Liverpool FC Forum

by **Effes** » Thu Oct 05, 2006 6:13 am

Espionage wrote: but is it mad to put him there? I think not.

Well I think yes, as do many reds I talk to so I aint alone on that one.

by **Ciggy** » Thu Oct 05, 2006 8:45 am

Espionage wrote: "Surely realised that by now" sounds a little over-the-top when there are been no real evidence suggesting that it was even a poor decesion to put him there in the first place.

He played great against Chelsea, and he was put there for tactical reasons (seemingly in order to expose Boulahrouz). He spends alot of his time cutting into the middle anyway. Maybe he is not as good there as he is on the right but is it mad to put him there? I think not.

Its not over the top atall, its pathetic to play the best central midfielder LFC has ever had on the left side of midfield.
Ok he contained Boulahrouz in the game against Chelsea but what about the game against Bolton

Surely Aurelio could have played there?
But no we got Bellamy who is a forward and Gerrard a central midfielder interchanging.

Its such a waste playing these 2 players out of their normal positions when they dont have any influence on the game, play them in the correct positons or dont play them atall.

I never want to see Gerrard on the left again, and I will be really p.issed off with Rafa if he continues to do so.

by **bigmick** » Thu Oct 05, 2006 9:04 am

Ciggy wrote:
Espionage wrote: "Surely realised that by now" sounds a little over-the-top when there are been no real evidence suggesting that it was even a poor decesion to put him there in the first place.

He played great against Chelsea, and he was put there for tactical reasons (seemingly in order to expose Boulahrouz). He spends alot of his time cutting into the middle anyway. Maybe he is not as good there as he is on the right but is it mad to put him there? I think not.

Its not over the top atall, its pathetic to play the best central midfielder LFC has ever had on the left side of midfield.
Ok he contained Boulahrouz in the game against Chelsea but what about the game against Bolton

Surely Aurelio could have played there?
But no we got Bellamy who is a forward and Gerrard a central midfielder interchanging.

Its such a waste playing these 2 players out of their normal positions when they dont have any influence on the game, play them in the correct positons or dont play them atall.

I never want to see Gerrard on the left again, and I will be really p.issed off with Rafa if he continues to do so.

Just about agree with every single word of that. I probably won't be quite as p!ssed off with Rafa as Lynds will (I can't quite get fired up like she can) but I'll be pretty annoyed anyhow

by **craig da Toxteth iron** » Thu Oct 05, 2006 9:12 am

LFC #1 wrote:
craig da Toxteth iron wrote:
Espionage wrote:
Lando_Griffin wrote:
stmichael wrote:I personally think that we should play Garcia more while chances are at a bit of a premium as he makes things happen.

Bingo.

The lad has tremendous ability to unlock defences, but he doesn't seem to be playing as well this year, which is probably why we haven't seen as much of him.

My guess is Spain's WC campaign took a fair bit out of him emotionally. Once he gets his rythm back, he'll feature more and more, IMHO.

The trouble with playing Luis in his best position (behind the striker(s)), ofcourse, is we have to drop someone and change the system.
I'd go for this team away from home, which provides width, grit and defensive solidity, with attacking flair to rival anything in Europe:

Reina

JC Sami Agger

Xabi Sissoko
Gerrard Riise
Garcia

Crouch Kuyt.

I prefer 3-5-2 as a formation, as it brings out the best in Riise, as well as allowing a very attacking side to remain solid at the back.
Finnan hasn't been playing well recently, so this formation would probably resolve the uncertainty among thr back line aswell.

Whatever Rafa chooses to do, though, will obviously be with the benefit of seeing how the players react to different systems, etc.

But I have to say that with 6 regular goalscorers aswell as Agger "The wonder striker", that side would batter anyone.

The problem i have with 3-5-2 is that we dont really have any spots for Gonzalez Pennant and maybe Kewell as well. Its a system that Rafa will work on but only employ when we really need a goal and are just going to forget about defense. This can have mixed results: 3-3 in CL final or 1-4 vs. Chelsea last year in the Premiership.

I think if Rafa was going to go for this formation we would have seen it in the pres-season games, but i agree with you. This fixes our Gerrard/Alonso/Momo problem, gives a good chance for Garcia and provides spaces for 2 strikers. I just think that at the moment we dont need any more changes in formation atm.

I would simply drop Alonso. He scored a great goal, but he is a waste of space.

please tell me this a wind-up?

if not I'd advocate having your posting rights removed

just kidding mate, but seriosuly how can you spout such drivel?

Alonso should be dropped cos when he first arrived at the club his passing was accurate enough to create problems for the opposition. This season his passing accuracy is poor. His poor passing doesn’t create problems for the opposition but instead he creates a problem for us.

