash lying around to finance these deals and if they did, they would still borrow at today's rediculously cheap rates and invest their own money in a higher yielding deal.

Me thinkies they promised they wouldnt sink the club with debt like the Glazers did at Puke Utd but I'm pretty sure they didnt intimate they were going to come in with suitcases full of used tenners.

But it looks like were gonna be in far bigger dept than the other lot down the M62 if they pull off this new 350 million there now askin the banks for . We have recouped a lot a money from our sales of out going players and Champions league plus premier league money so what have they actualy spent from there own pockets on players.

Maybe its just me but i dont trust them

A lot of the mistrust has been placed by the press and many people have taken in what they have written and looked at the players we have signed and sold and thought "Yeah, rafa hasnt spent that much!". Is this down to the chairman or down to the fact that rafa wanted rid of these players? Im prepared to give them a chance based solely on my own opinion.

Thats what its all about though Kharhaz at the end of the day an opinion on these two for or against

I read the papers who doesnt and i know they have certainly stirred thing up in recent weeks regarding the goings on but my mind was made up mate on these two in the beginning when they bought us, I really would love to be proved wrong

by **account deleted by request** » Sat Jan 05, 2008 12:44 am

I think you're bending the truth there arent you? No one has hundreds of millions of quid in cash lying around to finance these deals and if they did, they would still borrow at today's rediculously cheap rates and invest their own money in a higher yielding deal.

I think they see Liverpool AS A HIGHER YIELDING DEAL or why would they be investing in us? If there was a better deal out there they would have gone for that surely? No-one has hundreds of millions of cash lying around thats why we have banks. The problem is they borrowed the money to buy Liverpool, now they are trying to place that debt on the club.

Bit like you borrowing money to buy a car, secured against your house, then re-financing the loan secured against the car. If things then go tits up you only lose the car and not your house. They only lose Liverpool fc and not their assets. The problem is they are borrowing more money than the club is worth (try doing that with your car) which is why they are having trouble getting the finance.

by **Reg** » Sat Jan 05, 2008 1:50 am

All of the above comments are fair reflections of the fact that the club is abysmal at communicating with the fans. Y'know like Gillett's lad who's supposed to be running the place but one knows seen him for the last 6 months....

Cant help but think all sides would benefit from an informal Q&A session at a suitable venue where the owners, Parry, Rafa etc.. could explain their gameplan and take questions from the audience.

Doesn't the official fan club organise this kind of thing?

by **NANNY RED** » Sat Jan 05, 2008 1:59 am

Reg wrote:All of the above comments are fair reflections of the fact that the club is abysmal at communicating with the fans. Y'know like Gillett's lad who's supposed to be running the place but one knows seen him for the last 6 months....

Cant help but think all sides would benefit from an informal Q&A session at a suitable venue where the owners, Parry, Rafa etc.. could explain their gameplan and take questions from the audience.

Doesn't the official fan club organise this kind of thing?

Good shout Reg
In the past maybe but nowdays were only the fans. they know were gonna turn up to watch the match no matter what

by **J*o*n*D*o*e** » Sat Jan 05, 2008 3:06 am

thats a great way to go about buying a club isnt it, get people onside from the off by saying the club wont be put in debt, get your foot in the door then borrow money for the new stadium and refinance the original loan and put the debt back on the club, the club pay the debt and the interest, you get a football club worth hundreds of millions for nothing.

right on monday morning im buying the factory i work in, this time next year ill be broke

by **JohnBull** » Sat Jan 05, 2008 5:05 am

Some excellent posts here and we should take note of the differences between us and the Mancs and Gunners.
20 years ago when life was easy for the supporters and unbelievably easy for the boardroom who enjoyed a wonderful life style thanks to the club, the Mancs were moving with the times.

This is symptamatic of this bloody city where we've allowed everything from airports to arenas to football clubs to get stuck in the mud because the boards/councils/authorities are happy the way it is and "don't rock the boat"

The revenue being raised by the mancs and gunners is more than enough to keep the club debts in hand. We are 50 million a year behind just on gate receipts/ground revenues and every year this difference will increase. The gunners pulled their belt in while the emerates was being built and are now reaping the benefits.
We, on the other hand are expecting the new owners to continue throwing money into the squad and the new ground at the same time. The income/outgoings ratio just doesn't add up.

We need a ground with a much higher capacity and better facilities to bring us in line with the competition and we need to replace some of the dross we've spent squillions on. Make your mind up lads ( and Raffa !) you aint going to get both straight away.

I remember moaning to a mate who is high up in the bluenoses heirarchy. I couldn't get four tickets at Anfield for some mates but saw four tickets being sold to four visiting supporters from Hong Kong. I thought this was wrong but he pointed out that the four visitors would most likely be spending a few hundred quid in the ground shop and at the end of the day the shop till will win. Like it or lump it the money will always win in this "Sky" controlled sport.

If Raffa takes on the Yanks, he'll get battered !

by **teamleader1** » Sat Jan 05, 2008 10:43 am

JohnBull wrote:If Raffa takes on the Yanks, he'll get battered !

