Liverpool FC Forum

by **roberto green** » Mon Sep 17, 2007 9:55 pm

i think the problem with crouch is he knows he has got a world class striker in torres there now and he knows he is on his way out so he basically doesnt give it sh!t plus he thinks cos he scored the most goals last season it merits him starting every game.

by **Scottbot** » Mon Sep 17, 2007 10:23 pm

Some good stuff in here but remember plenty more quality posts needed in the scapegoat thread.

by **AB's Red Army** » Mon Sep 17, 2007 10:30 pm

Ace Ventura wrote:If he had of scored the volley against Toulouse then everyone would of been raving about him, the fact is he missed and maybe should of done better with another couple of chances but its not easy for strikers coming in when they have not been getting games.
For one it affects confidence and other thing it creates pressure on him. The media hasnt helped trying to make stuff up without any foundation, but the 2 or 3 games he has started it means that he is being scrutinised more than other players, when he hasnt had much time on the pitch and will obviously be rusty.
People are looking for a scapegoat after dropping a couple of points on Saturday and Crouch is an easy target.
But not one that deserves it imo.
Get him in a side that contains our best players and see the difference, put him in a side that contains 4 or 5 changes from the previous game and it helps nobody.

Sorry, everybody doesn't include me. A superb goal doesn't make a player. Otherwise the likes of Riise would be the greatest players the world has ever seen.

He was poor in the summer and he's been poor so far. No ifs or buts about it. You can't blame rotation for him not being a threat with the ball at his feet, or losing possession, or looking like he couldn't be arsed, or not linking up well enough. Things that did he once was good at.

You can call it speculation but imo the relationship between Benitez and Crouch is not the same it was two seasons ago. To me it's noticeable.

by **Sabre** » Mon Sep 17, 2007 10:31 pm

wrong thread, edited.

by **Scottbot** » Mon Sep 17, 2007 10:39 pm

For those who choose to judge Crouch on the limited time he's played this season and might have forgotten that Crouch is actually pretty handy player some of the time.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v....search=

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ByHt7zgLUvU

by **Scottbot** » Mon Sep 17, 2007 10:44 pm

AB's Red Army wrote:He was poor in the summer and he's been poor so far. No ifs or buts about it. You can't blame rotation for him not being a threat with the ball at his feet, or losing possession, or looking like he couldn't be arsed, or not linking up well enough. Things that did he once was good at.

Come on AB, you're not normally one to make snap judgements. Are you saying he was good enough before but now? On the basis of very few minutes on the pitch and just one premiership start (as part of a Liverpool B team i might add) and the fact he didn't set the world alight in pre-season (he didn't get that greater run out then either mind) you now don't think he is up to it?

by **AB's Red Army** » Mon Sep 17, 2007 10:44 pm

Scottbot wrote:For those who choose to judge Crouch on the limited time he's played this season and might have forgotten that Crouch is actually pretty handy player some of the time.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v....search=

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ByHt7zgLUvU

I haven't forgotten certainly. I've defended him plenty of times.

However at this point of time he's been :censored:

and he doesn't suit the way we've been playing. It's no coincidence imo that we've been winning games and playing well without the big man.

He's suited to European football because defenders don't know how to defend against him. In England, everyone by now knows what to do against the big fella.

He's not a threat in the air by any means, Luis Garcia for instance was a better header of the ball than he is. On the ground he's decent, has some lovely touches but it's not hard to keep him in check imo.

by **AB's Red Army** » Mon Sep 17, 2007 10:50 pm

Scottbot wrote:
AB's Red Army wrote:He was poor in the summer and he's been poor so far. No ifs or buts about it. You can't blame rotation for him not being a threat with the ball at his feet, or losing possession, or looking like he couldn't be arsed, or not linking up well enough. Things that did he once was good at.

Come on AB, you're not normally one to make snap judgements. Are you saying he was good enough before but now? On the basis of very few minutes on the pitch and just one premiership start (as part of a Liverpool B team i might add) and the fact he didn't set the world alight in pre-season (he didn't get that greater run out then either mind) you now don't think he is up to it?

You have to ask yourself why he was given such little time in pre-season and why he's played less than our other centerforwards? To me it's more than just the other players are better than him. Voronin imo is not a better footballer than Crouch but he's played a hell of a lot more than Crouch has.

Something is up as I mentioned earlier in relation to him and Benitez.

Is he a good player? Yes but imo for us to be successful in this league and actually win it, Crouch can not be the center-piece of our team. Pace isn't everything of course, but personally I feel that our players need to up the tempo of their passing flow when playing. To me that's when we're the biggest threat.

Some of the interchanges between our players against Villa and Chelsea for example was great to watch. There was fluidity in our movement, and I think it's partly down to the fact that we have a player up front who runs intelligently.

Add Babel to the mix and you have another element in the team that is very useful. Pennant, apart from the game against Portsmouth, has been burning defenders left and right.

I think Crouch slows us down this season based on what I've seen. Our players change their mindset to hitting it long to Crouch and we're wasting possession. Peter's movement is slow and we can't counter very well with him in the side. It's obvious.

He can't run at players well enough consistently.

We now have players in our arsenal that can break quickly and stretch defenders. Crouch imo doesn't suit us when we play like that.

by **Sabre** » Mon Sep 17, 2007 10:51 pm

However at this point of time he's been and he doesn't suit the way we've been playing. It's no coincidence imo that we've been winning games and playing well without the big man.

