Liverpool FC Forum

by **woof woof !** » Sat Oct 20, 2007 7:25 pm

The dust has settled a bit . Three points and Rafa outwits us all

I think despite the win some of the decisions made today are going to raise more questions than answers.

Considered responses please folks.

by **112-1077774096** » Sat Oct 20, 2007 7:32 pm

well i had a kip after the game and have now got up to watch the rugby.

mmmm the derby. 3 points very much needed, typical derby. i am not a big fan of kuyt but 2 good penalties, well done (although your header from 6 yards was more like your normal self, but i was amazed by your flying drop kick

)

when they went to 10 men we should have wrapped that game up. we had one player who was rampaging and rafa took him off in one of the craziest decisions the guy has ever made and any attempt to try and justify it would just be wrong. even when gerrard took the armband to carra you can clearly see carra say "do you have a problem"? even carra thought he must be injured and thats why he was going off.

we battled well today, and we won today, but i dont think the manager helped us, both penalties were deserved, they should have had one at the end so we were lucky there.

at the moment i think rafa is a chancer, he is taking too many chances, today he got lucky, the past month he hasnt got lucky. someone needs to have a word with him, i seriously do think know that pako was the brains in that relationship

by **Emerald Red** » Sat Oct 20, 2007 7:35 pm

Rafa set out today, not to outwit the managerial skill of David Moyes, but to outwit everyone in general who tried to predict his next tactical move. He succeeded in every way possible. The man is genius. No one guessed any of his moves.

by **account deleted by request** » Sat Oct 20, 2007 7:38 pm

Rafa's reasons:-
Why did he pick that team - He picked a team that would battle and fight for every ball

Why did he take Gerrard off - He wanted more control in midfield, Gerrard was hitting too many long balls, and Rafa wanted a more deliberate build up.

Why did he not take Sissoko off - Without Sissoko and with Lucas and Mascherano in midfield we would have been murdered in the air.

Why did he bring Babel on and stick him on the wing - He wanted to push back the Everton defence and force Lescott to spend more time defending and less time ripping our right side apart.

Why did he bring Pennant on so late - We were desperate for a goal and by moving Babel inside it posed them more questions while still keeping Lescott busy.

Those are my theories, not very good but the best I can do with the crazy decisions

by **Emerald Red** » Sat Oct 20, 2007 7:45 pm

s@int wrote:Rafa's reasons:-
Why did he pick that team - He picked a team that would battle and fight for every ball

Why did he take Gerrard off - He wanted more control in midfield, Gerrard was hitting too many long balls, and Rafa wanted a more deliberate build up.

Why did he not take Sissoko off - Without Sissoko and with Lucas and Mascherano in midfield we would have been murdered in the air.

Why did he bring Babel on and stick him on the wing - He wanted to push back the Everton defence and force Lescott to spend more time defending and less time ripping our right side apart.

Why did he bring Pennant on so late - We were desperate for a goal and by moving Babel inside it posed them more questions while still keeping Lescott busy.

Those are my theories, not very good but the best I can do with the crazy decisions

Very good, mate. I think you've gone were no man has gone of late, and got into the mind of Rafa Benitez.

by **Feeney** » Sat Oct 20, 2007 7:47 pm

s@int wrote:Rafa's reasons:-
Why did he pick that team - He picked a team that would battle and fight for every ball

Why did he take Gerrard off - He wanted more control in midfield, Gerrard was hitting too many long balls, and Rafa wanted a more deliberate build up.

Why did he not take Sissoko off - Without Sissoko and with Lucas and Mascherano in midfield we would have been murdered in the air.

Why did he bring Babel on and stick him on the wing - He wanted to push back the Everton defence and force Lescott to spend more time defending and less time ripping our right side apart.

Why did he bring Pennant on so late - We were desperate for a goal and by moving Babel inside it posed them more questions while still keeping Lescott busy.

Those are my theories, not very good but the best I can do with the crazy decisions

Interesting reasoning there Saint.

One thing that has staggered me over the last few games in how lacking in width we've become and still Rafa refuses to play Babel and Pennant more prominantly.

Today's game was a prime example, especially once Hibbert went off. Riise was finding acres of space - imagine what a more comfortable Pennant or Babel (on the ball) could have done in the 38 - 40 mins that were to follow?

Again, we seemed loathe to make a change when the game cried out for it. I was very surprised to see Gerrard taken off at that point tho - Rafa said it was because he was losing his head, but it seemed that Gerrard was really beginning to do some damage at that point.

