Liverpool FC Forum

by **stmichael** » Tue Oct 03, 2006 1:53 pm

The talk over the last few days after the Bolton game has got me thinking. So far we havent kept a clean sheet away from home in the premiership. We've also only scored one goal, which was a penalty.

For me our problem is exactly the same as last season. We are unable to break down a defence and I don't think its an issue of individuals or rotation - Our attacking play is too rigid, nervous and predictable. Infact it reminds me of England during the World Cup.

Our attacking options seem to be

1: Shoot from long range.

2: Engineer the move into an oppotunity to cross the ball in from the top edge of the area for someone's head....... and then try to get on the resulting second ball.

3: Play the ball along the floor behind the full backs for the winger to get on the end of and hit it across or maybe the winger just tries to beat the full back to do the same.

4: Try to release a striker (Bellamy) on a quick counter.

And that's it. Surely there has to be more options going forward or am I just getting old ? Is that infact all there is to football ? Do Arsenal, Chelsea and the scum do the same ? Last year we scored 57 while Chelsea got 72, the scum 72 and Arsenal 68

If we were scoring 2 or 3 a game, the frailties of our defence would not seem so important. Are we too focused on our defending ? Are we just not very good at attacking ? Is it actually that our individuals aren't as good as other teams or do we have a fundamental flaw in our attacking play?

We also never, ever, ever score from corners. We've got the tallest team in the league but the delivery is often dreadful. I've lost count of the number of times Gerrard has hit the first man or Alonso has overhit it. And don't even get me started on these short corner routines.

Don't get me wrong, some of the football we produced once we got going last season was a joy to watch - think Gerrard's goal against Newcastle - and was very much 'pass and move'. We have one, admittedly major problem - we are too slow to get out of the blocks at the beginning of a season. We look jaded and therefore one dimensional. But the style of football Rafa had us playing by Christmas last year, with Agger, Bellamy and Kuyt added, will be exceptional come time.

Of course it doesn't help that our most creative midfielder hasn't been playing anywhere near his best so far which will undoubtedly impact on the number of chances we create. Secondly we are accommodating a number of new attacking players, of which only Kuyt has really fallen straight into line. Bellamy works terrifically hard, however his runs are often mistimed or the pass misjudged due to a lack of understanding. Gonzalez has looked good in patches but has played relatively few times and Gerrard, who we can rely upon has suffered from being played in a number of positions including the left, which doesnt suit him properly. Also with Alonso not being up to scratch, it has often left Stevie pushing inside to generate things leaving nothing out wide for him to use.

I think it is a case of things settling down, plus a little more luck, plus some easier fixtures away from home (Chelsea, Everton, and Bolton are no pushovers even though we'd expect to win 2 of them) and it will start to look good.

I personally think that we should play Garcia more while chances are at a bit of a premium as he makes things happen.

Thoughts?

by **5 stars** » Tue Oct 03, 2006 2:03 pm

stmichael wrote:I personally think that we should play Garcia more while chances are at a bit of a premium as he makes things happen.

Thoughts?

That is what Rafa had in mind, when he brought Garcia from Barca. You could see in the Tottenham game, when Garcia provided to final ball for Kuyt to get the second goal, that Garcia could thrive playing just of Kuyt or Crouch. It would suit the Alonso and Sissoko partnership perfectly, giving us a defensive platform to work from. We could play Gerrard out on the right, in a more advanced position and Gonzales on the left. We could use Crouch or Kuyt upfront, depending on the opposition.

by **stanleytmanley** » Tue Oct 03, 2006 2:10 pm

I've been pondering this for a long time now, I'm sure its not a question of the players not being up to it. The Cisse/Morientes debates raged all last season (and lets not start that again) but they scored a lot of goals before they came to us. Our current crop are IMO high quality.
If you watched our games in isolation you could be forgiven for blaming bad luck but its been happening for too long for that to be the case.
Yes Rafa has sorted our defence (give or take a few recent blips) but we rarely look "fluid" when we attack and clear cut chances are at a premium.

I think that it is the next part of Rafa's masterplan and we need to be patient - as frustrating as it is firing blanks against teams like Bolton. Bellamy, Kuyt, Pennant, Gonzo are all new to the squad and hopefully in time the goals will flow. It may be next season though

by **Graeme Noble** » Tue Oct 03, 2006 2:31 pm

I personally think that rotation is :censored:

. We need to pick our best 11 more than 75% of the time.

