The tactics blackboard - Rafa's tactics

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Postby Espionage » Mon Oct 02, 2006 2:45 pm

Bad Bob wrote:One reason why Agger will be so important for us in the long run is his ability to complement Xabi by bringing the ball out of defense.  Today against Spurs there were a few moments in the first half where both Keane and Defoe were hovering around Alonso when our CBs had the ball, denying the first pass to our key play-maker.  Cue young Agger who took possession, carried the ball over the halfway line and looked to pick out Kuyt or Gonzales.  On one occasion he even carried the ball down the left touchline, winning a throw down by the corner flag!

When Alonso is covered it is great to have someone who can carry the ball out rather than just hoofing it upfield.  Also, Agger provides a great outlet for Alonso when he's under pressure.  The two are start to develop a very nice understanding and, between them, have the vision and ball-handling skills to play their way out of trouble and move the team forward.  Fantastic to see this sort of development taking shape!   :blues:

I completely agree Bob.  I think that Agger's ability and confidence going forward really complement Alonso's role.  Teams will learn that you cant leave this boy open because he will tear you apart.  I think that one of his curving passes in behiend and beat about 3 players with it straight onto Kuyt's foot.  His goal was stunning and his run creating that corner was very impressive.
I hope to see Agger do this some more because often I see Alonso drop into a center-back role when a fullback is caught too far forward. 
When we attack are in full-attack we are almost playing a 2-1-5-2 and i think that its great that Rafa is implementing a system where players have the freedom to do what they want knowing that other players know how to react to every possibility.  It seems at the moment we are adding new options in each game and Rafa is allowing a huge amount of freedom for on-field player decision making. 

It seems to me that Rafa is creating a system much like the triangle offense made famous used by Tex Winter/Phil Jackson (lol these refereces are so fun to use as people get really fired up when American sports are mentioned) whereby there are a list of solutions to any situation a player is faced with to the point that the manual is huge.

"Critics of the triangle offense say that it is too difficult and time-consuming to learn. While that might be true, when learned, it becomes very natural and everything starts to make sense. Essentially, the main philosophy behind the offense is to pursue the path of least resistance. Every pass, every cut, and every screen has a purpose.....blah blah"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Triangle_offense

I think that this is the situation that we are in now, we are on the road to learning this kind of system.  Players dont call a coach a tactical genius for the run of it.  He must be showing them a different way of looking at football.

I honestly believe that Rafa is a tactical genius, and I think that if we can get into another winning streak similiar to last season we will see our team playing some really attractive football. 
I wasnt alive to watch the way that Liverpool used to attack in the 70s & 80s, but I am confident that Rafa has us on the right track.
Last edited by Espionage on Mon Oct 02, 2006 2:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Espionage » Mon Oct 02, 2006 3:02 pm

Another question for the tactics board.....  Why is it that people complain about Gerrard playing on the left side of midfield?  I thought that the game against Chelsea he played his socks off and was extremely unfortunate not to score (which is beside the point).
My point is:
-Gerrard is technically able to play on the left.
-Tactically he can play an identical role so there should be no problem in him "learning a new position".
-I dont buy the concept that other players (critically Riise/Aurelio) wont understand him as well as Finnan.  Melwood is for training a getting to know each other and with challenging players to look at the game in a different way is in no way harmful.  (Look at Wenger, he constructs himself a team full of intelligent players and it show in the way they play football, and i think that this is what Rafa is doing). 

I know that there are people that argue that he should only be played on the right, I am not really very interested in argueing about that.  I want to hear why people think that its ok to play him on the right and not the left?
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Postby bigmick » Mon Oct 02, 2006 4:39 pm

Espionage wrote: I want to hear why people think that its ok to play him on the right and not the left?

When a player recieves the football he has a couple of options in that he can move to his right with it or to his left. His options multiply when you consider he can pass/shoot/dribble with either his right or his left foot.

Fortunately for defenders however, most players favour one side of the other. "Show him the outside" or "Keep him moving to his left/right" are shouts you will hear at every football ground where the standard is higher than Pub Kickabout.

Now with Gerrard and other top players like him, he offers the classic problem when playing in his natural position (which for me is wide right). If he recieves the ball wide you have a dilemma. Show him the outside and he'll put a killer ball in behind your back four, there's no better player around at doing it. Show him inside and he'll take the invitation, advance and hit it. Let him track inside and pick it up centrally and suddenly your centrral midfielders are landed with a huge problem which is really hard to legislate for.