It's not a coincidence. It's because we have serious competition in the squad. But that isn't a strong point against Crouch, as we also managed to win comfortably without Gerrard, the best player of the squad.

Crouch has good and bad patches like every bloody striker. He was the maximum scorer in the squad yesteryear, the only one to manage to do a hat trick in all the season, so please, it's all nice to be excited with the new players, but let's not demote the top scorer of last season to fifth option in the attack when we're not even in October. Surely he deserves a bit more time to make a veredict of him needing to go? Christmas, at least ?

He's suited to European football because defenders don't know how to defend against him. In England, everyone by now knows what to do against the big fella.

He's not a threat in the air by any means, Luis Garcia for instance was a better header of the ball than he is.

Garcia was a better header than many. Goals like the one of Anderlech with that timing in his neck and scoring from so far is not at the hands of just any player.

Aerial threat is more than the finishing, which Crouch has done a few. Crouch provided lot of touches and second chances that other team members were very grateful to receive.

by **AB's Red Army** » Mon Sep 17, 2007 10:54 pm

Crouch has good and bad patches like every bloody striker. He was the maximum scorer in the squad yesteryear, the only one to manage to do a hat trick in all the season, so please, it's all nice to be excited with the new players, but let's not demote the top scorer of last season to fifth option in the attack when we're not even in October. Surely he deserves a bit more time to make a veredict of him needing to go? Christmas, at least

Er so what? That was last season, this is this season. Apart from Crouch, only Kuyt was scoring goals up front and not many away from home at that. Bellamy was very poor.

There weren't many options for us to go to last season.

Cisse was the 2nd top goal-scorer with Gerrard, with 20 goals two seasons back and he was shipped out the following year.

[Read my other post for more details to why I think Crouch is not as useful to us as before].

I do believe that he will be helpful in the second part of the season. I think the fact that he's started so slowly will allow him to gain momentum when other players may be burned out.

by **Kharhaz** » Mon Sep 17, 2007 10:58 pm

Crouch owes nothing to anybody. Ive rated him since Rafa signed him and still do. I think the only problem is that his confidence has taken a knock. All people talk about when they see crouch is his height. So what? hes tall but he has better natural technique with regards to controlling the ball than most players not only in the premiership but in the world. Give him the games and he'll give you the performances.

by **NANNY RED** » Mon Sep 17, 2007 10:59 pm

Scottbot wrote:For those who choose to judge Crouch on the limited time he's played this season and might have forgotten that Crouch is actually pretty handy player some of the time.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v....search=

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ByHt7zgLUvU

I agree sometimes, but at the moment his body language on the pitch when he has played is no good.Im not happy also about the comments he made in tonights echo

Recalled striker Peter Crouch claimed Liverpool took a poit from the kind of fixture they might have lost last season.

“A lot of teams will find it very difficult coming to Portsmouth. They are a strong side physically – probably the strongest in the league,” he said.

“We matched them in that way and maybe a year or two ago we would have lost that game.

“I think it's a decent point, even though we're disappointed not to take away all three.”

As a supporter we should be battering teams like them

by **AB's Red Army** » Mon Sep 17, 2007 11:00 pm

Kharhaz wrote:Crouch owes nothing to anybody. Ive rated him since Rafa signed him and still do. I think the only problem is that his confidence has taken a knock. All people talk about when they see crouch is his height. So what? hes tall but he has better natural technique with regards to controlling the ball than most players not only in the premiership but in the world. Give him the games and he'll give you the performances.

Will those performances be good enough for us to win the league in your mind?

by **Kharhaz** » Mon Sep 17, 2007 11:03 pm

AB's Red Army wrote:
Kharhaz wrote:Crouch owes nothing to anybody. Ive rated him since Rafa signed him and still do. I think the only problem is that his confidence has taken a knock. All people talk about when they see crouch is his height. So what? hes tall but he has better natural technique with regards to controlling the ball than most players not only in the premiership but in the world. Give him the games and he'll give you the performances.

Will those performances be good enough for us to win the league in your mind?

If he gets a run in the team, say 3 games then i'll be able to answer that one.

by **whylongball?** » Mon Sep 17, 2007 11:44 pm

Sabre wrote:
Ace Ventura wrote:Like last season i think Crouch is getting a raw deal from Rafa.
He was top scorer last season despite Kuyt getting far more time on the pitch.
This season he has hardly had a look in and not been given one chance alongside the supposed main man (Torres).
To be honest he does look like a man who is short on confidence but we all know that he can do the business, he proved it regulaly last season.
Give him a chance alongside Torres, where Fernando can make the defenders worry about the ball in behind and then Crouch can hold the ball up and bring the midfield into play...then judge him.

Happy to see that there are Crouch defenders out there. I think that last point is very important. Torres is a player that has done superbly well so far, but just like he was without scoring for Spain in a year (7-8 games) he will have such a drought in this team. If he doesn't and scores regularly like he has until now, I will have to say I'm astonished.

But I do agree he improves the team a lot, and that he benefits his team mates with his game. And for what is worth, I too want to see Crouch and Torres together.

this is the pair that i want to see as well....
looks like there are a lot of people looking for someone/something to blame after a poor performance :no

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