Liverpool FC Forum

by **craig da Toxteth iron** » Wed Oct 04, 2006 12:14 pm

Espionage wrote:
Lando_Griffin wrote:
stmichael wrote:I personally think that we should play Garcia more while chances are at a bit of a premium as he makes things happen.

Bingo.

The lad has tremendous ability to unlock defences, but he doesn't seem to be playing as well this year, which is probably why we haven't seen as much of him.

My guess is Spain's WC campaign took a fair bit out of him emotionally. Once he gets his rythm back, he'll feature more and more, IMHO.

The trouble with playing Luis in his best position (behind the striker(s)), ofcourse, is we have to drop someone and change the system.
I'd go for this team away from home, which provides width, grit and defensive solidity, with attacking flair to rival anything in Europe:

Reina

JC Sami Agger

Xabi Sissoko
Gerrard Riise
Garcia

Crouch Kuyt.

I prefer 3-5-2 as a formation, as it brings out the best in Riise, as well as allowing a very attacking side to remain solid at the back.
Finnan hasn't been playing well recently, so this formation would probably resolve the uncertainty among thr back line aswell.

Whatever Rafa chooses to do, though, will obviously be with the benefit of seeing how the players react to different systems, etc.

But I have to say that with 6 regular goalscorers aswell as Agger "The wonder striker", that side would batter anyone.

The problem i have with 3-5-2 is that we dont really have any spots for Gonzalez Pennant and maybe Kewell as well. Its a system that Rafa will work on but only employ when we really need a goal and are just going to forget about defense. This can have mixed results: 3-3 in CL final or 1-4 vs. Chelsea last year in the Premiership.

I think if Rafa was going to go for this formation we would have seen it in the pres-season games, but i agree with you. This fixes our Gerrard/Alonso/Momo problem, gives a good chance for Garcia and provides spaces for 2 strikers. I just think that at the moment we dont need any more changes in formation atm.

I would simply drop Alonso. He scored a great goal, but he is a waste of space.

by **whylongball?** » Wed Oct 04, 2006 12:46 pm

This is exactly my thought stmichael and was said to a certain extent in one of my post the other day. Too predictable the style of football. And there isnt anyone who can create space in the middle by surging through the middle. Actually S.G can do it but he is deployed in bad positions. Just play either S.G or Alonso/Sisoko in the middle,play proper wingers to have width and am very sure the problem will be solved.

by **stmichael** » Wed Oct 04, 2006 1:38 pm

whylongball? wrote:This is exactly my thought stmichael and was said to a certain extent in one of my post the other day. Too predictable the style of football. And there isnt anyone who can create space in the middle by surging through the middle. Actually S.G can do it but he is deployed in bad positions. Just play either S.G or Alonso/Sisoko in the middle,play proper wingers to have width and am very sure the problem will be solved.

I agree that unfortunately for us the whole when broken down leads you to the fact that the system is made up of too many players who lack an edge in front of goal. Alonso & Momo have some great talents but combined they may give you 3 - 5 league goals this year...maybe even less. Last years first choice left winger Kewell, once fit he will be first choice again me thinks, has probably scored less than 5 league goals over the past 2 seasons for us. Pennant was never a great goal scorer so you can hardly blame him for keeping that par going now at Liverpool. Surely he was here to provide the assists and so far his time on the pitch has been inconsistent, too much so, considering the type of ball he can deliver into the danger areas.

I could go but sure we all know our midfield scoring issues..... the only bright sparks are Gerrard & Garcia.

by **account deleted by request** » Wed Oct 04, 2006 2:25 pm

When Liverpool sold Tony Hateley after he scored about 26 goals in one season, Shankly said the reason was ,Callaghan and Thompson used to score about 7 goals apiece from the wings, but that season they scored only 2 between them because they were just crossing the ball for Hateley. He said it was better to have all his forwards scoring rather than depending on one or two individuals.

If you look at Liverpools midfield there is only Gerrard likely to get into double figures, and if you look at the strikers theres only Kuyt likely to get 20 (if he plays often enough). Crouch/Bellamy and Fowler will add about 30 goals between them, depending on who gets picked.

Sissoko, Alonso, Pennant and Aurelio will be lucky to get 10 between them from open play this season. This puts a huge burden on Gerrard to score, and when he doesnt (he hasnt yet) we struggle for goals.

In defence we have a similar lack of goal threat, Finnan, Carragher, Hyypia, will be lucky if they get 5 between them with Riise perhaps getting 5 himself.

Then we have Gonzales ,Kewell who may get a further 5 each(again depending on appearances)

That leaves Garcia who will hopefully get about 10 goals.

Thats only about 95 goals in all competitions which means about 60 league goals at best ,and less goals than we scored last season overall.