He did score a great goal against the barcodes & a great shot against Bolton.

by **Ciggy** » Thu Oct 05, 2006 9:17 am

craig da Toxteth iron wrote:Alonso should be dropped cos when he first arrived at the club his passing was accurate enough to create problems for the opposition. This season his passing accuracy is poor. His poor passing doesn’t create problems for the opposition but instead he creates a problem for us.

Maybe thats cause other teams have sussed him out now and dont allow him any time on the ball to put in those Hollywood passes.
And secondly with this constant rotation its no wonder his passes are going astray because he doesnt know where his team mate is, or where he should be.

by **Espionage** » Thu Oct 05, 2006 9:25 am

Effes wrote:
Espionage wrote:but is it mad to put him there? I think not.

Well I think yes, as do many reds I talk to so I aint alone on that one.

Take shelter with the masses?

A manager can change very little in a game of football, but Rafa has the right to be happy with the fact that he set up a match-up in which Gerrard got the better of his opponent for the whole game. I think that we will see Gerrard continuing to play there on occasion with the current squad issues.

Are you suggesting that Rafa is mad?

by **66-1112520797** » Thu Oct 05, 2006 9:26 am

Maybe thats cause other teams have sussed him out now and dont allow him any time on the ball put put in those Hollywood passes

Possibly, but Alonso is such an intelligent player of football, he can make time for himself not nessercerily with pace but quick thinking and movement. This gives him the extra second or two to pick out the " Hollywood pass" . See his pass against Newcastle, played to perfection to ( I think Finnan or Gerrard ) when Kuyt scored. Also the pass where he shaped up to shoot but slotted an exquisit ball accross to Gerrard, ( I think against Spurs that was)

On his day Xabi Alonso is an artizan ( ?

) of football.

by **Ciggy** » Thu Oct 05, 2006 9:32 am

Bamaga man wrote:

Maybe thats cause other teams have sussed him out now and dont allow him any time on the ball put put in those Hollywood passes

Possibly, but Alonso is such an intelligent player of football, he can make time for himself not nessercerily with pace but quick thinking and movement. This gives him the extra second or two to pick out the " Hollywood pass" . See his pass against Newcastle, played to perfection to ( I think Finnan or Gerrard ) when Kuyt scored. Also the pass where he shaped up to shoot but slotted an exquisit ball accross to Gerrard, ( I think against Spurs that was)

Yer but mate, Bolton never give him a split second because they know the damage he can do, he doesnt like players kicking away at his heels he isnt the type, he isnt the quickest either.
Everytime a team plays against us from now, they will be ordered to close him down and not let him have anytime on the ball because he is our play maker and pulls all the strings.
We face Blackburn next and if he plays expect the same treatment of that of Bolton and the bitters.
It used to be stop Gerrard playing then Liverpool dont play, now its stop Alonso.

by **Espionage** » Thu Oct 05, 2006 9:40 am

bigmick wrote:
Ciggy wrote:
Espionage wrote:"Surely realised that by now" sounds a little over-the-top when there are been no real evidence suggesting that it was even a poor decesion to put him there in the first place.

He played great against Chelsea, and he was put there for tactical reasons (seemingly in order to expose Boulahrouz). He spends alot of his time cutting into the middle anyway. Maybe he is not as good there as he is on the right but is it mad to put him there? I think not.

Its not over the top atall, its pathetic to play the best central midfielder LFC has ever had on the left side of midfield.
Ok he contained Boulahrouz in the game against Chelsea but what about the game against Bolton

Surely Aurelio could have played there?
But no we got Bellamy who is a forward and Gerrard a central midfielder interchanging.

Its such a waste playing these 2 players out of their normal positions when they dont have any influence on the game, play them in the correct positons or dont play them atall.

I never want to see Gerrard on the left again, and I will be really p.issed off with Rafa if he continues to do so.

Just about agree with every single word of that. I probably won't be quite as p!ssed off with Rafa as Lynds will (I can't quite get fired up like she can) but I'll be pretty annoyed anyhow

Gerrard's skill as a central midfielder is completely irrelevant if the sum of all the parts of the midfield is higher with him being on the left.