Ultimately, any arguement will come down to the final goal (Leiva hit the shot that lead to the pen, with Pennant and Babel involved in the move) and the final result. However, the performance, especially the scandalous squandering of posession by the majority of the squad, not just Sissoko! will leave, admittedly a dulled sensation given the manner of the result - a sour taste in my mouth.

by **Elchris** » Sat Oct 20, 2007 7:50 pm

Lucas Leiva , what a player he's going to be , looks like guti and plays like him too...!!!! But benitez have to think more about he's tactics, it looked like liverpool was playing for a draw when everton were down to 10 , terrible..!!! We should be playing more attacking syle football , if we play like this against arsenal , we'll get hammered..

**Veronin first touch is fantastic..!! What a game he had plus he's very hardworking and neat .

by **112-1077774096** » Sat Oct 20, 2007 7:56 pm

with rafas comments i can only think gerrard was brought off for attacking, rafa must have told us to sit back and gerrard was busy rampaging forward going for the win.

i think rafa wanted to sit on the draw, he wanted us to sit deep. this is why pennant stayed on the bench and we never went more attacking when they had 10 men.

i hope this isnt the case as that is negative to the extreme

by **bigmick** » Sat Oct 20, 2007 7:57 pm

A really strange game. I actually didn't think we played too badly unlike many of the posters who have expressed an opinion. The main talking point though will undoubtedly be botht he substitution of Gerrard when it came, and the extremely ill-advised post match interview (if indeed he did make the "playing with your head" comment.

I don't normally do this but as bobody else has yet, here's my little run-down.

Reina- No chance with the goal and did everything else pretty well. He will have had nightmares pre-match about last years horror show and did well to overcome them. In the top two keepers in the league, and quite possibly the best.

Finnan-As it was the first time this season he had played with Gerrard, it was unsurprising to see him look a little lost when the captain "wandered". Was up against Lescott, who like Cahill before him is proving that you don't need necessarily to have an exotic sounding name to be a good player. Finnan looks to me like he maybe in his last season as a rock-solid first team regular.

Hyppia-I thought he was excellent. The goal was just one of those things which happen, and he made some superb defensive headers under extreme pressure. I had grave concerns about him before the game but he proved them unnecessary. He was probably helped by the awfulness of Yakubu, but full marks to the big man.

Carragher-Usual self, solid and committed. A bit lucky not to get booked earlier and be under red-card pressure.

Riise-Decent game I thought. The defence as a whole was reasonably solid under the predicted aerial onslaught, and Riise sis his bit.

Sissoko-Poor game by his standards, although not as bad as some are making out. I think he is probably getting stick as a result of the substitution of Gerrard, but a she didn't make the call it seems a bit unfair. The thing to remember about Sissoko though is he is a ball-winning midfiled player and no amount of jumping up and down is going to make him become different. Once he was paired with Masherano it was folly to expect lots of creativity from the central midfield, and we didn't get a lot. Similarly, moving him to right midfield was simply silly, and I'd be interested to hear what the "in Rafa we trust" brigade thought of that option.

Masherano-Usual self, and he did have more of a willingness to come in short. Tidy in posession as ever, but I still would like to see him taking a little more responsibility in posession.

Gerrard-Not back to his very best, but the best player on view in either team by an absolute bus ride and a much more encouraging performance. Won the equalising penalty from nothing and was in the process of taking the game not just by the scruff of the neck but by other body parts as well before the substuitution. It should also be mentioned as a point of balance that he won the penalty from LEFT midfield. The decision had clearly been made at half-time to switch him so as to expose the lack of pace of Hibbert. Though I hate to see him play there, it worked and the manager deserves credit for a good spot and a bold move.

Benayoun-Drifted in and out and looked precisely like what he is, over-rotated and unsure of his surroundings. I still have reservations about whther he can do it at our level, but until he plays we won't know.

Kuyt-Full marks for having the bottle to take the penalties, and even fuller marks for scoring with both. Thoguht he had a decent enough game but made a mess of his only real chance (the header) and continues to look like he won't score from open play very often.

Voronin-I actually thought he was quite poor today. Looked mre like the free transfer that he is than he has previously.

Subs- I won't go through them all but Lucas is clearly a very talented footballer. On this evidence, if Torres is injured again I would consider playing him off the front man. Babel showed a bit, but sooner or later we might think about playing him where he has played most if his career. Given we paid ten million squid for him, you would hope he might be fairly decent there.