So what's the difference if he plays out on the left then? Well firstly, you absolutely know for certain that you as the right-back need to show him the outside and push him onto his left foot. No dilemma whatsoever, do not let him come inside with the ball uder any circumstances. You can set up against him different, if he pings in a beautiful cross from out there good luck to him, but do not let him come inside. It's not always possible to achieve this as Gerrard is a fantastic player but it's a lot easier to funnel him into areas you want him to go than it is when he plays on the right.

Secondly, should your full-back advance against him (rare I know for anyone to push Gerrard backwards but it does happen) then you know he will be left having to tackle with his "wrong" foot as he sprints back. No more lung bursting surges and slide tackles with the right-foot which he loves.

Thirdly, unless he tracks inside it makes him a lot harder for a teammate to find with a pass. This is because the ball in behind the full-back utilizing the searing pace of Gerrard to run onto and cross is no longer an option because he won't do it with his left foot. Because of that the right midfielder or right full back can sit in a lot tighter agaisnt him as they aren't going to get embarassed in behind.

To me it's a no-brainer. Rather than talking about what he can't do, let's celebrate what he can do practically better than anybody else in the World, namely play right-hand side of midfield. So what if other players who are right-footed can play wide-left. Either sign them or concentrate on how we can get the most from our best player.
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Postby Espionage » Mon Oct 02, 2006 4:50 pm

First person to give a proper arguement arguement.   A bit of a change from many of "Gerrard is not a left midfielder!!" one line brainless posts in some of the other threads.  I see no reason why he cant play occasionally on the left but I agree with you that he would probably be better on the right.  When i used to play (i played in the back 4), i used to hate players swapping positions as it means that the defense has to change the way they play.  2 Seasons ago Chelsea used to do this to perfection with their wingers changing whenever they wanted to. 

I am not quite sure if this is what Sabre had in mind when he made this thread, but to me it looks like a good spot to put theories about the way that we play without cluttering pre/post-match discussion.  Also it will be interesting how different things turn out to everyone's predictions.
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Postby red37 » Mon Oct 02, 2006 11:17 pm

bigmick wrote:When a player recieves the football he has a couple of options in that he can move to his right with it or to his left. His options multiply when you consider he can pass/shoot/dribble with either his right or his left foot.

Fortunately for defenders however, most players favour one side of the other. "Show him the outside" or "Keep him moving to his left/right" are shouts you will hear at every football ground where the standard is higher than Pub Kickabout.

Now with Gerrard and other top players like him, he offers the classic problem when playing in his natural position (which for me is wide right). If he recieves the ball wide you have a dilemma. Show him the outside and he'll put a killer ball in behind your back four, there's no better player around at doing it. Show him inside and he'll take the invitation, advance and hit it. Let him track inside and pick it up centrally and suddenly your centrral midfielders are landed with a huge problem which is really hard to legislate for.

So what's the difference if he plays out on the left then? Well firstly, you absolutely know for certain that you as the right-back need to show him the outside and push him onto his left foot. No dilemma whatsoever, do not let him come inside with the ball uder any circumstances. You can set up against him different, if he pings in a beautiful cross from out there good luck to him, but do not let him come inside. It's not always possible to achieve this as Gerrard is a fantastic player but it's a lot easier to funnel him into areas you want him to go than it is when he plays on the right.

Secondly, should your full-back advance against him (rare I know for anyone to push Gerrard backwards but it does happen) then you know he will be left having to tackle with his "wrong" foot as he sprints back. No more lung bursting surges and slide tackles with the right-foot which he loves.

Thirdly, unless he tracks inside it makes him a lot harder for a teammate to find with a pass. This is because the ball in behind the full-back utilizing the searing pace of Gerrard to run onto and cross is no longer an option because he won't do it with his left foot. Because of that the right midfielder or right full back can sit in a lot tighter agaisnt him as they aren't going to get embarassed in behind.