This is how I see it:
Gerrard Alonso Sissoko Pennant
9 9 9 7 = 34

Aurilio Alonso Gerrard Pennant
7 9 10 7 = 33
(10 being the value that I place on Gerrard playing in the centre)

This is just sopossed to be a rough idea of the value of a player and what they bring to the team, its pretty unclear but hopefully it assists in communicating my point. Who gives a sh!t if we have the best central midfielder in the world? If the sum of the parts is higher without him playing there, then play him somewhere else. Also for a game like Chelsea you want to have players that have experience against them i guess so that could be another factor that led Rafa to play him there.

by **Espionage** » Thu Oct 05, 2006 9:43 am

Bamaga man wrote:

Maybe thats cause other teams have sussed him out now and dont allow him any time on the ball put put in those Hollywood passes

Possibly, but Alonso is such an intelligent player of football, he can make time for himself not nessercerily with pace but quick thinking and movement. This gives him the extra second or two to pick out the " Hollywood pass" . See his pass against Newcastle, played to perfection to ( I think Finnan or Gerrard ) when Kuyt scored. Also the pass where he shaped up to shoot but slotted an exquisit ball accross to Gerrard, ( I think against Spurs that was)

On his day Xabi Alonso is an artizan ( ? ) of football.

Also the ball to Gonzalez for his goal against Maccabi Haifa was beautiful. Gonzalez had so much time that it didnt even matter the his first touch was poor.......

sorry typo

by **Ciggy** » Thu Oct 05, 2006 9:49 am

Bigmick wrote.
Just about agree with every single word of that. I probably won't be quite as p!ssed off with Rafa as Lynds will (I can't quite get fired up like she can) but I'll be pretty annoyed anyhow

LOL Mick you wont want to hear me if it continues I'll probably get banned from the forum

Espionage wrote
Who gives a sh!t if we have the best central midfielder in the world?

Me I give a sh.it that a born and bred scouser has become the best midfielder in the world, they only come around once a decade, but sadly thats dissappearing.
I am very proud that Gerrards a red, I am very proud he plays for us.
I thought he was a bit of a Tw@t wanting to leave twice but I cannot dwell on that like some people are doing.
We dont have 30 million pound to spend on a player of his quality should he leave.
If he continues to be used like a spare part he wont be around next season I will put my house on it.

God I ballsed that up cant double quote after all these years :angry:

by **66-1112520797** » Thu Oct 05, 2006 9:54 am

Gerrard's skill as a central midfielder is completely irrelevant if the sum of all the parts of the midfield is higher with him being on the left.

This is how I see it:
Gerrard Alonso Sissoko Pennant
9 9 9 7 = 34

Aurilio Alonso Gerrard Pennant
7 9 10 7 = 33
(10 being the value that I place on Gerrard playing in the centre)

This is just sopossed to be a rough idea of the value of a player and what they bring to the team, its pretty unclear but hopefully it assists in communicating my point. Who gives a sh!t if we have the best central midfielder in the world? If the sum of the parts is higher without him playing there, then play him somewhere else. Also for a game like Chelsea you want to have players that have experience against them i guess so that could be another factor that led Rafa to play him there.

I'm sorry mate but doing all your maths on paper and giving players numbers has nothing to do with on field performances thats not irrelevant . :blush:

relevant

by **Sabre** » Thu Oct 05, 2006 10:01 am

Alonso should be dropped cos when he first arrived at the club his passing was accurate enough to create problems for the opposition. This season his passing accuracy is poor. His poor passing doesn’t create problems for the opposition but instead he creates a problem for us.

He did score a great goal against the barcodes & a great shot against Bolton.

So you value Alonso because he had a nice shot and a great goal? is he a :censored:

striker? Does he need to score a goal every 3 matches so that people rate him?

*sigh*

by **craig da Toxteth iron** » Thu Oct 05, 2006 10:55 am

Ciggy wrote:
craig da Toxteth iron wrote:Alonso should be dropped cos when he first arrived at the club his passing was accurate enough to create problems for the opposition. This season his passing accuracy is poor. His poor passing doesn’t create problems for the opposition but instead he creates a problem for us.

Maybe thats cause other teams have sussed him out now and dont allow him any time on the ball to put in those Hollywood passes.
And secondly with this constant rotation its no wonder his passes are going astray because he doesnt know where his team mate is, or where he should be.

Is it the same old question all over again? He should stick to the same team.

by **craig da Toxteth iron** » Thu Oct 05, 2006 11:00 am

Sabre wrote:
Alonso should be dropped cos when he first arrived at the club his passing was accurate enough to create problems for the opposition. This season his passing accuracy is poor. His poor passing doesn’t create problems for the opposition but instead he creates a problem for us.

He did score a great goal against the barcodes & a great shot against Bolton.

So you value Alonso because he had a nice shot and a great goal? is he a striker? Does he need to score a goal every 3 matches so that people rate him?

*sigh*

I’m Using Positives & Negatives. Ciggy just told me about his passing.

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