Rafa-good call on the positional switch of Gerrard. Desperately bad one with the substitution, and a really awful piece of man-management to say what he apprently did in the interview. Not a good day at the office.

by **account deleted by request** » Sat Oct 20, 2007 8:08 pm

Feeney wrote:One thing that has staggered me over the last few games in how lacking in width we've become and still Rafa refuses to play Babel and Pennant more prominantly.

Today's game was a prime example, especially once Hibbert went off. Riise was finding acres of space - imagine what a more comfortable Pennant or Babel (on the ball) could have done in the 38 - 40 mins that were to follow?

I agree mate, there was acres of space down our left hand side, we should have used it better. Riise ran himself into the ground bombing up and down, but we could have done with a real winger to open them up properly.

by **Igor Zidane** » Sat Oct 20, 2007 8:08 pm

Good and fair post that mick ,apart from the bad day at the office bit. 3pts away from home against local rivals , absolute stinker at the office , the man can't win , honest to goodnesss.

by **sgs** » Sat Oct 20, 2007 8:14 pm

I probably will ge a stick saying this here, but most of the problems Rafa has had with 'pool recently comes from a too-British understanding of the game.

Rafa Benitez football is first about the head, not your typical British 'getting stuck in'..Just take a peek back at Valencia!
If folks would just let the man be, he might yet win a WPOY for Gerrard!

by **JamCar05** » Sat Oct 20, 2007 8:26 pm

Wow, this game was a strange one. So many things happened in the second half, that will be talked about for a long time (especially by the bitters, but also us concerning the substitution of SG - the entire crowd just went silent, no one had foreseen that one

). In the first half we started out well with the chance to Voronin and some good play by Benayoun, but they took over and put us under pressure with their set pieces (unlucky Sami).

What really changed the game though, was of course the penalty and the following red card. There's no doubt that Hibbert pulled Gerrard's shirt, but there will be great debating about this episode over the next period of time. Was it inside or outside (I think you can justify that it was inside)? But I'm sure most other fans will jump on our captain, as he looked directly back at the ref and then furthermore went to have a word with him. I must admit this situation seemed strange, and in all honesty it seemed like the ref was ready with the yellow card, until Gerrard went past him (but maybe he just pulled the yellow card up along with the black book, and had already decided on a red card, as Hibbert was definitely the last man?). I think he'll definitely receive some stick for this, and I'm not sure I would have liked it one bit, if for example fat Frank had done it against us. (What does everyone else in all honesty think about this, no one seems to be mentioning the situation

)

Kuyt was as cool as they come with the penalty though, and afterwards we really should have wrapped up the game with great chances for Riise, Kuyt, Voronin and Sissoko. How on earth we missed some of those chances I don't know. Everton might also have had a penalty though shortly after, where either Carra or Finnan had his arms around Lescott. And as Mick said, Carra was at this time lucky not to be on a yellow with his complaining to the ref (he went a bit overboard imho, in the way he kept talking to the ref, but on the other hand it just goes to show how much he cared for this game - which became even more evident after the game finished, and he just ran straight across the field to our supporters... great lad :cool:

)

The substitution of Gerrard probably baffled everyone everywhere, and I agree with most that Rafa made a huge gamble with this move. Not that Lucas didn't do well, he did extremely well, but he should have been on for either Sissoko or Masch instead (most will undoubtedly point to Momo). It all worked out for the best now (what with Lucas earning the penalty - just wish he had gotten the goal himself instead), but I just hope there isn't going to be any problems about this decision. I'm not sure Stevie will be too delighted about being subbed in such a tense derby, and if Rafa has indeed made the post-match comments he has, then he will be further infuriated to see this. Not a smart move from Rafa, and I am also a bit embarrassesd about the fact, that he allegedly accused Lescott of a diving, when he could in all honesty have had a penalty right at the end of the game.

All in all: really pleased with the 3 points today, as there is nothing better than beating the blueshite, but I could have been without some of the drama of today's game

Things are still not really working out for us on the field, and Rafa does seem, as if he himself feels under pressure at the moment. But I definitely won't complain about 3 points in one of our most difficult away games, it was just what we needed, no matter how it came about. Onwards and upwards from now on. YNWA.

by **112-1077774096** » Sat Oct 20, 2007 8:26 pm

anyway i think there is a more important question that needs answering here, what was rafas tongue so red?

by **daxy1** » Sat Oct 20, 2007 8:35 pm

peewee wrote:anyway i think there is a more important question that needs answering here, what was rafas tongue so red?

i think thats chompin on the bit mate i know my @rse was twitchin!

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