Also, I think Steven Gerrrard should be played in central midfield.

by **account deleted by request** » Tue Oct 03, 2006 2:47 pm

great post again StMichael. I think we are predictable in our play, dont get enough people in the box,Alonso, Sissoko, Pennant just never go there, and we seem too happy smashing shots in from outside the area. There also seems to be a brittleness about our play that wasnt there last season. We beat Spurs 3 - 0 but I felt that if Spurs had scored first there was no way we would have scored.

Away from home we havent scored the first goal in any game, which is hardly surprising when we have only scored one, and that was a dubious penalty.

I have always though of Garcia as a player to play in home games, but not often away because of his defensive shortcomings and his tendancy to give the ball away too often. If we revert to a 4-5-1 however I think he could play away games breaking from midfield or in a 4-4-1-1 formation.

by **redmikey** » Tue Oct 03, 2006 3:33 pm

some of the attacking play that we had this year has been top draw imo

gala at home was some of the best football i've seen us play in a long while

we have hit the post 7 time already this season which just shows the difference between sucess and failure at this level, good post st mike but i think we aren't far from clicking all the pieces together soon

as for people who just say rotation is sh!t well you weren't moaning last year, no last year you were moaning about strikers
and the year before that you were moaning about carra
and the year before that it was all GH fault
and on and on just feck off and support your local pub team where you can blame the wheather and a dodgy pint and where i don't have to listen to your ssn opinion

by **stmichael** » Tue Oct 03, 2006 3:35 pm

redmikey wrote:as for people who just say rotation is sh!t well you weren't moaning last year

rotation is the new zonal marking. fact.

by **redmikey** » Tue Oct 03, 2006 3:40 pm

it is just a bandwagon for the glory hunters to jump on .. they make me more angry than bitter fans as they should know better but no they just spout sh1t all day

by **andypool2285** » Tue Oct 03, 2006 3:48 pm

g8 post st michael i would like to add that i dont think our winger r trying to beating there man is all go back and start again but come every one in the world know 2 keep point 1.you ask any full back the worst think is when a player runs at your someone with speed ie Gonzalez,Pennant

by **club_Levis** » Tue Oct 03, 2006 3:52 pm

I agree we have been lacking in most games that kind of fluid, fast passing kind of game that could unlock stubborn sides like Bolton.The creativity we have in the middle of the park is normally limited to long passes making it very easy for shrewd managers to read our game.It is the middlefield that worries me at the moment in terms of been offensive.Ps bad loss over the weekend..it really hurts

by **account deleted by request** » Tue Oct 03, 2006 3:55 pm

I dont agree with the rotation argument at all, but many good and loyal supporters/posters have voiced there concerns. I dont think they are right but it is still a valid point for discussion.

by **aCe'** » Tue Oct 03, 2006 4:14 pm

Simple... Xabi and Sissoko, with gerrard on the left wing.... doesnt work ! Might work when we play fulham at home, but is not a good formation to be playing week in week out. Pennant is a good player... Gonzales is a good player... Gerrard is a great one. Its really simple when you think about it... maybe in real life it aint all that simple....
Sissoko is a liability for our attacking, such an asset when we r defending.
Start Gerrard in central midfield, and all of a sudden, the topic changes to 'Our Devensive Game in Gerneral'... But it doesnt have to be that way... we all know that Gerrard has wat it takes to come back...defend wen he has to.... Xabi stays behind anyways to provide cover for our centerbacks.... all it takes is just a few directions from Rafa for the 4 back men on how to cover wen we are hit on the break....and we'r good to go...
This might not work against the stonger teams.....maybe not away against Bolton or Everton .... Start Sissoko and Xabi... Along with Gonzales and Gerrard... And u know u got ur back covered while still having options wen u go forward.... but the thing is.... we then need someone to come from deep and open up the opposition defenses.... Why not play Garcia.... i mean, last season we got to realize that we can play 4-5-1 and still look decent when going forward....why not try that again....now that we have a great striker in Kuyt and a good winger in Gonzales.... Would work...atleast give it a shot !
Bellamy is another thing that seems to be limiting our attacking options.... He just doesnt seem to know what to do with the ball when he gets it..... he is clueless ! With Crouch....its a little different.....like him or not.... he is a player with an impact ! he gets in there....goes for the shot...goes for the header....scores ! With bellamy it just doesnt go like that.....Hasnt been so far to say the least.... he needs a timeout.... Another option would be playing Gerrard in a central role along with Sissoko and Alonso with Garcia and Pennant/Gonzales playing in the other wing.... Frm wat i'v seen of garcia ... him and gerrard seem to have a good understanding..... switching positions and opening up play.... the kind of options wee seem to be looking for atm.