To me it's a no-brainer. Rather than talking about what he can't do, let's celebrate what he can do practically better than anybody else in the World, namely play right-hand side of midfield. So what if other players who are right-footed can play wide-left. Either sign them or concentrate on how we can get the most from our best player.

you have managed to put into words that which the rest of us have only been able to begin to offer, over the argument for gerrard to be included in the team, along with alonso and sissoko all together. effectively.

namely, he is a double threat when played there, as opposed to being nullified to an extent by a capable right-back. the left-back however, would find all manner of a hard time with gerrard running at him....which way will he go?  killer pass or swinging bomb? a run on my outside? a devastating one-two? ..either stevie can do with ease. more than well enough and with enough regularity as to cause enough panic, so as to allow xabi and momo control of the game. also, finnan can be unshackled knowing gerrard can also cover his back.. for me, pennant isnt offering half as much as that. you might as well try JP out on the left instead if its come to that stage...

maybe stevie has a sub-conscious problem with himself not feeling as though he is dictating enough of a game stuck outside, where others are doing jobs he otherwise has adapted to do for his own game in the past. but far from it, he is still the catalyst,the heartbeat, even playing right-side with half of his defensive duties catered for, gerrard has the freedom to visualise the attack infront and feed it, plan it and still be involved in the end product..its perfect for him. and god forbid, if he didnt need to do all the work on his own, he has two outstanding warriors alongside him who are on an equal footing in terms of the aspirations of the side. either that or its still an ego thing? but that will eventually dissipate.

gerrard on the right. suits him.

gerrard on the left..patch-up job.

gerrard central?  well, up to 50% of his efficiency to the team can be lost i believe, when the ball isnt in possession. (although that still stands him head above shoulders over most of european footballers IMO) and in a tight,narrow game you'd want him there...but that means sacifices elsewhere as we know.

lets just say, evra/heinze will not be relishing the prospect. and depending on whether left-midfield continues to be an issue, id much rather see him used to the max of his potential.
gerrard isnt the answer out there for me.

(just the other 10 to sort out mick and the jobs yours)  :D
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Postby red37 » Mon Oct 02, 2006 11:38 pm

a superlative piece taken from RAWK. that i think adds to the  quality already observed in this thread....


***********************************************

We were a defensive team. Now we are an attacking team. The transition has not happened suddenly, it has been fermenting since the day Rafa Benitez took over, but this summer there was a “tipping point”, to use the jargon. Rafa went out and bought pace. Pennant, Bellamy, Gonzalez. All three excited us because they possessed the commodity that Liverpool had been lacking for several years – electrifying pace up front and, especially, on the wings. In a 100-metres race Pennant would probably get bronze. That’s how quick the other two are.

Like a lot of us, I guess, I expected this pace to be simply grafted on to what we had already got – particularly our famous defensive solidity – and for the Reds to barnstorm to the top of the league by the end of September. But I forgot a simple truth. Alter one part of the organism and every other part is subtly changed as well. The welcome injection of pace has put different demands on individual players and right now some are struggling to adjust. That adjustment will come, I think, but it won't necessarily come straight away.

The ‘big pitch’

In the late 1960s the coaches at Ajax FC developed the idea that the duty of a team is to make the pitch big when you have the ball, and to make it small when you don’t. Most attractive teams have more or less played to this maxim ever since. 

At the moment we are doing the first bit reasonably well, but not the second. Liverpool’s pitch has been getting ‘bigger’ since 2004. Almost as soon as Rafa took over he deepened it when we had the ball. The defence started dropping off 10 yards and staggering itself which meant we were recycling play much more efficiently than under Houllier, when the back four maintained a straight defensive line even when we had possession. This season things have been stretched in other directions. We’ve already seen how Pennant and Gonzalez have effectively been able to widen the pitch, while Bellamy, despite his tendency to wander offside, is simultaneously lengthening it. In short there’s much more room to play attractive football. And periodically we’ve done it. Against Gala in the first half hour, against Chelsea at the Bridge, at home against Spurs in the second half, at the Reebok for 20 minutes after going two down. Not enough, and in one case too little too late. But even so there have been authentic signs of a formidable attacking team starting to emerge. 

Yet two things are holding us back. The first is that the extra space that’s been opened up in the middle of the pitch hasn’t been properly exploited yet. The second is that when we’ve lost the ball we’ve been less successful in making the pitch small again.