Totally agree,

Lets not forget Parry's part in all this, totally useless!
as for Rafa getting battered if he takes on the new owners, Im afraid hes already been battered and it would take a minor miracle to get him past the summer, hes not exactly helped himself with some of his more eccentric moments
So for me Rafa is on borrowed time,
the yanks look like the worst thing that could have happened to the club, after the charm offensive to get the club they are looking more and more like a couple of corporate pirates every day,
the next 3 weeks will show their hands for real, will they put their money where their mouths are? will they allow Rafa the freedom to manage like any top manager in the prem?
Or maybe they will just carry on treating us with contempt by not making any statements of intent.

I really fear for the club I love :down:

by **Ciggy** » Sat Jan 05, 2008 11:05 am

Great Article spot on.

Brian Reade 05/01/2008

The most depressing sound coming out of Anfield this week was not the boos from the stands or the desperate words from Rafa Benitez about the title still being winnable.

It was the eerie silence from the men who run the club. A silence which continues to deafen.

When the new owners handed David Moores £88million last February, they also tossed the fans some bold pledges: "This club is not far from being the best in the world. That's what we want. We need to look at all the resources we possibly can, to compete with Manchester and Chelsea", said George Gillett. And many Kopites believed that paradise was about to be regained.

A year on, those fans are still in purgatory, completely in the dark as to the thoughts going through the heads of the club's selfstyled "custodians".

There have been soundbites and flattery but little else. The new stadium plans, which were unveiled in July, have been ripped up on cost grounds. There are stories that the debt incurred in the takeover will have to be piled on to the club, Glazer-style.

Despite reaching two European Cup Finals in three years, Benitez is frozen out due to an ill-judged outburst, and is unsure how much, if any, cash he has for the January transfer window.

One of the few world-class players, Javier Mascherano, is left in limbo, with nobody prepared to say if the club will pay the going rate for him despite his desperation to stay. Every draw (not defeat) sparks speculation about Benitez's future, fuelled by informed sources saying the owners want him out before next season.

Well Texans like plain speaking, so here's some. If taking over Liverpool now looks like an expensive error, own up and sell. If you don't want Benitez, sack him instead of waiting for him to sack himself. If you believe in the Spaniard, then honour your pledge to the fans and give him licence to compete at the top end of the January transfer window.

Despite some terrible home form and bucketloads of hysteria, Liverpool aren't that far behind Manchester United. But there is a crucial factor holding them back. Alex Ferguson has superior quality all over his squad, meaning when he rotates (which he does as much as Benitez) he gets away with it.

That's because he has been allowed to compete for a decade with the Real Madrids, Barcelonas and the Chelseas.

From the £30m cheques written for Rio Ferdinand and Wayne Rooney, to the £18m spent on Michael Carrick and the £60m-plus he's just spent on Nani, Anderson and Owen Hargreaves. Benitez has competed with the big boys once. And bought Fernando Torres.

Critics mock his transfer dealings, and there's been the odd howler, but last January, with little money, he brought in Alvaro Arbeloa and Mascherano. Runaway successes both.

If he was allowed to sell Peter Crouch, Momo Sissoko and Scott Carson this month, he could show a £15m profit from his own dealings.

Under Gillett and Tom Hicks (inset) he's had one transfer window, spent a net £24m on Torres and two outstanding prospects - Ryan Babel and Lucas Leiva.

So why don't the American businessmen do what they do best. Disregard personal differences, look at the hard facts and realise Benitez deserves more, not less, freedom to buy.

Starve him of funds, force him into a corner, and he will leave for a top European club with genuine ambition, along with most of the class talent he has brought to Anfield.

Then those pledges of a year ago will be truly tested as they give another manager the chance to start again, with a "five-year plan" and little financial muscle.

Down that road lies only one certainty. Liverpool will undoubtedly emulate Manchester United.

By going for 26 years without winning the league. Or even Chelsea, by going 40.

http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport....0275279

by **Reg** » Sat Jan 05, 2008 11:19 am

All these negative reports can only be damaging, we REALLY need to sort this situation out fast.

by **teamleader1** » Sat Jan 05, 2008 11:46 am

Reg wrote:All these negative reports can only be damaging, we REALLY need to sort this situation out fast.

But this can ONLY be done by the owners!

They think fk all about the fans or the traditions of of the club, otherwise they would have come out and calmed every ones fears long before now.
all we can assume is they they have no faith in Rafa and will get shut of him as soon as a replacement is found, are not prepared to back up their boasts of paying whatever it takes to make LFC top dogs,

Are they playing mind games with us all?
will we all be grateful to accept much less, just to see the club not going to the wall?
They are not stupid, they know the unrest they are causing amongst the fans and within the club by not even making a statement of intent.
Hopefully they will sell on!

by **Lando_Griffin** » Sat Jan 05, 2008 1:01 pm

Ciggy wrote:Great Article spot on.

Brian Reade 05/01/2008

The most depressing sound coming out of Anfield this week was not the boos from the stands or the desperate words from Rafa Benitez about the title still being winnable.