by **Redman in wales** » Tue Oct 03, 2006 4:36 pm

stmichael wrote:
redmikey wrote:as for people who just say rotation is sh!t well you weren't moaning last year

rotation is the new zonal marking. fact.

no we werent moaning last year, but we werent rotating the defence every single game last year. I dont think rotation is a bad thing, but as i stated in the topic i started a couple of days ago it was the rotation in defence I was objecting to - having a different back 4 every single game - that was kept fairly constant last yr : finnan - hyypia - Carra - Riise -

by **Espionage** » Tue Oct 03, 2006 4:52 pm

aCe' wrote:Simple... Xabi and Sissoko, with gerrard on the left wing.... doesnt work ! Might work when we play fulham at home, but is not a good formation to be playing week in week out. Pennant is a good player... Gonzales is a good player... Gerrard is a great one. Its really simple when you think about it... maybe in real life it aint all that simple....
Sissoko is a liability for our attacking, such an asset when we r defending.
Start Gerrard in central midfield, and all of a sudden, the topic changes to 'Our Devensive Game in Gerneral'... But it doesnt have to be that way... we all know that Gerrard has wat it takes to come back...defend wen he has to.... Xabi stays behind anyways to provide cover for our centerbacks.... all it takes is just a few directions from Rafa for the 4 back men on how to cover wen we are hit on the break....and we'r good to go...
This might not work against the stonger teams.....maybe not away against Bolton or Everton .... Start Sissoko and Xabi... Along with Gonzales and Gerrard... And u know u got ur back covered while still having options wen u go forward.... but the thing is.... we then need someone to come from deep and open up the opposition defenses.... Why not play Garcia.... i mean, last season we got to realize that we can play 4-5-1 and still look decent when going forward....why not try that again....now that we have a great striker in Kuyt and a good winger in Gonzales.... Would work...atleast give it a shot !
Bellamy is another thing that seems to be limiting our attacking options.... He just doesnt seem to know what to do with the ball when he gets it..... he is clueless ! With Crouch....its a little different.....like him or not.... he is a player with an impact ! he gets in there....goes for the shot...goes for the header....scores ! With bellamy it just doesnt go like that.....Hasnt been so far to say the least.... he needs a timeout.... Another option would be playing Gerrard in a central role along with Sissoko and Alonso with Garcia and Pennant/Gonzales playing in the other wing.... Frm wat i'v seen of garcia ... him and gerrard seem to have a good understanding..... switching positions and opening up play.... the kind of options wee seem to be looking for atm.

I disagree alot that you have written.....

1) Gerrard on the left wing worked wonders against Chelsea @ the bridge (even before Ballack was sent off). I dont think that he is as good on the left, but he is pretty damn close. He is technically able to there and would have spent all of last season there if Kewell was a right winger instead of a left.
2) Sissoko is not a liability for our attack as he stops the ball crossing half way with the pressure that he provides. He doesnt lose posession very often and does the simple things well in attack.
3) I think that when we start Gerrard in central midfield now, all of a sudden the topic changes to "Our Midfield Game in General"
4) Bellamy is not clueless, he has not put the ball in the back of the net but to be honest he has not had much ball played to him the way that he likes it. I think that it appears like he doesnt know what to do because he gets it in situations where he doesnt want it. I think that Bellamy is still getting used to Liverpool and Liverpool are still getting used to Bellamy.

by **puroresu** » Tue Oct 03, 2006 5:21 pm

I dont think we pass it quick enough. I agree that at times we dont look fluid at all and seem to make it easy for opposing sides to stop us playing. I wouldnt like to compare us to Arsenal. They are the best side in the country when it comes to attacking football. They move the ball so well and quickly, players interchanging positions. Its top quality stuff.

Liverpool FC Forum

Our attacking play in general - Individuals, tactics, rotation or luck?

Who is online