We cant play Pennant,Alonso and Sissoko together if we are to improve our scoring, as they offer little goal threat (apart from the odd 65yd wonder goal). Gerrard,Garcia, Kewell and Riise and maybe Gonzales offer more goal threat and at least 2 of these 5 should play in midfield every match.

by **Espionage** » Wed Oct 04, 2006 2:29 pm

craig da Toxteth iron wrote:
Espionage wrote:
Lando_Griffin wrote:
stmichael wrote:I personally think that we should play Garcia more while chances are at a bit of a premium as he makes things happen.

Bingo.

The lad has tremendous ability to unlock defences, but he doesn't seem to be playing as well this year, which is probably why we haven't seen as much of him.

My guess is Spain's WC campaign took a fair bit out of him emotionally. Once he gets his rythm back, he'll feature more and more, IMHO.

The trouble with playing Luis in his best position (behind the striker(s)), ofcourse, is we have to drop someone and change the system.
I'd go for this team away from home, which provides width, grit and defensive solidity, with attacking flair to rival anything in Europe:

Reina

JC Sami Agger

Xabi Sissoko
Gerrard Riise
Garcia

Crouch Kuyt.

I prefer 3-5-2 as a formation, as it brings out the best in Riise, as well as allowing a very attacking side to remain solid at the back.
Finnan hasn't been playing well recently, so this formation would probably resolve the uncertainty among thr back line aswell.

Whatever Rafa chooses to do, though, will obviously be with the benefit of seeing how the players react to different systems, etc.

But I have to say that with 6 regular goalscorers aswell as Agger "The wonder striker", that side would batter anyone.

The problem i have with 3-5-2 is that we dont really have any spots for Gonzalez Pennant and maybe Kewell as well. Its a system that Rafa will work on but only employ when we really need a goal and are just going to forget about defense. This can have mixed results: 3-3 in CL final or 1-4 vs. Chelsea last year in the Premiership.

I think if Rafa was going to go for this formation we would have seen it in the pres-season games, but i agree with you. This fixes our Gerrard/Alonso/Momo problem, gives a good chance for Garcia and provides spaces for 2 strikers. I just think that at the moment we dont need any more changes in formation atm.

I would simply drop Alonso. He scored a great goal, but he is a waste of space.

by **andypool2285** » Wed Oct 04, 2006 4:36 pm

love this form ? but who do we play in the middle here are the opinions u play momo/ Steve g momo who will break up everything run the midfield perfect
then with Steve g do i say more do we play Steve g/ xabi maybe the same as Steve g good pasting and great reading of the game gr8 ball winner but Steve g got that bit more cos rafa made xabi that bit more de fence and steve g can stil do his magic. Then xabi and momo to me xabi offer the same ( in a away ) as momo you don't c any of then bombing it in the box but without steve no one going to get hold of the game and get us that goal hope people can see were im coming from cos it wreaking my head

by **aCe'** » Wed Oct 04, 2006 4:54 pm

andypool2285 wrote:love this form ? but who do we play in the middle here are the opinions u play momo/ Steve g momo who will break up everything run the midfield perfect
then with Steve g do i say more do we play Steve g/ xabi maybe the same as Steve g good pasting and great reading of the game gr8 ball winner but Steve g got that bit more cos rafa made xabi that bit more de fence and steve g can stil do his magic. Then xabi and momo to me xabi offer the same ( in a away ) as momo you don't c any of then bombing it in the box but without steve no one going to get hold of the game and get us that goal hope people can see were im coming from cos it wreaking my head

yep....we seem so limited at the moment.....we really need Gerrard in central midfield....
Gerrard is a fcking waste in the left wing position....WTF is Rafa thinkin....playing one of the best players in the world out of his position ! A position we seeem to be struggling at !

by **LFC #1** » Wed Oct 04, 2006 5:11 pm

craig da Toxteth iron wrote:
Espionage wrote:
Lando_Griffin wrote:
stmichael wrote:I personally think that we should play Garcia more while chances are at a bit of a premium as he makes things happen.

Bingo.

The lad has tremendous ability to unlock defences, but he doesn't seem to be playing as well this year, which is probably why we haven't seen as much of him.

My guess is Spain's WC campaign took a fair bit out of him emotionally. Once he gets his rythm back, he'll feature more and more, IMHO.

The trouble with playing Luis in his best position (behind the striker(s)), ofcourse, is we have to drop someone and change the system.
I'd go for this team away from home, which provides width, grit and defensive solidity, with attacking flair to rival anything in Europe:

Reina

JC Sami Agger

Xabi Sissoko
Gerrard Riise
Garcia

Crouch Kuyt.

I prefer 3-5-2 as a formation, as it brings out the best in Riise, as well as allowing a very attacking side to remain solid at the back.
Finnan hasn't been playing well recently, so this formation would probably resolve the uncertainty among thr back line aswell.

Whatever Rafa chooses to do, though, will obviously be with the benefit of seeing how the players react to different systems, etc.