It’s surprising perhaps that we haven’t been able to exploit the extra space in the middle of the park when we’ve been going forward. It was always likely to take some time before our midfielders start pouring into the gaps like Valencia used to do, but I expected a touch more ingenuity than we’ve had so far. RAWKites will have their own preferred reasons why this isn’t happening – the failure to play Luis Garcia ‘in the hole’, the failure to play Fowler in alliance with a quick forward, the use of Gerrard on the right rather than in the centre, the tendency for Pennant to cross too early, the slow start to the season by Alonso, the profligacy of Sissoko when we have possession. All these theories have something to commend them I think. But so does the sheer fact of unfamiliarity. For what it’s worth I would play Garcia behind the centre forward(s) while maintaining our width, but I suspect (and hope) that the solution when it comes will be collective rather than individual. We have some superb attacking talent now, and it is up to all our players to familiarize themselves with the new demands and exploit the new opportunities that will result. In a sense I don’t care who plays so long as we develop an ability, as a team, to play as a unit further up the field and to retain the ball better around the opponent’s penalty box.

As for ‘making the pitch small again’ when we lose possession, well that’s going to be harder if we are committed to playing two strikers and two genuine wide men. Benitez admitted that after the first game and clearly he’s prepared to take a risk. It’s a risk that obviously can’t be mitigated this season by sending on Didi Hamann to set up his toll-booth in front of the back four. His disappearance, together with the use of genuine wingers whose very width makes it harder for them to tuck in and help the full-backs, mean that there’s a hell of a lot more pressure on Xabi and the defence this season. Ultimately, the best way to relieve that pressure is to keep the ball more – to be less open to the big capsize because a player has lost possession with all our forwards committed. At the moment it’s happening too often. Towards the end against Gala it was happening nearly all the time, and we lucky to get away with it.

That first touch

When a coach puts a premium on pace, like Rafa has done, it can spoil everything if individual players can’t match the speed of their colleagues. I don’t mean foot-speed. Not all great footballers have that. I mean the ability to instantly control the ball and the ability to think ahead before you receive the ball. The two are closely related. Indeed, in the sense that there’s no such thing as a good first touch if the player hasn’t already thought about what he wants to do with the second one, they are identical.

Some of our men have got a wonderful first touch. Alonso, Crouch, and Kuyt are naturals. Garcia's and Gerrard's are more erratic, but mainly because they are more ambitious. Others struggle. Especially in defence do they struggle. “So what?” some might say. “What does it matter if Riise takes two attempts to really get the ball where he wants it? He’s a defender and he’s got more time to deal with the situation than a forward like Crouch or Kuyt who has to control the ball and move it along quickly with Terry or Toure snapping at his heels”. Well, yes, perhaps that would be good enough for most English teams. Bolton, for example, can afford to have guys at the back who need that extra bit of time to control the ball. But only because Allardyce makes so few offensive demands of his back four. At Liverpool – this season even more than last – it’s certainly not good enough. That extra second needed to control the ball takes an extra second off what Gonzalez can offer you when he gets it.

John Arne Riise seems to me the biggest offender here. All too often he doesn’t seem to know what his options are until he’s got the ball sufficiently under control to look up. By then, of course, his options have narrowed. But Carra could do better as well. His distribution has improved no end under Rafa, but he still seems at a loss when offered a bit of space to run into. That strange hop he sometimes does when he’s carrying the ball forward is symptomatic of this I think. It’s almost a physical distillation of his indecision. With each hop he slows down, and once Carra has slowed down enough to stop he finds it impossible to start again. All momentum is lost. It’s more noticeable now because of Daniel Agger’s contribution to the team. Here is a player who usually knows what his options are before he gets the ball, and whose technique is so sound that his first touch is often good enough to completely change the picture in front of him. (Pepe Reina is another defensive player who has the ability to think aggressively ahead and buy his forwards that extra second, regardless of the fact that he was so abysmally punished on Saturday for this very skill). Carra may never acquire this level of instinctive understanding but with his proven ability to learn and develop he has the capacity, surely, to contribute more to the pace of Liverpool’s play than he has done so far this season. 

The good news for Liverpool is that we are still not too far off the top despite our stuttering start. The better news is that we have acquired players over the summer who are adventurous and technically excellent  (I include Aurelio in that too). The expected news, I hope, is that things will soon click. When they do we should be quite a proposition.