It was the eerie silence from the men who run the club. A silence which continues to deafen.

When the new owners handed David Moores £88million last February, they also tossed the fans some bold pledges: "This club is not far from being the best in the world. That's what we want. We need to look at all the resources we possibly can, to compete with Manchester and Chelsea", said George Gillett. And many Kopites believed that paradise was about to be regained.

A year on, those fans are still in purgatory, completely in the dark as to the thoughts going through the heads of the club's selfstyled "custodians".

There have been soundbites and flattery but little else. The new stadium plans, which were unveiled in July, have been ripped up on cost grounds. There are stories that the debt incurred in the takeover will have to be piled on to the club, Glazer-style.

Despite reaching two European Cup Finals in three years, Benitez is frozen out due to an ill-judged outburst, and is unsure how much, if any, cash he has for the January transfer window.

One of the few world-class players, Javier Mascherano, is left in limbo, with nobody prepared to say if the club will pay the going rate for him despite his desperation to stay. Every draw (not defeat) sparks speculation about Benitez's future, fuelled by informed sources saying the owners want him out before next season.

Well Texans like plain speaking, so here's some. If taking over Liverpool now looks like an expensive error, own up and sell. If you don't want Benitez, sack him instead of waiting for him to sack himself. If you believe in the Spaniard, then honour your pledge to the fans and give him licence to compete at the top end of the January transfer window.

Despite some terrible home form and bucketloads of hysteria, Liverpool aren't that far behind Manchester United. But there is a crucial factor holding them back. Alex Ferguson has superior quality all over his squad, meaning when he rotates (which he does as much as Benitez) he gets away with it.

That's because he has been allowed to compete for a decade with the Real Madrids, Barcelonas and the Chelseas.

From the £30m cheques written for Rio Ferdinand and Wayne Rooney, to the £18m spent on Michael Carrick and the £60m-plus he's just spent on Nani, Anderson and Owen Hargreaves. Benitez has competed with the big boys once. And bought Fernando Torres.

Critics mock his transfer dealings, and there's been the odd howler, but last January, with little money, he brought in Alvaro Arbeloa and Mascherano. Runaway successes both.

If he was allowed to sell Peter Crouch, Momo Sissoko and Scott Carson this month, he could show a £15m profit from his own dealings.

Under Gillett and Tom Hicks (inset) he's had one transfer window, spent a net £24m on Torres and two outstanding prospects - Ryan Babel and Lucas Leiva.

So why don't the American businessmen do what they do best. Disregard personal differences, look at the hard facts and realise Benitez deserves more, not less, freedom to buy.

Starve him of funds, force him into a corner, and he will leave for a top European club with genuine ambition, along with most of the class talent he has brought to Anfield.

Then those pledges of a year ago will be truly tested as they give another manager the chance to start again, with a "five-year plan" and little financial muscle.

Down that road lies only one certainty. Liverpool will undoubtedly emulate Manchester United.

By going for 26 years without winning the league. Or even Chelsea, by going 40.

http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport....0275279

I've got to say, that's a pretty good assessment.

Virtually any team in the World (with the exception of the silly-a*ses in this country) would snap our hand off for Rafa.

It's about time everyone realised you don't get that if you're sh*t.

by **drevinho** » Sat Jan 05, 2008 2:43 pm

We want Javier Mascherano to stay in Liverpool! Sign name here to support this: http://users2.smartgb.com/g/g.php?a=s&i=g25-16037-5c PLEASE SIGN AND THEN SEND THIS TO AS MANY AS YOU CAN SO WE CAN SEND THIS TO LIVERPOOL THEN ENOUGH NAMES ARE GATHERED![B]SIGN HERE TO SUPPORT THE 'KEEPING' OF MASCHE! KEEP MASCHE IN POOL! SIGN HERE!

by **Ciggy** » Sat Jan 05, 2008 2:49 pm

Lawro said earlier on Football Focus "I would have a little bet that the Americans would leave Liverpool before Rafa Benitez does" hopefully he's right but if his football predictions are anything to go by he's probably wrong.

by **66-1112520797** » Sat Jan 05, 2008 2:56 pm

Down that road lies only one certainty. Liverpool will undoubtedly emulate Manchester United.

By going for 26 years without winning the league. Or even Chelsea, by going 40

Good article.

Those two sentences are frightening, and the way the club is being run at the mo, seem possible.

by **zarababe** » Sat Jan 05, 2008 2:56 pm

Ciggy wrote:Lawro said earlier on Football Focus "I would have a little bet that the Americans would leave Liverpool before Rafa Benitez does" hopefully he's right but if his football predictions are anything to go by he's probably wrong.

lol I hope he's gone against form and got that one right !

I heard a correspondent last night on radio from Spain likening the current situation to Valencia, where Rafa ended up alienating the board, being rather stubborn about formations and rotation and that the players were fed-up of it and glad to see him go - that worries me a bit cos things could go down that route here too where the pressure to succeed in th eleague is 10x worse- for me RAFA is the best chance we have of winning the title -providing we get some more class palyers in - I hope it doesn't go pear-shaped before that !

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