But I have to say that with 6 regular goalscorers aswell as Agger "The wonder striker", that side would batter anyone.

The problem i have with 3-5-2 is that we dont really have any spots for Gonzalez Pennant and maybe Kewell as well. Its a system that Rafa will work on but only employ when we really need a goal and are just going to forget about defense. This can have mixed results: 3-3 in CL final or 1-4 vs. Chelsea last year in the Premiership.

I think if Rafa was going to go for this formation we would have seen it in the pres-season games, but i agree with you. This fixes our Gerrard/Alonso/Momo problem, gives a good chance for Garcia and provides spaces for 2 strikers. I just think that at the moment we dont need any more changes in formation atm.

I would simply drop Alonso. He scored a great goal, but he is a waste of space.

please tell me this a wind-up?

if not I'd advocate having your posting rights removed

just kidding mate, but seriosuly how can you spout such drivel?

by **whylongball?** » Wed Oct 04, 2006 9:10 pm

sorry but why not? if he doesnt play well as in covering for the back four and distributing the ball properly i dont see why you should not drop Alonso? Personally, its about the balance..Having Alonson and Sisoko in the team is very defensive, offering little movement. My 1st choice for central midfield would be SG and Alonso. Sisoko would be for physical game/rotation or sub.

by **Scottbot** » Wed Oct 04, 2006 11:07 pm

stmichael wrote:On the LM position, Garcia must never play there unless it is at home against so called "lesser opposition" when both he and Gerrard can cause havoc drifting in from wide positions. Personally, I'd be inclined to use Riise more there, especially away from home, Gonzalez for home games.

Agree on Riise for the left-midfield role. He did a decent job there (when asked) last season and provides solid cover for Aurellio (who needs it) or Warnock at left-back. I haven't replied in the 'are we missing Kewell?' thread but agree that we have missed him so far this season. He didn't provide the greatest volume of crosses last season but is a good passer/header of the ball and is also a VERY intelligent footballer. Still, he's not fit so it's Riise for me untill then.

looking at Pennant and Gonzalez I also get the impression that the rest of the team simply aren't used to playing with wingers. It's been years since a Liverpool team has stepped out with two 'out an out' wide-men and it seems to me that Rafa is struggling to get the balance between attack and defence quite right. I'd like to see the team get back to being solid which means no Pennant, no Gonzo and unless it's through the middle, no Garicia either. Upfront it's difficult, Kuyt has made a very promising start and looks the real deal. Crouch is obvioulsy the man in form but i must admit i'm not a massive fan of those two playing together. It's early doors but I'm not sure their styles compliment eachother so well because they both like to do the same job. Bellamy needs a goal (as does the Captain) but i think he still looks a good buy and i can see why Rafa has persisted with the Kuyt-Brllamy partnership. I just wish he would show a similar faith and persistance with the team in general.

Mick is right when he says the fixture list has been an absolute :censored:

to us but there's only 6 points in it (somehow) and we have got away with losing 3 of the toughest fixtures. I gotta ticket for Blackburn so hopefully a big performance will get the boys back on track.

by **Lando_Griffin** » Thu Oct 05, 2006 1:06 am

Drop Alonso?

You thick c*nts. :no

by **account deleted by request** » Thu Oct 05, 2006 1:22 am

Drop Alonso and bring back Diao in his place

by **Lando_Griffin** » Thu Oct 05, 2006 1:58 am

s@int wrote:Drop Alonso and bring back Diao in his place

Would suprise me if some dozy tw*ts said that.

It really seems that some people - THICK people, think that unless a player socres goals and gets their name into headlines, they should be dropped.

Alonso - "He scored a great goal, but other than that is a waste of space".

I rest my f*cking case. :no

by **Effes** » Thu Oct 05, 2006 4:11 am

It should be quite easy what to do with the midfield..

Play Alonso, Sissoko with Gerrard on the right - this worked great last season.
Then Gonzalez/Riise (might be best at left back) /Aurelio left midfield.

Playing one of the best midfielders in the world on the left is mad and surely Rafa has realised that by now?

Kuyt/Bellamy/Crouch can be rotated up front depending on form - for me Crouch and Kuyt are showing the best form.

by **Espionage** » Thu Oct 05, 2006 5:36 am

Effes wrote:Playing one of the best midfielders in the world on the left is mad and surely Rafa has realised that by now?

I think that Rafa understood the limitations of Gerrard's play while on the wing before he but him there. "Surely realised that by now" sounds a little over-the-top when there are been no real evidence suggesting that it was even a poor decesion to put him there in the first place.

He played great against Chelsea, and he was put there for tactical reasons (seemingly in order to expose Boulahrouz). He spends alot of his time cutting into the middle anyway. Maybe he is not as good there as he is on the right but is it mad to put him there? I think not.

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