© yorkykopite 2006

***********************************************
dont know about many of you lot, but i feel a bit more optimistic after digesting the meat of that..lets hope the theory surfaces into reality.  although time, as we all know, isnt one to hang about until you have enough points on the board to call the process successful....we'll see.
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Postby Espionage » Tue Oct 03, 2006 2:13 am

red37 wrote:In the late 1960s the coaches at Ajax FC developed the idea that the duty of a team is to make the pitch big when you have the ball, and to make it small when you don’t. Most attractive teams have more or less played to this maxim ever since. 

At the moment we are doing the first bit reasonably well, but not the second. Liverpool’s pitch has been getting ‘bigger’ since 2004. Almost as soon as Rafa took over he deepened it when we had the ball. The defence started dropping off 10 yards and staggering itself which meant we were recycling play much more efficiently than under Houllier, when the back four maintained a straight defensive line even when we had possession. This season things have been stretched in other directions. We’ve already seen how Pennant and Gonzalez have effectively been able to widen the pitch, while Bellamy, despite his tendency to wander offside, is simultaneously lengthening it. In short there’s much more room to play attractive football. And periodically we’ve done it. Against Gala in the first half hour, against Chelsea at the Bridge, at home against Spurs in the second half, at the Reebok for 20 minutes after going two down. Not enough, and in one case too little too late. But even so there have been authentic signs of a formidable attacking team starting to emerge. 

Yet two things are holding us back. The first is that the extra space that’s been opened up in the middle of the pitch hasn’t been properly exploited yet. The second is that when we’ve lost the ball we’ve been less successful in making the pitch small again.

It’s surprising perhaps that we haven’t been able to exploit the extra space in the middle of the park when we’ve been going forward. It was always likely to take some time before our midfielders start pouring into the gaps like Valencia used to do, but I expected a touch more ingenuity than we’ve had so far. RAWKites will have their own preferred reasons why this isn’t happening – the failure to play Luis Garcia ‘in the hole’, the failure to play Fowler in alliance with a quick forward, the use of Gerrard on the right rather than in the centre, the tendency for Pennant to cross too early, the slow start to the season by Alonso, the profligacy of Sissoko when we have possession. All these theories have something to commend them I think. But so does the sheer fact of unfamiliarity. For what it’s worth I would play Garcia behind the centre forward(s) while maintaining our width, but I suspect (and hope) that the solution when it comes will be collective rather than individual. We have some superb attacking talent now, and it is up to all our players to familiarize themselves with the new demands and exploit the new opportunities that will result. In a sense I don’t care who plays so long as we develop an ability, as a team, to play as a unit further up the field and to retain the ball better around the opponent’s penalty box.

As for ‘making the pitch small again’ when we lose possession, well that’s going to be harder if we are committed to playing two strikers and two genuine wide men. Benitez admitted that after the first game and clearly he’s prepared to take a risk. It’s a risk that obviously can’t be mitigated this season by sending on Didi Hamann to set up his toll-booth in front of the back four. His disappearance, together with the use of genuine wingers whose very width makes it harder for them to tuck in and help the full-backs, mean that there’s a hell of a lot more pressure on Xabi and the defence this season. Ultimately, the best way to relieve that pressure is to keep the ball more – to be less open to the big capsize because a player has lost possession with all our forwards committed. At the moment it’s happening too often. Towards the end against Gala it was happening nearly all the time, and we lucky to get away with it.

Great analysis IMO.  MY knowledge of football tactics is quite limited in seom areas and I think that this guy just explained how to play attractive football.  Now that I think about it, the reason why I thought that we were starting to play such attractive football is mainly becasue of the fact that we have more space.  We are changing our entire movement philosophy.

When tactical rules are changed and the old rules encouraged to be broken we will see a different Liverpool.
"Critics of the triangle offense say that it is too difficult and time-consuming to learn. While that might be true, when learned, it becomes very natural and everything starts to make sense. Essentially, the main philosophy behind the offense is to pursue the path of least resistance"  (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Triangle_offense)

Myself and many other people said that Rafa would take a few years to get his personel and tactics organised to the level that he was satisfied.  I expect to start seeing results of these changes some time in this year, we are going to start playing the attractive football that the article above is talking about.
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Postby account deleted by request » Tue Oct 03, 2006 2:29 am

A great read, thanks for posting it RED37.
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